1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

Can't wait to see what this vile religion does when they are in control of a city and a Christian council of the UK appears

Oh please there's no need for Islamophobia nor transphobia 

We must learn the cultural enrichment that difference religions and traditions brings in this ever changing world.

 

And we must embrace change , I was a little concerned at the Muslims in Britain buying Christian churches and bulldozing the graves but change is inevitable and J fully support moving on especially if graves are over 100 years old 

5 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

Oh that's absolutely shocking thing to say ...please 

I can't fathom the "hate" you have in your heart 

I love meeting muslim men and always kiss them.on all three cheeks ,maybe you should learn to accept the world is changing 

Before being posted to East Asia I lived and worked, from the late 1960s to the mid 1980s, in northern Nigeria, Abu Dhabi, Qatar and Saudi Arabia. I speak Arabic, and during my time in the foregoing countries I became aware of a central theme, not openly spoken of these days, of islamic teaching, namely that the taking of an infidel's life (eg a Christian or a Jew) will be rewarded with a place in heaven. I suspect that, while you are enjoying kissing Muslim men, you have no idea of the harsh realities of Islamisation that the UK, and several other countries in western Europe, are facing today. Naivety is the word that comes to mind.

1 minute ago, georgegeorgia said:

Oh please there's no need for Islamophobia nor transphobia 

We must learn the cultural enrichment that difference religions ,traditions brings 

And we must embrace change , I was a little concerned at the Muslims in Britain buying Christian churches and bulldozing the graves but change is inevitable 

 

Yes, lets not be too bothered about forced hijab wearing, homosexuality made illegal, sharia punishments, fmg, cousin marriages, the rape of unbelievers children and hate preached from mosques, its all part of the enrichment of diversity that Islam brings. 😊

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

 

I don't think that any modern Christian missionaries are attempting to change any national "fabrics" but they might expect to convert a limited amount of individuals.

Where they have succeeded, among the Inuits and some tribes in remote places in Indonesia and South America, it resulted in loss of identification, alcoholism, prostitution and death due to illnesses unknown to them, these zealots ought to be prosecuted.

At the same time Muslims are demanding that saying Muslims regard themselves as citizens of the Muslim Ummah first, and Britian second (if at all?) be classed as Islamophobia.

6 minutes ago, mokwit said:

At the same time Muslims are demanding that saying Muslims regard themselves as citizens of the Muslim Ummah first, and Britian second (if at all?) be classed as Islamophobia.

 

Why shouldn't that be classed as Islamophobia?  

3 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

 

Why shouldn't that be classed as Islamophobia?  

So you are saying we can't speak the truth about Muslims/Islam? How does that square with Democracy and free speech.

6 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

 

I love meeting muslim men and always kiss them.on all three cheeks ,maybe you should learn to accept the world is changing 

 

And they love the W on your cheeks.  

 

33 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Where they have succeeded, among the Inuits and some tribes in remote places in Indonesia and South America, it resulted in loss of identification, alcoholism, prostitution and death due to illnesses unknown to them, these zealots ought to be prosecuted.

 

Even if this is true, it reinforces my point. However, I invite you to prove your dubious claims.

11 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The concept of ‘God before country’ has a long history in Western Societies.

 

Yes, indeed it does.  For about 1,500 years (100 CE to 1600 CE) religion had been the dominant issue in Europe and the Middle East.  But the English Reformation under Henry VIII and the broader Protestant Reformation inspired by Martin Luther had broken the hold of the Catholic Church and established the supremacy of secular law and government over religious practice. 

 

 The  American and French Revolutions cemented the idea that religion had become a matter of individual conscience and not secular duty.   The separation of church and state is what  today distinguishes Western democracies from Muslim states.  In the West, people can choose to make religion a central part of their lives, but they are not forced to.  In Muslim states, Sharia law, based on the Quran and hadiths, still has a huge influence on secular law and daily life.

 

What Islam needs is a sweeping reformation and modernization that makes secular law superior to religious scripture.

3 hours ago, proton said:

 

Yes, lets not be too bothered about forced hijab wearing, homosexuality made illegal, sharia punishments, fmg, cousin marriages, the rape of unbelievers children and hate preached from mosques, its all part of the enrichment of diversity that Islam brings. 😊

In the UK?

 

 

11 minutes ago, Evil Penevil said:

 

Yes, indeed it does.  For about 1,500 years (100 CE to 1600 CE) religion had been the dominant issue in Europe and the Middle East.  But the English Reformation under Henry VIII and the broader Protestant Reformation inspired by Martin Luther had broken the hold of the Catholic Church and established the supremacy of secular law and government over religious practice. 

 

 The  American and French Revolutions cemented the idea that religion had become a matter of individual conscience and not secular duty.   The separation of church and state is what  today distinguishes Western democracies from Muslim states.  In the West, people can choose to make religion a central part of their lives, but they are not forced to.  In Muslim states, Sharia law, based on the Quran and hadiths, still has a huge influence on secular law and daily life.

 

What Islam needs is a sweeping reformation and modernization that makes secular law superior to religious scripture.

And yet this thread is awash with westerners ranting about other people following their faith.

 

It seems that for many in this thread religion is not a matter of personal conscience, despite UK clearly stating that it is.

9 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

Oh that's absolutely shocking thing to say ...please 

I can't fathom the "hate" you have in your heart 

I love meeting muslim men and always kiss them.on all three cheeks ,maybe you should learn to accept the world is changing 

You are aware the Koran says unbelievers should be killed, yes?

 

The next Muslim you kiss might shove a knife in your heart, which would be a sad loss to ASEAN posters.

11 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Which is why conscientious objectors in the two world wars were generally imprisoned.

 

USA 72,000 objectors, 6000 imprisoned

 

That does not seem "generally" to me

 

UK 60,000 objectors, 0 imprisoned

 

Canada 11,000 objectors, 0 imprisoned

 

Can you see how wrong your statement was?

18 minutes ago, Evil Penevil said:

 

Yes, indeed it does.  For about 1,500 years (100 CE to 1600 CE) religion had been the dominant issue in Europe and the Middle East.  But the English Reformation under Henry VIII and the broader Protestant Reformation inspired by Martin Luther had broken the hold of the Catholic Church and established the supremacy of secular law and government over religious practice. 

 

 The  American and French Revolutions cemented the idea that religion had become a matter of individual conscience and not secular duty.   The separation of church and state is what  today distinguishes Western democracies from Muslim states.  In the West, people can choose to make religion a central part of their lives, but they are not forced to.  In Muslim states, Sharia law, based on the Quran and hadiths, still has a huge influence on secular law and daily life.

 

What Islam needs is a sweeping reformation and modernization that makes secular law superior to religious scripture.

No-one can reform Islam, for the simple reason the Koran is regarded by Muslims as the last word of Allah, and not one single word in it can be changed.

3 hours ago, mokwit said:

So you are saying we can't speak the truth about Muslims/Islam? How does that square with Democracy and free speech.

 

Who says you can't.  There isn't a specific law against Islamophobia, unless it comes under the category of 'hate speech' which includes other religions too.

49 minutes ago, bigt3116 said:

 

USA 72,000 objectors, 6000 imprisoned

 

That does not seem "generally" to me

 

UK 60,000 objectors, 0 imprisoned

 

Canada 11,000 objectors, 0 imprisoned

 

Can you see how wrong your statement was?

IN WW1 6,000 men were imprisoned under harsh conditions in the UK for conscientious objection, in WW2 it was 3,000.

20 hours ago, Tailwagsdog said:

Free Speech does not entitle you to promote anarchy or destruction of democratic society. Please send these people to a place where their views align with others, or at least put them on trial for traitorous behaviour & foreign agent infiltration.

 

Do you apply the same standard to the US tech oligarchs? Musk? Zuckerberg who is now abandoning fact checking and aiming at the EU? Or the felonious Trump's verbal halitosis?

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Lacessit said:

No-one can reform Islam, for the simple reason the Koran is regarded by Muslims as the last word of Allah, and not one single word in it can be changed.

 

That's exactly what the Catholics said when Martin Luther popped up and spoiled their act.

 

Sooner or later even Islam will find out that nothing in this world was ever permanent and never will be. It took a thousand five hundred years to get to the Reformation. Islam is only 800 years old.