Jump to content

Portugal nixes F35 order cos of trump


Recommended Posts

Posted
  On 3/16/2025 at 8:35 AM, Yagoda said:

Ask the Iranian Air Defense Commanders and the manufacturers of the Russian AD systems.

Expand  

 


Ask the guys that fly them and the guys that work on them. 
The F22 is a better fighter all the way around.

 

 

  On 3/16/2025 at 9:05 AM, placeholder said:

If that's the case, and it's not a loss for America, I guess you believe that the balance of payments and the loss of US jobs doesn't matter. So why exactly is Trump imposing tariffs?

Expand  

 

No, its not.
The  F35 program has been in trouble from day one, with any luck it will be phased out soon.
Jobs are a nothing burger, they'll still be working.

  • Thanks 1
Posted
  22 hours ago, SLOWHAND225 said:

 


Ask the guys that fly them and the guys that work on them. 
The F22 is a better fighter all the way around.

 

 

 

No, its not.
The  F35 program has been in trouble from day one, with any luck it will be phased out soon.
Jobs are a nothing burger, they'll still be working.

Expand  

I will tend to agree with you.

F-35 is a piece of Sh*t, but F-22 is much better aircraft and in the top 10 IMO.

  • Thumbs Up 1
Posted
  22 hours ago, SLOWHAND225 said:

Ask the guys that fly them and the guys that work on them. 
The F22 is a better fighter all the way around.

 

Expand  

Well the F35 isnt a "Fighter" qua fighter its a weapons system. Of course the guys that flyF22s prefer them LOL. I wouldnt want to be on the receiving end of either.

Posted
  20 hours ago, LosLobo said:

The F-35 World Alliance includes the United States, United Kingdom, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, Canada, Australia, Japan, South Korea, Israel, and Singapore. While Lockheed Martin is the lead manufacturer, the F-35 programme is a multinational effort. Each participating country has secured contracts for local production of essential aircraft components, making it a globally integrated project rather than a solely U.S.-made fighter.
 

The F-35 project has been in motion for almost 25 years, with aircraft already delivered, in final assembly, or still in production. At this stage, cancelling an order would be a monumental catastrophe—not just for the purchasing country, but for the entire programme, especially the U.S. With so many nations tied into manufacturing contracts and supply chains, backing out now would cause economic, strategic, and industrial fallout across the board.
 

The total cost of the F-35 programme for just the Alliance, including procurement, maintenance, upgrades, and sustainment over its lifetime, is estimated to exceed $1.7 trillion—making it the most expensive defence programme in history. This underscores why no country can afford a sudden withdrawal without severe consequences.
.

The only real threat to the F-35 programme isn’t an enemy nation—it’s the very unstable 'stable genius'.

Expand  

The thing is, it would be a greater disaster if these countries continued with the purchases only to have the US effectively brick them if it so chooses. And what percentage, by value, of the components are going to be manufactured outside of the USA?  Got any figures for that?  Might this not just be a case of throwing good money after bad?

And, it doesn't address the issue of why countries should purchase new weapons systems from the USA. Why would they expose themselves to that risk? Especially given that with Trump's imposition of tariffs, the economic stimulus  from buying weapons is best kept at home. 

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
Posted
  20 hours ago, placeholder said:

The thing is, it would be a greater disaster if these countries continued with the purchases only to have the US effectively brick them if it so chooses. And what percentage, by value, of the components are going to be manufactured outside of the USA?  Got any figures for that?  Might this not just be a case of throwing good money after bad?

And, it doesn't address the issue of why countries should purchase new weapons systems from the USA. Why would they expose themselves to that risk? Especially given that with Trump's imposition of tariffs, the economic stimulus  from buying weapons is best kept at home. 

Expand  

Around 25–30% of the F-35's total value is produced outside the U.S., with components sourced from the partner countries. The U.S. is still the dominant player, but nations like the UK, Italy, and Japan play a key role in providing critical parts such as wings, fuselages, and avionics.

The U.S. couldn’t do it alone, not without serious delays or costs ballooning beyond what’s manageable.

  • Thumbs Up 1
Posted
  23 hours ago, SpaceKadet said:

Thailand had 12 Gripens since 2011, well, 11 now since one splashed a few years ago, based in Surat Thani.

Excellent choice for a country like Thailand.

 

Such a beautiful aircraft! Russia, beware!

image.jpeg.6238bf010d348bb67909a34fdae6cc64.jpeg

 

Expand  

It is also cheaper to buy, far cheaper to use per flying hour, needs far less maintenance and is not reliant on fixed airbases which are vulnerable in a war situation. Spares are cheaper and it cannot be "switched off" by the USA.

  • Agree 1
Posted
  20 hours ago, LosLobo said:

Around 25–30% of the F-35's total value is produced outside the U.S., with components sourced from the partner countries. The U.S. is still the dominant player, but nations like the UK, Italy, and Japan play a key role in providing critical parts such as wings, fuselages, and avionics.

The U.S. couldn’t do it alone, not without serious delays or costs ballooning beyond what’s manageable.

Expand  

This approach saves money? Really? It's not like these countries are developing nations where costs should be lower. I think it's more likely a sop to those countries to make these purchases politically palatable.

  • Confused 1
Posted
  20 hours ago, placeholder said:

Make them useless. These things come equipped with an awful lot of high advanced electronics. 

Expand  

How?

Have you fallen for the tin foil hat brigade mantra that the US can "flick a switch" and kill all F35s"?

It is just that until such time as you get a quote from a previous president or SEC DEF etc to confirm it and how it would work. 

No way such a so called "kill switch" exists. 

Posted
  19 hours ago, rough diamond said:

How?

Have you fallen for the tin foil hat brigade mantra that the US can "flick a switch" and kill all F35s"?

It is just that until such time as you get a quote from a previous president or SEC DEF etc to confirm it and how it would work. 

No way such a so called "kill switch" exists. 

Expand  

Thanks for the correction. Still, there's this:

No actual evidence of a kill switch has ever materialized. But the U.S. could almost as easily degrade others' F-35s by withholding spare parts, canceling services, and blocking software updates delivered by U.S. cloud-based software systems.

https://www.defenseone.com/business/2025/03/trumps-anti-nato-turn-could-sink-f-35-sales/403720/#:~:text=No actual evidence of a,U.S. cloud-based software systems.

  • Thanks 1
Posted
  19 hours ago, rough diamond said:

How?

Have you fallen for the tin foil hat brigade mantra that the US can "flick a switch" and kill all F35s"?

It is just that until such time as you get a quote from a previous president or SEC DEF etc to confirm it and how it would work. 

No way such a so called "kill switch" exists. 

Expand  

The kill switch is an extreme scenario.

 

There are several other ways which can be used to degrade the performance of the F-35, as explained in this article.

https://theaviationist.com/2025/03/10/f-35-kill-switch-myth/

Posted
  On 3/16/2025 at 4:02 AM, Skunkfarben said:

 

5.5 billion € is nothing. Over ten years is bigger nothing. I'm sure Trump not sleeping all night

Expand  

Tech is advancing so fast it's likely the planes will be obsolete by the time they are built. Perhaps they'll even be pilotless in the not so distant future, flown like drones from far away.

 

They might do better investing in an improved defense missile system than planes.

Posted
  22 hours ago, SLOWHAND225 said:

No, its not.
The  F35 program has been in trouble from day one, with any luck it will be phased out soon.
Jobs are a nothing burger, they'll still be working.

Expand  

Seems to me it's a case of politicians getting involved with armaments which they know zero about.

Reminds me of when NZ made a political decision to replace the M16 with a piece of junk because the Aussies were making them on license. Took years before they got rid of the junk and went back to the US rifle.

Posted

Portugal doesn't need billions worth of fighter jets anyway.

I really wonder why these dumb governments spend so much on this worthless crap which they will never get to use.

Kind of like wanting submarines when you don't have a ready to go nuclear arsenal to hide or at least make it look like you have it.

Posted
  19 hours ago, placeholder said:

I think it's more likely a sop to those countries to make these purchases politically palatable.

Expand  

It's more likely a course of action to at least provide some support an aviation industry in their country rather than having none at all.  Seems like their national security was a consideration.

Posted
  20 hours ago, LosLobo said:

Around 25–30% of the F-35's total value is produced outside the U.S., with components sourced from the partner countries. The U.S. is still the dominant player, but nations like the UK, Italy, and Japan play a key role in providing critical parts such as wings, fuselages, and avionics.

The U.S. couldn’t do it alone, not without serious delays or costs ballooning beyond what’s manageable.

Expand  

 

No doubt Trump is doing considerable damage to this alliance. And don't discount what damage the alternative will be. There are calls to buy European at the moment. But just wait once all these national European firms clear the field for themselves. They'll turn on each other, as they usually do, because the Germans and the French will try to manipulate things solely for their benefit. Remember what the Germans did to exploit the PIGS (Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain) during the Sovereign Debt Crisis.

  • Haha 1

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...