Why Zelensky Won’t Bargain Away Crimea — No Matter the Pressure

[BLMFem]

7 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Ok, ignore Zaporazhia, the Crimea, Odessa....

 

I'll be happy to give you a reading list. Try https://images.app.goo.gl/rfBYybWPCRKbnWJD8

And I'd be happy if you said that to one of the Ukrainian soldiers fighting in the trenches against the Russian orc invaders.

I'm sure he'd be more than willing to "wisen you up."

[anandra]

On 4/25/2025 at 7:08 AM, impulse said:

I see we have a bunch of the "willing to fight down to the last dead Ukrainian" guys here. 

 

Crimea was lost.  It's not coming back without WW3, a NATO ground war and possible nuclear Armageddon.  (Under Obama, I may add).  So was the Donbass.  (Under Biden)

 

The dying needs to stop, and the reconstruction needs to start.

 

Edit:  My biggest concern is that Zelenskyy's intransigence will eventually force Putin to go all the way to Kiev.  Or kill another few million trying.

 

no, to the last alcoruski, as they have been dying three to one during all this war, poo will die anyway soon as the American red joke, and everything will be in different way

[Yagoda]

47 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

And I'd be happy if you said that to one of the Ukrainian soldiers fighting in the trenches against the Russian orc invaders.

I'm sure he'd be more than willing to "wisen you up."

Of course, Ukrainians are notorious for killing civilians, especially the elderly, women and children.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

No bullying involved, just offering a way to end it, before the USA, stops supporting UA.

 

And if wanting any other help, for whatever, defense or rebuilding, it won't be free.   Take or leave it.

 

It's Europe's problem now, as it always should have been.  USA should have never got involved in the first place.

 

You're on your own now ... Good Luck 

Anyone with any common sense knows Trump is on the side of Putin and was bullying Zelinsky.

It's also clear that's Trump is deluded enough to believe Putin is his friend and he obviously detests Zelinsky for refusing to participate in his sleazy gambit against Biden.

As far as whether Putin's poodle Trump actually cuts everything off after he bullied Zelinsky, yes he is threatening that. But if he does that the civilized world will blame him for any negative consequences from that forever. You don't know if he's bluffing or not.

It would be ideal to not have anything to do with the U.S. but unfortunately the EU isn't ready.

In case you think I'm partisan on this -- nope.

I have criticized Biden many times for helping Ukraine enough to only to hold on and never to win.

So Biden's timidity set the table for Trump's horrible betrayal. 

[BLMFem]

15 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Of course, Ukrainians are notorious for killing civilians, especially the elderly, women and children.

Yes, it's the Ukrainians who are the bad guys here, just like it was the Cambodian population that was at fault for angering the Khmer Rouge.

Absolutely.

[Will B Good]

19 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Of course, Ukrainians are notorious for killing civilians, especially the elderly, women and children.

“Ukrainians are notorious for killing civilians” — echoes Russian propaganda themes, well done

 

Russian state media has for years portrayed Ukrainians as “Nazis” who kill civilians — all part of their justification for the current invasion.

[BLMFem]

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Anyone with any common sense knows Trump is on the side of Putin and was bullying Zelinsky.

It's also clear that's Trump is deluded enough to believe Putin is his friend and he obviously detests Zelinsky for refusing to participate in his sleazy gambit against Biden.

As far as whether Putin's poodle Trump actually cuts everything off after he bullied Zelinsky, yes he is threatening that. But if he does that the civilized world will blame him for any negative consequences from that forever. You don't know if he's bluffing or not.

It would be ideal to not have anything to do with the U.S. but unfortunately the EU isn't ready.

In case you think I'm partisan on this -- nope.

I have criticized Biden many times for helping Ukraine enough to only to hold on and never to win.

So Biden's timidity set the table for Trump's horrible betrayal. 

Agree completely. Biden should have given Zelensky all the tools necessary to wipe out the orcs. It's very likely Putin wouldn't have survived such a stinging loss.

[jas007]

1 hour ago, sharot724 said:

Saying vlad is going to nuke us all is the sillyest scare monger ever. Grow some....

How do you know he won't?  Once a war gets started in earnest, there's no telling what will happen.  And surely, you must understand why Russia needs a buffer zone.  Part of its strategic defense system lies within easy striking distance of any missiles placed in Eastern Ukraine.  Hence the sensitivity over NATO, especially after the cancellation of the intermediate range missile nuclear forces (INF) treaty by Trump during his first term.  He got some bad advice on that, obviously, but it's all now history.  Ukraine is in Russia's back yard and within the Russian sphere of influence.  No different than if Russia or China would amass missiles and armies in Tijuana or Juarez, Mexico.  The USA wouldn't put up with that for more than a few minutes.  It wouldn't even be allowed to happen.

 

So, telling me to "grow some" is telling me that I shouldn't care about the future of humanity.  I do, and Im sure about 8 billion other people would agree with me.  

 

Crimea is now part of Russia, once again.  And parts of the Donbas are now also part of Russia.  

 

Territorial nation states have been at war just about forever.  That's the way territories are gained and lost.  That's the way existing countries have been formed.  That's reality.  International law is all well and good, but in the final analysis, it doesn't much matter.  

 

 

[jas007]

1 hour ago, sharot724 said:

Saying vlad is going to nuke us all is the sillyest scare monger ever. Grow some....

How do you know he won't?  Once a war gets started in earnest, there's no telling what will happen.  And surely, you must understand why Russia needs a buffer zone.  Part of its strategic defense system lies within easy striking distance of any missiles placed in Eastern Ukraine.  Hence the sensitivity over NATO, especially after the cancellation of the intermediate range missile nuclear forces (INF) treaty by Trump during his first term.  He got some bad advice on that, obviously, but it's all now history.  Ukraine is in Russia's back yard and within the Russian sphere of influence.  No different than if Russia or China would amass missiles and armies in Tijuana or Juarez, Mexico.  The USA wouldn't put up with that for more than a few minutes.  It wouldn't even be allowed to happen.

 

So, telling me to "grow some" is telling me that I shouldn't care about the future of humanity.  I do, and Im sure about 8 billion other people would agree with me.  

 

Crimea is now part of Russia, once again.  And parts of the Donbas are now also part of Russia.  

 

Territorial nation states have been at war just about forever.  That's the way territories are gained and lost.  That's the way existing countries have been formed.  That's reality.  International law is all well and good, but in the final analysis, it doesn't much matter.  

 

 

[BLMFem]

11 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

“Ukrainians are notorious for killing civilians” — echoes Russian propaganda themes, well done

 

Russian state media has for years portrayed Ukrainians as “Nazis” who kill civilians — all part of their justification for the current invasion.

These threads do act as a reminder of what kind creatures live in the sewer.

[BLMFem]

2 minutes ago, jas007 said:

How do you know he won't?  Once a war gets started in earnest, there's no telling what will happen.  And surely, you must understand why Russia needs a buffer zone.  Part of its strategic defense system lies within easy striking distance of any missiles placed in Eastern Ukraine.  Hence the sensitivity over NATO, especially after the cancellation of the intermediate range missile nuclear forces (INF) treaty by Trump during his first term.  He got some bad advice on that, obviously, but it's all now history.  Ukraine is in Russia's back yard and within the Russian sphere of influence.  No different than if Russia or China would amass missiles and armies in Tijuana or Juarez, Mexico.  The USA wouldn't put up with that for more than a few minutes.  It wouldn't even be allowed to happen.

 

So, telling me to "grow some" is telling me that I shouldn't care about the future of humanity.  I do, and Im sure about 8 billion other people would agree with me.  

 

Crimea is now part of Russia, once again.  And parts of the Donbas are now also part of Russia.  

 

Territorial nation states have been at war just about forever.  That's the way territories are gained and lost.  That's the way existing countries have been formed.  That's reality.  International law is all well and good, but in the final analysis, it doesn't much matter.  

 

 

What final analysis would that be?

[jas007]

10 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

What final analysis would that be?

The "final analysis" of how the world and its countries came to be.  

 

In case you haven't noticed, that's the way it works.  How many examples do you need?  

 

Practically no country on earth wasn't formed by way of some conflict.  That's history.   

[BLMFem]

5 minutes ago, jas007 said:

The "final analysis" of how the world and its countries came to be.  

 

In case you haven't noticed, that's the way it works.  How many examples do you need?  

 

Practically no country on earth wasn't formed by way of some conflict.  That's history.   

Yes, and?

[Yagoda]

36 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

“Ukrainians are notorious for killing civilians” — echoes Russian propaganda themes, well done

 

Russian state media has for years portrayed Ukrainians as “Nazis” who kill civilians — all part of their justification for the current invasion.

Well they got a good responsibility for 1.5 million at least.

[Mavideol]

1 hour ago, Yagoda said:

Of course, Ukrainians are notorious for killing civilians, especially the elderly, women and children.

and I am quite sure you have proof of that, don't you, please share with us

[Rob Browder]

20 hours ago, rough diamond said:

Please provide non RT/Russian propaganda links for each of your outrageous statements.

"Prove your Facts with a proven lies-about-everything MSM source?  This reminds me of the methods used during Covid - where everything we were told was ALSO a big fat lie. 

 

Russia sometimes "omits" things which don't make them look good, but is not known to lie outright as Ukraine has - over, and over, and over again.

[Rob Browder]

20 hours ago, Will B Good said:

 

You're right....they should have gone in with tanks, missiles, drones and foreign soldiers.......no messing about.

Yes, in hindsight, Russia should have done that immediately after the early-elections were blocked by the anti-democratic Western coup-regime - just as the USA would, if similar was being carried-out by Russia or China in Mexico. 

 

Putin trusting that the "West" would EVER act in good faith was a mistake.  But, at least now, after Merkel ADMITTED Minsk was just a trick to buy time to build up the Ukrainian military - erasing all doubt about the duplicity - they will hopefully not be so naive, again.

[Rob Browder]

22 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

and I am quite sure you have proof of that, don't you, please share with us

See the shelling of civilian areas - homes, schools, etc - in the Donbass - 2014-2022.  After Russia's entry into this civil-war, they continued hitting civilian areas with things like "petal mines" - designed to blow one's foot off. 

 

Meanwhile, every time we watch a video of a Ukrainian "air-defense" missile going up, then back down on their own people, the "media" tells us "Russia targeted civilians" where it landed.  No retraction is ever made - even when pictures show that the missile-pieces were from the type Ukraine was using.

 

Remember when "Assad gassed his own people"?   Then, the UN folks who were on-site reveal it wasn't true?  Same same lies, from the same sort of liars.  Why would anyone EVER believe anything they say or print.

[BLMFem]

25 minutes ago, Rob Browder said:

"Prove your Facts with a proven lies-about-everything MSM source?  This reminds me of the methods used during Covid - where everything we were told was ALSO a big fat lie. 

 

Russia sometimes "omits" things which don't make them look good, but is not known to lie outright as Ukraine has - over, and over, and over again.

So the "we're not gonna invade Ukraine" was not a lie, it was an omission???😂

[Yagoda]

44 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

and I am quite sure you have proof of that, don't you, please share with us

https://www.amazon.com/Holocaust-Bullets-Priests-Journey-Uncover/dp/0230606172

 

You can start there

[LosLobo]

1 hour ago, jas007 said:

The "final analysis" of how the world and its countries came to be.  

 

In case you haven't noticed, that's the way it works.  How many examples do you need?  

 

Practically no country on earth wasn't formed by way of some conflict.  That's history.   

PICTURE THIS:

 

Someone wants your vacation home.

They're bigger. They're stronger.

They beat you up.

They throw you out.

 

You call the cops.

 

Policeman Trump shows up.

He shrugs, and says:

 

'Be reasonable.

You started this.

 

In the final analysis of how the world came to be —

justice doesn’t win; power does.

 

I hold all the cards.

 

— And you need to thank me.'

 

 

[jas007]

8 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

PICTURE THIS:

 

Someone wants your vacation home.

They're bigger. They're stronger.

They beat you up.

They throw you out.

 

You call the cops.

 

Policeman Trump shows up.

He shrugs, and says:

 

'Be reasonable.

You started this.

 

In the final analysis of how the world came to be —

justice doesn’t win; power does.

 

I hold all the cards.

 

— And you need to thank me.'

 

 

I'm not making any moral judgments about right and wrong.  I'm just explaining how the world works.  The USA is as guilty of this type of behavior as any other country.  And in this case, Trump realizes the futility of trying to be the world's policeman.  

 

As for who "started" the Ukraine war?  We all know that story.  The Neocons, Victoria Nuland, the 2014 overthrow of a democratically elected government by way of Neocon meddling, etc.   That's their typical mode of operation.  Do you need a list?  

 

I don't like it any more than you do, but I'm not the one in charge.  I haven't been running the show for the past 75 years. 

[Rhys]

More lives, more funds, more of the same..

[LosLobo]

53 minutes ago, jas007 said:

And in this case, Trump realizes the futility of trying to be the world's policeman.  

As for who "started" the Ukraine war?  We all know that story.  The Neocons,

So you're contradicting your leader now?
He blamed Zelensky — not the Neocons.

That's blasphemy.
Your penance: 100 Hail Marys Hitlers.

[JensenZ]

7 hours ago, billd766 said:

Why must the Ukraine give up on the territories annexed by Russia?

 

Because YOU say so. It is NOT your land, territory or people. 

 

Because Trump says so? It is NOT his land, territory or people either?

 

Nor does it belong to Russia either.

 

It belongs to the Ukraine.

 

Perhaps the USA should give ALL its territory back to the native Americans and the Mexicans that they stole it from?

 

That would be equally fair though I doubt that you would agree with that.

You must live in Lala Land. The borders of countries around the world have been shaped by the winners and losers of wars over millennia. It doesn't belong to Ukraine anymore because Russia took it from them, and there is no way to get it back. Ceding territory is the only way this war will end. If any other countries enter this war to help drive out Russia, a Nuclear war is a strong possibility.

 

You're sitting here in safety behind your keyboard. No one is asking you or your family to die in a war that cannot be won. 

[safarimike11]

21 hours ago, rabang said:

Putin's Russia to me is the true evil empire, more than the Soviet Union of Reagan era. They leave nothing in their trail except death, poverty, misery and despair, all for strengthening the position of Tsar Vladimir.

Totally agree, but Putin will never allow himself to be seen to back down - as he truly hates the West. It's a sad reality, but I think that it is inevitable that Ukraine will need to give up Crimea - yes, I am aware it its constitution; I am not saying I agree with this one bit, but it will be the only way to end the war. As for NATO (without the U.S.) and the eu "army", I hope they are not foolish enough to get involved.

[safarimike11]

5 hours ago, BLMFem said:

What final analysis would that be?

I totally agree with your post.

[xylophone]

16 minutes ago, safarimike11 said:

Totally agree, but Putin will never allow himself to be seen to back down - as he truly hates the West. It's a sad reality, but I think that it is inevitable that Ukraine will need to give up Crimea - yes, I am aware it its constitution; I am not saying I agree with this one bit, but it will be the only way to end the war. As for NATO (without the U.S.) and the eu "army", I hope they are not foolish enough to get involved.

Sadly trump has completely stuffed up his promise to end the war in 24 hrs, but then lying comes easy to him as he has been practising it most of his life.....I saw this great opinion piece in my local newspaper, so thought I would share it because it really is "spot on" as the saying goes................

 

"To see the true face of Donald Trump, look no further than Ukraine. Laid bare in his handling of that issue are not only his myriad weaknesses, but also the danger he poses to his own country and the wider world – to say nothing of the battered people of Ukraine itself.

 

Don’t be fooled by the mild, vaguely theatrical rebuke Trump issued to Vladimir Putin on Thursday after Moscow unleashed a deadly wave of drone strikes on Kyiv, killing 12 and injuring dozens: “Vladimir, STOP!” Pay attention instead to the fact that, in the nearly 100 days since Trump took office, the US has essentially switched sides in the battle between Putin’s Russia and democratic Ukraine, backing the invaders against the invaded.

On Friday, Trump’s real-estate buddy and special envoy to the Middle East, Steve Witkoff, held talks in Moscow with Putin. But any resemblance between the US and an honest broker is purely coincidental. On the contrary, previous encounters between the two men resulted in Witkoff parroting Kremlin talking points, essentially endorsing Russia’s claim to the Ukrainian territory it seized. In that, Witkoff was merely following the lead set by his boss: the supposed peace deal Trump is now in a hurry to seal amounts to handing Putin almost everything he wants and demanding Ukraine surrender".

Trump is so obviously scared of Putin and won't take any action against him; is that because Putin has something over him.....like some incriminating pics for instance (golden showers from a previous visit??).

 

[safarimike11]

1 minute ago, xylophone said:

Sadly trump has completely stuffed up his promise to end the war in 24 hrs, but then lying comes easy to him as he has been practising it most of his life.....I saw this great opinion piece in my local newspaper, so thought I would share it because it really is "spot on" as the saying goes................

 

"To see the true face of Donald Trump, look no further than Ukraine. Laid bare in his handling of that issue are not only his myriad weaknesses, but also the danger he poses to his own country and the wider world – to say nothing of the battered people of Ukraine itself.

 

Don’t be fooled by the mild, vaguely theatrical rebuke Trump issued to Vladimir Putin on Thursday after Moscow unleashed a deadly wave of drone strikes on Kyiv, killing 12 and injuring dozens: “Vladimir, STOP!” Pay attention instead to the fact that, in the nearly 100 days since Trump took office, the US has essentially switched sides in the battle between Putin’s Russia and democratic Ukraine, backing the invaders against the invaded.

On Friday, Trump’s real-estate buddy and special envoy to the Middle East, Steve Witkoff, held talks in Moscow with Putin. But any resemblance between the US and an honest broker is purely coincidental. On the contrary, previous encounters between the two men resulted in Witkoff parroting Kremlin talking points, essentially endorsing Russia’s claim to the Ukrainian territory it seized. In that, Witkoff was merely following the lead set by his boss: the supposed peace deal Trump is now in a hurry to seal amounts to handing Putin almost everything he wants and demanding Ukraine surrender".

 

I truly think that the best thing that Donny could do now is just stay home... but he probably won't.