Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[The Cyclist]

37 minutes ago, Antti said:

The CRS may very well have a grand mission statement where it says that the aim is to stop tax evasion bla bla bla.

 

That is the bold headline.

 

The real info is down with the nuts and bolts and how you achieve it.

[anrcaccount]

28 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

3 simply questions people need to ask themselves.

 

1. Is the Royal Decree of 31 March 2023, followed by the issuance of 2 x POR's a coincidence ?

 

Yes, complete coincidence. 

 

 

28 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

2. Is Thailand, as a part of CRS, responsible for ensuring that Foreign income remitted to Thailand is.

 

A. Tax Complaint.

 

B. Not engaged in Tax Evasion

 

No, they're not responsible for that as part of the CRS data sharing regulations.

 

 

28 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

How are they going to achieve that, and by what method ?

 

They're not. 

 

 

28 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

 

 

3. Given the mis-information, lies, people apparently acting illegally, numerous media articles, that are all wrong, over the last 12 - 14 months. Why has the DG of the RD not issued a statement stamping on it ?

 

The RD isn't concerned with speculation in an expat forum, some cowboy expat led tax agencies, or poorly written and researched expat focused media articles. This isn't making the news in the Thai media.

 

 

[MikeandDow]

9 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

That is the bold headline.

 

The real info is down with the nuts and bolts and how you achieve it.

As my old pappy said "you cannot get blood out of a stone"  there is a lot of BS in these posts. scarmongering, greedy Tax agents, once the dust settles lets see !! there is  ways around thing in Thailand !!

[The Cyclist]

16 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

As my old pappy said "you cannot get blood out of a stone"

 

And that is the kicker. It is not about trying to get blood out of a stone.

 

It is about complying with an International Agreement.

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, Expat68 said:

2 hours ago, Moonlover said:

 

Thailand is not considering making you tax resident. If you stay here more than 180 days in the year you are tax resident. Those of us who live here permanently have always been tax residents, The fact that the TRD have never involved in their tax affairs is neither here nor there. (pardon the pun)

 

Your ISA company are quite right to query you on tax residency because only residents of the UK can hold ISAs.

 

1 hour ago, Expat68 said:

You are wrong about holding ISAs in the UK. I took my Stocks and Shares ISA out long before I moved to Thailand. You are allowed to hold an ISA. You are not allowed to open another one or add to the one you already hold

Ah yes, I'd forgotten that point. It's a long time since I held ISAs. So I guess that the enquiry from your ISA provider was  in connection with this NYC business that going on everywhere.

 

But you seem to have accepted my statement regarding tax residence so I guess we can call that touché. 🙂 

[lordgrinz]

1 hour ago, DualSportBiker said:

This is not what I was advised by a panel of tax specialists here at a Sasin (Chula) event. If you earn money in year 1 and are in Thailand for 180+days that same year, even if you remit the funds in a year you are not here for 180 days, you are still liable.

 

Tell them to state where it even remotely says that in the laws, then get back to us.

[redwood1]

I am pretty sure Thomas Carden is not a Thai citizen......So Mr Carden  maybe should be sent to jail (.He should look into soap on a rope)...

He is doing a job reserved for Thais....Giving Tax advice.....

 

Not to mention its in bad taste to be pumping your company  while giving said tax advice....

 

And why does not Mr. Carden put out a disclaimer.....That all this advice is HIS opinion....?

 

Also if Mr Carden does not know if buying a condo with money brought into Thailand is taxable or not, he should not be giving  tax advice....ZERO....

[Lopburikid]

22 hours ago, Card said:

They just want to get rid of you. Answering questions just gives them a headache. To be certain you need ti get something in writing and officially stamped just as they do.

I don't think that is right as they asked their boss, he called someone by phone, they checked all by documents, House lease, passport visa stamp, bank statements, plus the documents for my state and military pension that state how much I receive each month and still said "no tax on pension".

[Lopburikid]

21 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Confusing?  Sounds pretty clear to me.

Confusing in the fact that one says pensions are taxable, but others, such as the tax revenue office say different 

[samtam]

1 hour ago, samtam said:

@NoDisplayName I will file the PN90 for both (salary wage and pension)

No salary, no wage, only pension.

 

1. Taxpayer THB60,000 personal allowance does not seem to have a [box].

 

I cannot see on the P90 where one puts in TEDA, but maybe that is in the Tax Computation section 11?

 

But there is an Income Exemption Entitlement form to be used with PN90. although nowhere I can see that one can include an item for 50% of pension income up to THB100,000. If you know, can you tell me the item number on the form.

 

Income and for withholding tax refund: I think the reclaim of withholding tax comes under "Tax Computation" item 13. "Less [box] Withholding Tax and Tax Credit" but if you can confirm or correct, I would be much obliged.

 

I guess I'm looking for a proforma example of how to complete a PN.90.

I remember seeing one for PN.91....in Mike Lister's definitive guide, I think.

[redwood1]

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

 

And that is the kicker. It is not about trying to get blood out of a stone.

 

It is about complying with an International Agreement.

 

Well agreements change all the time Mr pro government policy 100% of the time Cyclist..

[Neeranam]

4 hours ago, Presnock said:

WRONG - a foreigner working in Thailand has to pay (normally taken out of paycheck I think) Thai taxes, in addition, there are articles on the web that advises one who stays in Thailand over 179 days and becomes a "tax resident" must be aware of any assessable foreign income remitted to Thailand in 2024  (BTW if in overseas savings prior to 1 Jan 2024 then not assessable) plenty of forum one comments about owing taxes or not recognizing it or not but it is a fact.  One needs to be aware if one is a Tax Resident and remits money in 2024 to Thailand.

I wrote 'foreign retirees'.

[Presnock]

16 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I am merely pointing out that the Director General has told people, other than foreigners, they have to file in this article.  Does that not lend some weight to at least the possibility that he did in fact tell foreigners they have to file as well.   Do you agree the BP is a credible source?  

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Sure but you've got to consider lost in translation both in language and reporting.

well, it comes down to facts - if a foreigner stays in Thailand more than 179 days in a calendar year he is a Tax Resident.  If that tax resident has assessable income key word of course is assessable, then by law he is supposed to get a Thai tax id from the revenue dept.  Then, even if this tax resident doesn't have to pay any tax due to amount below the lowest amount then this person is required by local law to fil a tax form.  There are some questions about exemptions by royal decree or DTA's which might mean the tax resident might not really have assessable income but some of these things are questionable.  Just by studying the facts in the revenue dept web site (in English if needed) one can see some facts about an expatt and taxes.  Ignorance of the law is not a valid excuse from prosecution, even here in LOS.  But, I do wish good luck in the thai tax endevors.

[Neeranam]

22 hours ago, Card said:

They just want to get rid of you. Answering questions just gives them a headache. To be certain you need ti get something in writing and officially stamped just as they do.

That really depends on you fluency in Thai language.

[Sig]

On 1/15/2025 at 3:05 PM, Jingthing said:

Sounds like that was lost in translation. 

Records don't prevent audits.

Records are to be prepared for them.

Yes, that was my point, except I don't think it has anything to do with translation, just the person speaking without thinking about what they're saying.

[Presnock]

18 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Would you believe it? Just done a search in Thai and there is absolutely NOTHING in the internet about foreign retirees having to pay income tax in Thailand! proves beyond reasonable doubt that these charlatan companies, as well as English press, are causing undue concern for financial gain, or clicks. 

what you fail to understand is the Thai revenue dept definition of a tax resident - more than 179 days in a calendar year.  some foreign retirees might not have assessable income that is true but, if they do they will be required to get a tax id number and file a tax form even it means no taxes need to be paid as their amounts are below the necessary amount.  Some retirees may be exempted by royal decree or DTA with their home country but if not, then they are required to file.  However, this is 2024 and only remitted foreign income that meets the criteria can easily be found and ignorance of the thai tax laws does not stop the trd prosecuting that tax resident.

[Presnock]

17 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Irrelevant, really.

 

He told "taxpayers" or perhaps "tax-residents" that they should file if they are required to do so.

 

That has absolutely nothing at all to do with interpretations or potential changes to the regulations.

 

Is BP credible?  Not that they're always wrong, but they are also filled with infotainment articles written by "journalists" not expert in the topic on which they report, adding cut 'n paste filler, paraphrasing instead of directly quoting, all followed by a double spoonful of poor translations.

 

No, the DG said nothing relevant to foreign retirees wondering if they need to declare their credit card purchases. 

well what you and others fail to understand, there are specific Thai laws about taxation of assessable income from Tax Residents including any foreigner who remains in Thailand more than 179 days in a calendar year.  The TRD publishes the criteria for obtaining a thai tax id number - #1 for example says if one remits assessable foreign income he must obtain a thai tax id number within 60 days and is required to file tax forms.  Just because YOU haven't read the rules, doesn't excuse you from being a tax resident and if you do have assessable income remitted this year, then if you fail to follow the local laws, you could be prosecuted for that failure.  The TRD and finance people have mentioned many times that their draft law is to get all tax residents to be part of the base paying taxes be it the negative income scheme, worldwide income taxation scheme or something entirely different.  But right now if one has been in Thailand in calendar year 2024, who remitted assessable income, they that person is supposed to get a tax id and file the tax form.

[NoDisplayName]

4 hours ago, Presnock said:

whether or not he says it, what is the law about being a Tax Resident?  so after 179 days here, you hang around does that mean you can ignore the tax laws of Thailand?  if you remitted foreign income during 2024 that wa assessable in Thailand, and you do not get a tax id nor file tax forms, they you are breaking the local laws.  I realize too that not all income some of which can be exempted and some protected by local DTA's, are in fact non-assessable so don't have to be reported.  Ignorance in many countries of local tax laws can mean one can be arrested, fined, jailed or all three I think but I could be wrong but I definitely learned about my financial status and taxation.

 

C'mon, man!  Your reinterpretation of my comments is almost as bad as the fake journo from the examiner misquoting the tax official!

 

That's not what I said.

 

1.  Taxman says everyone should follow the tax law.

2.  I'm subject to the tax law, as well as being a foreigner.

3.  Taxman reminds filers that are required to file should file.

4.  I'm not required to file a return, or declare items not required to file if I do file.

5.  The "reporter" added 2000 words of cut-n-paste nonsense, with many errors, to pad out a short blurb about a press conference using only one or two poorly translated incorrect paraphrasings.

 

I follow all the tax laws, both here and back in the US.

I had a TIN which was cancelled when my pink ID was activated.

According to the Thai tax laws, I am not required to file a return.

I filed 3 Thai late tax returns last year, filed 2024 return last week.

I file to obtain a refund of interest and dividend withholding.

My remittances are all pre-2024 savings.

I do not declare any remittances.

[Presnock]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

100 percent.

However, there is that one change we know about which apparently was something like a memo.

It was about the timing of remittances.

Used to be previous year earnings were all exempt.

The memo said no longer the case  -- loophole closed.

Can a policy change like that really be changed that way without passing a law?

Buggered if I know! 

yes they say as they are not changing the law, only closing a loophole and amending the "existing" law.

[MikeandDow]

7 minutes ago, Presnock said:

what you fail to understand is the Thai revenue dept definition of a tax resident - more than 179 days in a calendar year.  some foreign retirees might not have assessable income that is true but, if they do they will be required to get a tax id number and file a tax form even it means no taxes need to be paid as their amounts are below the necessary amount.  Some retirees may be exempted by royal decree or DTA with their home country but if not, then they are required to file.  However, this is 2024 and only remitted foreign income that meets the criteria can easily be found and ignorance of the thai tax laws does not stop the trd prosecuting that tax resident.

So !! if you read previous post,  where Expats have gone to get a Tax id and have been told to go away !! how do you explain that ???

[Presnock]

1 minute ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

C'mon, man!  Your reinterpretation of my comments is almost as bad as the fake journo from the examiner misquoting the tax official!

 

That's not what I said.

 

1.  Taxman says everyone should follow the tax law.

2.  I'm subject to the tax law, as well as being a foreigner.

3.  Taxman reminds filers that are required to file should file.

4.  I'm not required to file a return, or declare items not required to file if I do file.

5.  The "reporter" added 2000 words of cut-n-paste nonsense, with many errors, to pad out a short blurb about a press conference using only one or two poorly translated incorrect paraphrasings.

 

I follow all the tax laws, both here and back in the US.

I had a TIN which was cancelled when my pink ID was activated.

According to the Thai tax laws, I am not required to file a return.

I filed 3 Thai late tax returns last year, filed 2024 return last week.

I file to obtain a refund of interest and dividend withholding.

My remittances are all pre-2024 savings.

I do not declare any remittances.

In that case, I apologize as I thought you were ignoring the tax laws.  

[redwood1]

15 minutes ago, Presnock said:

what you fail to understand is the Thai revenue dept definition of a tax resident - more than 179 days in a calendar year.  some foreign retirees might not have assessable income that is true but, if they do they will be required to get a tax id number and file a tax form even it means no taxes need to be paid as their amounts are below the necessary amount.  Some retirees may be exempted by royal decree or DTA with their home country but if not, then they are required to file.  However, this is 2024 and only remitted foreign income that meets the criteria can easily be found and ignorance of the thai tax laws does not stop the trd prosecuting that tax resident.

 

100% wrong.......If no taxes are due no income tax needs to be filed......

 

If this was not true.....Then about 85% of Thais would need to be sent to jail for not filing.....Not so much as a single time in their life..

 

Almost the entire Thai population would need to be arrested and sent to prison..

[Presnock]

1 minute ago, MikeandDow said:

So !! if you read previous post,  where Expats have gone to get a Tax id and have been told to go away !! how do you explain that ???

I do believe that the TRD is just like the immigration folks and other govt organizations - failure to reign in all offices of that agency and in this case, since the finance/TRD folks at hqs are supposedly working on a draft tax law, they can't get all to agree so it just keeps awaiting a final act to be passed by cabinet /parliament and publishing.  Even, if there are a lot of changes which is possible, it may be many months before even the field offices are advised.

 

2 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

100% wrong.......If no taxes are due no income tax needs to be filed......

 

If this was not true.....Then about 85% of Thais would need to be sent to jail for not filing.....Not so much as a single time in their life..

Just read the TRD guidelines of tax reporting/filing, that is where my info came from.

[NoDisplayName]

1 minute ago, Presnock said:

well what you and others fail to understand

 

I understand the tax laws that affect me mostly completely.

 

You fail to understand this comment and responses is related to what was said by the GD and what was reported.

 

Other posters believe the GD's comments, never quoted, only paraphrased, are directed specifically at foreign tax residents and imply some major changes in the tax code targeting foreigners.

 

My comments on that article are that we really don't know what the GD said, and many of the specific points brought up in the article on the law are wrong, so unlikely those paragraphs came from the GD.

 

I believe this to be more a clickbayt-style article prepared by a staff writer with no tax expertise, who likely wrote the article from another staffer's notes, and then spiced it up by adding loads of foreigner-related extraneous material for the English edition of the paper.

[MikeandDow]

6 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

100% wrong.......If no taxes are due no income tax needs to be filed......

 

If this was not true.....Then about 85% of Thais would need to be sent to jail for not filing.....Not so much as a single time in their life..

Sensible post !!  asked wife a long time ago (15yrs) why not pay Tax ?? she shrugged "My Money not goverment. wait policeman come arrest me " she is still waiting !!  think i will take my wife's advice

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

This poster is completely misinformed on what the CRS actually is, and continues post this rubbish. They've been corrected on this multiple times, by multiple members now. 

Yeah, his ignorance is becoming annoying. Remittance income -- only pertinent to two nations in the world (Thailand and Malta) -- is not even a footnote in any Double Tax Treaty. And, not in any CRS dialogue. Not sure what his agenda is.....

[NoDisplayName]

3 hours ago, samtam said:

@NoDisplayName I will file the PN90 for both (salary wage and pension)

No salary, no wage, only pension.

 

1. Taxpayer THB60,000 personal allowance does not seem to have a [box].

 

I cannot see on the P90 where one puts in TEDA, but maybe that is in the Tax Computation section 11?

 

But there is an Income Exemption Entitlement form to be used with PN90. although nowhere I can see that one can include an item for 50% of pension income up to THB100,000. If you know, can you tell me the item number on the form.

 

Income and for withholding tax refund: I think the reclaim of withholding tax comes under "Tax Computation" item 13. "Less [box] Withholding Tax and Tax Credit" but if you can confirm or correct, I would be much obliged.

 

The 60K allowance is automatic.  Wife and I file joint (although we don't have to file at all), and got 120K.

 

Take a look at the English forms on the TRD website, as they mostly match up with the Thai versions.  No 2024 of course, but 2023 should be approximately the same.  That should tell you where to find the 100K pension allowance.

 

I think the bank interest goes in section 3 for 40(4) income.   You need to enter total interest received, total tax withheld, and your bank's TIN.

 

You can download the English instructions from the website.  And if I remember correctly, you fill in the amounts and section 11 tax computation is completed by the system.  I did not declare a pension, so don't know if that 100K allowance is automatic also.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/65308.html

 

You can use PromptPay if your bank account is linked to your pink ID.  My local Bangkok Bank won't do that, so I have to wait a couple weeks for a refund letter, which must be redeemed at KrungThai Bank.

 

***EDIT***

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/2023/220367PIT90.pdf

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/2023/GUIDE_90_66_Complete.pdf

 

Check section 1.  Your pension goes in line 1.  Scroll down a bit to line 5....that seems to be the 100K expense allowance. 

 

No. 1 item 5.
Enter allowable expense equal to 50% of the amount stated in item 4. but not exceeding 100,000 baht. If you and your spouse both have income and you are filing jointly, you and your spouse can each deduct expense as stated above. Thus, the maximum allowable expense is 200,000 baht in this case.

 

 

Anyone know if this means a married couple can take a 200K expense allowance on a remitted pension IF spouse has income???

 

 

 

 

NOTICE:  THIS IS OPINION ONLY.  NOT ADVICE.  FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY

[anchadian]

1 hour ago, redwood1 said:

I am pretty sure Thomas Carden is not a Thai citizen......So Mr Carden  maybe should be sent to jail (.He should look into soap on a rope)...

He is doing a job reserved for Thais....Giving Tax advice.....

 

Not to mention its in bad taste to be pumping your company  while giving said tax advice....

 

And why does not Mr. Carden put out a disclaimer.....That all this advice is HIS opinion....?

 

Also if Mr Carden does not know if buying a condo with money brought into Thailand is taxable or not, he should not be giving  tax advice....ZERO....

This has already been stated previously.
 

Dont you read the thread?

[Neeranam]

26 minutes ago, Presnock said:

some foreign retirees might not have assessable income that is true but, if they do they will be required to get a tax id number and file a tax form even it means no taxes need to be paid as their amounts are below the necessary amount. 

Says who? I advise foreign retirees to do nothing, the RD are not interested in them in the slightest, their Thai bank is not interested in whether or not they are registered with Thai RD. It is only charlatan foreign agents who are spreading the misinformation for their own profit. There is nothing much in the Thai media/social networks about low income people, apart from some menial workers abroad wondering if they have to pay tax in Thailand, which they don't. The removal of the loophole and for Thais with foreign income is only relevant to very rich people remitting sums of say 10 million baht regularly, this is when the bank may raise an eyebrow; they are not under any obligation to report people to the tax authorities. 

Foreign retirees remitting 100k baht a month or whatever is of NO interest to Thailand whatsoever, except the bottom dwellers preying on old, naive farang. 

In fact, if you stupidly go and get a Thai tax ID number, you are doing more harm than good, but giving the message to Thai government that you want to pay something. 

[redwood1]

14 minutes ago, anchadian said:

This has already been stated previously.
 

Dont you read the thread?

 

I think the previous posts left out ....The soap on a rope.....lol