Eighty Years On: Honoring VE Day and Confronting the Rising Tide of Holocaust Denial

[Cory1848]

5 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Whole topic on it that I've referenced numerous times. Go over there and respond and show us how smart you are. I beat everybody else on this board, they call it national socialism for a reason

Your continued efforts to equate National Socialism with socialism are by this point more pathetic than hilarious. (It’s like calling the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea a democracy because the word appears in the country’s official name.) Here’s a succinct explanation (from Google AI no less):

 

“National Socialism, also known as Nazism, and traditional socialism are fundamentally different ideologies, despite the shared term ‘socialism’ in National Socialism’s name. Socialism generally advocates for collective ownership and control of resources, often with the aim of a more equitable distribution of wealth. National Socialism, on the other hand, is a form of right-wing nationalist and fascist ideology that prioritized national interests and racial purity over individual or collective rights, and used a centralized, planned economy to support its political goals.”

 

And further, “While the Nazis implemented public works programs and rearmament initiatives, which did create jobs, the overall wealth distribution was not made more equitable. Real wages actually declined for many workers.” And, of course, Germans deemed “non-Aryan” were excluded from any jobs programs; genuine socialism at least in theory aims to benefit all legal residents.

 

Antisemitism can emerge among fascists, communists, socialists, liberal democrats, anarchists, Buddhists, or people of any other affiliation, although the extreme nationalism advocated by most fascist regimes usually requires some form of “othering,” and Jewish people over the millennia have tended to be the first to be “othered.”

 

Got it?

[Yagoda]

2 minutes ago, Cory1848 said:

Your continued efforts to equate National Socialism with socialism are by this point more pathetic than hilarious. (It’s like calling the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea a democracy because the word appears in the country’s official name.) Here’s a succinct explanation (from Google AI no less):

 

“National Socialism, also known as Nazism, and traditional socialism are fundamentally different ideologies, despite the shared term ‘socialism’ in National Socialism’s name. Socialism generally advocates for collective ownership and control of resources, often with the aim of a more equitable distribution of wealth. National Socialism, on the other hand, is a form of right-wing nationalist and fascist ideology that prioritized national interests and racial purity over individual or collective rights, and used a centralized, planned economy to support its political goals.”

 

And further, “While the Nazis implemented public works programs and rearmament initiatives, which did create jobs, the overall wealth distribution was not made more equitable. Real wages actually declined for many workers.” And, of course, Germans deemed “non-Aryan” were excluded from any jobs programs; genuine socialism at least in theory aims to benefit all legal residents.

 

Antisemitism can emerge among fascists, communists, socialists, liberal democrats, anarchists, Buddhists, or people of any other affiliation, although the extreme nationalism advocated by most fascist regimes usually requires some form of “othering,” and Jewish people over the millennia have tended to be the first to be “othered.”

 

Got it?

Didnt see you disputing any of the points I raised in the topics referred to. Probably because you are too chicken to try.

 

BTW, I could easily make AI tell folks National Socialism was a Socialist movement. You can make AI say whatever you want.

[Cory1848]

7 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Didnt see you disputing any of the points I raised in the topics referred to. Probably because you are too chicken to try.

 

No, that’s not it, actually! Rather, it’s that arguing with the sort of stubborn, chest-beating illogic that you seem to revel in is at best a useless activity. Sorry I tried.

[Mike_Hunt]

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The thread isn’t about your misconceptions of Socialism.

There is one truth about socialism.  It always fails. 

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, Cory1848 said:

No, that’s not it, actually! Rather, it’s that arguing with the sort of stubborn, chest-beating illogic that you seem to revel in is at best a useless activity. Sorry I tried.

His repeated false claim that the Nazis we’re socialists is frequently challenged by members of the forum.

 

He continues to ignore the historical truth and he will continue to post his clear and indisputable lie.

 

Go figure.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, Mike_Hunt said:

There is one truth about socialism.  It always fails. 

Oh.

 

Odd how socialists programs thrive within so many western democracies and continue to do so.

[Mike_Hunt]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Oh.

 

Odd how socialists programs thrive within so many western democracies and continue to do so.

 

It's obvious you don't know what socialism means. 

[Rimmer]

4 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

 There were 3  camps at Auschwitz. Camps 1 & 2 are what people visit. Auschwitz 1 was a  detention  camp.

Auschwitz 2 which is called Birkenau was an extermination center and was built specifically for the mass murder of european jews. Auschwitz 3 was called Monowitz and was a slave labour camp in partnership with IG Farben.  People died of abuse, disease and starvation at all facilities, but the extermination was specific to only  one  camp at Auschwitz. There was a difference between concentration camps and extermination camps. 

 

 

Correct on all counts. 

 

Auschwitz also had approximately 50 subcamps attached to the main camp (Auschwitz  Stammlager ), the exact number varying slightly depending on classification and historical source.

 

The subcamps were part of the broader Auschwitz complex, which included:

Auschwitz I (the main camp Stammlager)

Auschwitz II-Birkenau (the extermination camp)

Auschwitz III-Monowitz (a labor camp serving IG Farben)

 

The dozens of sub camps, were forced labor camps supporting German industry, agriculture, or infrastructure.

Subcamps were harsh and deadly in their own right, with terrible living and working conditions.

[Cory1848]

22 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

His repeated false claim that the Nazis we’re socialists is frequently challenged by members of the forum.

 

He continues to ignore the historical truth and he will continue to post his clear and indisputable lie.

 

Go figure.

 

Maybe driven by present-day politics; calling a liberal administration in whatever Western democracy “socialist” or “communist” and then equating that with Nazis because, well, everyone knows that Nazis are bad. But that’s way off topic for this thread.

[Yagoda]

33 minutes ago, Cory1848 said:

No, that’s not it, actually! Rather, it’s that arguing with the sort of stubborn, chest-beating illogic that you seem to revel in is at best a useless activity. Sorry I tried.

The white feather again. Another one bites the dust.

 

22 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

His repeated false claim that the Nazis we’re socialists is frequently challenged by members of the forum.

 

He continues to ignore the historical truth and he will continue to post his clear and indisputable lie.

 

Go figure.

 

You know where the topics are.  You have had the white feather for a while. You might want to read Kubizeks memoirs when you get a chance

[Cory1848]

34 minutes ago, Mike_Hunt said:

There is one truth about socialism.  It always fails. 

Pure socialism (collective ownership of the means of production) perhaps comes close to communism, and this has been shown to be antithetical to human nature -- or at least, we haven’t sufficiently evolved as a species to make it work. Social democracy, however, can work beautifully -- whereby the profit motive is removed from major societal sectors that provide services needed by everyone (health care, basic housing, basic transportation and the like) while regulated capitalism can be applied to consumer industries. Something approaching this seems to work in Scandinavia for instance, always at the top in various “happiness” indexes.

[worgeordie]

4 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Why would I need counseling? My life is great, I'm happy most of the time with my country and it's policies, I don't have anybody in my head making me crazy everyday and I have an understanding of history that allows me to recognize who the enemy is and who isn't

Happy in the cult , is that anybody ,I think you mean Anything in your head ...right

 

regards worgeordie

[Yagoda]

15 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

Happy in the cult , is that anybody ,I think you mean Anything in your head ...right

 

regards worgeordie

Isnt that cute, another stalking moronic flame from you

[Chomper Higgot]

An informative link:

 

https://www.auschwitz.org/en/history/categories-of-prisoners/

[blaze master]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Oh.

 

Odd how socialists programs thrive within so many western democracies and continue to do so.

 

Our health care system in Canada is thriving alright. 

[MicroB]

9 hours ago, Yagoda said:

No its about antisemitism and holocaust denial, a part of Socialism guys like you try to hide.

 

No its not. Its about VE Day. The OP included a huge graphic with the Union Flag. I know you are a troll who likes to hijack threads with depressing regularity, to twist the discussion to fit with your own narrow view of the world.

 

VE Day means a lot of things. Literally, it  marks the surrender of the German Armed Forces.

 

Antisemitism didn't start with WW2 and didn't end with WW2. Its a prejudice long engrained in European and xerox European societies. Its not the preserve of the Right or the Left. Before WW2, the British Labour Party  was known as the Zionist Party, and this position was cemented by Nye Bevin and Michael Foot, but you probably don't know who they were nor care. They were socialist. I tell you who else was a socialist; the first Prime Minister of Israel, David Ben Gurion. So was Golda Meir, Yitzhak Rabin, Shimon Peres, Ehud Barak. So don't you dare suggest that socialism is incompatible with being a Jew or a Zionist. To suggest so marks you as an anti-semite.

[MicroB]

3 hours ago, Cory1848 said:

Your continued efforts to equate National Socialism with socialism are by this point more pathetic than hilarious. (It’s like calling the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea a democracy because the word appears in the country’s official name.) Here’s a succinct explanation (from Google AI no less):

 

“National Socialism, also known as Nazism,

 

The reason is less complicated. It was a branding exercise to win votes/

 

When WW1 ended, Hitler remained in the army. He had no prospects, and needed the money. The army employed him to infiltrate and monitor the German Worker's Party, which was an anti-Capitalist, anti-Marxist, Nationalist Party. Hitler found sympathies with these ideas, except for the anti-capitalism bit. With the permission of his handlers, he joined the party, and rose through its ranks. When the party meetings in beer Halls actually started attracting decent numbers, the leadership, which included Hitler, discussed a name change, to reach a greater proportion of the population. Now you get into the febrile nature of Weimar politics. Hitler wanted to rename the party the Social Revolutionary Party but it was Rudolf Jung who pushed for the case of nicking a name from an Austrian Party, German National Socialist Workers' Party, and eventually settled on National Socialist Germany Workers Party. The Nazis were literally not socialist.

[Chris Daley]

God's chosen people.  The Holocaust.  Unicorns.  That bible is a right laugh.

[Nick Carter icp]

12 hours ago, Watawattana said:

I went to Auschwitz about 12 years ago.  A very sobering trip.  I did a group guided tour, led by an Israeli lady.  One thing that still stands out to me today was her admission that many Israeli schools teach their children that it was only Jews who died at Auschwitz.  Obviously a historically innaccurate fact, although of course the vast, vast majority were in fact Jews.

 

https://www.auschwitz.org/en/history/the-number-of-victims/overall-numbers-by-ethnicity-or-category-of-deportee/

 

   Seems like it was you who was mistaken 

[Patong2021]

3 hours ago, blaze master said:

 

Our health care system in Canada is thriving alright. 

 

And what's your solution

[Nick Carter icp]

23 minutes ago, Chris Daley said:

God's chosen people.  

 

   When the World was Pagan , before Religion came along .

A group of people had the belief that they were chosen by God to follow his commands .

   God choose the Jews to be religious , unlike others who were pagan and not religious .

   Christians and Muslims came a along a few thousand years later and both of them claim to be the real chosen people to follow the Jews God .

   Christians and Muslims both also believe that are the chosen ones .

Christians and Muslims both borrowed/stole the Jews God

[Patong2021]

32 minutes ago, Chris Daley said:

God's chosen people.  The Holocaust.  Unicorns.  That bible is a right laugh.

 

It really is depressing that such hateful intentional ignorance as you express, is so prevalent today.

The concept of Chosen people refers to people who believe that they are chosen to obey the Lord. It doesn't mean they are better than anyone else, just that they were  expected to follow the the rules and practices set down.  It was being given the responsibility to be good people and to set an example so that others would follow. 

 In the period in which post slavery Judaism arose, it was a time of great  chaos. The Hebrews, having left their enslavement to the Egyptians were a lawless and  uncivilized people in need of  a code with which to rebuild their society. Moses was the agent  through which  the rules of society were re-established. Their nation was then rebuilt.

[Patong2021]

11 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Socialism cannot exist without enemies and victims. As long as there is Socialism, there will be deniers.

 

There are also deniers amongst the supporters of positions who  are not "socialist". Socialists are not inherently bad, nor evil and through history are the people who are most likely to take on extremism, whether it is the extremist communists, or right wing fascists. Socialists have a view that  requires civil liberties and human rights to be respected, which often puts them in the firing line of  the aforementioned supporters. We may think that socialists are deluded or impractical or naive, but they are not evil. They mean well and their intent is to do good. That is the  exact opposite of people who engage in violent street protests or who vandalize property. Socialists are the people who gave  societies public health care and other social  benefit programs like  workers compensation, pensions and unions. They also  delivered voting rights to people who were excluded.  

[connda]

Eighty Years On: Honoring VE Day and Confronting the Rising Tide of Holocaust Denial

 

Should read:

Eighty Years on: Honoring May 9th Victory Day and confronting the rising tide of hatred of Russia and denial of Russia's role in the defeat of Germany and the Third Reich. 

[connda]

12 hours ago, ignore it said:

Yep, 

 

There are holocaust deniers everywhere.  Even on AN it seems.

 

 

And then there are those who will deny that Russians, Slavs, Roma, and a host of other Utermenchen were also subjected to genocide in concentration camps and the Nazi Holocaust.

[blaze master]

1 hour ago, Patong2021 said:

 

And what's your solution

 

Not sure there is one. The system is too strained and too abused. 

 

Approx 6.5 million Canadians don't have access to a family doctor. Mind if we start there or do you have anything to add.

 

 

[rudi49jr]

5 hours ago, Cory1848 said:

Maybe driven by present-day politics; calling a liberal administration in whatever Western democracy “socialist” or “communist” and then equating that with Nazis because, well, everyone knows that Nazis are bad. But that’s way off topic for this thread.

The head cuckoo of the German AfD party, Alice Weidel, also calls Hitler a socialist. But it’s not so strange that the far right is trying so hard to shift the blame for the holocaust from fascism to socialism, is it?

Maybe the members on this forum pushing the narrative that nazis were socialists should read this:

https://www.brittanica.com/story/were-the-nazis-socialists

[rudi49jr]

54 minutes ago, connda said:

Eighty Years On: Honoring VE Day and Confronting the Rising Tide of Holocaust Denial

 

Should read:

Eighty Years on: Honoring May 9th Victory Day and confronting the rising tide of hatred of Russia and denial of Russia's role in the defeat of Germany and the Third Reich. 

There is no large scale denial of Russia’s role in the defeat of Germany, as far as I know.
The rising tide of hatred of Russia is totally on Putin, his fascist kleptocratic regime, their efforts to undermine western democracies and their illegal and unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. 

[Cory1848]

56 minutes ago, connda said:

And then there are those who will deny that Russians, Slavs, Roma, and a host of other Utermenchen were also subjected to genocide in concentration camps and the Nazi Holocaust.

Who is denying this? More than 3 million Soviet POWs died in Nazi custody. This figure from the US Holocaust Memorial Museum's website.

[Cory1848]

14 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

There is no large scale denial of Russia’s role in the defeat of Germany, as far as I know.

Well, a certain present-day US megalomaniac just a few days ago posted that the US did “more than any other Country [sic], by far,” in beating the Germans in the war, and 35 percent of US Americans will fall in line and unquestioningly believe the statement, so there’s that. Said megalomaniac I'm sure has never heard of the Eastern Front.