How many people actually know the real history of Ukraine and Zelensky?

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, Hakuna Matata said:

There are alternative media experts who have always been cheerleaders for Russia and they accept the present American policy reversal as normal, if belated recognition that the entire proxy war led by Joe Biden was imposed by the Deep State.....

As soon as I saw the reference to "Deep State" I moved away from this post, because although it seems to be a favourite of some folk, it really is a conspiracy theory which is often floated by those who don't know what they're talking about, but need to pin the blame on "XYZ" and once you see it is a favoured quote of Steve Bannon and Breitbart News, then you know you are well and truly down the rabbit hole and in cloud cuckoo land.

[NickyLouie]

On 3/3/2025 at 11:28 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't claim to know Zelensky's life story, but he looks to me like an actor playing a war time leader in that silly cosplay uniform, oh wait.............

 

He's a woman 

 

 

[xylophone]

3 hours ago, xylophone said:

As soon as I saw the reference to "Deep State" I moved away from this post, because although it seems to be a favourite of some folk, it really is a conspiracy theory which is often floated by those who don't know what they're talking about, but need to pin the blame on "XYZ" and once you see it is a favoured quote of Steve Bannon and Breitbart News, then you know you are well and truly down the rabbit hole and in cloud cuckoo land.

Just to add.................

 

The deep state conspiracy theory in the United States is an American political conspiracy theory that posits the existence of the deep state, a clandestine network of members of the federal government (especially within the FBI and CIA). The theory argues that there exist networks of collaborators within the leadership of the high-level financial and industrial entities, which exercise power alongside or within the elected United States government.

 

Political commentator and former presidential adviser David Gergen said that the term had been appropriated by Steve Bannon, Breitbart News, and other supporters of the Trump administration in order to delegitimize the critics of the Trump presidency.

Stephen Walt, professor of international relations at Harvard University, argued that there is no deep state and that "to the extent that there is a bipartisan foreign-policy elite, it is hiding in plain sight"

[spacex]

13 hours ago, xylophone said:

Just to add.................

 

The deep state conspiracy theory in the United States is an American political conspiracy theory that posits the existence of the deep state, a clandestine network of members of the federal government (especially within the FBI and CIA). The theory argues that there exist networks of collaborators within the leadership of the high-level financial and industrial entities, which exercise power alongside or within the elected United States government.

 

Political commentator and former presidential adviser David Gergen said that the term had been appropriated by Steve Bannon, Breitbart News, and other supporters of the Trump administration in order to delegitimize the critics of the Trump presidency.

Stephen Walt, professor of international relations at Harvard University, argued that there is no deep state and that "to the extent that there is a bipartisan foreign-policy elite, it is hiding in plain sight"

I would call it entrenched, unelected bureaucrats who want to hold power regardless of which political party was voted in.  That is the definition of the deep state with all the pet projects and money laundering that goes with it.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/9/2025 at 9:46 PM, Hakuna Matata said:

Trump’s supposedly one-sided support for Russia over Ukraine

In the past two days, major media have highlighted what they call Donald Trump’s blatant favoritism towards Russia by his withdrawal of U.S. materiel and intel assistance to Kiev. The morning news brings accounts of the damage caused to Ukrainian energy infrastructure, hotels and residential housing by the latest massive Russian attacks, which were facilitated, they say, by the lack of relevant intel warnings to Kiev of impending attacks.

Granted that these measures cutting Kiev off from vital supplies are seen as pressure to bring Kiev to the negotiating table, they still allow the anti-Trump mainstream broadcasters to renew old accusations against Trump from the 2016 electoral campaign and then from his first term as being a friend of Putin, if not a dupe of Putin. After all, no such massive pressure is being directed at Russia, even if sanctions are threatened. Indeed, when asked by a reporter yesterday whether Putin was not taking unfair advantage of the U.S. cut-off of intel support, Trump said that Putin was just doing what anyone would do under the circumstances, fighting his fight with the greatest energy to end the war as soon as possible.

The BBC and CNN are presenting on air so-called experts, including the impossibly partisan, anti-Trump former security adviser John Bolton, to inform us of the assumed personal dimension to state-to-state relations in which President Trump is acting arbitrarily.

And what are alternative media saying about the favoritism being shown by Washington to Moscow over Kiev in the softening-up process ahead of peace talks?  Frankly speaking, nothing.  There are alternative media experts who have always been cheerleaders for Russia and they accept the present American policy reversal as normal, if belated recognition that the entire proxy war led by Joe Biden was imposed by the Deep State, which is finally getting its comeuppance as Trump and Musk wield a wrecking ball on traditional policies and institutions to solidify their own hold on power.
There are also more sophisticated experts in the alternative media who are pleased to see the positive policy threads in what the Trump administration is doing, including the massive pressure now being applied to Kiev, but do not see past the verbal contradictions and bluster of Trump’s daily appearances before the public and do not credit him with having a prioritized scenario for ending the war justifying the term ‘brilliant.’

As readers of these pages know, I do see what Trump is doing to be ‘brilliant’ because the confusion he is creating is intended to disarm his opponents, of whom there are many on Capitol Hill, as well as many in foreign capitals who are surely acting in collusion with Trump’s domestic foes.

However, in this brief essay, I put aside these issues and ask what is the objective rather than just subjective explanation of Trump’s latest moves against Kiev and mere tap on the wrist to Moscow while it blasts away generally on the battlefield and now enters into a big offensive in Kursk to encircle a large contingent of Ukrainian elite forces and to destroy others in the shrinking territory that they still control.

Trump, of course, is doing more than just shutting down the supply of weapons and war materiel to Kiev, cutting Ukraine’s access to U.S. satellite and other intelligence essential for targeting offensive missiles and drones into Russia and for its air defense. It is likely that in the coming days, Kiev will lose its access to Musk’s Starlink network of satellites that presently assure field communications. That will be devastating for the Ukrainian war effort and is not really replaceable by anything that the Europeans possesss.

There are two key explanations of what this is about.

The first is to remove the United States from its position as de-facto co-belligerent with Ukraine in the war. Though the Russians never chose to press this point, de jure they had every right to declare war on the United States over its indirect but critical participation in the war. Moreover, Trump’s claim to be an honest broker in ending the war makes sense only if the United States is not a participant aiding one side in the way it has been until now.

The second reason is to smash the false narrative of Ukraine’s ability to carry on by itself which Zelensky used in his dispute with Trump in the Oval Office.  Let us recall:  Donald Trump had told Zelensky that from the very start of the war, the Ukrainians could not have held their own against the Russians for more than a few days or a maximum of two weeks had they not received American military support.  Zelensky vehemently denied that and said that he had heard the same from Putin.

By withholding U.S. support today and letting the Russians proceed with their offensives as they wish, Donald Trump is holding Zelensky’s feet to the fire in the expectation that they will be more realistic, humbler in the peace talks which are to come. Otherwise, the Ukrainians would persist in presenting their demands for a peace that deprives Russia of what it won on the battlefield, thereby sabotaging the peace process.

In the meantime, the Europeans are doing their very best to sabotage the talks by offering material and financial aid to Kiev to continue the war indefinitely. Their problem is that they do not really have the goods to deliver on these promises.

In his own way, Trump is also messaging to the Europeans to come to their senses and acknowledge their impotence without U.S. participation. Yesterday, Washington announced that it will not participate in planning any joint military exercises with the NATO countries for the coming year.  And Defense Secretary Hegseth indicated that more than 30,000 troops will be withdrawn from Germany and reassigned to Hungary, another clear indication that those European countries which remain defiant will be punished by the Americans without delay and without hesitation. Further European defiance can only lead to the total loss of the U.S. security umbrella.

Do these measures seem to be arbitrary and issued at the personal whim of a narcistic President? Not if you are serious about your vocation as a geopolitical analyst.

Good to see a sensible post that is not the usual Trump bad BS,

[MicroB]

On 3/9/2025 at 10:02 AM, NickyLouie said:

 

He's a woman 

 

 

 

Its a skit.

 

"He's" a chicken salesman

 

 

Farm bumpkin

 

 

Janitor/toilet cleaner

 

 

 

[MicroB]

On 3/10/2025 at 7:41 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Good to see a sensible post that is not the usual Trump bad BS,

 

It was plagiarized.

 

https://gilbertdoctorow.com/2025/03/09/trumps-supposedly-one-sided-support-for-russia-over-ukraine/

 

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Gilbert_Doctorow

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Committee_for_East–West_Accord

https://molfar.com/en/foreign-propagandists

 

[MicroB]

Nate Vance (ex-marine, JD Vance's cousin) shares his thoughts.

 

 

[ballpoint]

6 hours ago, MicroB said:

Nate Vance (ex-marine, JD Vance's cousin) shares his thoughts.

 

 

 

Especially the bit where he says he's seen with his own eyes Russian soldiers being shot for retreating on numerous occasions.

[ballpoint]

Meanwhile, an average Ukrainian grandmother weighs in...

 

 

[300sd]

On 3/2/2025 at 8:43 PM, Lacessit said:

Simple people don't understand after 1990, every former Soviet bloc country wanted to join NATO out of fear of being absorbed into the Russian Federation. They had had enough of the living standards of a command economy.

 

Reality check - Ukraine did not join NATO, and it gave up its nukes in exchange for guarantees of territorial sovereignty under the Budapest Memorandum, signed by Putin.

 

Trying to make Russia a victim of big bad NATO won't fly. Russia was making a motza off oil and gas before the second invasion.

 

Everyone wants to revise history nowadays.

Reality check- Ukraine did not join NATO because they didn't have the qualifications etc and also Russia wouldn't be happy about NATO on it's border. And you may want to mention to those "simple people" that Ukraine had nukes when they were a republic of the USSR. They were Russian nukes and Ukraine couldn't use them because they didn't have the firing codes.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/12/2025 at 9:11 AM, MicroB said:

 

It was plagiarized.

 

https://gilbertdoctorow.com/2025/03/09/trumps-supposedly-one-sided-support-for-russia-over-ukraine/

 

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Gilbert_Doctorow

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Committee_for_East–West_Accord

https://molfar.com/en/foreign-propagandists

 

I don't care where it came from. It is still a sensible post that is not the usual Trump bad BS

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't care where it came from. It is still a sensible post that is not the usual Trump bad BS

Thanks for admitting you don't care where material is sourced, as long as it supports your point of view.

 

How's NZ doing in the face of Trump tariffs on your wine and meat exports to the US?

[KhunLA]

https://www.facebook.com/reel/509582695169457

[Sir Dude]

Well, if you look a little further back in history, then you will see how badly Ukraine has been treated by all, during and since WW2... the Soviets were worse than the Nazis, created famine and death on such a big scale from their indifference and fail policies, that who would blame the eastern Europeans on this one. 

Most people commenting on these topics have zero clue what actually happened back in history, not just to Ukraine, but also Poland and a few others too... hence their rush to rearm because the hated Russians are coming. Those appeasing the Russians have never had them occupying their country or experience their awful and sadistic oppression.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, Sir Dude said:

Well, if you look a little further back in history, then you will see how badly Ukraine has been treated by all, during and since WW2... the Soviets were worse than the Nazis, created famine and death on such a big scale from their indifference and fail policies, that who would blame the eastern Europeans on this one. 

Most people commenting on these topics have zero clue what actually happened back in history, not just to Ukraine, but also Poland and a few others too... hence their rush to rearm because the hated Russians are coming. Those appeasing the Russians have never had them occupying their country or experience their awful and sadistic oppression.

If you want to go back in history, most powerful countries behaved badly to people they conquered, eg Britain, Belgium, France in Africa, France in IndoChina, China in Tibet ( also Mao caused the death of millions of Chinese ), USA in the 19th century, etc.

 

There are no clean hands in history.

[rabang]

Main difference is that Ukrainians were supposed to be brothers and sisters of Russians. Then again Russian leaders have been better than anyone to create piles of dead Russian bodies.