What’s causing the traffic here?

[Maxbkkcm]

1 minute ago, jvs said:

Do you have a car in Thailand?

 

Nope 

[KhunBENQ]

30 minutes ago, Tomtomtom69 said:

 Most? Only two, which are the Friendship Highway between Saraburi and Nong Khai and route 304 between Prachinburi and Nakorn Ratchasima.

And both have grown significantly.

I remember when 304 was two lanes.

 

Too many cars everywhere.

Khon Kaen on weekends is a nightmare.

Udon not much better.

Four small bottlenecks crossing the antique leveled rail line. And very most going through one bottleneck.

 

Tremendous growth of bulky pickups on the countryside jamming small district towns.

Zero significant public transport from the villages.

Without wheels you are buried alive.

Antique tiny railway net.

No alternative.

[KhunBENQ]

Stupid schematic traffic lights.

Not adapted. Staring at empty intersections...

Four phases at the intersection.

Drivers near comatose when lights turn green. Creeping.

(remember Rome some 30 years ago, like opening a flood gate 😁)

Much more traffic could go through.

Etc etc ...

[save the frogs]

11 hours ago, Maxbkkcm said:

So why not get rid of cars? And implement carpooling? More minivan ? To reduce it. 

carpooling companies exist back home. not many people use them. 

people like their own their own cars. 

 

tesla did design a robovan (driverless mini bus). 

I doubt it will come to thailand any time soon.

I like it and can't wait for it. 

 

[Yagoda]

13 minutes ago, theshu25 said:

As usual,no facts,just guesses. 

As usual, stalking and trying to play one up on minutae.

 

If you care about this little debate, look it up and start a topic: "What Infrastructure in Thailand Did the US Fund During Vietnam." I might respond if I see it.

[Patong2021]

50 minutes ago, Maxbkkcm said:

What are the causes? 
 

Is it due to the size of the roads that are too narrow? Is it because a lots of lands on the side are private? So it reduce size of driving.

 

Or is it because there is too much cars? Apparently way more than 5 years ago but not sure about that.

 

What’s your take on this? 

excluding   "unregistered" vehicles, there are 1 million+ more automobiless on the road today than there were 5 years ago. Add to this the millions of motorbikes, and the  estimated770,000 trucks and pickups, the answer is obvious. More vehicles in a country where  the roads have the same capacity as before. Add to that, multiple projects that disrupt traffic flow.

 

[Ralf001]

24 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Yes, Where is here?

Chonburi is a gigantic place.

Pattaya is jammed, so is Sukhumvit to Ban Saen or to Sattihip.

 

 

Yeah... notice I said province ?

 

I live in Nongprue, work in Phan Thong.

 

Pattaya traffic is fine, just need to be selective when crossing over from the darkside.

[KhunBENQ]

54 minutes ago, Maxbkkcm said:

Or is it because there is too much cars? Apparently way more than 5 years ago but not sure about that.

Exponential growth.

And it would be much worse if they were all frequently on the road .

Fortunately many pickups here are used once or twice a week.

[Tomtomtom69]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

 

Corrected ... only bad in congested cites.  Along with timing is everything.  Weekends & rush hour should be avoided most places, worldwide.

 

 

Corrected above, as HH, Lopburi are congested cites.  Been a while, but I didn't think Mukdahan was bad. 

 

Don't forget, since you are in the traffic, you are part of the problem, not the solution.

 

 

 

Major highways are congested, even in rural areas. On Friday evenings, weekends and holidays in particular, but not only then.

 

Petchakasem highway as far south as Bang Saphan at least and pretty much the whole way to the Malaysian border is always full of traffic.

 

The Friendship Highway (starting as Phahonyothin as far as Saraburi) between Bangkok and Nakorn Ratchasima is very congested, much of the time. You can experience traffic jams in Klang Dong, which is a "small, rural town" at 9 or 10pm any day of the week. Many Major thoroughfares in greater Bangkok are relatively quiet by then, but traffic is often backed up on the uphill/downhill stretches of Friendship Highway. 

[Photoguy21]

4 hours ago, Maxbkkcm said:

What are the causes? 
 

Is it due to the size of the roads that are too narrow? Is it because a lots of lands on the side are private? So it reduce size of driving.

 

Or is it because there is too much cars? Apparently way more than 5 years ago but not sure about that.

 

What’s your take on this? 

There have been analysts from overseas come and check the situation. They came to the conclusion that the percentage of roads based on population was inadequate. Of course the report was ignored.

[Tomtomtom69]

4 hours ago, Maxbkkcm said:

What are the causes? 
 

Is it due to the size of the roads that are too narrow? Is it because a lots of lands on the side are private? So it reduce size of driving.

 

Or is it because there is too much cars? Apparently way more than 5 years ago but not sure about that.

 

What’s your take on this? 

 

A couple of other factors I didn't mention in previous replies:

 

1) traffic light timings are poorly staggered; they often use police officers to control them or have random, preset timings, which explains why you're sitting at a quiet intersection, where no one is coming in the other direction but you're still forced to wait 30-60 seconds or even longer before you're allowed to go. In busier areas, this can lead to major traffic congestion

 

2) a lot of "superblocks", which means that secondary roads aren't constructed as landowners own these large plots, upon which housing estates, shopping malls, buildings are built but with access only from the main road. This is why even in the cities, most major roads resemble highways, not urban roads. You can't make right hand turns. You have to use underpasses underneath bridges or travel straight for 3km before being able to do a u-turn.

[richard_smith237]

What makes up the heavy traffic here.... 

 

One of the major facets often overlooked is the 'amount of roads coverage' as a percentage of surface area of the city - this is difficult to see from ground level....    but sources suggest a clear distinction...

 

Road Surface Area by City (% of total urban area)

New York City, USA – 38%

Los Angeles, USA – 36%

Paris, France – 25%

Tokyo, Japan – 23%

London, UK – 22%

Seoul, South Korea – 21%

Mexico City, Mexico – 17%

Shanghai, China – 15%

Singapore – 12%

Toronto, Canada – 11%

Bangkok, Thailand – 7.2%

Barcelona, Spain – 26%

 

Add to this no "smart traffic lights," which use sensors, cameras, and algorithms to adapt traffic light timings in real-time, optimising traffic flow and reducing congestion, which also often incorporates AI for predictive analytics and emergency vehicle prioritisation and we have grid lock. 

 

Add to this length of time that traffic lights are on 'red for' which contributes to the psychological aspect of drivers so reluctant to be stopped for a red light so end up blocking box junctions, again generating grid lock. 

 

Additionally, faster cycling of traffic lights can improve traffic flow. When vehicles move through junctions at higher speeds, they tend to spread out more, reducing traffic density and occupying less road space. For example, in the first 30 seconds of green light, 20 cars might pass through a junction; between 30 to 60 seconds, only 10 might pass; and from 60 to 90 seconds, perhaps just 5 - as traffic slows and bunches up. This shows that quicker light cycles can help maintain speed and spacing, making better use of road capacity.

 

 

 

[Tomtomtom69]

4 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

There have been analysts from overseas come and check the situation. They came to the conclusion that the percentage of roads based on population was inadequate. Of course the report was ignored.

 

Precisely. It's quite self evident when you're coming in to land say in Bangkok (at either airport). You'll see a few main roads and some small sois that end in dead ends coming off these roads but very few connections between them.

 

In more rural areas or the outskirts of the cities, it would be very easy to build a grid system of roads as most of those areas are farmland. However, this isn't done and instead, the government builds maybe one wide highway through the area and developers build their housing estates, strip malls, shopping centers, schools etc. along these highways and access is via the one main highway only.

 

Vietnam and Cambodia know how to build roads in a grid pattern when cities are expanded. Look at how well designed District 7 of Ho Chi Minh and Koh Pich in Phnom Penh are, but they probably learned their methods from the French.

[Photoguy21]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

What makes up the heavy traffic here.... 

 

One of the major facets often overlooked is the 'amount of roads coverage' as a percentage of surface area of the city - this is difficult to see from ground level....    but sources suggest a clear distinction...

 

Road Surface Area by City (% of total urban area)

New York City, USA – 38%

Los Angeles, USA – 36%

Paris, France – 25%

Tokyo, Japan – 23%

London, UK – 22%

Seoul, South Korea – 21%

Mexico City, Mexico – 17%

Shanghai, China – 15%

Singapore – 12%

Toronto, Canada – 11%

Bangkok, Thailand – 7.2%

Barcelona, Spain – 26%

 

Add to this no "smart traffic lights," which use sensors, cameras, and algorithms to adapt traffic light timings in real-time, optimising traffic flow and reducing congestion, which also often incorporates AI for predictive analytics and emergency vehicle prioritisation and we have grid lock. 

 

Add to this length of time that traffic lights are on 'red for' which contributes to the psychological aspect of drivers so reluctant to be stopped for a red light so end up blocking box junctions, again generating grid lock. 

 

Additionally, faster cycling of traffic lights can improve traffic flow. When vehicles move through junctions at higher speeds, they tend to spread out more, reducing traffic density and occupying less road space. For example, in the first 30 seconds of green light, 20 cars might pass through a junction; between 30 to 60 seconds, only 10 might pass; and from 60 to 90 seconds, perhaps just 5 - as traffic slows and bunches up. This shows that quicker light cycles can help maintain speed and spacing, making better use of road capacity.

 

 

 

There is one traffic set of light near where I live and you can wait for up to 5 minutes before it changes to Green. They are not set up to assist the traffic flow.

[Tomtomtom69]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

What makes up the heavy traffic here.... 

 

One of the major facets often overlooked is the 'amount of roads coverage' as a percentage of surface area of the city - this is difficult to see from ground level....    but sources suggest a clear distinction...

 

Road Surface Area by City (% of total urban area)

New York City, USA – 38%

Los Angeles, USA – 36%

Paris, France – 25%

Tokyo, Japan – 23%

London, UK – 22%

Seoul, South Korea – 21%

Mexico City, Mexico – 17%

Shanghai, China – 15%

Singapore – 12%

Toronto, Canada – 11%

Bangkok, Thailand – 7.2%

Barcelona, Spain – 26%

 

Add to this no "smart traffic lights," which use sensors, cameras, and algorithms to adapt traffic light timings in real-time, optimising traffic flow and reducing congestion, which also often incorporates AI for predictive analytics and emergency vehicle prioritisation and we have grid lock. 

 

Add to this length of time that traffic lights are on 'red for' which contributes to the psychological aspect of drivers so reluctant to be stopped for a red light so end up blocking box junctions, again generating grid lock. 

 

Additionally, faster cycling of traffic lights can improve traffic flow. When vehicles move through junctions at higher speeds, they tend to spread out more, reducing traffic density and occupying less road space. For example, in the first 30 seconds of green light, 20 cars might pass through a junction; between 30 to 60 seconds, only 10 might pass; and from 60 to 90 seconds, perhaps just 5 - as traffic slows and bunches up. This shows that quicker light cycles can help maintain speed and spacing, making better use of road capacity.

 

 

 

 

Very well articulated. 100% correct.

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

There is one traffic set of light near where I live and you can wait for up to 5 minutes before it changes to Green. They are not set up to assist the traffic flow.

 

And I bet, people are so 'fearful' of getting stuck on red, that they'll follow a line of at least 10 cars through on red as other traffic is already trying to get through....   in times of heavy traffic, this just causes absolute gridlock as no lane can move, the knock impact is that the junction further back then gets blocked...   this spreads city wide....   & why ???...  because no one respects the lights and its too hot (police are too lazy) to get out of their AC boxes and force cars to stop when the light is turning yellow... 

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Tomtomtom69 said:

 

Major highways are congested, even in rural areas. On Friday evenings, weekends and holidays in particular, but not only then.

 

Petchakasem highway as far south as Bang Saphan at least and pretty much the whole way to the Malaysian border is always full of traffic.

 

The Friendship Highway (starting as Phahonyothin as far as Saraburi) between Bangkok and Nakorn Ratchasima is very congested, much of the time. You can experience traffic jams in Klang Dong, which is a "small, rural town" at 9 or 10pm any day of the week. Many Major thoroughfares in greater Bangkok are relatively quiet by then, but traffic is often backed up on the uphill/downhill stretches of Friendship Highway. 

Timing is everything, and as I noted, same as you ... "On Friday evenings, weekends and holidays"

 

I've driven Phetchkasem / Hwy #4, quite a bit, living in PKK, all the way north, and all the way south, more than a few times.   Along with hwy 41, 1, 2, 3, 9, 11, 12, 21, 24, 31, 37, 210, 323, etc etc etc.

 

No problem, usually ... IF, paying attention to that 'timing'.   

 

Of course if you travel around a M to F work and school schedule, than you're sure to experience a lot of congestion.   We don't so ,we don't get to experience all that congestion.

[newbee2022]

Very difficult to answer.😍

I'll give you one idea: too many people.

(People to walk, people to drive, people to live)

🙏

[spidermike007]

In my opinion successive administrations have spent 75 years avoiding any sort of plan that included the proper movement of cargo, they should have had rail systems in place with major cargo transport for decades now, and instead you have trucks of all sizes plying a very limited number of highways and causing massive amounts of congestion and very slow moving traffic. This is an abomination and falls on the tiny shoulders of many successive PMs. 

 

The only solution I can see would be to build double decker highways throughout the entire nation with toll roads on the top and free roads on the bottom, but it's quite likely Thailand simply does not have the money for this. One solution would be to accept help from the Chinese, get a massive Belt and Road initiative loan, have the Chinese solve the problem within a year or two, and then default on the loan, like every other country in that program. 

[SS1]

A big part is also because of idiot drivers parking illegally, turning from the wrong lanes, lane hogging etc. the list goes on. 

[Thingamabob]

Worldwide problem. Too many people, too many cars.

[Presnock]

On 3/27/2025 at 11:01 AM, Maxbkkcm said:

What are the causes? 
 

Is it due to the size of the roads that are too narrow? Is it because a lots of lands on the side are private? So it reduce size of driving.

 

Or is it because there is too much cars? Apparently way more than 5 years ago but not sure about that.

 

What’s your take on this? 

came to BKK 1972 - too many cars then, and the other 3 times I worked at the Embassy on Wireless road - same thing, too many cars, and like most old old cities can't either move the people or get them to move for other buildings. In 1976 one could stand on the embassy roof (2 story building in those days) and overlook the entire city as there were only about two (chokchai bldg and Dusit Thani Hotel) over 2-3 stories.  Look at it today - full of condos and bldgs to cater to tourists and parttime visitors/office workers

[Purdey]

I have a petrol engineered roadster. No way I am giving that up. Over my cold, dead hands.

[portisaacozzy]

On 3/27/2025 at 11:01 AM, Maxbkkcm said:

What are the causes? 
 

Is it due to the size of the roads that are too narrow? Is it because a lots of lands on the side are private? So it reduce size of driving.

 

Or is it because there is too much cars? Apparently way more than 5 years ago but not sure about that.

 

What’s your take on this? 

they havnt learned to drive yet

[Peterphuket]

On 3/27/2025 at 11:21 AM, Tomtomtom69 said:

The north-south highway is the only road that connects Southern Thailand with the rest of the country via the narrow province of Prachuab Khiri Khan.

 

There is no alternative; you'll find that out if you attempt to use secondary roads coming up from Thab Sakae, you can only drive less than 20km north before the road ends in a coconut plantation and you're forced back onto the main highway.

And as far as I can remember, they started widening it to a Highway around 1993-94.

[Peterphuket]

24 minutes ago, Purdey said:

I have a petrol engineered roadster. No way I am giving that up. Over my cold, dead hands.

I myself drive a diesel and say the same as you but the diesel engines of the Japanese used here are not as clean as the ones used in Europe, unfortunately.

[Photoguy21]

20 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

And I bet, people are so 'fearful' of getting stuck on red, that they'll follow a line of at least 10 cars through on red as other traffic is already trying to get through....   in times of heavy traffic, this just causes absolute gridlock as no lane can move, the knock impact is that the junction further back then gets blocked...   this spreads city wide....   & why ???...  because no one respects the lights and its too hot (police are too lazy) to get out of their AC boxes and force cars to stop when the light is turning yellow... 

To give you an example of traffic lights, today I was out and crossed the road to a 7-11. The countdown was 20 seconds. Coming back maybe 5 minutes later from the other side the count down was 55 secs. They do not set the light to assist the flow of traffic. Kind of straight out of the box and leave it like that.

[vincent13]

On 3/27/2025 at 11:32 AM, Ralf001 said:

Where is "here" ?

 

In Chonburi province I find the traffic to be mostly ok, mild congestion around peak hours but thats about it.

Traffic congestion in Udon Thani gets worse every year. More vehicles but no new roads.

[Burma Bill]

For reference.

 

During my 20 years of retirement in Lanna (Phayao/Chiang Rai/Ching Mai), most of the modern rebuilding and improvements of major roads in Lanna were completed during Thaksin Sinawatra's terms as Thai PM. He brought money from Bangkok to invest in many Lanna infrastructure projects which brought agricultural, industrial and tourism wealth to the north of Thailand. 

 

[Presnock]

If you think that the traffic in BKK HAS BEEN bad, how about yesterday?  trains and highways around BKK shut down by government, malls after eveactuating shoppers, locked their doors and refused entry even for people to come get their cars parked at the Mall, plus condo buildings evacuated and their people too were out in the streets plus all traffic basically came to a standstill as the roads just became parking lots.  A horrible situation for many folks yesterday!  Hopefully now everything will be back to just crowded streets instead of parking lots only.