Long waits, waves of calls, web crashes: Social Security is breaking down

[frank83628]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Thanks for the obvious attempt at deflection. The fact is Musk made massively wrong and dishonest claims about social security fraud. Not only that, Doge has actually slashed 20% of the fraud inspectors working for social security.

do you have a US SS number? Is it directly affecting you?

[Patong2021]

2 hours ago, LiamB80 said:

Actually that's incorrect. There's people over 140yo collecting SS, illegal aliens collecting social security disability, also legit social security numbers used by companies that employ illegal aliens to try and fool E-verify. A top to bottom audit is needed. It's pretty simple, you either support DOGE or you support corruption. 

Not supported by actual facts. The age discrepancies were intentionally keyed because of missing DOBs. Who are these illegal aliens that you refer to? DOGE isn't auditing the social security system. It doesn't have the capability. Also, no accountants are involved.How do 19 year old software coders know or understand financial accounting?

[placeholder]

Just now, frank83628 said:

do you have a US SS number? Is it directly affecting you?

 Again, you want to know more about my personal life. Well I suppose I should be flattered by the obvious crush you have on me, but frankly, I gotta tell you, it's getting a little creepy.

Please try to stick to the topic.

[stevenl]

27 minutes ago, jas007 said:

No one wants to stop benefits to people who deserve them.

Don't make opinions sound like facts.

You'd also have to define 'deserve'. Are people living abroad deserving? Are people living in cheaper areas deserving? And many more questions can be asked.

[phetphet]

2 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

 

They have : https://nationalinterest.org/blog/politics/recent-social-security-fraudsters-prosecuted-feds-200129

That article is dated Jan 30 2022. I am talking about these massive frauds that DOGE says it has been finding.  

[jas007]

8 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Don't make opinions sound like facts.

You'd also have to define 'deserve'. Are people living abroad deserving? Are people living in cheaper areas deserving? And many more questions can be asked.

Either you qualify for the benefits or you don't.  Feel better now that I didn't use the word "deserve"? 

 

It's pretty simple.  It's all defined by law and regulation.  You reach retirement age.  You apply.  And, if your record reflects a work history showing you qualify for Title II benefits, you begin to receive them when they are due.  If your work record does not reflect sufficient quarters of coverage, they you are not eligible for Title II benefits but may be eligible for title XVI benefits. 

 

And exactly what "opinions" did I imply were facts? 

[jvs]

48 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

It hasn't been debunked, there are names of dead people that have not been removed. Just the same as there are dead people on the voter rolls. To what extent is whatbis being looked into

you just debunked it yourself!

there are names of dead people that have not been removed!

That does not mean they are getting money and it is  certain these people do not vote right?

[hughrection]

2 hours ago, LiamB80 said:

There's people over 140yo collecting SS

Please provide facts for this statement. Show us proof. Not just the people at DOGE saying it.

[jas007]

21 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

Not supported by actual facts. The age discrepancies were intentionally keyed because of missing DOBs. Who are these illegal aliens that you refer to? DOGE isn't auditing the social security system. It doesn't have the capability. Also, no accountants are involved.How do 19 year old software coders know or understand financial accounting?

 Look at it this way: according to SSA records, someone who the system shows is that old is receiving the benefits. The money is going out.  And so they're trying to figure out who is receiving that money.  Is that so hard to understand?  Or are you OK with fraudsters being paid? 

[jvs]

1 hour ago, LiamB80 said:

Trump won the election with an overwhelming majority landslide victory. The way he chooses to look at possible fraud in the Social Security administration is up to him, the American people overwhelmingly support him regardless of what is reflected on this site of mostly non Americans spouting off due to their hatred of Elon Musk (great American btw) and President Trump.

He won by a 1.6% margin,hardly a landslide i would say but keep repeating the landslide thing  and some day you may believe it.

 

[placeholder]

43 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Who proved he was wrong?  All I see is a bunch of people claiming he was.  Anyway, is it not possible that there's a problem there, and they're just trying to verify the order of magnitude?  Is it one person, is it 100,000 people, is it millions of people?  They'll figure it out.  No one wants to stop benefits to people who deserve them.  The SSA even has an expedited process for correcting any mistakes.  That may now take individual verification of identity, either in person or otherwise, but the process is there.  You can bet that people receiving  money they shouldn't be receiving will have a hard time proving that they do.  Most probably won't even try.  They'll just yell and scream a lot that Elon is a fascist.  

If you haven't read the voluminous reporting about why he's wrong by now, why are you even participating in this discussion? To air your lack of knowledge?

As for the claim that  "No one wants to stop benefits to people who deserve them." How do you know that? Mindreading much?

This might sound a bit outrageous to you, but there are actually quite a few very old and infirm people receiving social security. Before they could use a phone. Now they either have to  learn how use the internet or they have to personally show up at a SS office.  At the same time, Doge is slashing personnel. I think a good argument could be made that there are actually some who do want to stop benefits to people who deserve them.

[stevenl]

11 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Either you qualify for the benefits or you don't.  Feel better now that I didn't use the word "deserve"? 

 

It's pretty simple.  It's all defined by law and regulation.  You reach retirement age.  You apply.  And, if your record reflects a work history showing you qualify for Title II benefits, you begin to receive them when they are due.  If your work record does not reflect sufficient quarters of coverage, they you are not eligible for Title II benefits but may be eligible for title XVI benefits. 

 

And exactly what "opinions" did I imply were facts? 

I quoted you, but you don't understand?

"No one wants to stop benefits to people who deserve them.". Clearly an opinion, one that imo is not supported by the facts.

 

Yes, qualify is better than deserve. But the norms to qualify can be changed. And no doubt in my mind they will be changed.

[placeholder]

14 minutes ago, phetphet said:

That article is dated Jan 30 2022. I am talking about these massive frauds that DOGE says it has been finding.  

The so-called evidence for massive fraud that Musk claims he's found, has been on the books for a lot longer than 3 years. You really believe that there has been a massive rise in fraud the last 3 years? Not even Musk has claimed that.

The massive fraud Doge claims it has been finding has been repeatedly debunked. Even the acting commissioner of social security who was appointed by Trump, isn't backing him.

[jvs]

10 minutes ago, jas007 said:

 Look at it this way: according to SSA records, someone who the system shows is that old is receiving the benefits. The money is going out.  And so they're trying to figure out who is receiving that money.  Is that so hard to understand?  Or are you OK with fraudsters being paid? 

It is a flaw in the system,very little fraud.

If fraud because a fault in the system then fix that! and not pretend there are 10 million people who collect SS.when the should not.

https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-doge-social-security-150-year-old-benefits/

[jas007]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I quoted you, but you don't understand?

"No one wants to stop benefits to people who deserve them.".

 

Yes, qualify is better than deserve. But the norms to qualify can be changed. And no doubt in my mind they will be changed.

Of course they can be changed.  But Elon Musk cannot do that. Donald Trump cannot do that. D.O.G.E cannot do that.  Only congress can change the qualifications for retirement benefits.  If that happens, so be it. Disability benefits are a different story, as the process to determine who is entitled to those was established through Notice and Comment regulations.  

[jas007]

5 minutes ago, jvs said:

It is a flaw in the system,very little fraud.

If fraud because a fault in the system then fix that! and not pretend there are 10 million people who collect SS.when the should not.

https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-doge-social-security-150-year-old-benefits/

I'm sure they will fix that.  And I do understand much of what shows as money being paid to people well over 100 years old is likely being paid to someone younger.  I understand that.  But that does't mean there's no fraud to be uncovered. How would you fix things? Wait for "business as usual" to catch up to 2025?

[sqwakvfr]

I just logged onto SSA.gov and no issues. Also, the application status remains the same "pending review".  

[stevenl]

4 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Of course they can be changed.  But Elon Musk cannot do that. Donald Trump cannot do that. D.O.G.E cannot do that.  Only congress can change the qualifications for retirement benefits.  If that happens, so be it. Disability benefits are a different story, as the process to determine who is entitled to those was established through Notice and Comment regulations.  

Musk and trump can make it much more difficult to claim benefits people are entitled to.

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, jas007 said:

I'm sure they will fix that.  And I do understand much of what shows as money being paid to people well over 100 years old is likely being paid to someone younger.  I understand that.  But that does't mean there's no fraud to be uncovered. How would you fix things? Wait for "business as usual" to catch up to 2025?

Clearly, you haven't read the reports. No, it isn't about money recorded as being paid to older people is actually being paid to younger people. That money isn't being paid at all. Musk and company misunderstood a ledger that had the names on it of everyone who didn't have a definite date of death and understood it to mean that they  were actual recipients. You would know this if you actually cared to understand the issue. Here's a link that explains the issue:

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5156451-social-security-benefits-fraud/

[jas007]

12 minutes ago, placeholder said:

If you haven't read the voluminous reporting about why he's wrong by now, why are you even participating in this discussion? To air your lack of knowledge?

As for the claim that  "No one wants to stop benefits to people who deserve them." How do you know that? Mindreading much?

This might sound a bit outrageous to you, but there are actually quite a few very old and infirm people receiving social security. Before they could use a phone. Now they either have to  learn how use the internet or they have to personally show up at a SS office.  At the same time, Doge is slashing personnel. I think a good argument could be made that there are actually some who do want to stop benefits to people who deserve them.

Since when does "voluminous reporting" prove anything?  Voluminous reporting as reported by the "fake news" media?  

 

In any event, how many people ever the age of 100 do you think are actually collecting benefits? There aren't many, unless they're all very well hidden.  How many people over 100 do you know?  

 

The Lefties are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill with this story.  Trying to scare everyone.  All the Administration is trying to do is cut out waste, fraud, and abuse.  If there's an easy way to do that, please, let us know.  But don't think for a minute that "business as usual" will fix the problem.  Business as usual is exactly why there is a problem now.  People taking the easy way out.  "We don't have time for this now, put it on the back burner."  "Code in a fake birthday.  That'll fix it." I can give you other examples of how shortcuts became the norm, but I'll skip that for another day.  

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Since when does "voluminous reporting" prove anything?  Voluminous reporting as reported by the "fake news" media?  

 

In any event, how many people ever the age of 100 do you think are actually collecting benefits? There aren't many, unless they're all very well hidden.  How many people over 100 do you know?  

 

The Lefties are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill with this story.  Trying to scare everyone.  All the Administration is trying to do is cut out waste, fraud, and abuse.  If there's an easy way to do that, please, let us know.  But don't think for a minute that "business as usual" will fix the problem.  Business as usual is exactly why there is a problem now.  People taking the easy way out.  "We don't have time for this now, put it on the back burner."  "Code in a fake birthday.  That'll fix it." I can give you other examples of how shortcuts became the norm, but I'll skip that for another day.  

You know how you can know it's true? Find me an article from fox news or even newsmax that disputes the facts of the case. That's how. You think they wouldn't jump all over this if the facts were being misrepresented?

And how do you defend a President who tells congress that there are millions of cases of fraud?

[jvs]

2 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Since when does "voluminous reporting" prove anything?  Voluminous reporting as reported by the "fake news" media?  

 

In any event, how many people ever the age of 100 do you think are actually collecting benefits? There aren't many, unless they're all very well hidden.  How many people over 100 do you know?  

 

The Lefties are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill with this story.  Trying to scare everyone.  All the Administration is trying to do is cut out waste, fraud, and abuse.  If there's an easy way to do that, please, let us know.  But don't think for a minute that "business as usual" will fix the problem.  Business as usual is exactly why there is a problem now.  People taking the easy way out.  "We don't have time for this now, put it on the back burner."  "Code in a fake birthday.  That'll fix it." I can give you other examples of how shortcuts became the norm, but I'll skip that for another day.  

there are none so blind as those who will not see

[placeholder]

Just now, jvs said:

there are none so blind as those who will not see

It's funny. This person tries to represent himself as being reasonable but then resorts to this: 

 

 Since when does "voluminous reporting" prove anything?  Voluminous reporting as reported by the "fake news" media?  

 

He gives himself away by offering nothing in the way of verifiable facts  from right wing media to counter these reports. What he's practicing is called willful ignorance.

[jas007]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You know how you can know it's true? Find me an article from fox news or even newsmax that disputes the facts of the case. That's how. You think they wouldn't jump all over this if the facts were being misrepresented?

And how do you defend a President who tells congress that there are millions of cases of fraud?

 Too many bombastic claims on both sides?

 

All that is going on here, in the end, is that they're trying to cut out waste, fraud, and abuse, where they find it. I'm sure they'll figure it out.  Anyway, there's more fraud elsewhere in the government, I'm sure.  Like kickbacks from the forever wars, perhaps?  How many billions there?

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, jas007 said:

 Too many bombastic claims on both sides?

 

All that is going on here, in the end, is that they're trying to cut out waste, fraud, and abuse, where they find it. I'm sure they'll figure it out.  Anyway, there's more fraud elsewhere in the government, I'm sure.  Like kickbacks from the forever wars, perhaps?  How many billions there?

Are you a mind reader? How do you know what their motives are? How do you know what their agenda is? We do know that Musk perseveres in his falsehoods about Social Security despite dispositive evidence that he's lying.

Musk has  history of massively lying that predates his Doge service.

And why do you refuse to look up the facts of the case?

[frank83628]

43 minutes ago, jvs said:

you just debunked it yourself!

there are names of dead people that have not been removed!

That does not mean they are getting money and it is  certain these people do not vote right?

No, but It doesn't mean they are not either, that is exactly what Musk & DOGE are doing,  sorting out any mispayments, corruption or Fraud.

a link posed earlier says it estimated at 1% ot the 1.6t yearly payments, even that is a tonne of waste. 

[jas007]

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

It's funny. This person tries to represent himself as being reasonable but then resorts to this: 

 

 Since when does "voluminous reporting" prove anything?  Voluminous reporting as reported by the "fake news" media?  

 

He gives himself away by offering nothing in the way of verifiable facts  from right wing media to counter these reports. What he's practicing is called willful ignorance.

Since when does the media, any media, ever conclusively make findings of "fact"?   They report what they consider to be "news." That's it.  What's true?  Maybe they're accurate, maybe they're not.  In any event, what they report doesn't matter, at the end of the day. 

 

As for people''s "agenda"?  Who knows?  They say what they say. They do what they do.  It's all part of the political process and it's not for me to decide. But make no mistake, it's happening and neither of us have much to say about it. 

 

Just hope the efforts at reform aren't sidelined by political bickering.  The country is finished, otherwise, I'm afraid. 

[placeholder]

Just now, frank83628 said:

No, but It doesn't mean they are not either, that is exactly what Musk & DOGE are doing,  sorting out any mispayments, corruption or Fraud.

a link posed earlier says it estimated at 1% ot the 1.6t yearly payments, even that is a tonne of waste. 

But it's not millions as Trump proclaimed before Congress. And given the demonstrable ignorance of the Doge team, why should we expect them to find it or correct the problems.

 

[JAG]

2 hours ago, LiamB80 said:

This thread has really struck a nerve with some people. Makes me wonder what are they so afraid of ? DOGE finding out they're living in Thailand on Social Security disability, double dipping, claiming benefits they didn't earn, dead family members still getting paid SS ? After reading through the comments I'm even more certain that a thorough audit of Social Security is needed. The reactions are a dead giveaway they're scared to death of what Elon will find. 

Anyone who is living in Thailand on Social Security disability, double dipping, claiming benefits they didn't earn, dead family members still getting paid SS and so on would really be very silly indeed to be commenting on this forum or similar, now wouldn't they?

 

Far, far better to keep a low profile don't you think?

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Since when does the media, any media, ever conclusively make findings of "fact"?   They report what they consider to be "news." That's it.  What's true?  Maybe they're accurate, maybe they're not.  In any event, what they report doesn't matter, at the end of the day. 

 

As for people''s "agenda"?  Who knows?  They say what they say. They do what they do.  It's all part of the political process and it's not for me to decide. But make no mistake, it's happening and neither of us have much to say about it. 

 

Just hope the efforts at reform aren't sidelined by political bickering.  The country is finished, otherwise, I'm afraid. 

The only way your comment makes sense is if there is no such thing as facts. And given that you refuse to read the reports about this issue, your comments are laughable..

I did try and see what Fox News reported a about his claims about possible massive fraud. They did report his claim. In the article the reporter wrote that they reached out to the Social Security Administration for comment. I couldn't find any follow-up article. What does that tell you?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/elon-musk-says-millions-social-security-database-between-ages-100-159