Gaza Paramedics Shot ‘With Intent to Kill,’ Red Crescent Demands International Probe

[Eloquent pilgrim]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And all without addressing the point I made.

 

 

Says the man who continually refuses to address the point I made about UNRWA; when this UN affiliated aid agency employs Hamas terrorists in disguise who took part in the atrocities of 7 October 2023, and then subsequently held wounded and dying hostages captive in their facilities in Gaza, how are the IDF supposed to differentiate between terrorists and civilians.

 

If civilians, and more disgustingly, aid workers, are actually terrorists, what do you expect the IDF to do in this war.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

 

Says the man who continually refuses to address the point I made about UNRWA; when this UN affiliated aid agency employs Hamas terrorists in disguise who took part in the atrocities of 7 October 2023, and then subsequently held wounded and dying hostages captive in their facilities in Gaza, how are the IDF supposed to differentiate between terrorists and civilians.

 

If civilians, and more disgustingly, aid workers, are actually terrorists, what do you expect the IDF to do in this war.

 

 

Because it’s an irrelevance.

 

There is no evidence that the slaughtered paramedics were members of Hamas.

 

Gaza Paramedics Shot ‘With Intent to Kill,’ Red Crescent Demands International Probe

[Jeff the Chef]

3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

How about when they are caught on video helping Hamas terrorists on Oct 7th? They wouldn't lie about that would they? After all a video has surfaced.

 

"The Palestinian Red Crescent assisted Hamas in the October 7 attack on Israel."

 

 

 

"The Palestinian Red Crescent assisted Hamas in the October 7 attack on Israel."

 

What is being shown here is a Hamas combatant who has been wounded being picked up by a Red Crescent Ambulance crew, all perfectly legal and complying with the International Humanitarian Law, in my opinion.

 

Respecting and Protecting Health Care in Armed Conflicts and in
Situations Not Covered by International Humanitarian Law

 

https://www.icrc.org/sites/default/files/document/file_list/health-care-law-factsheet-icrc-eng.pdf

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

"The Palestinian Red Crescent assisted Hamas in the October 7 attack on Israel."

 

What is being shown here is a Hamas combatant who has been wounded being picked up by a Red Crescent Ambulance crew, all perfectly legal and complying with the International Humanitarian Law, in my opinion.

 

Respecting and Protecting Health Care in Armed Conflicts and in
Situations Not Covered by International Humanitarian Law

 

https://www.icrc.org/sites/default/files/document/file_list/health-care-law-factsheet-icrc-eng.pdf

I can see what is being shown there thanks.

 

Can you also see what is being shown here.

 

"a Gaza Ministry of Health employee admitting that the Red Crescent is used by Hamas for their terrorist activities."

 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

15 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Respecting and Protecting Health Care in Armed Conflicts and in
Situations Not Covered by International Humanitarian Law

 

 

Another disgraceful attempt at justifying terrorism; it was not an armed conflict, it was a terrorist attack on innocent civilians … absolutely shameful

 

 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

53 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Because it’s an irrelevance.

 

There is no evidence that the slaughtered paramedics were members of Hamas.

 

Gaza Paramedics Shot ‘With Intent to Kill,’ Red Crescent Demands International Probe

 

This is deflection of Olympic standard; how can it possibly be an irrelevance ? Hamas terrorists working for, and controlling, the main aid agency in Gaza, UNRWA, is the reason that the IDF cannot trust any agency in Gaza not to be terrorists. If the UN’s main aid agency in Gaza has Hamas terrorists controlling it, how can any other agency be trusted not to be terrorists.

 

Nothing could possibly be more relevant to the topic than UNRWA’s abuse of its status as an aid agency, and you want to dismiss it as an irrelevance.

 

Your dismissive attitude towards terrorism, and relentless criticism of those trying to fight it is shameful.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

This is deflection of Olympic standard; how can it possibly be an irrelevance ? Hamas terrorists working for, and controlling, the main aid agency in Gaza, UNRWA, is the reason that the IDF cannot trust any agency in Gaza not to be terrorists. If the UN’s main aid agency in Gaza has Hamas terrorists controlling it, how can any other agency be trusted not to be terrorists.

 

Nothing could possibly be more relevant to the topic than UNRWA’s abuse of its status as an aid agency, and you want to dismiss it as an irrelevance.

 

Your dismissive attitude towards terrorism, and relentless criticism of those trying to fight it is shameful.

 

 

Again tortured logic.

 

Come back when you have credible evidence of the slaughtered paramedics being members of Hamas.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

19 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Again tortured logic.

 

Come back when you have credible evidence of the slaughtered paramedics being members of Hamas.

 

 

Where did anyone claim the slaughtered paramedics were members of Hamas? 

 

The IDF claim they killed 6 Hamas members. Out of the 15 killed we know that 6 were the Local Civil defense and one UNRWA operative. Until the IDf finish their side of the  investigations that all we have.

[Chomper Higgot]

I wonder why the IDF thought it necessary to bury the Ambulance(s)?

 

Perhaps that another aspect of this slaughter of Paramedics an international investigation can look into.

 

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I wonder why the IDF thought it necessary to bury the Ambulance(s)?

 

Perhaps that another aspect of this slaughter of Paramedics an international investigation can look into.

 

I also wonder why the IDF told the UN where the bodies and ambulance were buried? Lots of questions eh Chomper.

 

Hamas uses ambulances and more broadly human shields for terrorism. "President Trump understands the impossible situation this tactic creates for Israel and holds Hamas entirely responsible," Hughes said, according to Reuters.

https://www.newsweek.com/hamas-trump-gaza-nazis-israel-2056249

 

 

[josephbloggs]

14 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I wonder why the IDF thought it necessary to bury the Ambulance(s)?

 

In case the dogs ate them, remember? 

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

In case the dogs ate them, remember? 

Like this?

 

The situation in Gaza has become so dire that Palestinians have observed hungry dogs and cats eating dead bodies on the streets

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/israel-hamas-war-stray-dogs-eating-dead-on-gaza-streets-as-death-count-mounts-to-42-400-6807705

[Hanaguma]

Hamas has long used ambulances and other humanitarian symbols to further their disgusting goals.  It is a common tactic.  The families of those who were killed need to put the blame solely where it shoud reside- with Hamas. Plus the Hamas track record on accurately reporting casualties is less than good. 

Every dead Gazan is an advertisement for Hamas. Ask them why they wouldn't let Gazan civilians shelter in the massive tunnel network they built (with international aid money). Or why bunkers to hold weapons were built under schools, hospitals, and mosques. 

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Hamas has long used ambulances and other humanitarian symbols to further their disgusting goals.  It is a common tactic.  The families of those who were killed need to put the blame solely where it shoud reside- with Hamas. Plus the Hamas track record on accurately reporting casualties is less than good. 

Every dead Gazan is an advertisement for Hamas. Ask them why they wouldn't let Gazan civilians shelter in the massive tunnel network they built (with international aid money). Or why bunkers to hold weapons were built under schools, hospitals, and mosques. 

I think it’s an accepted principle that the prison who pulls the trigger is the killer.

 

 

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I think it’s an accepted principle that the prison who pulls the trigger is the killer.

 

 

Of course they are the killer. But they aren't responsible for the death. Much like when a hostage is tragically killed in a robbery or kidnapping. The robber or kidnapper is responsible, even though they did not pull the trigger themselves. 

 

Hamas is the same. THEY are the ones who put civilians in needless danger. They are responsible for what happens.  

[coolcarer]

22 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Hamas has long used ambulances and other humanitarian symbols to further their disgusting goals.  It is a common tactic.  The families of those who were killed need to put the blame solely where it shoud reside- with Hamas. Plus the Hamas track record on accurately reporting casualties is less than good. 

Every dead Gazan is an advertisement for Hamas. Ask them why they wouldn't let Gazan civilians shelter in the massive tunnel network they built (with international aid money). Or why bunkers to hold weapons were built under schools, hospitals, and mosques. 

Context on how and why this happened is important. It s not as easy as saying the person who pulled the trigger is the killer. You are right. Hamas using ambulances is a go to tactic for them in their murderous terror activities

 

 

“Al-Qassam has its own ambulances, some of which are located on the military base. The appearance of the ambulances is similar to the civilian ambulances so that they will not arouse suspicion or be bombed by Israel,” says one Hamas terrorist.
Another Hamas terrorist says that “during combat, the ambulances are used, among other things, to evacuate fighters, commanders and operatives. They also transport food, cargo and weapons in them because that is the safest way to transport them.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hamas-operative-says-i-can-go-out-with-whatever-ambulance-in-call-intercepted-by-idf/

[Chomper Higgot]

36 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Of course they are the killer. But they aren't responsible for the death. Much like when a hostage is tragically killed in a robbery or kidnapping. The robber or kidnapper is responsible, even though they did not pull the trigger themselves. 

 

Hamas is the same. THEY are the ones who put civilians in needless danger. They are responsible for what happens.  

The argument you are making is that the IDF are somehow relieved of any responsibility for the gunning down of these paramedics.

 

Though it seems the IDF themselves are not so sure, having buried the evidence and lied about the circumstances.

 

The Red Crescent’s call for an international investigation of this slaughter is entirely reasonable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

30 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The argument you are making is that the IDF are somehow relieved of any responsibility for the gunning down of these paramedics.

 

A mistake of war...   The IDF are of course responsible. But, its understandable that such a 'mistake' has been made.

 

Its not proven that there were any Hamas terrorist amongst the dead, neither is it proven there were not. 

 

30 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Though it seems the IDF themselves are not so sure, having buried the evidence and lied about the circumstances.

 

It would seem they were covering their tracks, at least 'some' of the deal were real Paramedics - I suspect it was this the IDF attempted to hide, perhaps due to the inexperience of a younger crew and knowing that many will blame them for such an error.

 

30 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The Red Crescent’s call for an international investigation of this slaughter is entirely reasonable.

 

Agreed - they also need to 'name their dead' and confirm that all of them were not Hamas terrorist - this also needs outside verification which is extremely difficult to do. 

 

Then there is the possibility that Hamas terrorists may actually be masquerading as Paramedics.

 

All part of the smoke and mirrors of warfare - nothing is clear cut as onlookers want it to be so we can draw our conclusions without ambiguity. 

 

[Hanaguma]

42 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The argument you are making is that the IDF are somehow relieved of any responsibility for the gunning down of these paramedics.

 

Though it seems the IDF themselves are not so sure, having buried the evidence and lied about the circumstances.

 

The Red Crescent’s call for an international investigation of this slaughter is entirely reasonable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sh!t happens in a war. Especially when one side are dirtbag terrorists who hide behind civilians and use civilian vehicles and aid vehicles for cover. 

 

The IDF didnt just shoot them up for the hell of it. They did so for the very valid reason that Hamas specializes in blending in amongst civilians and aid workers. 

[Jeff the Chef]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

I can see what is being shown there thanks.

 

Can you also see what is being shown here.

 

"a Gaza Ministry of Health employee admitting that the Red Crescent is used by Hamas for their terrorist activities."

 

 

So you ignore the Custom and Practice of The International Committee of the Red Cross. founded in 1863, incorporating The Red Crescent in 1876, Nobel Peace Prize winners in 1917,1944 and 1963.

 

Since June 2006, Magen David Adom has been officially recognized by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) as the national aid society of the State of Israel under the Geneva Conventions, and a member of the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Society. 

 

I question both of your posted clips, the first one of the Hamas combatant being picked-up, and clearly wounded,  as a casualty from The Erez Crossing, by the Red Crescent.

 

The other clip of Hamuda Riad Asad Shamalahis is clearly while he is in Israeli custody, which I wouldn't question if it was independently verifiable that it was not taken under duress.

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

So you ignore the Custom and Practice of The International Committee of the Red Cross. founded in 1863, incorporating The Red Crescent in 1876, Nobel Peace Prize winners in 1917,1944 and 1963.

 

Since June 2006, Magen David Adom has been officially recognized by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) as the national aid society of the State of Israel under the Geneva Conventions, and a member of the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Society. 

 

I question both of your posted clips, the first one of the Hamas combatant being picked-up, and clearly wounded,  as a casualty from The Erez Crossing, by the Red Crescent.

 

The other clip of Hamuda Riad Asad Shamalahis is clearly while he is in Israeli custody, which I wouldn't question if it was independently verifiable that it was not taken under duress.

Of course you question the evidence provided. I would expect nothing less from you. Video evidence only counts if its against something Israel does.

 

Now can you tell me what the Red Cross winning the Nobel peace prize in 1917,1944 and 1963 got to do with Hamas?

[Jeff the Chef]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Of course you question the evidence provided. I would expect nothing less from you. Video evidence only counts if its against something Israel does.

 

Your opinion , not mine, more than willing to accept any Independently verified evidence, not the one sided ones that any unbiased neutral would question, never mind a Court of Law.

 

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

 

Now can you tell me what the Red Cross winning the Nobel peace prize in 1917,1944 and 1963 got to do with Hamas?

 

It is not me who has chosen to ignore Internationally recognise protocol, I was hoping information on the history of the ICRC might help you change your position. 

[Bkk Brian]

42 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Your opinion , not mine, more than willing to accept any Independently verified evidence, not the one sided ones that any unbiased neutral would question, never mind a Court of Law.

 

 

It is not me who has chosen to ignore Internationally recognise protocol, I was hoping information on the history of the ICRC might help you change your position. 

This has nothing to do with the Red Cross winning nobel prizes or International protocol or history. You can stop the off topic diversion.

 

This is about terrorists infiltrating Red Crescent ambulances. The same way they infilrated the UN, which was also captured by video and the  kidnapping of dead bodies.

 

Even the hostages released from Gaza state the same.

 

Former hostage Hagar Brodutch has revealed harrowing details of her abduction and captivity by Hamas terrorists in Gaza, including the transportation of hostages in ambulances across the territory.

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/survivor-testimonies/artc-released-captive-reveals-hamas-moves-hostages-across-gaza-in-ambulances

[Jeff the Chef]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

This has nothing to do with the Red Cross winning nobel prizes or International protocol or history. You can stop the off topic diversion.

 

This is about terrorists infiltrating Red Crescent ambulances. The same way they infilrated the UN, which was also captured by video and the  kidnapping of dead bodies.

 

Even the hostages released from Gaza state the same.

 

Former hostage Hagar Brodutch has revealed harrowing details of her abduction and captivity by Hamas terrorists in Gaza, including the transportation of hostages in ambulances across the territory.

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/survivor-testimonies/artc-released-captive-reveals-hamas-moves-hostages-across-gaza-in-ambulances

 

I'm more than willing to wait for the outcome of this investigation: 

 

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) initially denied targeting ambulances, claiming troops fired on vehicles believed to be carrying Hamas militants. However, following the release of video evidence, the IDF admitted its earlier account was “mistaken” but maintained that six of those killed had links to Hamas—a claim for which no evidence has been provided.

Lt. Gen. Eyal Zamir, Israel’s army chief, has ordered a deeper investigation into the incident after an initial review concluded that troops acted out of a “sense of threat

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

52 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

I'm more than willing to wait for the outcome of this investigation: 

 

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) initially denied targeting ambulances, claiming troops fired on vehicles believed to be carrying Hamas militants. However, following the release of video evidence, the IDF admitted its earlier account was “mistaken” but maintained that six of those killed had links to Hamas—a claim for which no evidence has been provided.

Lt. Gen. Eyal Zamir, Israel’s army chief, has ordered a deeper investigation into the incident after an initial review concluded that troops acted out of a “sense of threat

 

 

ok  good for you, go ahead and wait, in the mean time the matter of ambulances being used by the terrorists has plenty of evidence from previous incidents which is what I was posting about and provides context to the current incident and how the IDF have to be careful

 

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Former hostage Hagar Brodutch has revealed harrowing details of her abduction and captivity by Hamas terrorists in Gaza, including the transportation of hostages in ambulances across the territory.

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/survivor-testimonies/artc-released-captive-reveals-hamas-moves-hostages-across-gaza-in-ambulances

 

[Nick Carter icp]

13 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

I'm more than willing to wait for the outcome of this investigation: 

 

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) initially denied targeting ambulances, claiming troops fired on vehicles believed to be carrying Hamas militants. However, following the release of video evidence, the IDF admitted its earlier account was “mistaken” but maintained that six of those killed had links to Hamas—a claim for which no evidence has been provided.

Lt. Gen. Eyal Zamir, Israel’s army chief, has ordered a deeper investigation into the incident after an initial review concluded that troops acted out of a “sense of threat

 

   Isn't that news from a week ago ?

There doesn't seem to any new news there 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Your opinion , not mine, more than willing to accept any Independently verified evidence, not the one sided ones that any unbiased neutral would question, never mind a Court of Law.

 

 

   Are you somebody important ?

You are speaking as if you were the top Judge at the ICJ

I will get Netanyahu to call you tomorrow to explain everything , then you and Trump can decide what to do next 

[Jeff the Chef]

13 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Are you somebody important ?

You are speaking as if you were the top Judge at the ICJ

I will get Netanyahu to call you tomorrow to explain everything , then you and Trump can decide what to do next 

 

Best stay quiet Nick, you're obviously in over your head

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

A mistake of war...   The IDF are of course responsible. But, its understandable that such a 'mistake' has been made.

 

Its not proven that there were any Hamas terrorist amongst the dead, neither is it proven there were not. 

 

 

It would seem they were covering their tracks, at least 'some' of the deal were real Paramedics - I suspect it was this the IDF attempted to hide, perhaps due to the inexperience of a younger crew and knowing that many will blame them for such an error.

 

 

Agreed - they also need to 'name their dead' and confirm that all of them were not Hamas terrorist - this also needs outside verification which is extremely difficult to do. 

 

Then there is the possibility that Hamas terrorists may actually be masquerading as Paramedics.

 

All part of the smoke and mirrors of warfare - nothing is clear cut as onlookers want it to be so we can draw our conclusions without ambiguity. 

 

So we are agreed, an international investigation is in order.

[coolcarer]

.

It's a historical fact unfortunately. Hamas using ambulances was even claimed by Mahmoud Abbas the president of the Palestinian Authority back in 2009 as evidenced in the vid below! It will never change until Hamas are no longer in power in Gaza and more incidents will occur as a result. This is not the first tragic incident since Oct 7th and will not be the last. The same as Hamas will carry on using hospitals and UN shelters. Incidents will carry on in those locations. 

This is NOT the first time Hamas has exploited ambulances for terrorism.