Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[giddyup]

20 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Not for the tax return, unless you were for some reason unable to file it yourself.

 

There is one infamous poster, not seen recently, who has been disseminating disinformation, claiming that immigration WILL require tax returns, and that tax clearance certificates WILL be needed.

 

Also claimed WILL be using an agent to file a return AND to obtain a tax clearance certificate.....which is not normally available.

 

As far as I am aware, YOU (and four others you claim YOU know of) are the only posters to have received a "TCC".

 

Would you mind posting a photo of your "tax clearance certificate," with personal info redacted of course?

I never said I'd even been to the Revenue department, let alone got a tax certificate.

[NoDisplayName]

Just now, TheAppletons said:

 

 

 

But why did you output 5000 baht for this lovely certificate, suitable for framing?

 

There are only three cases for which one must obtain this unobainium:

 

*They are required to pay taxes or settle tax debts before departing Thailand.

*They are obligated to file a tax return and pay taxes on behalf of a company or legal partnership established under foreign law and operating in Thailand.

*They have taxable income, whether earned in Thailand or not, by working as a public performer in Thailand.

 

Additionally, the Revenue Department issued a notice on May 7, 1991, from the Director-General, stating that foreigners leaving Thailand do not need to apply for a tax certificate unless they fall into the three cases mentioned above.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/23518.html

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

8 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I never said I'd even been to the Revenue department, let alone got a tax certificate.

 

Oops.  My misteak.

 

That was roobaah01 and friends.

[JimGant]

22 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

 

 

Any chance you suppressed the giggles when you produced that? You made my day. Any humor in the signature -- I can't quite read it?

[TheAppletons]

18 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Any chance you suppressed the giggles when you produced that? You made my day. Any humor in the signature -- I can't quite read it?

 

  The signature is something along the lines of Somchai Wattanalakatittijorat.  

[jas007]

On 1/16/2025 at 4:31 AM, Bravoxray said:

What if one is over the 180 day threshold and the only income (aside from untaxable Social Security) is a U.S. government pension which the DTA says is not taxable in Thailand. Is it still mandatory to register and file?

I have that situation and I'm not going to.  The DTA addresses not only Social Security, but government pensions, which are taxable ONLY in the country of origin.  Bring into Thailand less that what you receive from those sources, why would you file?  My opinion. only. Not advice. 

[topt]

4 hours ago, giddyup said:

What proof would you like, video evidence of the encounter?

Does he have a receipt?

 

[topt]

1 hour ago, jas007 said:

I have that situation and I'm not going to.  The DTA addresses not only Social Security, but government pensions, which are taxable ONLY in the country of origin.  Bring into Thailand less that what you receive from those sources, why would you file?  My opinion. only. Not advice. 

Based on the "supposed" 4 posters who managed to pay 5k when supposedly nothing was required, anybody, with genuinely non assessable income (eg. as in DTA or savings pre 2024 precludes it),  would be literally bonkers to go and try and file.......my opinion only of course......

[jas007]

12 minutes ago, topt said:

Based on the "supposed" 4 posters who managed to pay 5k when supposedly nothing was required, anybody, with genuinely non assessable income (eg. as in DTA or savings pre 2024 precludes it),  would be literally bonkers to go and try and file.......my opinion only of course......

One of the first things I learned after law school.  "Let the sleeping dog lie."

 

In other words, for these purposes,  the Tax Treaty addressed the issue.  Leave it alone. 

[BrianStar]

I went to the tax department in Pattaya to get my TIN. I didn't bring my bank statements or tax return in the USA with me since I wanted to file online. They told me if I get the TIN, I need to file there and the tax would be 5000 baht. She said I don't have to file if I don't want to. I asked what if I don't transfer any money into Thailand for the year? She said don't file a return. She cited that the government is lazy and not likely going to enforce it and I only need to do it if they give me a problem getting a new visa.

 

Kinda wacky hearing this considering that we must get a TIN even if we have no income to report simply because of the 180 day rule. But to get a TIN, they require a tax filing to be done and won't do anything if we have no money coming into the country. Talk about confusing! I've also had significant income over the years prior to 2024 which could be brought over without requiring it to be on the tax return but have no clue what happens in the case of an audit or difficulty with obtaining a visa. I get my DTV online, anyway, so I don't expect there to be an problems with that. Again, "government is lazy" is what the lady at the tax office told me.

 

Many people went in front of me who seemed quite displeased with the 5000 baht minimum and I guess many ended up leaving without bothering to file. I'm hoping that I'll get the TIN in the mail as expected and just be able to file online next year and hopefully not have to pay again. I suspect the 5000 minimum might be a payoff to them for doing the work but my gf did point out it said 5000 owed on the form. Probably still BS.

[topt]

8 minutes ago, BrianStar said:

I suspect the 5000 minimum might be a payoff to them for doing the work but my gf did point out it said 5000 owed on the form. Probably still BS.

The more I read this sort of BS the more I think some "enterprising " Jomtien based RD official has decided it is a good way to get money for basically nothing. 

Why have they done that - I can only presume they saw the numbers of foreigners turning up to request TIN's even though they had no tax to pay and decided to make use of it. Purely my supposition however I very much doubt that everybody's tax bill is going to be exactly 5k baht......

 

Thanks by the way for confirming it is Pattaya. I have presumed you mean the Jomtien office other side of 2nd rd near Immigration but please correct me if wrong.

[BrianStar]

44 minutes ago, topt said:

The more I read this sort of BS the more I think some "enterprising " Jomtien based RD official has decided it is a good way to get money for basically nothing. 

Why have they done that - I can only presume they saw the numbers of foreigners turning up to request TIN's even though they had no tax to pay and decided to make use of it. Purely my supposition however I very much doubt that everybody's tax bill is going to be exactly 5k baht......

 

Thanks by the way for confirming it is Pattaya. I have presumed you mean the Jomtien office other side of 2nd rd near Immigration but please correct me if wrong.

Yes, it's Jomtien. And I ball parked the amount of money I had brought in as 400k and that's when she told me 5k. She seemed to mention if it was a different amount, it would change. But when I asked for the formula, she couldn't explain and just started showing me the individual tax tables. It definitely seemed like BS and my gf was no help because she's a very passive person and takes what anyone says as the truth so I was left with the decision to pay 5k so I'd have the TIN for next year and can do it online.

 

They do post that you need bank statements to pay the tax but I didn't bring mine, expecting to file online but she still filed for me based on the random amount I told her. I should have low-balled the estimate but didn't expect she'd tell me there's any tax due to begin with.

[BrianStar]

4 hours ago, jas007 said:

I have that situation and I'm not going to.  The DTA addresses not only Social Security, but government pensions, which are taxable ONLY in the country of origin.  Bring into Thailand less that what you receive from those sources, why would you file?  My opinion. only. Not advice. 

From what I understand, being in Thailand for 180+ days requires getting the TIN but you would not file the return if you have no assessable income. The issue I ran into was the agent wouldn't let me get the TIN without filing and said not to file if I had no money brought into Thailand.

[TheAppletons]

10 minutes ago, BrianStar said:

From what I understand, being in Thailand for 180+ days requires getting the TIN but you would not file the return if you have no assessable income. 

 

  From what the TRD says, that is not true.  

 

  You only need to apply for a TIN "within 60 days he derives assessable income."

 

  https://www.rd.go.th/english/21987.html

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, BrianStar said:

Many people went in front of me who seemed quite displeased with the 5000 baht minimum and I guess many ended up leaving without bothering to file. I'm hoping that I'll get the TIN in the mail as expected and just be able to file online next year and hopefully not have to pay again. I suspect the 5000 minimum might be a payoff to them for doing the work but my gf did point out it said 5000 owed on the form. Probably still BS.

 

I don't believe this story.

Could be true, but unlikely.

[offset]

1 hour ago, BrianStar said:

Yes, it's Jomtien. And I ball parked the amount of money I had brought in as 400k and that's when she told me 5k. She seemed to mention if it was a different amount, it would change. But when I asked for the formula, she couldn't explain and just started showing me the individual tax tables. It definitely seemed like BS and my gf was no help because she's a very passive person and takes what anyone says as the truth so I was left with the decision to pay 5k so I'd have the TIN for next year and can do it online.

 

They do post that you need bank statements to pay the tax but I didn't bring mine, expecting to file online but she still filed for me based on the random amount I told her. I should have low-balled the estimate but didn't expect she'd tell me there's any tax due to begin with.

Is this 5000baht fee only being asked for in Pattaya

[BrianStar]

34 minutes ago, offset said:

Is this 5000baht fee only being asked for in Pattaya

I suspect that this is an issue specifically for Jomtien, although other places MIGHT also be scamming people. I suggest telling them you only transferred like 500 baht for the year. I think they won't be able to convince you to pay 5000 on such a low amount. But they might tell you to just not file. It's ridiculous that we can't just get the TIN online.

[NoDisplayName]

Has anyone tried to apply for a TIN other than the office responsible for the area where they reside?

 

It's "common knowledge" that because we file in person at one specific location, then you may only apply for a TIN at that one specific location, however, that seems to apply only to juristic persons.

 

According to the RD website, 

 

Nevertheless, if he is an individual, he may also file the application at any area revenue office or area revenue branch office, regardless of where he is domiciled.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/21987.html

[Ben Zioner]

On 3/14/2025 at 8:07 AM, roobaa01 said:

The officer came up with THB 5000 in income tax. I disputed the amount for I pointed out I'm pensioner 65 plus hence to be entitled to at least tax rebates THB 560k. That was denied for I was advised that also the 800 k are taxable? I left advising I would seek a second opinion.

 

 

I find this interesting as in your case the THB 5000 would still be less that the 7.5k charged by [the likes of] Expat Tax Thailand to do a simple tax return.

 

But as I am a good citizen, I'd still go for the latter, with the hope that I'd contribute to the education of TRD staff.

[Ben Zioner]

On 3/28/2025 at 1:56 PM, TheAppletons said:

 

 

Thans I saved it in my tax folder, I'll use it if I get audited or if Immigration asks for it.

[Ben Zioner]

On 3/4/2025 at 9:33 PM, KhunHeineken said:

I would suggest, when Thailand's tax bill is significantly greater than living in another country for 6 months, then Thailand no longer represents a value for money retirement destination, and one should consider spending 6 months of the year in another country. 

Totally, and as Don Chipp would have said "to keep the basturds honest".

[flexomike]

On 3/28/2025 at 12:30 PM, kiwikeith said:

My Thai wife just bought a house with money transferred from sale of overseas property that was legally half hers, I have the tax papers saying it was exempt from capital gain because of how long we owned it.

I went with her to change the Chanut and put it in her name only, they demanded my passport and a copy of the marriage certificate in Thai and I had to sign some papers, I think this was to do with Tax and where she got the money but they would not say when asked.

Legally the money is free from tax as it is not earnings and the NZ govt has signed off on that, I wonder what may happen, NZ has a double tax agreement so should be ok, any comments welcome.

You had to sign some paper that would have indicated you have no claim to the land as it cannot be owned by a foreigner and also if I remember right that it was not your money she bought the land with.

[Ricardo]

FWIW one more experience, I went to my local tax-office outside Chiang Mai a week ago, and played old (which often helps, here) & stupid but willing, saying (well, it was true !) that my overseas-bank wanted to know my Thai T.I.N., so that they could send year-end information about me to Thailand.

 

They didn't speak much English, I (of course) don't poot much Thai, either.

 

They asked if I was married to a Thai, "Yes".

 

Did I live in my wife's house, "Yes".

 

They then asked did I have the house-papers, "Not with me, and anyway I'm not on them".

 

Did I have a copy of my marriage-certificate, "Not with me, Sorry".

 

At this point she spoke to her senior-officer, made a brief phone-call, took copies of my passport & visa & recent  sole-name/offshore bank-statement which has my Thai residential-address.

 

Then punched my details into her computer, made me sign her book of newly-issued TINs, and handed me what I wanted  ...  a simple certificate (3-inches square)  showing my name/address/new T.I.N !

 

I thanked her profusely, lots of wai-ing, and made my retreat.

 

At no time was I asked-for, or did I offer, to make an annual-return for 2024.  Which would anyway have shown, that my local bank-interest & transfers-into-Thailand fell a few-thousand Baht short, of owing them any income-tax, for the year !

 

Result !