What would it actually take to elevate Thailand?

[NorthernRyland]

Before you think about changing Isaan have you considered it could get worse than it is now? In my experience developed Thailand is getting worse not better. One of the charms of Thailand is the less developed areas which are like stepping back in time. You can ride around a motorbike see people faces outside selling things, enjoy the meandering roads with no rhyme or reason, little shops everywhere and things to explore.

 

Compare this how to Chiang Mai is developing. All the "progress" here has been wider busier roads with barriers and u-turns, long red lights , concreted over housing projects and big box stores like Big C, HomePro, car dealerships etc... all the trees get cut down and big power lines go up.

 

This is looks like an industrial wasteland to me. Ugly as hell. Here's where I have to go to if I want to go to a grocery store and get imported food products. Traffic is terrible and there's very little parking leaving you driving around. It's a horrible experience, too car centric and much worse than America now even.

 

There's even some condo buildings on that intersection ahead. Imagine living in a tiny concrete box and listening to traffic noise all day and night. One the right side you could see the mountain in the background mocking you. This is no way to live but it's the reality of developing Thailand for many.

 

[Cameroni]

12 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

This is looks like an industrial wasteland to me.

 

Of course there are beautiful parts of CM, San Kamphaeng, San Sai, some parts of the city centre have charm of 1000 years of history.

 

Every city has highways, it's a bit much to criticise a city for that.

[NorthernRyland]

3 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Of course there are beautiful parts of CM, San Kamphaeng, San Sai, some parts of the city centre have charm of 1000 years of history.

 

Every city has highways, it's a bit much to criticise a city for that.

 

Yes it does have nice parts but they're vanishing as it develops and you get ghettoized in this areas unless you want to cross into the ugly parts. Basically the "good" parts of Chiang Mai are the ones that haven't been developed. It's on an obvious downward trend and the reason I had to move out because it was really getting me down and still does when I need to go back in to do errands.

[richard_smith237]

36 minutes ago, Sierra Tango said:

Yeah, right Richard and you believe these so called studies? I bet you did and in depth (excuse the pun) analysis of the penis size study, by country and wished to God that your country was in the top ten, right?

Don't believe any of the crap pedaled by the media, social or other wise until you can have it verified.

 

Wow.....   that struck a nerve !!..       

 

Seems you are interested in penises...  I've nothing against gay guys...  whatever floats your boat... 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

Good topic. Not sure why people take offence - as though prosperity and good and effective governance could  destroy the culture. Might make the girls less likely to take on an older expat so there's that.  The no 1 thing for me as an example of what's wrong is pollution. You lose faith in the people's sense of their nation  if they wont fight hard as hell to have clean air and other forms such as the rubbish around the place. Shows they don't  have faith in their own worth and ability to influence the powers that be. 

[Cameroni]

10 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

 

Yes it does have nice parts but they're vanishing as it develops and you get ghettoized in this areas unless you want to cross into the ugly parts. Basically the "good" parts of Chiang Mai are the ones that haven't been developed. It's on an obvious downward trend and the reason I had to move out because it was really getting me down and still does when I need to go back in to do errands.

 

I get what you mean. Some of these developments are beautiful in themselves though, not all Mooban, but some are notorious for their luxurious living. But I do agree some of the more "organic" places have the most charm. It is so. Maybe you just needed a change.

[Sierra Tango]

41 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Wow.....   that struck a nerve !!..       

 

Seems you are interested in penises...  I've nothing against gay guys...  whatever floats your boat... 

 

 

 

 

 

No, no nerves struck Ricky, You really do present your self as a know it all knob. Any gay inferences as a put down, by your self, may also present an inferiorority complex on your side darling.

[NorthernRyland]

21 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

I get what you mean. Some of these developments are beautiful in themselves though, not all Mooban, but some are notorious for their luxurious living. But I do agree some of the more "organic" places have the most charm. It is so. Maybe you just needed a change.

 

yeah I just don't want to live like that anymore. The places I used to like are gobbled up in big roads and I felt trapped.

 

Speaking of that, this "luxury" project is up the street from that intersection. 9.9 million baht. That's around $330,000 USD, not small money. This is how you're living as a wealthy Thai in Chiang Mai I guess. I don't know what makes it luxury but you're still on that road living that lifestyle. I think Thai's are running in to the same trap as Americans did and it's getting ugly out there.

 

[Sierra Tango]

We bought into a gated, golf resort, housing development back in the early days.

We didn't ever get to meet everyone in the village of course, but it was generally made up of Thais with a few farang thai couples in the mix. The Thai couples, anecdotedly, had big morgatges, you know, the 30 year, sell your soul to the devil / bank type yet, talking to many of them over the years we lived there, it was all for show, to save face for family, to appear better off than even their brothers or sisters and definitely the people that they worked with.

[save the frogs]

<>

[FritsSikkink]

10 hours ago, Krillin said:

What would it take, and how long would it take, to elevate Thailand from its current state to one comparable to Japan or South Korea?

 

I have been living here in Isaan for nearly a year. The economy seems to be largely tourist-based, the political landscape seems to be unstable at best, sloppiness and corruption seem, from others' reports, to characterize law enforcement and bureaucracy. STDs and illegal drugs are everywhere, and the rate of infidelity ranks among the highest in the world. Much of the population lives in poverty, draconian laws with equally draconian punishments are still in place, and animal welfare is on almost nobody's radar. Infrastructure is poor, and many people do not have ready access to potable water. To top it off, the country suffers from a reputation (earned or not I will let you decide) as a place for visitors from wealthier nations to visit, cause problems, and leave.

 

What would be the fastest, most effective means toward elevating the country toward a safer, more prosperous existence? Does a way even exist, or is it too late at this point?

Looks like you know very little about South Korea.

[josephbloggs]

12 minutes ago, Sierra Tango said:

We bought into a gated, golf resort, housing development back in the early days.

We didn't ever get to meet everyone in the village of course, but it was generally made up of Thais with a few farang thai couples in the mix. The Thai couples, anecdotedly, had big morgatges, you know, the 30 year, sell your soul to the devil / bank type yet, talking to many of them over the years we lived there, it was all for show, to save face for family, to appear better off than even their brothers or sisters and definitely the people that they worked with.

Wow, you really had many deep, meaningful, and financially sensitive conversations with your Thais neighbours.

[NorthernRyland]

28 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

<>

I concure.

[Sierra Tango]

9 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Wow, you really had many deep, meaningful, and financially sensitive conversations with your Thais neighbours.

What is with the "wow" you <deleted> retard? The clue was in "anecdotally" . Not deep, meaningful research. Casual conversation over many years, between groups of neighbours and friends.

[NorthernRyland]

33 minutes ago, Sierra Tango said:

We bought into a gated, golf resort, housing development back in the early days.

We didn't ever get to meet everyone in the village of course, but it was generally made up of Thais with a few farang thai couples in the mix. The Thai couples, anecdotedly, had big morgatges, you know, the 30 year, sell your soul to the devil / bank type yet, talking to many of them over the years we lived there, it was all for show, to save face for family, to appear better off than even their brothers or sisters and definitely the people that they worked with.

I see this too. It's all the same as the people back home. If given the chance they're all going to go down the same paths.

[Cameroni]

58 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

 

yeah I just don't want to live like that anymore. The places I used to like are gobbled up in big roads and I felt trapped.

 

Speaking of that, this "luxury" project is up the street from that intersection. 9.9 million baht. That's around $330,000 USD, not small money. This is how you're living as a wealthy Thai in Chiang Mai I guess. I don't know what makes it luxury but you're still on that road living that lifestyle. I think Thai's are running in to the same trap as Americans did and it's getting ugly out there.

 

 

 

Yah, it's definitely nicer when the mooban is embedded in a real community rather than on the side of some intersection. 

 

I prefer the charm of old lived in neighbourhoods as well. They still exist in CM. San Pakoi for instance

[GammaGlobulin]

In order to elevate Thailand to the level of Japan, then one would need to allow immigration from Japan to Thailand.

 

The only problem with this might be that Japan's population is severely dwindling, by the year.

 

The Japanese men are unwilling or unable to procreate enough in their own country to keep their population viable.

 

Maybe we should send Thai men to Japan in order to impregnate Japanese women, in order to increase the population of Japan enough so that....

Finally, the newly born Japanese could return to Thailand, in order to ELEVATE things around here.

 

Just a strange thought, in response to a very strange Topic.

 

 

[BangkokReady]

3 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

3 hours ago, worgeordie said:

and nobody bothers you ..at least me they don't

Not being bothered is a really underrated perk of Thailand.

 

I don't know if it's a quirk of the competitive and individualistic nature of the West, but it does seem like messing with other people and having some sort of impact on their lives is very popular.  It's like people either want to directly bother people, or they need them to validate their life in some way, just to make them feel good.

 

Whilst you do get people in Thailand that care about their image and what people think of them, you rarely get the feeling that they want to inflict something on others as part of it.

[BangkokReady]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

So, while the mongers may consider development not ideal for themselves, fearing 'access to cheap sex and happy endings' may diminish, the reality is that its better for the Thai's....   and that can only be a good thing for them.

 

You need to factor in whether being "free" actually makes people happy.  Quite often, people in "less free" countries are happy due to not having to think too much and the method of control being direct/non-emotional.  Countries where the method of control is more covert are often unhappy, as they need to be manipulated emotionally because they are "more free".

[BangkokReady]

2 hours ago, Cameroni said:

Nobody wants to live in Japan, with its draconian police model.

 

Also, the Japanese are expected to work ridiculously long hours.

[Sierra Tango]

2 hours ago, Sierra Tango said:

Yeah, right Richard and you believe these so called studies? I bet you did and in depth (excuse the pun) analysis of the penis size study, by country and wished to God that your country was in the top ten, right?

Don't believe any of the crap pedaled by the media, social or other wise until you can have it verified.

Oh, please stop withe the confused emojies. you really belittel your selves with nothing to contribute other than a childish display.

[BangkokReady]

36 minutes ago, Sierra Tango said:

What is with the "wow" you <deleted> retard?

 

I think it's because you took it a little far with the "30 years mortgage", like that was something unusual that means their life is fake.  Lots of people have very long mortgages, so it isn't really an indicator of anything.

 

You're being quite rude about what other people are saying, so this prompts the expectation that the insights you share will be pretty high quality.

 

Possibly have a think about how to engage with others in a slightly more open, objective and friendly way.

[Sierra Tango]

5 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

 

I think it's because you took it a little far with the "30 years mortgage", like that was something unusual that means their life is fake.  Lots of people have very long mortgages, so it isn't really an indicator of anything.

 

You're being quite rude about what other people are saying, so this prompts the expectation that the insights you share will be pretty high quality.

 

Possibly have a think about how to engage with others in a slightly more open, objective and friendly way.

Thanks for your advice. Duly noted regarding alledged rudeness however, quite mild in conderation of previous charachter assasination attempts. 

My insight into mortgages etc with my Thai friends and neigbours are true and yes, not only expentationaly but actually pretty high quality. 

And you, kind sir, may have a think about how you may avoid making such rediculous assertions upon someone that you have never met or are most unlikely to ever meet. (Note to self,. File under Least likely to succeed Gelded Cretin.)

 

Oh my god, I am exhuasted now, please forgive my spelling and garmmar!

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, Sierra Tango said:

What is with the "wow" you <deleted> retard? The clue was in "anecdotally" . Not deep, meaningful research. Casual conversation over many years, between groups of neighbours and friends.

Oh dear. But you said "The Thai couples, anecdotedly, had big morgatges, you know, the 30 year, sell your soul to the devil / bank type yet, talking to many of them over the years we lived there, it was all for show, to save face for family, to appear better off than even their brothers or sisters and definitely the people that they worked with."

So yes, you had some deep meaningful conversations to know that they bought houses to save face, to appear better off than their brothers and sisters etc. So you did have those conversations, right? About the reason for buying their house? And they told you they sold their soul to appear better than then brothers and sisters.

Ludicrous.

And, as someone else has already replied, a 30 year mortgage is unusual?

[Cameroni]

36 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

 

Also, the Japanese are expected to work ridiculously long hours.

 

Yes, and imagine if you had to deal with Japanese girls instead of Thai girls. 

 

Kill me now.

[Mike_Hunt]

5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Are you suggesting that all the Thai's you have spoken to would not like....

 

- Access to better education

- Free access to potable water

- Improved Safety standards (generally and road safety)

- Reduction in Corruption

- Improved social Mobility

- Social Welfare Systems in place

etc, etc... 

 

 

Most Thai people have no idea how things work in the rest of the world.  That they have is normal to them. 

[nick supreme]

6 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Thailands infidelity stats have been discussed here a few times over the years... 

 

 

 

 

1. Thailand, 2. Denmark, 3. Germany, 4. Italy, 5. France, 6.Norway, 7. Belgium, 8. Spain, 9. Finland, 10. United Kingdom, 11. Canada, 12. Greece, 13. Luxembourg, 14. Austria, 15. Brazil, 16. Iceland, 17. Netherlands, 18. Portugal, 19. Sweden, 20. United States, 21. Argentina, 22. Australia, 23. Bahamas, 24. Croatia, 25. Cyprus.

 

Interesting. 

[nick supreme]

5 hours ago, Sierra Tango said:

Yeah, right Richard and you believe these so called studies? I bet you did and in depth (excuse the pun) analysis of the penis size study, by country and wished to God that your country was in the top ten, right?

Don't believe any of the crap pedaled by the media, social or other wise until you can have it verified.

Link please.

[nick supreme]

2 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Oh dear. But you said "The Thai couples, anecdotedly, had big morgatges, you know, the 30 year, sell your soul to the devil / bank type yet, talking to many of them over the years we lived there, it was all for show, to save face for family, to appear better off than even their brothers or sisters and definitely the people that they worked with."

So yes, you had some deep meaningful conversations to know that they bought houses to save face, to appear better off than their brothers and sisters etc. So you did have those conversations, right? About the reason for buying their house? And they told you they sold their soul to appear better than then brothers and sisters.

Ludicrous.

And, as someone else has already replied, a 30 year mortgage is unusual?

IT could be worse.

 

Mortgage lengths vary significantly by country. In the US, the average mortgage term is 30 years. Canada typically has a 25-year amortization period with 5-year fixed-rate terms, and mortgages are renegotiated every 5 years. The UK offers mortgages up to 35 years, with some lenders offering 40-year terms, and potentially even 50-year terms in the future. Japan has a diverse range of mortgage durations, including 100-year mortgages, and also offers convertible mortgages. 

[blaze master]

15 hours ago, Krillin said:

What would it take

 

The return of Buddha.