Thailand’s Destination Visa loophole that could cost you

[ryandb]

58 minutes ago, Zaphod Priest said:

 

The having to go to Immigration for an in person 90 day report after each little holiday isn't such a nice thing.

go every 90 days then, it hardly costs much to go for a weekend in Vietnam or somewhere 

[Scouse123]

1 hour ago, Sorted2024 said:

The tax law is for more than 180 days throughout a calendar year so a border bounce out and in won't help.

You must be out of the country for a total of 185 days in a calendar year.

 

That wasn't the point.

 

The thread was about DTV and going to immigration to extend it at the immigration office, as opposed to leaving the country and the DTV days count starting afresh.

 

Those guys could be stubborn and make a DTV extension in country difficult with requirements and documents.

 

As usual these days, tax laws got mentioned. I pointed out already in my posts above. I am not repeating myself all over again.

 

Some on this board are obsessed and turn every thread into a tax thread.

[kingstonkid]

3 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

I've said on the board all I will have to say about tax.

 

I honestly have no idea about these new tax rules and what will, and will not, be implemented.

 

Furthermore, I have done my job, I have all my paperwork, I have all my incoming funds to Thailand in a hard backed file.

 

I went to the tax office, they seem to know nothing.

 

If I get a knock on the door, I have all the necessary evidence. I actually owe them bugger all.

 

My worst outcome is I get accused of not filing documents for tax purposes, and they said I should have filed.

 

In that scenario, I immediately, backed up by my spouse, show the amount of times I have tried to understand what is going on and been told my by local tax office........ Don't call us, we'll call you!

 

If they have made an error or cock up at their end, I am damn sure in this land of comprises, we will come to an agreement.

 

 

If you owe nothing, then why not just submit the paperwork and get it done?  Honestly, if they can figure out how to use the tax form for the immigration funds, it might be a good thing, LOL.  Then again TIT

 

DON'T YOU NEED TO HAVE TAX SUBMISSIONS FOR PERM RES

[Captain Flack]

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[SunsetT]

4 hours ago, Kerryd said:

Always a laugh when you hear about different Immigration offices having their own sets of rules and procedures, different from every other office.

But if you do a border run on Day 179, "leaving" Thailand and then re-entering an hour (or less) later - does that count as not being "tax resident" ?

It would look a little off if you "left" the country on 1 Feb and "entered" the country on 1 Feb and then claimed you are not "tax resident" because you were only in the country for 179 days.

(Maybe why Canada uses 183 days to determine if someone is "deemed resident for tax purposes" ?)

No. Even if you stay out one night and return on day 180, You're still in Thailand for 180 days and therefore liable for tax. You must stay out for at least two nights to lose a day.

 

Canada is just being logical because 6 months, i.e., half a year is 183 days not 180.

[Zaphod Priest]

1 hour ago, couchpotato said:

Rubbish..do it 'online'..

Rubbish.  The first 90 day report after entering Thailand can't be done online.  To quote from the rejection email I got earlier this year:
 

Quote

"For first-time requests of a 90-day notification in each country visit, in-person presentation at the immigration office is required."

 

[redwood1]

2 hours ago, flexomike said:

it is not consecutive days, it is the total amount of days in the country for one year. So if you are on a DTV you do an in and out and your total number of days in the country for the  year is 180 or more you are a tax resident

 

Sir if you get the DTV in June and you do a border run Dec 31 and come back January 1 its not the same calendar year...

[ChaiyaTH]

53 minutes ago, ryandb said:

go every 90 days then, it hardly costs much to go for a weekend in Vietnam or somewhere 

Depends where you live, it used to be easy fly CM to Hanoi too with multiple daily flights while now it seems to only be airasia once a day and easily costs you 10,000 baht round trip excl visa, taxi, hotel etc. 

 

Started to think they do this intentional to avoid even more going there.

[redwood1]

34 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

That wasn't the point.

 

The thread was about DTV and going to immigration to extend it at the immigration office, as opposed to leaving the country and the DTV days count starting afresh.

 

Those guys could be stubborn and make a DTV extension in country difficult with requirements and documents.

 

As usual these days, tax laws got mentioned. I pointed out already in my posts above. I am not repeating myself all over again.

 

Some on this board are obsessed and turn every thread into a tax thread.

 

Hey bored retired expats got tired of talking about who has the best pizza...And their new hobby is endless talking in pointless circles on the tax threads...lol

[Scouse123]

10 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

Hey bored retired expats got tired of talking about who has the best pizza...And their new hobby is endless talking in pointless circles on the tax threads...lol

 

Definitely right.

 

Thanks for that, cheered me up.

[Scouse123]

49 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

If you owe nothing, then why not just submit the paperwork and get it done?  Honestly, if they can figure out how to use the tax form for the immigration funds, it might be a good thing, LOL.  Then again TIT

 

DON'T YOU NEED TO HAVE TAX SUBMISSIONS FOR PERM RES

 

 

I did say I went, and the local tax office were extremely relaxed and told me not to bother.

 

So, they obviously are not getting the MEMO.

 

I didn't understand your post in capitals, as I don't have permanent residency.

 

I have a retirement extension based on a Non - O,

 

I now also have a DTV.

 

My intention, is not to renew my retirement extension or multi entry permit.

 

On expiry, I will leave and re-enter on my DTV, which is now valid until January 2030.

[flexomike]

37 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

Sir if you get the DTV in June and you do a border run Dec 31 and come back January 1 its not the same calendar year...

wow you are a rocket scientist, thank you for the usless info

[flexomike]

22 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

 

I did say I went, and the local tax office were extremely relaxed and told me not to bother.

 

So, they obviously are not getting the MEMO.

 

I didn't understand your post in capitals, as I don't have permanent residency.

 

I have a retirement extension based on a Non - O,

 

I now also have a DTV.

 

My intention, is not to renew my retirement extension or multi entry permit.

 

On expiry, I will leave and re-enter on my DTV, which is now valid until January 2030.

So for my understanding you will now be spending less than 180 days in Thailand total for a calendar year?

[8OA8]

25 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

 

I did say I went, and the local tax office were extremely relaxed and told me not to bother.

 

So, they obviously are not getting the MEMO.

 

I didn't understand your post in capitals, as I don't have permanent residency.

 

I have a retirement extension based on a Non - O,

 

I now also have a DTV.

 

My intention, is not to renew my retirement extension or multi entry permit.

 

On expiry, I will leave and re-enter on my DTV, which is now valid until January 2030.

Are the Non-O and DTV both in the same passport?

[kimothai]

6 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

It just isn't a big deal to do a border hop every six months, it's actually a pleasure for me.

Maybe so now if things have gotten better.  I did a border run (about 12 years ago via a visa company) and it was one of the most horrific experiences of life: a driver who thought he was a formula one driver that assumed there was no oncoming when passing on blind curves.  Maybe those visa runs have become safer since my experience and as you say, "no big deal".

[DonniePeverley]

The visa has a high chance of being abused. 

 

I know many indians and Chinese who are getting this visa and just using fake documents that the embassy accept. 

 

THIS VISA IS WRECKLESS. Open source for criminals. 

[Donald Bright]

Blue books have been mentioned.

Blue books are for Thai's,  Yellow books are for expats who qualify for them.

I have had a retirement visa for 14yrs, + a yellow book and pink ID card.

Never had any problems.

[JimboJ]

3 hours ago, jimn said:

What's this? As far as I know, a blue book is for Thai citizens only. How can this be a condition on extending.

I got a blue book by going to city hall in Pattaya.

[gargamon]

Since I started coming to Thailand in 2021 I've never been in the country for more than 6 months at a time. That would be so boring. I'm getting a DTV next time I'm in Canada in March.

[JoeRan]

2 hours ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

do you drive 100+ km to get there?

No I don’t but option 2 is doing it online. 

[uksmdh]

6 hours ago, Kerryd said:

Always a laugh when you hear about different Immigration offices having their own sets of rules and procedures, different from every other office.

But if you do a border run on Day 179, "leaving" Thailand and then re-entering an hour (or less) later - does that count as not being "tax resident" ?

It would look a little off if you "left" the country on 1 Feb and "entered" the country on 1 Feb and then claimed you are not "tax resident" because you were only in the country for 179 days.

(Maybe why Canada uses 183 days to determine if someone is "deemed resident for tax purposes" ?)

It's 180 days in any calendar year which makes you Tax Resident nothing to do with a straight run of 180 days.

[toho]

5 hours ago, UWEB said:

If you are leaving after 179 days and return the next day and it is the same Calendar year you are Tax Resident.

If you are leaving AFTER 179 days this means you leave on day 180 or later.

That automatically makes you a Thai tax resident. You have to be out of Thailand day 179 at the latest.

[toho]

5 hours ago, ryandb said:

Yes, I had this debate with a visa agent (I prefer using an agent for the trip and ease of processing even though I qualify) they said fly out rather than extend at Immi and you won't need to pay tax... I said it's not 180 consecutive days it's 180+ days in a calendar year even if I left for a day a week I'd be liable to file my tax return

In my opinion it is 179+ days (so starting from 180 days), that makes you a Thai tax resident.

[CLW]

The usual Thaiger quality reporting...

[ryandb]

2 hours ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Depends where you live, it used to be easy fly CM to Hanoi too with multiple daily flights while now it seems to only be airasia once a day and easily costs you 10,000 baht round trip excl visa, taxi, hotel etc. 

 

Started to think they do this intentional to avoid even more going there.

literally not much money for anyone with the at least 500k sat in the bank

[ryandb]

7 minutes ago, toho said:

In my opinion it is 179+ days (so starting from 180 days), that makes you a Thai tax resident.

yes as soon as you hit the 180, I meant 180 and + by 180+

[thecyclist]

7 hours ago, Kerryd said:

Always a laugh when you hear about different Immigration offices having their own sets of rules and procedures, different from every other office.

But if you do a border run on Day 179, "leaving" Thailand and then re-entering an hour (or less) later - does that count as not being "tax resident" ?

It would look a little off if you "left" the country on 1 Feb and "entered" the country on 1 Feb and then claimed you are not "tax resident" because you were only in the country for 179 days.

(Maybe why Canada uses 183 days to determine if someone is "deemed resident for tax purposes" ?)

That's in all likelihood not how it works, you could then avoid being taxed by leaving the country for 5 minutes. 

It's probably going to work like the idiotic tax clearance certificate used to work ages ago, before the most enlightened Thai administration in Thai history, the Anand government, scrapped it : more than 180 days in the country in a given calendar year required you to get a tax clearance from the revenue department before exiting the country, or you would not be allowed to leave. That was quite a pain in the behind back in the eighties. 

[SbuxPlease]

Things that are 75% done in Thailand

 

- The sidewalk

- The plumbing system in my building

- The wires on the utility poles

- The escalator maintenance

- DTV visa implementation

 

Things that are 100% done in Thailand

...

 

Let's call it good and go have another beer.

 

[hhaat]

If you are working in Thailand full time, why do you want to avoid Thai income tax?  Regardless of where your employer is, or whether or not you have an employer, as long as you work, and stay full time in Thailand when doing so, for 6 months a year, then there is really no reason to avoid Thai income tax.

 

Why is this a concern at all?

 

It is a concern only if Thailand decides to tax your savings.  But so far, there is no indication it is going to do so.  Remember, your pension is your savings, not your income.  Though this may be different in some countries where your pension is actually not your savings, but somebody else' current tax payment.

[black tabby12345]

The much-hyped Destination Thailand Visa (DTV) is proving to be more of a bureaucratic headache than a dream ticket. While Bangkok Immigration (Division 1) has published criteria for extending the visa by six months, these guidelines aren’t binding on provincial offices, leaving holders navigating a minefield of uncertainty.

------------------------------------------------------------

 

Thai bureaucrats' Empty Pride & Public Stance demonstrated again.

 

When the government does something 'Too Nice' for aliens, they feel Obliged to Do Some Form of Harassment to spoil their joy (simply to show They Are There).

 

Or they do it for their expectation for Kick-Backs  under the table in Brown Envelops from the Visa Broker?

 

The kind of scenario I can easily imagine:

Individual application for its extension: May be Denied.

But different story if Visa Agent comes between them(foreigners and immigration office).

 

Just like China's military,  Thai immigration often runs on Unspoken Profit Motive.