Tax files

[digger70]

Just now, Will B Good said:

 

No it is not.

 

The State pension is not taxed at source and everyone who pays enough NIC's qualifies.

 

The government pension is paid to government employees only.....teachers, doctors, nurses.....taxed at source and is nothing to do with the State pension per se.

 

The fact that both are paid by the government does not mean they are both government pensions......one is the State pension and one is a government pension.

Well, Our Government pension gets paid to Everyone From Unemployed to disability and age people  so Leave it like that ok .

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, digger70 said:

Well, Our Government pension gets paid to Everyone From Unemployed to disability and age people  so Leave it like that ok .

 

Well, our Age pension gets paid to Everyone From Unemployed to disability and age people............. and people who were employed by the government get a government pension. So leave it like that okay.

 

You can't have the same word for two entirely different things when discussing tax affairs.

[newbee2022]

16 minutes ago, alanrchase said:

So your OP was half a story. Mention pensions but not income. 

???

[newbee2022]

15 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

Presumably they are simply taking a government pension, paid to employees of the government, as the equivalent to company or private pension.

 

It simplifies matters to put all types of pension into just one of two groups.

 

Regardless, it is a matter of fact that a State pension is not a government pension, which started this mini-thread.

Give me a break. 😍We're taking about Thailand.

[digger70]

7 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

Well, our Age pension gets paid to Everyone From Unemployed to disability and age people............. and people who were employed by the government get a government pension. So leave it like that okay.

 

You can't have the same word for two entirely different things when discussing tax affairs.

Wel for Us Aussies there is only One word . Makes it easy don't it , especially  for Tax purpose.

[Will B Good]

8 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Give me a break. 😍We're taking about Thailand.

 

So not about pensions remitted from abroad?

[Will B Good]

3 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Wel for Us Aussies there is only One word . Makes it easy don't it , especially  for Tax purpose.

 

I agree.....it is the same in the UK...."a government pension is a state pension".....but it's not, and not many people understand the importance of distinguishing between a state pension and a government pension.....certainly for this topic of taxes at least.

 

Let's leave it there.

[newbee2022]

48 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

So not about pensions remitted from abroad?

I repeat my experience: the tax officer told me state pensions are free. Private are not.

[Will B Good]

1 hour ago, newbee2022 said:

I repeat my experience: the tax officer told me state pensions are free. Private are not.

 

...and a government pension?

[newbee2022]

14 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

...and a government pension?

In Thailand are only 2 pensions relevant. Private and state pensions. 

[Will B Good]

4 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

In Thailand are only 2 pensions relevant. Private and state pensions. 

 

So I can bring my UK government pension into Thailand (leaving my State and private pensions in the UK) and as the Thais don't have a category for that type of pension it will be tax free....bonus....cheers.

[newbee2022]

14 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

So I can bring my UK government pension into Thailand (leaving my State and private pensions in the UK) and as the Thais don't have a category for that type of pension it will be tax free....bonus....cheers.

That's what I've been told 

[TheAppletons]

25 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

In Thailand are only 2 pensions relevant. Private and state pensions. 

 

  Not accurate. (I suspect it depends upon which DTA you reference.)

 

  The US/Thailand DTA specifically mentions "government service" pensions and "other similar public pensions".

 

  "Subject to the provisions of paragraph 2 of Article 21 (Government Service), pensions and other similar remuneration paid to a resident of a Contracting State in consideration of past employment shall be taxable only in that State.

 

Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1, social security benefits and other similar public pensions paid by a Contracting State to a resident of the other Contracting State or a citizen of the United States shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State."

 

https://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/u-s-thai-tax-treaty-pensions-and-social-security-payments-article-20/#:~:text=Article 20%3A Pensions and Social Security Payments&text=Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph,in the first-mentioned State.

 

  

[newbee2022]

18 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

 

  Not accurate. (I suspect it depends upon which DTA you reference.)

 

  The US/Thailand DTA specifically mentions "government service" pensions and "other similar public pensions".

 

  "Subject to the provisions of paragraph 2 of Article 21 (Government Service), pensions and other similar remuneration paid to a resident of a Contracting State in consideration of past employment shall be taxable only in that State.

 

Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1, social security benefits and other similar public pensions paid by a Contracting State to a resident of the other Contracting State or a citizen of the United States shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State."

 

https://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/u-s-thai-tax-treaty-pensions-and-social-security-payments-article-20/#:~:text=Article 20%3A Pensions and Social Security Payments&text=Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph,in the first-mentioned State.

 

  

For me it was important what I heard in the tax office. I finished it today: mo taxes. For me it worked.

If you don't agree...go to your tax office.😳

[newbee2022]

24 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

That's what I've been told 

 

1 minute ago, newbee2022 said:

For me it was important what I heard in the tax office. I finished it today: mo taxes. For me it worked.

If you don't agree...go to your tax office.😳

I did it successful: no taxes

[Presnock]

3 hours ago, Will B Good said:

 

No it is not.

 

The State pension is not taxed at source and everyone who pays enough NIC's qualifies.

 

The government pension is paid to government employees only.....teachers, doctors, nurses.....taxed at source and is nothing to do with the State pension per se.

 

The fact that both are paid by the government does not mean they are both government pensions......one is the State pension and one is a government pension.

DTA's usually can protect a pension if taxes are already taken out prior to annuity sent..  I red that some state pensions are not taxed by their country - these most likely will be taxed by Thailand and they will say " tax credits" can be issued to protect one from double taxation.  That is why DTA's must be carefully read and full understanding of what the TRD will determine if they want.  The TRD lawyer I heard on the expat interview said that untaxed pensions should be declared, and taxes filed, let the TRD determine if any tax should be paid or not.  They sid documentation as proof of any income source should be retaind by the expats.

[Presnock]

31 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

For me it was important what I heard in the tax office. I finished it today: mo taxes. For me it worked.

If you don't agree...go to your tax office.😳

Until all the"dust" settles and the TRD gets the final chats of all the officers, then the field offices will be advised of the determination about what is and isn't taxable.  The lawyer said if anyone has any doubt about what is assessable they they should go to the revenue department webb site and read the document - available in English or Thai.

[TheAppletons]

52 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

For me it was important what I heard in the tax office. I finished it today: mo taxes. For me it worked.

If you don't agree...go to your tax office.😳

 

  Good for you, Skippy.  

 

  I have no need to visit a Thai tax office as I'm not required to file a tax return.  Run along now, m'kay?  

[newbee2022]

11 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

 

  Good for you, Skippy.  

 

  I have no need to visit a Thai tax office as I'm not required to file a tax return.  Run along now, m'kay?  

Me too. Just to confirm I did it.

[newbee2022]

29 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Until all the"dust" settles and the TRD gets the final chats of all the officers, then the field offices will be advised of the determination about what is and isn't taxable.  The lawyer said if anyone has any doubt about what is assessable they they should go to the revenue department webb site and read the document - available in English or Thai.

Easier to go to the office. They are very friendly, speaking English if required and can explain. No lawyer involved.

[MangoKorat]

9 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

If you have a low income in 2024 you don't need to have a tax ID and don't need to fill in the tax form.

Well I'm no expert but I'd rather hear that from the horses mouth - actually, in writing.  I doubt Mr Turner and his mates will recompense you, should you fall foul in years to come and end up with back taxes or worse.

 

9 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

Also it only considers the income remitted to Thailand.

For now.

[newbee2022]

1 minute ago, MangoKorat said:

Well I'm no expert but I'd rather hear that from the horses mouth - actually, in writing.  I doubt Mr Turner and his mates will recompense you, should you fall foul in years to come and end up with back taxes or worse.

 

For now.

Yes, for now, means for 2024.

[MangoKorat]

It seems the tax allowances I'd read about previously may not be quite as generous. The additonal allowance you get when you reach 65 may actually be a tax exemption on net income up to 190,000 per tax year and only if you are disabled.  Some sites say over 65 OR disabled - some say over 65 AND disabled.

[topt]

3 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

It seems the tax allowances I'd read about previously may not be quite as generous. The additonal allowance you get when you reach 65 may actually be a tax exemption on net income up to 190,000 per tax year and only if you are disabled.  Some sites say over 65 OR disabled - some say over 65 AND disabled.

Care to quote your source for the "over 65 and disabled" version?

[NoDisplayName]

On 1/20/2025 at 9:57 PM, Guavaman said:

 

This is the second report of a tax office providing the document titled: Case: Taxation of Foreigners; this time from Chiang Mai, while the first report did not mention the province.

 

This might indicate that this document with these instructions are the RD's handout provided to the local tax offices for distribution to foreign tax payers.  Could this be the long-awaited (by some) additional details provided by the RD?

 

 

I'm almost certain the other mention was in the Tangled discussion, and also from Chiang Mai.

 

Rogue office?

[NoDisplayName]

6 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

In Thailand are only 2 pensions relevant. Private and state pensions. 

 

Read your DTA.  Each one is different.

 

It should specify all the pension types included - state, government, private, other.

[NoDisplayName]

4 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

It seems the tax allowances I'd read about previously may not be quite as generous. The additonal allowance you get when you reach 65 may actually be a tax exemption on net income up to 190,000 per tax year and only if you are disabled.  Some sites say over 65 OR disabled - some say over 65 AND disabled.

 

You get 190K if 65 or over.

You get 190K if disable, until you turn 65.

 

You can have one, but not both at one time.

[MangoKorat]

6 hours ago, topt said:

Care to quote your source for the "over 65 and disabled" version?

Certainly if I can find iy again.

[Mutt Daeng]

7 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

You get 190K if 65 or over.

You get 190K if disable, until you turn 65.

 

You can have one, but not both at one time.

 

2 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

Certainly if I can find iy again.

Here is a part of the PND91 tax form (2023) where it has 2 check boxes :

         Disabled taxpayer aged under 65 years old

         Taxpayer aged 65 years or older (including disabled taxpayer)

IMHO it could be worded better as

         Disabled taxpayer

         Taxpayer aged 65 years or older

So anyone who is disabled is eligible and anyone aged 65 years or over is eligible.

[newbee2022]

8 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Read your DTA.  Each one is different.

 

It should specify all the pension types included - state, government, private, other.

No