Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[NoDisplayName]

4 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

41 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Nothing has changed, and nothing will change.....this year, fer shirley!

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, so it's "this year" now.  

 

Careful, that looks like you are suggesting things COULD change next year, and that's scaremongering. 

 

Absolutely!

 

The TRD could come out with a new directive stating all foreigners, regardless of tax residency, need not file tax returns in Thailand, no matter how much they remit.

 

It could happen.

 

Prove me wrong.

 

See how that works?

[redwood1]

Ok folks this threads new name is the KhunHeineken thread...

 

Where he can post his nonsense 24/7...

 

Just keep in mind if you post here your posting in his thread..

[NoDisplayName]

'Begone foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! 

Leave the tax residents in peace!'

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, stoutfella said:

Yes, but has it happened yet, and on that day exactly what will happen?

Well, you have until the 31st March for paper filing, and the 8th April for filing electronically. 

 

If you have stayed more than 180 days, and have remitted assessable income, over the threshold, and haven't filed by the above dates, you have committed an offense.

 

The issue under some debate is an expat individual may say his remittances are from non assessable income, which they may, or may not be, but neither a Thai bank or the Thai government knows the origin or source of the funds, so, there MAY be some issues further down the track for not filing.

 

Some members have already filed, paid a small tax bill, got their tax clearance certificate, and can rest easy for another 12 months.  I will be doing the same.

 

Others believe it's all a big nothing, so they will do nothing, and it will go away.  

 

You have to decide what's best for yourself.     

[KhunHeineken]

9 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

'Begone foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! 

Leave the tax residents in peace!'

"Let them eat cake." 

[KhunHeineken]

11 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

Ok folks this threads new name is the KhunHeineken thread...

 

Where he can post his nonsense 24/7...

 

Just keep in mind if you post here your posting in his thread..

I thought you were putting me on ignore.

[KhunHeineken]

16 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

The TRD could come out with a new directive stating all foreigners, regardless of tax residency, need not file tax returns in Thailand, no matter how much they remit.

No, they would still have to be a tax resident, as in, stay over 180 days. 

 

However, it's highly likely they will not allow foreigners to simply do nothing and claim their remitted funds are from non assessable income.  Otherwise, no money from foreigners, because, who would pay when they don't have to?

 

Now, I wonder how they could may foreigners pay.  Oh, that's right, expat tax residents need to go to immigration every year.  How about we tell them they must get a certificate from the TRD before we give them their extension.   Excellent idea Minister of Finance.  Send down the order. 

 

Surely not, it's too much like rocket science.  

[NoDisplayName]

17 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Some members have already filed, paid a small tax bill, got their tax clearance certificate, and can rest easy for another 12 months.  I will be doing the same.

 

Really?

 

I'm not aware of anyone obtaining a "tax clearance certificate."

 

Copy of filing and TRD receipt, yes.

Tax clearance certificate, no.

[NoDisplayName]

18 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I will be doing the same.

 

I've heard that before.

[jwest10]

2 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I suppose most of them would be in the village, but I don't think too many in southern tourist areas. 

Certainly but not everyone wants to live in tourist places and where there are so many ex-pats

[Felton Jarvis]

Refer to Benjamin Hart's videos on this topic on his Integrity Legal YouTube channel. Ben thinks this will not be an issue for most expats.

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, Felton Jarvis said:

Refer to Benjamin Hart's videos on this topic on his Integrity Legal YouTube channel. Ben thinks this will not be an issue for most expats.

That's a gross oversimplification of his position, 

His actual position is that he doesn't think it will impact most retired expats.

Presumably because of pension DTAs.

But he's very clear that it will impact many people but the only way to know if you're one of those people is to look at (or have a Thai lawyer/tax guy look at) the specific details of your specific situation to know for sure.

I for one am one of those retired expats that he suggests probably won't be impacted.

But turns out I will be impacted because of the specific nature of the type of income that I will be remitting. 

So nobody should use such oversimplified generalizations from anyone about whether they will or won't be required to enter the tax system here. That does not wash. You need to go deeper.

[Yumthai]

2 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Some members have already filed, paid a small tax bill, got their tax clearance certificate, and can rest easy for another 12 months.  I will be doing the same.

Will you? Confusing... since you keep telling us you'll be using a Tax agent to bypass lodging a tax return/get a tax certificate the same way you use an Immigration agent for your yearly extension of stay.

[KhunHeineken]

3 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Will you? Confusing... since you keep telling us you'll be using a Tax agent to bypass lodging a tax return/get a tax certificate the same way you use an Immigration agent for your yearly extension of stay.

Huh? 

 

I am not going to bypass anything.  I will be filling, but through an agent. 

 

The agent will "take care" of everything.  He can even negotiate the amount of tax to be paid.  Yes, crazy, but hey, TiT.

 

I could sit back and do nothing, but I have a feeling something could come back and bite me in the *ss in the future, so I will pay some tax, but really all I am paying for is that piece of paper from the TRD that means I am good for the next 12 months.  In a way, just like an extension.   

 

Then, I will sit back and watch the chaos and carnage.  

 

Basically, I view that piece of paper from the TRD as an insurance policy. 

 

If you disagree, fine.  Roll the dice with it.  You might get a free pass, or you might get screwed.   Good Luck to everyone with what they decide to do. 

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

That's a gross oversimplification of his position, 

That's a gross undersimplification of his position. 

 

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

His actual position is that he doesn't think it will impact most retired expats.

His actual position is it will effect expats in the future. 

 

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Presumably because of pension DTAs.

Presumably because he sees a "domestic clearance" policy in the future. 

 

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

But he's very clear that it will impact many people but the only way to know if you're one of those people is to look at (or have a Thai lawyer/tax guy look at) the specific details of your specific situation to know for sure.

All foreigners need a visa to reside in Thailand, thus, you will be impacted. 

 

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I for one am one of those retired expats that he suggests probably won't be impacted.

Wishful thinking. 

 

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

But turns out I will be impacted because of the specific nature of the type of income that I will be remitting. 

You just said you would not be impacted. 

 

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

So nobody should use such oversimplified generalizations from anyone about whether they will or won't be required to enter the tax system here. That does not wash. You need to go deeper.

No one should undersimplify either.

 

Go deeper into what?

 

The TRD want some money out of foreigners.  Give them some money, as least as possible, then go back to enjoying life in Thailand.

 

Do you really think they either know, or care about, assessable, non assessable, DTA's,  pre 2024 savings, blah blah blah?  No.  They just want some money, and farang will pay, or will have to accept the consequences.   

 

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, Felton Jarvis said:

Refer to Benjamin Hart's videos on this topic on his Integrity Legal YouTube channel. Ben thinks this will not be an issue for most expats.

Ben has also stated he thinks a "domestic clearance" will be needed in the future for all visa classes. 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

That's a gross undersimplification of his position. 

 

His actual position is it will effect expats in the future. 

 

Presumably because he sees a "domestic clearance" policy in the future. 

 

All foreigners need a visa to reside in Thailand, thus, you will be impacted. 

 

Wishful thinking. 

 

You just said you would not be impacted. 

 

No one should undersimplify either.

 

Go deeper into what?

 

The TRD want some money out of foreigners.  Give them some money, as least as possible, then go back to enjoying life in Thailand.

 

Do you really think they either know, or care about, assessable, non assessable, DTA's,  pre 2024 savings, blah blah blah?  No.  They just want some money, and farang will pay, or will have to accept the consequences.   

 

What a bizarre disingenuous distortion of my post.

I don't have time to for such pest-like behavior.

GOODBYE. 

[KhunHeineken]

2 hours ago, jwest10 said:

Certainly but not everyone wants to live in tourist places and where there are so many ex-pats

Sure.  Each to their own.   

[KhunHeineken]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

What a bizarre disingenuous distortion of my post.

What a bizarre disingenuous distortion of his video. 

 

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I don't have time to for such pest-like behavior.

People do not have time for your misleading interpretation of what they can clearly see and hear in his video. 

 

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

GOODBYE. 

Goodbye. 

[KhunHeineken]

3 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

I've heard that before.

And you will be doing NOTHING, which I have heard many times before. 

[KhunHeineken]

3 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Really?

 

I'm not aware of anyone obtaining a "tax clearance certificate."

 

Copy of filing and TRD receipt, yes.

Tax clearance certificate, no.

Same Same. 

 

It means you can rest easy, as you are legal. 

 

What's your buddy Ben have to say about it? 

[NoDisplayName]

19 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

And you will be doing NOTHING, which I have heard many times before. 

 

No, dear.

I filed 2021, 2022, and 2023 returns last July.

I filed 2024 return on the 4th of January.

 

Do betta, yo.

[NoDisplayName]

23 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Same Same. 

 

It means you can rest easy, as you are legal. 

 

What's your buddy Ben have to say about it? 

 

Tax receipt gained upon filing is NOT same-same as "tax clearance certificate" one must apply for, and which is only valid for, I believe, two weeks.

 

You receive your receipt in person upon filing, or can download when online filing is accepted.

 

The "tax clearance certificate" is much more involved, explained here:

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/23518.html

 

No need to respond.

You bore me.

[KhunHeineken]

13 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

No, dear.

I filed 2021, 2022, and 2023 returns last July.

I filed 2024 return on the 4th of January.

 

Do betta, yo.

Ahhhh, so YOU file, but tell others there is no need for them to file, and no need to worry.  What a hypocrite.  

 

[oldcpu]

6 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

If you are under the tax free threshold, then fine. 

 

I don't know many expats that could live here comfortably on that amount, but good luck to you.  

 

The tax free threshold uses assessable income to determine the threshold. Those expats whose income is exempt Thai tax due to a DTA don't need to include such in threshold calculation and hence don't need a TIN ( if no other income puts them over the threshold) nor do they need to file a Thai tax return. 

 

Unlike you, I do know a number in that category. 

 

If you don't know many,  perhaps you need to get out more.

 

It is important expats understand the DTA  of their income source country has with Thailand to assess if their income is excluded from Thai tax, or taxable in both the source country and Thailand,  or if such income only taxable in Thailand.

 

[KhunHeineken]

11 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Tax receipt gained upon filing is NOT same-same a

It's Same Same.  It means you have dealt with this new BS tax policy and can rest easy.  

 

Go an make a youtube video and post it here if you think otherwise.  

[KhunHeineken]

19 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

The tax free threshold uses assessable income to determine the threshold.

You still think it's going to play out that way.

 

Maybe it will, maybe it won't. 

 

Assessable income, non assessable income, pre 2024 savings, DTA's, blah blah blah. 

 

In my opinion, foreigners will be made to pay "something."  Does it matter why?  Are you going to take on the TRD / Thai government in Court, and risk your happy life in Thailand, no.

 

The Thai government says pay, you will pay.  You know it, and they know you know it.  Hence, a bill is on its way.  

 

Do you remember where you are living.? You have no rights here.

[oldcpu]

57 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

You still think it's going to play out that way.

 

Maybe it will, maybe it won't. 

 

Assessable income, non assessable income, pre 2024 savings, DTA's, blah blah blah. 

 

In my opinion, foreigners will be made to pay "something."

 

Well, the Thai RD, when contacted, disagree with you.  OK.  They disagree with you

 

So you think you know better than the Thai RD and Thai tax law, ehh   ? 

 

I don't think so.

 

 

57 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

  Does it matter why?  Are you going to take on the TRD / Thai government in Court, and risk your happy life in Thailand, no.

 

There is no need to go court when one is 100% compliant with Thai tax law, according to the Thai RD.  

 

Ohh ... you mean go to court for the KhunHeineken countershuffle?  Ha !  Now that is funny.

 

Ohhh ... apologies ...  I forgot ... you think you know better than the Thai RD.

 

[jerrymahoney]

10 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

The issue under some debate is an expat individual may say his remittances are from non assessable income, which they may, or may not be, but neither a Thai bank or the Thai government knows the origin or source of the funds, so, there MAY be some issues further down the track for not filing.

That isn't 100% true. I use the 65K+ baht per month retirement extension regime and every year I supply a "source of funds" letter from the managing financial institution. That letter shows that the funds comply in effect with terms of the US-Thailand DTA.

(Article 20 Paragraph 3.)

 

My other source of funds is US Social Security.

[FriscoKid]

18 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

This fellow is getting more and more entertaining in each video.

 

It's like one of our reptilian overlords living on a secret base on the dark side of the moon, assessable only via stargate behind the Antarctic ice wall, ran a cloning operation that merged a flat earf'er with a creationist, resulting in a sovereign citizen.

 

"But officer, I'm not driving, I'm traveling!  And this is not a motor vehicle, it's my conveyance, my personal property not in commerce, traveling from A to B.  And you don't have personal jurisdiction over this flesh and blood, standing on the earf', lower case name not affiliated with the all-caps entity shown on that arrest warrant.  I want a supervisor.  NOW.  So is this an Article 3 detention?  Are you coercing me under common law or maritime law?   Hey!  You can't taze me!"

What happened to Bong-Hits-Ben? He went from being the happy little Thai citizen, whilst being so positive about everything in the hub of hubs, to being the fed up, frustrated farang that's had enough and can't take it anymore.
 

It's like he paid for long-time, but when she got undressed, he immediately began wishing he only went for short time. Check Binnnnnnn!!!