My Thai Tax Office Tax Filing Experience...

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

I have considered this, yes. But concerned it might get flagged (this year especially with the revised rule on remittances) and then referred to the provincial RD to review. 

 

No problems with 3 late filings last July, or this year's filing a few weeks ago.

 

I did get a request for marriage certificate (joint filing), and the bank withholding statement.  Uploaded those yesterday.  I expect a refund letter in a couple weeks.

[samtam]

5 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

See instructions for PN90, page 39:

 

No. 11 item 13. Withholding tax credit and tax credit for tax paid in accordance with ภ.ง.ด. 93 and
ภ.ง.ด. 94

~~~

Other items may also be used as a tax credit, such as:
1. Income tax that you have paid using ภ.ง.ด. 94 (half year filing).
2. Income tax that you have paid using ภ.ง.ด. 93 (advanced filing).
3. Dividend tax credit (only in the case that you have filled in No. 3 item 5. and item 6. The amount is the same amount in No. 3 item 6.
Please add up all the creditable tax in No. 11 item 15. This amount will then be deducted from your tax payable in No. 11 item 14. You will have to provide documents to the Revenue Department to prove the amount of withholding tax.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/2023/GUIDE_90_66_Complete.pdf

 

I enter my info online, then upload my bank withholding statement, and my dividend receipts showing tax withheld.  Withholding tax is refunded.  (All Thai-sourced for me, of course)

 

4 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

No.

PN 93 is half year tax filing, PN 94 additional child allowance.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/65308.html

 

Many thanks.

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, OneManShow said:

That could be a future problem for expats as it has been mentioned in the tax guide provided by an AN post. 
I was told the same at a tax office, however the big boss of the office had no clue regarding foreign tax return and how DTA works.

I was advised by the head, file but don't pay any tax since you are from DTA country. 

 

Note that according to the handout produced by Chiang Mai TRD, you may have your salary certificate authenticated by the Thai embassy in Thailand.

[samtam]

53 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Three separate years, three separate returns.  You can file all three anytime this year, but after March the 2024 will be late.  Late fee is 200 baht, but is only charged one time.  You can pay by bank transfer from within the online system.

 

 

3 separate PND90s in 2024....1) for 2022 2) for 2023 3) for 2024, this including tax assessable under new interpretation ?

[JimHuaHin]

19 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Thank you for sharing this. However in your case it appears your remittances were assessable, even though no tax due.

 

For people like myself whose remittances are all  non-assessable , most reports from tax offices say not to file.  Which does not jibe with "must file if a tax resident". 

 

Further,  there is no way on the current tax forms to indicate non-assessable income. 

Unfortunately, yet again, we are in a situation where the official policy is do A, but the (local) official's advice is that one does not need to do A.

 

So what do we do?   Take a gamble and follow the (local) official's advice, or follow policy?

 

A British friend in Hua Hin who remitted "a few hundred thousand Baht" (his words) into Thailand in 2024, went to the local revenue office last week - he explained his situation, and was told that as he did not work in Thailand, no need for a Thai TIN, no need to file a tax return.

[Happy happy]

Wingnut : Thank you for sharing your experience.

As others have confirmed and what I was told by a Thai tax specialist:

No need to get a TIn or file a return if income is NOT assessable.

[SunsetT]

17 hours ago, chang50 said:

Disclaimer this is not tax advice just my recent experience.In my case I went to Jomtien to get a TIN and ended up unexpectedly filing a tax return as I had a yearly bank statement with me detailing all my remittances to Thailand which actually saved me a return trip and I ended up paying a very small amount of tax. I had remitted money to Thailand from my UK pensions one private which I had paid tax on in the UK and my old age pension.However they refused to even consider the Thai UK dta which I thought would have reduced my liability to zero giving me the impression it was better not to argue.They also dismissed one debit card purchase from a UK bank.I suspect just like immigration offices policies will vary from office to office or even between individual officers.I left with mixed emotions glad to have the experience over with but also feeling my case was possibly not properly dealt with.

I have seen a chart on here of the Thai DTA's with all countries, and the UK DTA strangely  and unfairly, I think, does not cover state pensions when it does cover government employee pensions and private pensions. 

[Raindancer]

1 hour ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Note that according to the handout produced by Chiang Mai TRD, you may have your salary certificate authenticated by the Thai embassy in Thailand.

A Thai Embassy in Thailand?

[NoDisplayName]

23 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

3 separate PND90s in 2024....1) for 2022 2) for 2023 3) for 2024, this including tax assessable under new interpretation ?

 

When you file online, you have a dropdown menu to select one of three years.

 

If you file 2022 and 2023, you would file under the rules in force at the time............i believe.  File 2024 according to the new interpretation of the rules now in effect.

 

In reality, there is no change yet.  All of these years require declaring current year assessable income, but prior year income is exempt.

 

It's only in 2026 when filing a 2025 return that the change will be effective, as income remitted in 2025 but earned in 2024 will be assessable.

 

I'm not taxspurt, so this may be incorrect.

Confirm with TRD to be safe.

[topt]

7 minutes ago, SunsetT said:

I have seen a chart on here of the Thai DTA's with all countries, and the UK DTA strangely  and unfairly, I think, does not cover state pensions when it does cover government employee pensions and private pensions. 

DTA states UK Govt. (civil service etc) pension can only be taxed in the UK.

Both private pensions and the state pension can be taxed in Thailand.

[OneManShow]

Is this the form that unemployed expats need to file ? 
 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/2023/220367PIT90.pdf

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, SunsetT said:

I have seen a chart on here of the Thai DTA's with all countries, and the UK DTA strangely  and unfairly, I think, does not cover state pensions when it does cover government employee pensions and private pensions. 

Australia's DTA is the same.  It covers "government service pensions" not the old age pension.  

[WingNut]

15 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

This fortunately is one of the few areas that has been clearly defined.  Savings prior to Jan 01,2024 is non-assessable.  There are questions as to how that would be interpreted in relation to brokerage accounts, but if you have an actual savings account with a balance shown on a Dec 2023 statement, you're golden.

 

That sounds very promising, but it still seems risky. Once the money is transferred in, if they reject whatever form of statement is provided, it may be too late, and the tax would have to be paid. Personally, I wouldn’t take that risk, especially since I’m not planning any large purchases in the foreseeable future. However, for those who need to do it, I imagine they’ll give it a try. Hopefully, it works out for them. We may hear stories in the future about failed attempts to avoid taxation on large sums brought in as prior savings.

[WingNut]

15 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

Yes, but now you're planning to intentionally file an incorrect return.  What happens if your return is chosen at random for audit?  How do you answer why you only declared enough of your remittances to be under the taxable limit?

 

That would send up the red smart flags, indicate tax evasion, and would potentially trigger a 5-year audit.

 

Yes, that definitely seems like a possibility. However, not filing at all could also create issues later on, as we’ve discussed. It’s certainly a tough decision for anyone in that situation.

[WingNut]

8 hours ago, rocketboy2 said:

This thread and other threads has now convinced me to

just spend down savings already in Thailand for one more year. ( will bring in 120,000  max )

There is just so many inconsistences with different revenue offices  at present.

Its Just a huge mess.  will look again in 2026.

TIT.

 

Good idea. that’s essentially my plan as well for now, at least until we see how things unfold over the next year.

 

When you say you’ll only bring in a maximum of 120,000, is there a specific reason for that amount? I believe the first 150,000 is already tax-exempt, plus you would have a personal allowance on top of that.

[WingNut]

8 hours ago, HappyExpat57 said:

Sh!t.

US tax ID is my social security number. Like I'm gonna give THAT to any Thai.

 

In the United States, several laws and regulations require individuals to provide their Social Security Number (SSN) when opening a foreign (overseas) bank account, particularly when they are U.S. persons (citizens, residents, or entities). These laws primarily include:

 

1. Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) – 2010 - Law: 26 U.S.C. § 6038D and Internal Revenue Code (IRC) § 1471-1474

 

What It Does: FATCA requires foreign financial institutions (FFIs) to identify U.S. account holders and report their account details to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). Why Your SSN Is Required: U.S. persons (citizens, green card holders, residents) must provide their SSN or Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) so that foreign banks can report their financial information to the IRS. Non-compliance may lead to withholding penalties or account restrictions.

[WingNut]

7 hours ago, Andycoops said:

Thanks Wingnut, I plan on doing my filing next month and was going to include my bank statements in case they asked for them.

 

You're welcome. I think including bank statements is a great idea and that is why I am doing it, even though it isn't compulsory. From my conversations with the TRD, I got the impression that when you submit a tax return, they expect to see supporting documents along with it. If you simply declare an income amount without any presenting documentation, there could be questions later about the source and how the figure was determined. This is standard for any tax filing in general. So, if you don’t include supporting documents with your return, you may be opening the door to potential scrutiny down the line. 

[WingNut]

5 hours ago, Moonlover said:

To my knowledge, no one in the TRD has indicated that failure to submit a tax return could result in problems with visas/extensions.

 

That’s absolutely correct, but the future remains uncertain. If fewer than 50% of foreign residents aren’t filing an annual tax return, it seems like a natural progression to encourage compliance or at least require them to obtain a tax clearance certificate. Of course, this may never happen, and we’ll have to wait and see. However, I believe it’s wise to be prepared for that possibility, and at this point, I don’t think anyone would be surprised if such a requirement were eventually introduced.

[WingNut]

5 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I've yet to hear of a single RD aware of this.  Some have never heard of a DTA, period. Others understand only the concept of tax crefits.

 

Even in future I cannot envision provincial RDs being aware of the contents of more than 60 different DTAs. 

 

When I spoke to the woman at the TRD yesterday, I got the impression that she was aware of the existence of DTAs and had a general understanding of the major countries that have them in place. However, I can’t say how deep her knowledge on the subject extends beyond that. Since DTAs are part of Thai taxation, one would expect TRD district offices to have at least some familiarity with these agreements.

 

Presumably, DTAs are used not only by foreigners but also by Thais who have earned income abroad and paid taxes on it. So this shouldn’t be an unfamiliar topic to any TRD office, even those in rural areas. For example, migrant workers from rural provinces who work overseas in the agriculture industry may pay taxes abroad and then still need to declare that income in Thailand too in cases where they are transferring the money into Thailand.

[WingNut]

5 hours ago, OneManShow said:

That could be a future problem for expats as it has been mentioned in the tax guide provided by an AN post. 
I was told the same at a tax office, however the big boss of the office had no clue regarding foreign tax return and how DTA works.

I was advised by the head, file but don't pay any tax since you are from DTA country. 

 

Surprisingly, it seems that some TRD district offices have no knowledge of DTAs at all. Hopefully, within the next year or two, they will become more familiar with them, especially as more foreigners file tax returns for income brought into Thailand that has already been taxed overseas.

[WingNut]

5 hours ago, Jonathan Swift said:

thanks for your post. I'm sure it helps a lot of people  as a direct hands on experience

 

Thank you for your kind words. If the info is useful in some way then that is great. 🙏

[Yumthai]

4 minutes ago, WingNut said:

Presumably, DTAs are used not only by foreigners but also by Thais who have earned income abroad and paid taxes on it. So this shouldn’t be an unfamiliar topic to any TRD office, even those in rural areas. For example, migrant workers from rural provinces who work overseas in the agriculture industry may pay taxes abroad and then still need to declare that income in Thailand too in cases where they are transferring the money into Thailand.

That certainly should be an extraordinary number of people.

 

2 minutes ago, WingNut said:

Surprisingly, it seems that some TRD district offices have no knowledge of DTAs at all.

(Un)surprisingly, it seems you are not very familiar with how Thailand works.

[KhunHeineken]

7 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

(Un)surprisingly, it seems you are not very familiar with how Thailand works.

Or, how Thailand doesn't work. 

[oldestswinger]

4 hours ago, jesimps said:

got the same reply as you when I went to Jomtien Tax Office. I only went to make doubly sure that I was exempt from filing under the Thai/UK DTA. The lady I saw wasn't interested in what income I brought in, or the DTA. She asked me one question "Do you work in Thailand". When I replied in the negative, she said "Then you pay tax to your home country. Why you want to pay here too?" I left without a TIN.

The same as I got in Minburi.

[herfiehandbag]

9 hours ago, jesimps said:

Regarding the UK/Thai DTA, are you an UK ex government worker? I've been advised by a lawyer here that those in this category do not need to file in Thailand. I've read the DTA and it does state that those on a government (not state) pension ie civil servants are exempt from paying tax on it here. I welcome comments from anyone who's been advised differently.

In that case, since my income is from a state pension (paid into a Thai Bank account) and from an Army Pension paid into my UK bank account and withdrawn as required from an ATM, do I have to file?

[WingNut]

2 hours ago, Happy happy said:

Wingnut : Thank you for sharing your experience.

As others have confirmed and what I was told by a Thai tax specialist:

No need to get a TIn or file a return if income is NOT assessable.

 

Your welcome.

 

I’ve had a Thai TIN for nearly 30 years now because I used to work in Thailand for many years. It originally started as a 10-digit number, which was later changed to a 13-digit number about 10-15 years ago. Then, just yesterday, I canceled my old 13-digit TIN, and my Thai pink card number (also 13 digits) became my new TIN. So, for me, there has never been any question about whether I should have one or not, I’ve always needed one.

 

However, if you have overseas bank accounts or brokerage accounts, whether you are employed or not, you’re typically required to provide a TIN to that financial institution. If you provide your TIN from your home country but reside in Thailand, I believe you should be supplying a Thai TIN. The purpose of providing a TIN to financial institutions is that it should be tied to your country of tax residency. This means that anyone residing in Thailand for more than 180 days per year is considered a Thai tax resident and should have a Thai TIN for any overseas banking purposes.

 

I’m also surprised to hear there might be reluctance to issue a Thai TIN to some foreigners, as issuing one would be another way to bring more people into the tax system and eventually have them start paying taxes. This push to bring more people into the system seems to align with the current effort to tax residents, many of whom are foreigners, on their overseas income brought into Thailand. So any reluctance to issue one is a bit surprising.

 

I wonder what the TRD would say you have no income in Thailand, but that you reside here and need a Thai TIN for overseas banking purposes?

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, OneManShow said:

Is this the form that unemployed expats need to file ? 
 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/2023/220367PIT90.pdf

 

That PN90 would be considered the long form......(like the US standard 1040)......that covers all forms of income, "not only from employment."

 

This is where you report interest and dividends and capital gains and rental income.........AND employment income.

 

Think of the PN91 (3 pages vs. 5 pages) as the short form......(like the old US 1040-EZ)............that covers "only income from employment."

 

This one is restricted to income "derived from employment," which would include work-related pensions.

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, WingNut said:

 

That sounds very promising, but it still seems risky. Once the money is transferred in, if they reject whatever form of statement is provided, it may be too late, and the tax would have to be paid. Personally, I wouldn’t take that risk, especially since I’m not planning any large purchases in the foreseeable future. However, for those who need to do it, I imagine they’ll give it a try. Hopefully, it works out for them. We may hear stories in the future about failed attempts to avoid taxation on large sums brought in as prior savings.

 

What documentation?

 

Pre-2024 prior savings remittances are non-assessable, not taxable, not declared on the tax return.  They are invisible to the Thai tax system.  No statements are provided nor needed.  The system is set up for the taxpayer to self-determine assessability and then self-determine need to file.  Assume the taxpayer can document if requested.

 

If for some reason you were audited and had transferred in ten million baht, you would only need to produce documentation if questioned about that specific transaction, or were asked to list your NON-assessable remittances.

 

Why volunteer unasked-for information?  PIT calculations only include assessable income.  You're providing the TRD staffer the opportunity to make a misteak that could cost you money.  Once they've decided, it's nearly impossible to get them to admit their error.  So you would have to pay the tax and then appeal in tax court.

 

I consider this my Thai Miranda rights........"You have the right to remain silent about non-assessable remittances.  Anything you submit can and will be used against you in a court of tax."

 

***OPINION ONLY, NOT ADVICE.  FOR EXTERNAL USE ONLY.***

 

 

[OneManShow]

21 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Think of the PN91 (3 pages vs. 5 pages) as the short form......(like the old US 1040-EZ)............that covers "only income from employment."

It must be this one then 🤔

 

[Sheryl]

28 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

In that case, since my income is from a state pension (paid into a Thai Bank account) and from an Army Pension paid into my UK bank account and withdrawn as required from an ATM, do I have to file?

By my reading of the UK - Thai DTA, your army pension is non-assessable in Thailand (can only be taxed in UK) but the UK state old age pension is assessable in Thailand.  So yes, to my understanding you should file, but only for the state pension income, and once the various exemptions & deductions are claimed, good chance you won't owe much if anything in tax. There is a personal exemption of 60,000 baht (120k if married and filing jointly), and if you are over 65 there is another 190,000 deduction. I have also heard, but you should veriify, that 50% of pension income up to a maximum of 100k is also exempt. Then, after all these exemptions/deductions are applied, no tax is owed o nthe first 150k. Consequently with UK state pension as your only assessable income you'd likely owe no tax.

 

You can claim a tax credit for any taxes paid in UK (don't ask me how, from this thread it seems the promised adjustment ot tax forms to include this has nto occurred). The tax credit is only relevant if you would otherwise owe taxes.