If there is no life after death...

[fredwiggy]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

Now you are coming the raw prawn. Of course you think you are better, because you believe.

 

Muslims think they are better than you. They are also outbreeding you.

There's a saying. Don't put words in other people's mouths. Again, no one is any better than anyone else here, no matter the amount of cash or status they have. How are the Muslims out breeding me? I'm not in any competition with them. And it doesn't matter what they think. That's just another, opinion.

[Hummin]

45 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

You can't prove otherwise, so I could tell you to wake up also. I choose to believe. You choose to do whatever you want. Until you can prove us wrong.

We had this conversation for many years already on this forum, so I know it’s waste of time trying to argue with common sense and logic be it politics or religion. There is always excuses for being extreme one way or other way around. 
 

so much conflicts and suffering could had been avoided, if people pulled more in the same direction with more pragmatism instead of ideology 

 

[novanova]

51 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Why keep calling it brainwashing, as if all children are too dense to make up their own minds when they reach adulthood. People aren't as sheltered as you believe, especially with all the media available now. Very poor countries without as much western adoption can have some acting like sheep, as terrorists have proven with their recruits, but the more they are exposed to western ideals and freedom, the more they'll think for themselves and make up their own minds. 

 

There is a countless amount of information available both for science and belief in God, and the more they look elsewhere, the less they act like your brainwashed children and the more they analyze things and act accordingly. 

 

Belief in God doesn't mean you're less intelligent or brainwashed. It means that you made a decision that just could save your soul. You don't have to fear God but respect what he stands for, and his laws make sense to all besides the sociopaths. Who said I thought I was better? No one's any better a human than anyone else. Some just act better. 

 

Teaching you children about God isn't abuse . It shows them what faith means, and they can still decide what they want to do, as again, all people aren't brainwashed sheep, or at least not forever. Why spend so much time talking in a topic if you don't believe? You aren't going to convert anyone to atheism, and you just might be totally wrong and like i said, you will see God someday and not just die and become fertilizer. You just think differently than the majority on earth.

 

Very mistaken. What is taught to small children can be very difficult to unlearn. Not impossible, of course... many do indeed walk away from the nonsense of religion. But to say, of early childhood propaganda, that all people can decide for themselves shows a deep lack of understanding of how the mind works. Far too often, it takes root in the brain, and is immune to the cleansing process provided by reason.

[jippytum]

Pity muslim terrorists  think navina is awaitlng  them after death. 

Pity they can't be convinced otherwise. 

[fredwiggy]

Just now, novanova said:

 

Very mistaken. What is taught to small children can be very difficult to unlearn. Not impossible, of course... many do indeed walk away from the nonsense of religion. But to say, of early childhood propaganda, that all people can decide for themselves shows a deep lack of understanding of how the mind works. Far too often, it takes root in the brain, and is immune to the cleansing process provided by reason.

I think I did say that earlier. Difficult, especially if your parents treated you well, where you trust them more. Not near impossible, as people doe get older, and with that age comes maturity, although not always, I rather have a very good understanding of how the brain works, as I've been reading up on human psychology for decades. Pick up Aaron Beck's Cognitive Behavior Therapy. It's a very complete book on how people think and how they can change incorrect thinking, some brought about by a negative childhood.

[fredwiggy]

3 minutes ago, jippytum said:

Pity muslim terrorists  think navina is awaitlng  them after death. 

Pity they can't be convinced otherwise. 

I always thought if just one would come back from the dead and tell them they're all wrong it would save countless lives on both sides.

[Bruce Aussie]

On 5/25/2025 at 9:14 AM, SoCal1990 said:

Then, if there is life after death, is it still your own?

Yep like groundhog day.

 

[novanova]

6 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I think I did say that earlier. Difficult, especially if your parents treated you well, where you trust them more. Not near impossible, as people doe get older, and with that age comes maturity, although not always, I rather have a very good understanding of how the brain works, as I've been reading up on human psychology for decades. Pick up Aaron Beck's Cognitive Behavior Therapy. It's a very complete book on how people think and how they can change incorrect thinking, some brought about by a negative childhood.

 

A great many small children are told that there is a Santa Claus. They believe it. Some time later, they are told it was all a story, a bit of a joke, and there is no Santa Claus. They stop believing it.

 

All that has to happen to eradicate the damaging disease of religion to die out, is for parents to tell their children it's all a complete fact-free fiction. 

 

No, we won't spend trillions of years in paradise (and by what means will that not be hellishly boring?)

No, the earth was not created in 4004 BC

No, the earth does not pre-date all stars

No, all animals did not crowd into a small boat

 

It's all just silly plagiarised nonsense from silly old men.

[ChrisKC]

On 5/25/2025 at 7:57 AM, SoCal1990 said:

Then where does our consciousness go after we die?

 

Or are we just pretending not to be afraid of the answer?

The answer is not difficult  - no need for pretenses or wishful thinking. When you die you are dead and everything about you is dead: no future, no soul, no spirit, no consciousness (abstract concepts anyway) absolutely nothing!

 

It is very similar to what there was about you prior to your conception!

[novanova]

When will people grow up and tire of this ridiculous, fact-free gibberish?

 

https://lifelessons.co/spirituality/bible/

[fredwiggy]

Just now, novanova said:

 

A great many small children are told that there is a Santa Claus. They believe it. Some time later, they are told it was all a story, a bit of a joke, and there is no Santa Claus. They stop believing it.

 

All that has to happen to eradicate the damaging disease of religion to die out, is for parents to tell their children it's all a complete fact-free fiction. 

 

No, we won't spend trillions of years in paradise (and by what means will that not be hellishly boring?)

No, the earth was not created in 4004 BC

No, the earth does not pre-date all stars

No, all animals did not crowd into a small boat

 

It's all just silly plagiarised nonsense from silly old men.

Why would parents tell their children it's fiction if they are believers? Those that aren't believers are the ones who teach there is no God. The rest of your post are your assumptions and opinions. Boredom comes from inability to initiate, so people who get bored have only themselves to blame. Ussher's chronology was made in the 17th century, when they didn't have radiometric dating they did later, Noahs ark seems to be  valid history, the animals brought there by God and not gathered by Noah. Maybe also the whole earth wasn't flooded but just that area.

[pomchop]

It's  a great pile of BS to brainwash billions of people with if only they will do as they are told...pick a religion and it's pretty common from a gang of virgins to everlasting life to be promised.  Now put some $$ in that collection plate and shut the F up.

[fredwiggy]

6 minutes ago, novanova said:

When will people grow up and tire of this ridiculous, fact-free gibberish?

 

https://lifelessons.co/spirituality/bible/

When you can prove them wrong perhaps?

[ChrisKC]

2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Why would parents tell their children it's fiction if they are believers? Those that aren't believers are the ones who teach there is no God. The rest of your post are your assumptions and opinions. Boredom comes from inability to initiate, so people who get bored have only themselves to blame. Ussher's chronology was made in the 17th century, when they didn't have radiometric dating they did later, Noahs ark seems to be  valid history, the animals brought there by God and not gathered by Noah. Maybe also the whole earth wasn't flooded but just that area.

And if you teach that to children, you are abusing their innocence, Small children are NOT "believers" They are simply children OF Believers, imprinted from birth!

[fredwiggy]

1 minute ago, ChrisKC said:

And if you teach that to children, you are abusing their innocence, Small children are NOT "believers" They are simply children OF Believers, imprinted from birth!

If God is true, it then becomes necessary, to ensure a place in the afterlife. When you teach anything, you do it knowing the child will rebel, no matter how much they believe in and trust their parents. An adult is a child that's matured enough to make up their own mind. We aren't all living on an island with no internet, media, TV, and with only one teacher.

[ignore it]

Hmm.

 

Life after death?

 

I don't know, but the Democratic party thinks there is. 

[Vaughan9]

I have no doubt that there is life after death. All religions say there is no death for the soul...the body is left behind.

NDEs, which are now well-documented and scientifically studied, confirm this...  There many NDE videos to listen to on YouTube... just check them out... they confirm my belief in the afterlife...

[ChrisKC]

8 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

If God is true, it then becomes necessary, to ensure a place in the afterlife. When you teach anything, you do it knowing the child will rebel, no matter how much they believe in and trust their parents. An adult is a child that's matured enough to make up their own mind. We aren't all living on an island with no internet, media, TV, and with only one teacher.

No gods are true today any more than thousands of years ago! it is true that children grow up to be adults, but most do not stop believing and will pass it on to their children. Religion is a contagious disease that is passed from generation to generation intentionally and helps them to glorify death and suffering, as well as being threatened with hell or promised heaven in spite of their obvious non-existence! The Clergy and scripture don't count as moral guidance. When you die, that is it! What is so special about humans that some afterlife is more worthy than all other living things?

[novanova]

14 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

When you can prove them wrong perhaps?

There is no doubt that religion has made it impossible for for you to think clearly. All very sad, but the church needs people like you, to make more people like you. Ignorance breeds ignorance.

 

I will say it AGAIN:

If a person puts forward a conjecture, it is up to them to provide supporting evidence (NOT proof, which is very hard to come by).  It is NOT up to others to do the work.

 

There is NO evidence in favour of a god, the afterlife etc. 

 

Religion pre-dates logic; it's  just an ancient power-play designed to keep control of the plebs.

 

The extent to which you are unable to approach this subject rationally can seen in the fact that, when some of the gibberish of the bible is listed (earth made before stars etc) you don't say, "Well, such a text is stupid beyond words. I will give it up".

 

No, you tie yourself up in knots, desperately clinging on to silly nonsense you were told when you were two.

 

Pathetic.

[fredwiggy]

2 minutes ago, ChrisKC said:

No gods are true today any more than thousands of years ago! it is true that children grow up to be adults, but most do not stop believing and will pass it on to their children. Religion is a contagious disease that is passed from generation to generation intentionally and helps them to glorify death and suffering, as well as being threatened with hell or promised heaven in spite of their obvious non-existence! The Clergy and scripture don't count as moral guidance. When you die, that is it! What is so special about humans that some afterlife is more worthy than all other living things?

Religion does not teach children to glorify death and suffering. Religion is misused by some, and that's why others take offense to it. Read Gods commandments. They aren't about violence. That you believe God doesn't exist is your opinion. Others have belief, and it shouldn't interfere with your life. Life is precious, all life, and we don't know what heaven is about. All the things that hurt here will not be there, as it wouldn't make sense.

[novanova]

Just imagine, there are some people who think the bible is not a complete crock. BWAHAHAHA!!

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tomchivers/call-me-bald-again-i-double-dare-you

[Cameroni]

3 minutes ago, novanova said:

There is NO evidence in favour of a god, the afterlife etc. 

 

That's debatable.

 

For instance, a perplexing number of mystics, from all religions, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism etc, have said they have seen how their consciousness is connected to the whole world. Why would mystics of completely different religions, from very different cultural backgrounds, all report the same results after contemplation?

 

Then there's the experiences of people who were dead and came back. There are also common threads these people report, despite being from different cultures and religions.

 

So to say there is "no" evidence seems debatable.

 

 

[fredwiggy]

5 minutes ago, novanova said:

There is no doubt that religion has made it impossible for for you to think clearly. All very sad, but the church needs people like you, to make more people like you. Ignorance breeds ignorance.

 

I will say it AGAIN:

If a person puts forward a conjecture, it is up to them to provide supporting evidence (NOT proof, which is very hard to come by).  It is NOT up to others to do the work.

 

There is NO evidence in favour of a god, the afterlife etc. 

 

Religion pre-dates logic; it's  just an ancient power-play designed to keep control of the plebs.

 

The extent to which you are unable to approach this subject rationally can seen in the fact that, when some of the gibberish of the bible is listed (earth made before stars etc) you don't say, "Well, such a text is stupid beyond words. I will give it up".

 

No, you tie yourself up in knots, desperately clinging on to silly nonsense you were told when you were two.

 

Pathetic.

Religion has nothing to do with my thinking, especially on everything else. That's your assumption because you choose to think otherwise. Why do you believe you're right? And why do you bother trying to convince others what you believe? Believers in God aren't going to listen to your opinions as we have our own minds, as adults. 

 

It isn't any believers job to do anything besides spread the word. When people put up resistance, you aren't supposed to try and force their thinking to change. That's what free will is. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. 

 

Religion isn't there to control but to teach. And we don't need any particular religion to have a personal belief in God. God knows we aren't sheep as he gave us free will to choose our own destiny. You chose yours, let others choose theirs. 

 

I again, for at least the 5th time just here, decide what I want to do, and no one's teaching forced me to.That you can't get that is your deal. And that is pathetic.

 

[fredwiggy]

6 minutes ago, novanova said:

Just imagine, there are some people who think the bible is not a complete crock. BWAHAHAHA!!

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tomchivers/call-me-bald-again-i-double-dare-you

Are you trying to enlist others here to stop believing in God? It isn't going to work, and those that already don't believe, don't need any convincing by you, so why waste words trying?

[novanova]

8 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

That's debatable.

 

For instance, a perplexing number of mystics, from all religions, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism etc, have said they have seen how their consciousness is connected to the whole world. Why would mystics of completely different religions, from very different cultural backgrounds, all report the same results after contemplation?

 

Then there's the experiences of people who were dead and came back. There are also common threads these people report, despite being from different cultures and religions.

 

So to say there is "no" evidence seems debatable.

 

 

 

Empty statements, free of reproducible observations or measurements, do not constitute evidence.

 

More specifically:

- it would be weird to place much value on what comes from a mind that is in the process of shutting up shop

- many of the "mystic" texts have been shown to have come from hallucinogenics

- some people are mentally-ill, and see/hear things that are not there.

 

Jesus is an example - an itinerant schizophrenic who only woke up when on the cross - "My Lord, why hast thou forsaken me?"  Because gods don't exist.

[novanova]

8 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Are you trying to enlist others here to stop believing in God? It isn't going to work, and those that already don't believe, don't need any convincing by you, so why waste words trying?

Are you seriously saying you can read that list and keep believing in a god? Are you seeing a psychiatrist?

[fredwiggy]

2 minutes ago, novanova said:

Are you seriously saying you can read that list and keep believing in a god? Are you seeing a psychiatrist?

No, but I could be your psychiatrist, seeing you're not able to separate your thinking from the free will of others. I'm not forcing my thinking on you. I chose to believe. You choose not to. Let it go. In the end, you will know the truth, and it might be too late then to change your mind, but again, that's your deal.

[save the frogs]

11 hours ago, novanova said:

Jesus is an example - an itinerant schizophrenic who only woke up when on the cross - "My Lord, why hast thou forsaken me?"  Because gods don't exist.

 

Haha, that would be funny if Jesus was a homeless schizophrenic and an entire religion was based on him.

 

You should teach your kids to believe in aliens man. There might full disclosure during the Trump administration and your kids will have a leg up and won't be traumatized as much. 

 

[Cameroni]

2 minutes ago, novanova said:

Empty statements, free of reproducible observations or measurements, do not constitute evidence.

 

No, near death experiences have been studied seriously by science, and the studies report repeated patterns of experience. Some would call that evidence.

 

3 minutes ago, novanova said:

many of the "mystic" texts have been shown to have come from hallucinogenics

 

No, a lot of the mystics that report very similar conclusions took no hallucinogenics at all. Yet they came to very similar conclusions. Witness for instance the writings of  Christian Mystic Meister Eckhart and the Chinese Buddhist figure Huineng, both wrote about

 

" a state in which one loses the consciousness of time and space, of values and concepts, of being and non-being - "In this state he loses his consciousness of time and space, and of the subject-object dichotomy. All names, concepts, definitions, value and moral judgments are driven out of his consciousness. He loses even his consciousness of being. Therefore, this state is called, "The Great Death."" "

 

https://onlinephilosophy.org/blog/seclusion-and-non-attachment-paths-peace-mind

 

There is no evidence eiither took any drugs. 

[novanova]

18 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

No, but I could be your psychiatrist, seeing you're not able to separate your thinking from the free will of others. I'm not forcing my thinking on you. I chose to believe. You choose not to. Let it go. In the end, you will know the truth, and it might be too late then to change your mind, but again, that's your deal.

 

Yep, you are at it again - religion has made you unable to think clearly.

 

If a person is brainwashed as a small child, there is a good chance they CANNOT exercise free will regarding a particular topic. You are an example.

 

Suppose, when you were two, instead of silly nonsense about talking snakes and magic apples, you were told all about invisible dragons that fly above us. If that had happened, you would know be telling us about "free will" and "choose to believe" regarding dragons.

 

In that case, as now, you would be unable to see that it is the dreadful hijacking of small children's' minds that allows religion to continue. It has no basis in reality.

 

Brainwashing small children is wrong. Don't do it. Don't condone it. Don't pretend it has anything to do with choice or free will.