Report Abandoned Abroad: British Pensioner in Thailand Slams 'Immoral' Frozen Pensions Policy

[impulse]

3 minutes ago, Tiger1980 said:

Are you stating that the USA is part of the U.K. while Canada is in Outer Slobovia?

 

Nope.  Outer Slobovia is just what I use when I don't want to offend any real country.  Some of them are downright sensitive.

 

[steven100]

6 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

How could that happen to a "former banker"?

I don't understand      

[steven100]

If he needs a hand out,  I've got some cans of baked beans and continental soup in the cupboard which I can donate.    Just let me know. 

[sambum]

47 minutes ago, Tiger1980 said:

NHS from day 1, although my son Thai born with British citizenship was required by a foreign born bureaucrat at the NHs hospital to prove his residency even after 4 yrs in the UK.

 Illegal Economic migrants can make use of the NHS on day 1.Same for dental treatment for which a British citizen may have to Waite weeks/ months and then be required to pay.

 

Ridiculous!

[Moonlover]

4 hours ago, Blueman1 said:

But You Said YOU Live Fine on your Pension(S) Maybe He Doesn't have anything other than his State Pension to Live Fine On.....

Oh but he does! Not mentioned in the article (how remiss of them) is his 'modest private pension'. As mentioned by me and others, he's a 'former banker'. UK banks are generally known to offer good pension packages to all their staff, so I wonder how 'modest this pension is.

 

https://thai.news/news/thailand/christopher-lees-retirement-struggle-the-impact-of-frozen-uk-pensions-on-british-expats-in-thailand

[steven100]

9 minutes ago, steven100 said:

If he needs a hand out,  I've got some cans of baked beans and continental soup in the cupboard which I can donate.    Just let me know. 

 

I've also got some old shirts and underpants that he can have

[KannikaP]

48 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I can 'splain that, though many may not like the explanation and I'm not sure I agree with it.  To your former employer, it makes no difference where they send the money.  It's gone to them, whether you live in the UK or Outer Slobovia.  To the gub'ment, it makes a huge difference.  A pension pound sent to a UK resident bounces around the economy several times, being taxed and creating GDP along the way.  A pension pound sent to Outer Slobovia is gone.

 

Sucks, I know.  But fair play to them that they haven't changed the rules.  It was that way when retirees made the decision to retire in Thailand.  (I'm open to being ridiculed and corrected if that's wrong).

 

Unfortunatly, the Gubment apply one rule to Outer Slobonia, and another to Inner Slobonia (Thailand & Phillpines)

[Trip Hop]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

I am too old to be getting over anything.

Your response only highlights the "I am all right Jack" attitude to injustice.

Look I could harp on about the £35k that the government cost me over Covid that would be worth double that now if it was invested with my other money. Or the £40k that my LA cost me with their lies about 15 years ago which similarly would have now been worth 3-4x that amount. I just don’t because it’s only money and in the words of my very wise father, you won’t be the first and you certainly won’t be the last. Life is too short to be bitter, so as said, get over it!

[Qld4000]

It won’t be long before these poor buggers become beggars.    They’ll be starved out , can’t afford to go home & the subsequent living costs at home.      They are screwed.   
It’s all about having a Plan B , C & D.   

 

 

 

 

[PingRoundTheWorld]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

"We've paid in, so we deserve annual increases," he argued.

That's the ridiculous thing: you pay up all your life towards a "retirement plan" that they force you to pay into - yet when it comes time to pay you back it's next to nothing and routinely frozen and devalued. Social security programs should be CANCELLED and replaced by private retirement plans.

 

On the other hand: expecting to thrive on government pension is delusional. As a former banker surely he's got a private retirement plan too???!

[JustThisOnePostOnly]

I had heard there was a penalty but I had no idea it stacked like that.

 

This is offensive to behold.  Truly.

[3NUMBAS]

Benidorm in Spain and the coast has 1000 s of hard up U.K. oaps living in poverty,they mostly seem to be from northern U.K., where it’s bad to,live and poverty also

[Expat68]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

AFAIK, and I did research it a few years ago, if your wife has never lived in the UK, has never paid national insurance contributions in her own name and has no no national insurance number, then she is not entitled to a UK state pension, and your state pension dies when you die.

 

It may have changed in the intervening years, but I don't think that it has.

 

There used to be a bereavement grant paid to all UK pensioners widows, but that was stopped, at least in Thailand, many years ago.

When was bereavement grant paid to widowers stopped? I only ask because someone I know personally received this

[billd766]

Just now, Expat68 said:

When was bereavement grant paid to widowers stopped? I only ask because someone I know personally received this

Perhaps you could do a search on the internet and find out.

 

I did.

 

When was the UK bereavement benefit stopped in Thailand for UK pensioners?

 

AI Overview
Learn more
The changes to UK bereavement benefits, affecting UK pensioners and their spouses, came into effect in April 2017. This change, primarily impacting widows and widowers, introduced the "Bereavement Support Payment" and altered the rules for inheriting state pensions. 
Here's a breakdown:
Before April 2017:
Widows and widowers could inherit a portion of their deceased spouse's state pension, depending on the circumstances. 
After April 2017:
A new "Bereavement Support Payment" was introduced, replacing the previous widow's pension and bereavement allowance. This payment is a lump sum and a series of monthly payments, but it's not based on the deceased spouse's state pension. 
Impact on Thai women:
The changes meant that Thai women marrying British men after April 2017 may no longer be able to inherit their husband's state pension if they don't have enough National Insurance contributions in their own right. 

 

I married my Thai wife 25 years ago today and the last time that I looked a few years ago she would not receive any Bereavement Support Payment nor any portion of my state pension.

[TedG]

8 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Is this what you refer to? High incomes seem to be grossly disadvantaged, looks even more communist than EU pensions.

 

 

 

Social security has a high ROI for lower-income people.  

[a3tsw]

5 hours ago, UK Martin said:

Is it possible to give a British address and keep receiving your state pension increases into a British bank ?

Yes and more than a few on here do just that…

[Trip Hop]

2 hours ago, bobnuts said:

So much on this, and understanably so. I myself am likely to come into the situation of a frozen state pension in a couple of years though I do have a workplace final salary pension as well so the basic state pension is an "add on". 

 

Like many I have wondered how the Philippines qualifies for increases but not Thailand. This is due to the bilateral agreement entered into between the two countries. This was signed in 1985 and came into force in 1989.

 

I also wondered why Thaialand has not been approached to do the same and like some presumed this was likely because Thaialand did not or would not agree but after a little searching I came to unedsrand that the Thatcher government, elected in 1979 announced in 1981, as a part of policy focused on reducing public spending and tightening government commitments, especially regarding overseas obligations like automatic pension increases for expatriates stopped considering or pursuing any further agreements.

 

The Philippines SSA was already in discussion and was allowed to continue to signature and passage into effect but no new agreements were considered.

 

So it seem as if this is another Thatcher, or more specifically Geoffrey Howe's doing.

 

I think it is an important part of retirement planning to understand what the implications of retiring in another country are, and to research all financial aspects especially. Anything less is like expecting your host country to honour your UK library card or take payments in pound notes.

 

So far as paying tax on pension payments is concerned, if the money was earned (arising) in UK and you were in PAYE then I think your National Insurance payments were free of tax, this part of your income was not taxed at the time you paid into the scheme. Clearly as income invested for later payment (pension) it will be taxed somewhere. The alternative would have been a higher tax bill whilst in work. I'm not 100% on this bit but is how it was explained to me.

 

Bob

Employee NI is paid at certain percentages on your gross earnings over certain thresholds. Similarly income tax on your salary is paid at certain percentages on your gross earnings over your tax-free allowance. Neither is deducted before calculation of the other. Employee contributions to an employer or personal pension attract tax relief either at source or later through your tax return. Employer contributions to an employer or personal pension are paid gross and excluded from corporation tax. Tax relief on both types of pension contributions apply up to a combined maximum of £40k contributed to your pension each year. When you withdraw your private or employee pension it is treated as taxable income and taxed once it exceeds your tax free allowance. 

[Patong2021]

3 hours ago, Asquith Production said:

I, like  many, are still paying tax in the UK. If you have a state and private pension you will be paying tax if it exceed your personal allowance.

 

Okay I do not spend any of my money in the UK but equally I do not use any of its services such as the NHS.

 

The UK government discriminates based on your address.

 

Yes, you are paying tax on your UK income. If you are a non resident, you do not pay income tax on other income. My apologies for not being clearer.

[Patong2021]

3 hours ago, steve187 said:

would be fully upgraded as if you never left the UK

all money generated in the UK is taxed in the UK

 

Yes. However, other income is not, and there are many UK non residents   with income from  foreign investments who do not pay UK tax on that income.

 

 

3 hours ago, FRM-BKK said:

This is such an ill informed, inaccurate and unsupported statement, full of preconceived ideas and written without any evidence to support it … apart from all that, it isn’t very helpful !!

 

So he is contributing to the UK economy by spending his pension in Thailand? OK.

 

4 hours ago, Surasak said:

Anyone earning over £12,570 in the UK, be it pension or from work, WILL pay tax to the UK government. Because this guy lives in Thailand does not exempt him from that fact.

I could be a few hundred per month better off is such were the case.

I would suggest you amend your post to make that clear.

 

Yes, I did state that excess over the threshold of 12,570 was taxable.

 

5 hours ago, Letseng said:

But he paid contributions like everybody else did. Just because he chose to live in TH is no reason to disadvantage him just because he doesn't pay council tax, UK VAT etc.

 

He is not spending the  pension on goods and services in the UK. There is no economic benefit for the UK from him.

 

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

Spoken like a true government official.

The legislation that denies the uprating of state pensions applies to everyone absent from the UK.

The government has created exemptions from the law which amounts to discrimination, something that cannot have a value attached.

The real problem stems from a lack of political will and a lack of of public support, unlike the WASPI women, frozen pensioners have no cohesive domestic voice.

Legislation is not cast in stone and does not always keep up with evolution, discrimitory legislation is much younger than the state pensions. Historical precedence can never be used as justification for historical  failings, if it did women would not be able to vote and gay men would be in prison.

For decades successive governments have blatently lied and misled the public over the state pension, none more so than the Labour party. In 2018 they pledged their support to the APPG on Frozen Pensions and in 2019 on Page 76 of the manifesto they included a committment to end frozen pensions.

The UK state pension is probably the greatest unwritten financial scandal of the last century. 

 

 

Exemptions from the law are obtained by a reciprocal social benefits agreement with another nation. Thailand did not agree. Is that the UK's fault?  Other UK nationals  have the agreement if they are  living in the Philippines, Turkey USA, Barbados etc.  A grant of what you demand would see hundreds of millions of  pounds be sucked out to  residents of Pakistan, Bangladesh, India, etc. That is why a reciprocity agreement is needed. Thailand won't enter into the treaty with the UK.

[JB300]

1 hour ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

As a former banker surely he's got a private retirement plan too???!

I worked for a UK Bank for 20 years (1986-2006) on a final salary (Defined Benefits) pension that gives me 1/40th for every year worked (so I’ll end up with roughly 1/3rd of my final salary adjusted for cost of living increases for 30 years until I take the pension next year ). 
 

Ended up back at the same bank for a short (18 months - 2007-2009) on a Defined Contribution pension which was also very generous so I have no idea how a former “Banker” only has State Pension as an income. 
 

NB I do think it’s wrong that State Pensions are frozen just think the guy in the original article is playing hard done by a bit too much. 

Edit: Just thought, I also worked for the same UK bank for 6.5 years in Singapore (+4.5 years for a US Bank) where at the end of the day you are responsible for your own pension (they hand it over to you when you leave the company) so I guess he could have been working overseas & not done anything to invest for his future retirement. 

 

 

 

[gk10012001]

Why is Philippines not increase limited but Thailand is?  For that matter, what countries does the UK increase things and which does it not?

[JB300]

6 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

Why is Philippines not increase limited but Thailand is?  For that matter, what countries does the UK increase things and which does it not?

It’s all about having “Reciprocal” agreements in place… 

Here’s the list from the UK Gov site… 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/reciprocal-agreements/reciprocal-agreements

 

[gk10012001]

14 minutes ago, JB300 said:

It’s all about having “Reciprocal” agreements in place… 

Here’s the list from the UK Gov site… 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/reciprocal-agreements/reciprocal-agreements

 

OK thanks.  Still wondering why the UK  has or does not have reciprocal - agreements with certain countries.  I will poke the interweb.  Thanks

[sambum]

3 hours ago, impulse said:

 

I can 'splain that, though many may not like the explanation and I'm not sure I agree with it.  To your former employer, it makes no difference where they send the money.  It's gone to them, whether you live in the UK or Outer Slobovia.  To the gub'ment, it makes a huge difference.  A pension pound sent to a UK resident bounces around the economy several times, being taxed and creating GDP along the way.  A pension pound sent to Outer Slobovia is gone.

 

Sucks, I know.  But fair play to them that they haven't changed the rules.  It was that way when retirees made the decision to retire in Thailand.  (I'm open to being ridiculed and corrected if that's wrong).

 

 

And what about the pound that bounces round the Phillippines or the USA or.....?

[lamyai3]

27 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

OK thanks.  Still wondering why the list has or does not have reciprocal - agreements with certain countries.  I will poke the interweb.  Thanks

 

The Philippines/UK agreement was not instigated by the UK government, but by the Philippines government back in the 1980s as part of an outreach for reciprocal benefits with other countries where there are large numbers of OFWs. Aside from the UK they also signed agreements with many European countries, as well as Japan, Korea and Canada. 

[sambum]

2 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

That's the ridiculous thing: you pay up all your life towards a "retirement plan" that they force you to pay into - yet when it comes time to pay you back it's next to nothing and routinely frozen and devalued. Social security programs should be CANCELLED and replaced by private retirement plans.

 

On the other hand: expecting to thrive on government pension is delusional. As a former banker surely he's got a private retirement plan too???!

 

Of course he has - from the OP:-

"Adding to his woes is a modest private pension that fails to deliver the retirement he envisioned." And I am sure that he will have some sort of pension from the Bank where he worked.

As an aside, I remember a few years ago when a bank(s) had to be bailed out by the Government because of bad investments, but it still didn't stop them from paying out bonuses to those who had made the bad investments in the first place!!!

[sambum]

9 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

Another British pedophile's troubles. 

TROLL!!!

[jesimps]

12 hours ago, webfact said:

Picture of Christopher Lee courtesy of the iPaper

 

A British expat's sunny retirement in Thailand has turned stormy as his UK state pension remains frozen, leaving him counting every baht. Christopher Lee traded Wrexham for Thailand in 2010, drawn by the warm climate and relaxed lifestyle. But, his pension is stuck at its original rate, unlike UK counterparts who've seen increases of up to 80%.

 

At 70, the former banker relies on a weekly £137 (6,150 baht) after a SERPS top-up, opposed to the current UK basic pension of £176.45 (7,880 baht). In Thailand, one of many countries on the UK’s 'frozen pensions' list, Lee and others see their pensions diminish amidst rising costs.

 

Over 450,000 Brits in countries like Thailand, Australia, Canada, and New Zealand share Lee's plight, battling constant inflation. “The extra cash would be most useful,” Lee voiced, pressing for a policy reversal as financial strains increase. Adding to his woes is a modest private pension that fails to deliver the retirement he envisioned.

 

 

 

Groups of British pensioners in Thailand are pushing back, urging government reform as pensioners face poverty—a plight highlighted in The Thaiger's coverage of Brits struggling in Pattaya and Chiang Mai. The UK government, however, maintains that adjusting overseas pensions would cost nearly £1 billion annually.

 

The Department for Work and Pensions reported it would take an estimated £940 million to unfreeze pensions in 2024-25. While officials insist information is clear on retirement financial impacts, Lee and others find this unsatisfactory. "We've paid in, so we deserve annual increases," he argued.

 

For expats like Lee, the reality is stark—a life of rising prices and tightened budgets, far removed from the warm retirement once imagined under the Thai sun.

 

  Adapted by ASEAN Now from The Thaiger 2025-04-28

 

 

137 pounds a week, that's a fortune. After a working lifetime of paying NI contributions, I've been on 101 pounds a week since 2009 (I don't get serps).  Fortunately, I do have a modest works pension.

Due to the many millions of pounds the government chooses to throw at the illegals every single day -  hotels, houses, food, clothing, mobile phones, medical treatment, driving lessons, VIP tours around football stadiums etc I reckon there's less than a minuscule chance of the policy on expat  frozen pensions ever changing. 

[Hellfire]

45 minutes ago, sambum said:

TROLL!!!

It is much better to be a troll than old European pedophile fighting for his rights (as if he deserved anything else but to be beaten with stones).

[Expat68]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

Perhaps you could do a search on the internet and find out.

 

I did.

 

When was the UK bereavement benefit stopped in Thailand for UK pensioners?

 

AI Overview
Learn more
The changes to UK bereavement benefits, affecting UK pensioners and their spouses, came into effect in April 2017. This change, primarily impacting widows and widowers, introduced the "Bereavement Support Payment" and altered the rules for inheriting state pensions. 
Here's a breakdown:
Before April 2017:
Widows and widowers could inherit a portion of their deceased spouse's state pension, depending on the circumstances. 
After April 2017:
A new "Bereavement Support Payment" was introduced, replacing the previous widow's pension and bereavement allowance. This payment is a lump sum and a series of monthly payments, but it's not based on the deceased spouse's state pension. 
Impact on Thai women:
The changes meant that Thai women marrying British men after April 2017 may no longer be able to inherit their husband's state pension if they don't have enough National Insurance contributions in their own right. 

 

I married my Thai wife 25 years ago today and the last time that I looked a few years ago she would not receive any Bereavement Support Payment nor any portion of my state pension.

I think it is a one off £2000 roughly