Tax IBKR

[Dor1212]

Hi, 

Wanted to ask if you guys know,

If I moved to Thailand from my home country, now I am only Thailand resident.

And I trade on IBKR (usa), But I will only be withdrawing profits to wise account and not into Thailand bank.

 

So, if I don't need to report to Thailand tax authorities, and I dont have any other residency, who should I report to?

Surely I will have to pay taxes on my investment profits somehow?

 

[timendres]

At this moment in time, the only "tax event" you need to be concerned about is money remitted into Thailand.

How you report the remittance depends on the "source" of the funds.

If the funds were entirely from profit, then the amount remitted to Thailand would be considered subject to Thai "income tax".

If you are a US citizen, like me, you will need to report your trading profit/loss on your US tax return.

If you have paid taxes on any moneys you remit to Thailand, then you need to refer to the DTA for your country.

For example, as a US citizen, if I remit to Thailand, and owe taxes on the remittance, I can deduct the taxes already paid to the US treasury.

You mention using Wise. However, this does not eliminate your obligation. It merely suggests that you could possibly "hide" it.

Not a solid long term strategy IMHO.

[Dor1212]

6 minutes ago, timendres said:

At this moment in time, the only "tax event" you need to be concerned about is money remitted into Thailand.

How you report the remittance depends on the "source" of the funds.

If the funds were entirely from profit, then the amount remitted to Thailand would be considered subject to Thai "income tax".

If you are a US citizen, like me, you will need to report your trading profit/loss on your US tax return.

If you have paid taxes on any moneys you remit to Thailand, then you need to refer to the DTA for your country.

For example, as a US citizen, if I remit to Thailand, and owe taxes on the remittance, I can deduct the taxes already paid to the US treasury.

You mention using Wise. However, this does not eliminate your obligation. It merely suggests that you could possibly "hide" it.

Not a solid long term strategy IMHO.

Yes I understand, that's why I'm trying to figure who do I report in this situation.
I am ONLY a Thailand resident now, non-U.S, non my home country anymore.
But I am NOT planning to bring the funds into Thailand, but into a wise account, then probably to my family in my home country (but I'm not a resident anymore so I'm not suppose to report to them either).

So i'm not sure who do I report in my situation, before I consult with an attorney I'm trying to learn from others experience.
 

[timendres]

4 minutes ago, Dor1212 said:

Yes I understand, that's why I'm trying to figure who do I report in this situation.
I am ONLY a Thailand resident now, non-U.S, non my home country anymore.
But I am NOT planning to bring the funds into Thailand, but into a wise account, then probably to my family in my home country (but I'm not a resident anymore so I'm not suppose to report to them either).

So i'm not sure who do I report in my situation, before I consult with an attorney I'm trying to learn from others experience.

 

It might help to know what your home country is.

You mentioned that your IB account is in the US.

So I assumed you are a US citizen.

[Dor1212]

It's Israel, I meant that  I trade US IBKR, since I know there are different entities or sub comapnies like IBKR UK or HK

[Everyman]

There are several threads that report that Thai tax offices are not honoring DTAs. Best to just keep up on your U.S. taxes and ignore the Thai situation unless they magically become competent.

 

It sounds like you aren’t bringing much into Thailand anyway and what you have has already been taxed, so you shouldn’t have trouble down the line if they ever grow a clue at TRD.

 

 

[ukrules]

3 hours ago, Dor1212 said:

Surely I will have to pay taxes on my investment profits somehow?

 

Sometimes not, but if you're a Thai tax resident in the year the profit was realised then when it is remitted to Thailand it will be taxable, even if it's in a future year - this is due to the recent change in the interpretation of the law.

Note that the law itself didn't actually change - they changed their mind on how it's going to be applied.

If that money never comes to Thailand then it's never going to be taxed, anywhere. This assumes you have properly ensured you are no longer a tax resident of Israel which I believe requires some paperwork - and proof of tax residency in a different country.

[Dor1212]

57 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

Sometimes not, but if you're a Thai tax resident in the year the profit was realised then when it is remitted to Thailand it will be taxable, even if it's in a future year - this is due to the recent change in the interpretation of the law.

Note that the law itself didn't actually change - they changed their mind on how it's going to be applied.

If that money never comes to Thailand then it's never going to be taxed, anywhere. This assumes you have properly ensured you are no longer a tax resident of Israel which I believe requires some paperwork - and proof of tax residency in a different country.

So, if that's true, Thai residents can always withdraw to a wise account and then send profits free of tax to their families bank accounts abroad? Isn't that too weird?
I'm basically hearing that without even trying, I've made myself a way to not pay taxes for my investment profits, it sounds too good to be true 😷 Will have to go over this with an attorney...
I really appreciate everyone's answers!
 

[ukrules]

13 minutes ago, Dor1212 said:

Isn't that too weird?

 

It's a little unusual but not uncommon in the non western world.

 

This situation arises as in Thailand they only tax you on remitted income and not on worldwide income. No remittance = no tax.

If they come looking you're going to have to show them where your money comes from and when it came from.

 

Trading in the US does have implications and there are withholding taxes and dividend taxes which may apply unless you file certain forms with the broker and / or IRS.

That's the area of concern. If you are of course remitting the income in some kind of 'around about way' indirectly then that may be considered evasion instead of avoidance.

[Dor1212]

10 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

Trading in the US does have implications and there are withholding taxes and dividend taxes which may apply unless you file certain forms with the broker and / or IRS.

That's the area of concern. If you are of course remitting the income in some kind of 'around about way' indirectly then that may be considered evasion instead of avoidance.

IBKR seem to charge the withholding\dividend taxes.
I'm not trying to "go around", I've genuinely planned to withdraw to a wise account and send abroad to family, however I also planned to pay taxes, and if that might be problematic in some way- I might just withdraw to my Thai account and pay those taxes in Thailand, I want to be free of worries. Will consult on that.

[ukrules]

2 minutes ago, Dor1212 said:

IBKR seem to charge the withholding\dividend taxes.
I'm not trying to "go around", I've genuinely planned to withdraw to a wise account and send abroad to family, however I also planned to pay taxes, and if that might be problematic in some way- I might just withdraw to my Thai account and pay those taxes in Thailand, I want to be free of worries. Will consult on that.

 

As you're a non US citizen and non US resident then you should be able to file forms to reduce the withholding tax, not sure on dividends, I think they still want a slice of that....

Anyway I would discuss it with the accountant to be sure as it can get complex pretty quickly

[motdaeng]

i'm not up to date with all the visa rules...

if you trade money, do you need a work permit and have to pay income taxes in thailand as a thai tax resident?

[Yumthai]

4 hours ago, motdaeng said:

i'm not up to date with all the visa rules...

if you trade money, do you need a work permit and have to pay income taxes in thailand as a thai tax resident?

While being physically in Thailand (tax resident and non tax resident), if you regularly trade for a living getting most of your income then it's technically considered as working in Thailand. Any profits/earnings even not remitted in Thailand (as left in the foreign broker account) should be considered as local income and declared as such.

 

However this is not enforced. AFAIK there has been no case of people trading from their laptop or phone having been checked because it's just unrealistically auditable.

[timendres]

9 hours ago, Dor1212 said:

IBKR seem to charge the withholding\dividend taxes.
I'm not trying to "go around", I've genuinely planned to withdraw to a wise account and send abroad to family, however I also planned to pay taxes, and if that might be problematic in some way- I might just withdraw to my Thai account and pay those taxes in Thailand, I want to be free of worries. Will consult on that.

 

I believe that, if you declare all remittances to Thailand, and pay the taxes due on those remittances, you will have no problems with Thailand. However, if you reside in Thailand permanently, and have no clear evidence of any income, Thailand will eventually get up to speed enough to look closer. Since your Wise account is not a Thailand account, then moving profits to that account does not constitute a tax event in Thailand. Only the money you actually remit into Thailand is assessable.

[timendres]

10 hours ago, Dor1212 said:

So, if that's true, Thai residents can always withdraw to a wise account and then send profits free of tax to their families bank accounts abroad? Isn't that too weird?

 

Well, in theory, your family will need to report your support as "income".

At least in the USA this is the case. If this is not the case in Israel, then fabulous!