Canadian Embassy to discontinue income affidavit notary service April 1st, 2025

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

I tried the income method for one year, found it to be a major PITA. Not worth the aggravation for the sake of not keeping 800 K on deposit.

To each their own.

I did it (change to income method) for couple of reasons.

 

1. Long term partner (not married)

 The transfers hit my bank #14 of every month and are transferred instantly into "wife" account. 

There is zero (basically) funds in my account. 

No need for probate , Will etc.

 

2. The opportunity cost. The 800k will earn approx 7-8% in my super fund. 

 

 

[Lacessit]

Just now, DrJack54 said:

To each their own.

I did it (change to income method) for couple of reasons.

 

1. Long term partner (not married)

 The transfers hit my bank #14 of every month and are transferred instantly into "wife" account. 

There is zero (basically) funds in my account. 

No need for probate , Will etc.

 

2. The opportunity cost. The 800k will earn approx 7-8% in my super fund. 

 

 

Your super fund will be taxed at anywhere between 15% and 30% when you die, depending on the nature of contributions you have made in the past.

 

It's why I closed my SMSF, every cent is outside the reach of the taxman.

[jerrymahoney]

I had a 30 second chat with the US Consular official at the last-go-round Embassy Outreach - Khon Kaen before the letters stopped.

He said the letters were being stopped by the US Embassy for mostly 2 reasons:

The Embassy realizes that many US citizens falsely claim their 65K baht monthly income and,

It came as great surprise to Thai Immigration when they realized that the US Embassy was not, in fact, certifying that the US citizen's sworn statement was true by some evidentiary method.

[RoninTech]

37 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

That is unfair.  What is your solution? How do you expect the Canadian consulate to verify the income statement? It does not have access to annual CRA filings and it does not have access to the person's bank accounts. What's your methodology to allow the  consulate to issue an accurate declaration?

It's easy to login to CRA website in front of them and show the embassy/consulate your income.  Exactly how many Thai embassies and consulates already do when issuing visas.  I just timed it and it took me 45 seconds to login to CRA and pull up the income page.  So they can easily verify our income like this.  Must be another reason why they stopped.

[Moonlover]

14 minutes ago, RoninTech said:

It's easy to login to CRA website in front of them and show the embassy/consulate your income.  Exactly how many Thai embassies and consulates already do when issuing visas.  I just timed it and it took me 45 seconds to login to CRA and pull up the income page.  So they can easily verify our income like this.  Must be another reason why they stopped.

 

As has just been pointed out above:

 

22 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

The (US) Embassy realizes that many US citizens falsely claim their 65K baht monthly income

 

Are you suggesting that all Canadians citizens are honest?

[Sydebolle]

What a joke all this is. Thais trust only other government sources - for good reason seeing how their own people turn and bend literally anything anywhere. 
To provide proof of income/pension, the semi-divine Thai authorities will have to deal with the paperwork they get from the pension paying authority in faraway lands which might come in English, French, Spanish, Italian, Greek, Mongolian or Bhutanese - for all I care. 

Can you imagine what it would take to get the same crowd of Thai experts to plough through all that paperwork on their ill-gotten idea of taxing retirees on their entire income worldwide ....... without the local diplomatic mission of the applicant rubber-stamping the paperwork? And that does not include the countless, differently worded double taxation treaties. 

Good luck to all those goons at the Thai immigration - or maybe it is just yet another doing away à la mode de "mai pen rai"? 

[jerrymahoney]

25 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Are you suggesting that all Canadians citizens are honest?

I was just relaying a conversation with a US Consular official.

[perconrad]

21 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

You have those two options.

Last line of my copy/paste....

"The embassy's practice of issuing income affidavits was informal and not regulated"

 

Somewhat related....I was at a gig and senior Oz woman that works at AU embassy was there...

So I asked "why did embassy stop providing income letters" 

She stated that they never should have been dealing with statutory declarations as they are are only valid for use in Oz.

Think USA called them affidavits.

 

Goes back to the point that embassies cannot verify the statements 

 

I am Danish and my embassy also stopped issuing income letters when other embassies did.

 

But the Danish embassy opened up again and now want that we get our pensions providers in Denmark to send the pensions income letters directly to the embassy, the letters shall be written in English.

The embassy then sign and stamp the letters and send them by post to the pensioner,  the embassy charge about thb 1000 pr letter and thb 40 for EMS post.

 

We can also have the embassy to write an income letter if the pensions providers send the income letters in Danish, but that cost thb 5000.

[RoninTech]

29 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

 

As has just been pointed out above:

 

 

Are you suggesting that all Canadians citizens are honest?

I'm not following how my post relates to anyone's honesty?

[300sd]

1 hour ago, Patong2021 said:

 

That is unfair.  What is your solution? How do you expect the Canadian consulate to verify the income statement? It does not have access to annual CRA filings and it does not have access to the person's bank accounts. What's your methodology to allow the  consulate to issue an accurate declaration?

Since when has the Canadian consulate needed to verify the income statement?

 

Their income letter to the Thai immigration says: in paraphrase, that "according to the clients affidavit and supporting documents, he/she receives x amount per month for visa renewal. They also confirm the passport (that had to be notarized if not in attendance) is valid. They also state that: "the Gov't of Canada accepts no responsibility or liability for the above named individual!"

So show me where they have to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that these papers from the client are accurate? If they are not accurate the letter has covered their liability. So like I said, they can't be bothered anymore and they think we are dumb enough to believe their excuse.

[NorthernRyland]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Just pointing out that you can still do income method without letter. 

65k/month  is pretty modest amount to live off. 

Just curious, do they check to make sure you didn't withdrawal the money in the same month? If you don't use the full 65k can you just top it off the next month or do they need to see a fresh 65k every month and no withdrawals? 

[RoninTech]

2 minutes ago, 300sd said:

Since when has the Canadian consulate needed to verify the income statement?

 

Their income letter to the Thai immigration says: in paraphrase, that "according to the clients affidavit and supporting documents, he/she receives x amount per month for visa renewal. They also confirm the passport (that had to be notarized if not in attendance) is valid. They also state that: "the Gov't of Canada accepts no responsibility or liability for the above named individual!"

So show me where they have to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that these papers from the client are accurate? If they are not accurate the letter has covered their liability. So like I said, they can't be bothered anymore and they think we are dumb enough to believe their excuse.

And as I mentioned above we could in 1 minute easily login in front of them and show them via the Canada Revenue Agency website what our income is.  Unless they think we can hack the government website?

 

Not sure what the reason they are stopping is but it's not because they can't be sure of the info.

[DrJack54]

18 minutes ago, perconrad said:

I am Danish and my embassy also stopped issuing income letters when other embassies did.

Correct.

Attached is a lazy 21 page thread re Danish embassy announcement in 2018.

 

In any event if I was Danish I would NOT bother with the embassy letter and cost.

Rather just have in place ,12 months of transfers and use income method without embassy letter. 

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, NorthernRyland said:

Just curious, do they check to make sure you didn't withdrawal the money in the same month? If you don't use the full 65k can you just top it off the next month or do they need to see a fresh 65k every month and no withdrawals? 

That wouldn't work.

The 65k + monthly transfer has to be shown to come from abroad.

 

If not coded correctly in bank book or statements then credit advice would be required. 

[NorthernRyland]

3 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

That wouldn't work.

The 65k + monthly transfer has to be shown to come from abroad.

 

If not coded correctly in bank book or statements then credit advice would be required. 

yes I mean all the transfers from abroad. So you transfer 65k one month, use 40k then transfer the remaining 25k back out. Otherwise would start to accumulate money in your Thai back account you're not using but maybe that's the point.

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

The opportunity cost. The 800k will earn approx 7-8% in my super fund. 

Yes, very good thinking even in a conservative index fund you can double it in 8 to 10 years.  And, not be concerned about fraud or closed accounts  

[DrJack54]

9 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

yes I mean all the transfers from abroad. So you transfer 65k one month, use 40k then transfer the remaining 25k back out

Getting off topic.

I would suggest that vast majority of folk would require 65k + per month.

Have read the many threads where guys almost boasting that they live off 30-40k . Great.

Point is to use income method you don't need embassy income letter. 

[Patong2021]

1 hour ago, RoninTech said:

It's easy to login to CRA website in front of them and show the embassy/consulate your income.  Exactly how many Thai embassies and consulates already do when issuing visas.  I just timed it and it took me 45 seconds to login to CRA and pull up the income page.  So they can easily verify our income like this.  Must be another reason why they stopped.

 

That is not acceptable. Someone logging in is not acceptable. This isn't even acceptable for basic banking activity.  An electronic record of the activity must be retained.  This would necessitate authorizing a representative of the consulate logging in from their own  work station and accessing CRA data. Canadian privacy laws restrict access. The amount of work and effort required for a relatively small number of people does not justify the activity. And as others have stated the likelihood of dishonest and false statements  is significant. 

[Patong2021]

1 hour ago, 300sd said:

Since when has the Canadian consulate needed to verify the income statement?

 

Their income letter to the Thai immigration says: in paraphrase, that "according to the clients affidavit and supporting documents, he/she receives x amount per month for visa renewal. They also confirm the passport (that had to be notarized if not in attendance) is valid. They also state that: "the Gov't of Canada accepts no responsibility or liability for the above named individual!"

So show me where they have to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that these papers from the client are accurate? If they are not accurate the letter has covered their liability. So like I said, they can't be bothered anymore and they think we are dumb enough to believe their excuse.

 

In effect the document had no legal validity. It was a useless document that facilitated false declarations by some people. There was no reason to continue issuing a document that had no legal standing.

[kingstonkid]

12 hours ago, BrandonJT said:

I can make or edit a bank statement in 5 minutes.  How is that verification of anything? There's a reason a bunch of the SE Asian Thai embassies were requiring people to come in and open their banking app on their phone and show the live balance along with bank statements for a while.  Thailand doesn't trust foreign bank statements (as they shouldn't).

 

Funny I didn't say that the Thai government did not accept, and this thread is not about the Thai gov't  However, yes with the letter from the CDN Embassy they were more than happy to accept the Bank statements.  If we could show them online our accounts it would be a huge benefit LOL

[DrJack54]

Off topic posts removed. 

[flexomike]

5 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

Just curious, do they check to make sure you didn't withdrawal the money in the same month? If you don't use the full 65k can you just top it off the next month or do they need to see a fresh 65k every month and no withdrawals? 

you can withdraw all of the 65,000 every month but you need a new 65,000 baht international transfer every month, can not be one baht less than 65,000 baht

[DrJack54]

28 minutes ago, flexomike said:

you can withdraw all of the 65,000 every month but you need a new 65,000 baht international transfer every month, can not be one baht less than 65,000 baht

Yep 

The old chestnut of revolving door ship funds in and back is a silly idea.

It overlooks fact that you require funds to live ongoing in Thailand. 

[NorthernRyland]

8 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Yep 

The old chestnut of revolving door ship funds in and back is a silly idea.

It overlooks fact that you require funds to live ongoing in Thailand. 

 

I simply don't spend that much money in Thailand so I would either need to keep it there and collect dust or transfer it back out into some other bank.

 

I was just curious if they see this as "cheating" or not.

[DrJack54]

12 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

I was just curious if they see this as "cheating" or not.

It's not cheating. You can do that zero issue.

Read post from @flexomike above.

 

You live on 40k a month then fine.

Find it boring.

[sqwakvfr]

10 hours ago, WDSmart said:

Yes, the US Embassy did this a long time ago, maybe 15 years or so. The instructions about transferring an amount to your Thai bank account every month are correct. That's what I'm doing now.

The US Embassy ceased the Income Affidavit in 2018. 

[gamb00ler]

8 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

That is unfair.  What is your solution? How do you expect the Canadian consulate to verify the income statement? It does not have access to annual CRA filings and it does not have access to the person's bank accounts. What's your methodology to allow the  consulate to issue an accurate declaration?

I used the Canadian consulate's letter earlier this month.  I took in copies of letters from Service Canada showing both my monthly pension amounts.  I also get a US SS pension and they also provide a letter showing my benefits.

 

My solution for the Canadian Consulate to verify the pension amounts is for Service Canada to provide verification of the letter contents to the consulate.  Both organizations are part of the same government after all.

[DrJack54]

7 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

The US Embassy ceased the Income Affidavit in 2018. 

Yes already pointed out earlier few times. 

[DrJack54]

10 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

My solution for the Canadian Consulate to verify the pension amounts is for Service Canada to provide verification of the letter contents to the consulate.  Both organizations are part of the same government after all.

Your solution will not work.

Adjust to living in Thailand without embassy income letter.

fait accompli= done and dusted

[sqwakvfr]

Is Canada behind the times.  An old saying that I have heard countless times is this: "An affidavit is about as valuable as the paper it is written on".  This is similar to the saying "I only testa-lie while under oath".  The US and Great Britain both ceased to issue Income Affidavits in 2018.  So why did Canada still issue them until now? The only time an income letter has only value in terms of Thailand is when I apply for the Non OA at a Thai consulate.  An ncome lettter from my pension agency was accepted when I applied for an OA back in Jan 2024.