Has any American here started Medicare, Stopped it, then started it again?

[gk10012001]

I am on US Medicare.  Crazy how they do the IRMAA and premiums so I am considering dis enrolling, spending a year or a bit more in THailand, then returning to the USA and restarting Medicare.  I know there may e a 10% surcharge for each year one doesn't get Part B when first eligible, but I got no firm answers today when chatting with Medicare about exact time frames, if part of a year is prorated, etc.  They just do not handle non standard questions well from their playbooks.   Any experience comments appreciated

[Pib]

It's my understanding the Part B penalty is based on "12 month periods (i.e., full year) " not enrolled; it's not based on fractional years.   So it would not be prorated.

 

Say for example you enrolled 12 months late during an authorized enrollment period....that's a 10% penalty.  If enrolling 24 months late then 20%.   But what about some period between 12 and 24 (or any fractional year period)?  Well, if by some Medicare enrollment provision that you could enroll/reenroll 13 to 23 months late since that did not equal the next "whole 12 month" period of 24 months" then the late enrollment fee would be 10% for only a 12 month/1 year period.

 

See calculators below for some examples.   And preaching to choir I'm sure when I say a person can only enroll/rerolled under during certain times/under certain conditions.  It's not like someone who is at least 65 wakes up one day and decides to enroll and calls up Medicare or visit a SSA office to enroll hoping they will be enrolled effective the beginning of the upcoming month....nope, when a person will be able to enroll/reenroll will depends on the open season/special enrollment period which would apply to the person which means he might not get enrolled until numerous months later which might effect the penalty percentage since it based on date the enrollment become effective vs the day someone applied for enrollment. 

 

https://themedicarefamily.com/calculators/part-b-penalty/

 

https://www.resourcemedicare.com/medicare-tools/penalty-calculators

 

[gk10012001]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

It's my understanding the Part B penalty is based on "12 month periods (i.e., full year) " not enrolled; it's not based on fractional years.   So it would not be prorated.

 

Say for example you enrolled 12 months late during an authorized enrollment period....that's a 10% penalty.  If enrolling 24 months late then 20%.   But what about some period between 12 and 24 (or any fractional year period)?  Well, if by some Medicare enrollment provision that you could enroll/reenroll 13 to 23 months late since that did not equal the next "whole 12 month" period of 24 months" then the late enrollment fee would be 10% for only a 12 month/1 year period.

 

See calculators below for some examples.   And preaching to choir I'm sure when I say a person can only enroll/rerolled under during certain times/under certain conditions.  It's not like someone who is at least 65 wakes up one day and decides to enroll and calls up Medicare or visit a SSA office to enroll hoping they will be enrolled effective the beginning of the upcoming month....nope, when a person will be able to enroll/reenroll will depends on the open season/special enrollment period which would apply to the person which means he might not get enrolled until numerous months later which might effect the penalty percentage since it based on date the enrollment become effective vs the day someone applied for enrollment. 

 

https://themedicarefamily.com/calculators/part-b-penalty/

 

https://www.resourcemedicare.com/medicare-tools/penalty-calculators

 

fantastically useful response.  Thank you very much.

[gk10012001]

Does Medicare/SSA automatically refund or give credit for overpayments?  For example, right now in 2025 I am paying 670 a month which is ridiculous but is based on past income years which were in the 350,000 range (slot machine jackpots and high engineer pay).  I understand that and I am trying to work with the SSA to get that reduced to a more reasonable level now since I just retired and my MAGI income this year will be in the 150,000 range at most.  I know this same situation happens to thousands of people every year.  They retire from a high paying job but are still paying high IRMAA.  I know people have gotten their IRMAA reduced but my first attempt with filing a SS-44 failed either I did it wrong of the SSA drones don't understand their own forms.  Anyway..

 

  So my question is after this year when my 2025 taxes are filed and also after 2026 when my taxes are filed the SSA will see my income for those years is in the 150,000 range which is much lower than the 350,000 years.  So for 2025 I would have paid way too much IRMAA.  Will the SSA automatically issue me refunds or credits for having over paid for this year?  Try as I might I can not find any official text about that on all my internet searches.  

[Pib]

It's my understanding that an IRMAA refund is automatic "only when you qualify under one of the life changing events on the SSA-44 form" (see snapshot below)  which you said you submitted but it was disapproved.  High income/jackpot winnings is not one of the accepted life changing events for IRMAA reduction....if anything, it just means you are more able to pay a higher rate.   

 

Unless you can get a a SSA-44 approved you have "not been overcharged" based on an accepted life changing event which would then require a refund....the refunded would be automatic with the SSA-44 approval for one of the accepted life changing events.

 

Now regarding the lowering/removal of IRMAS when you MAGI changes that is automatic but it does not result in the SSA refunding those tax years when your MAGI triggered IRMAA.   With the automatic change your IRMAA requirement either decreases (maybe to zero) or increases....all depends on MAGI for the tax year being looked at for IRMAA determination purposes.

 

So, unless you can get a SSA-44 approved for the IRMAA years you will not get a refund for those years.

 

 

 

 

[gk10012001]

8 hours ago, Pib said:

It's my understanding that an IRMAA refund is automatic "only when you qualify under one of the life changing events on the SSA-44 form" (see snapshot below)  which you said you submitted but it was disapproved.  High income/jackpot winnings is not one of the accepted life changing events for IRMAA reduction....if anything, it just means you are more able to pay a higher rate.   

 

Unless you can get a a SSA-44 approved you have "not been overcharged" based on an accepted life changing event which would then require a refund....the refunded would be automatic with the SSA-44 approval for one of the accepted life changing events.

 

Now regarding the lowering/removal of IRMAS when you MAGI changes that is automatic but it does not result in the SSA refunding those tax years when your MAGI triggered IRMAA.   With the automatic change your IRMAA requirement either decreases (maybe to zero) or increases....all depends on MAGI for the tax year being looked at for IRMAA determination purposes.

 

So, unless you can get a SSA-44 approved for the IRMAA years yM

 

 

My life changing event is that now this year I am not working and am not making much money.  Why SSA didn't understand my SS 44 is beyond me but I am working on that.  I clearly will not be making the income this year that I am paying IRMAA for due to previous years so it seems like a reduction should be clearly allowed.  Oh well, we shall see.

 

  But it does not seem that when the dust clears and if I do nothing that credit will be given for paying so much this year even though when the tax years are completed and filed it will be clear I was paying too much.  That does not seem right.

Thanks for the response

[Pib]

Seems like the key may be providing proof you are now "retired" like some documentation from your former employer saying you retired from your job.   Otherwise you may may have to wait until you file a tax return proving your reduced MAGI for the year the IRMAA is being charged...and then hope that might also qualify for a refund for the IRMAA.  Yea...seems the key may be in proving you are truly retired now and making a lower income.   Good luck...hope it works out. 

[gk10012001]

On 6/30/2025 at 10:13 AM, Pib said:

Seems like the key may be providing proof you are now "retired" like some documentation from your former employer saying you retired from your job.   Otherwise you may may have to wait until you file a tax return proving your reduced MAGI for the year the IRMAA is being charged...and then hope that might also qualify for a refund for the IRMAA.  Yea...seems the key may be in proving you are truly retired now and making a lower income.   Good luck...hope it works out. 

 

On 6/30/2025 at 10:13 AM, Pib said:

Seems like the key may be providing proof you are now "retired" like some documentation from your former employer saying you retired from your job.   Otherwise you may may have to wait until you file a tax return proving your reduced MAGI for the year the IRMAA is being charged...and then hope that might also qualify for a refund for the IRMAA.  Yea...seems the key may be in proving you are truly retired now and making a lower income.   Good luck...hope it works out. 

So I went to the local SSA office in Palm beach.  On a side note I hear more english spoken at the Thailand immigration office than at this Palm Beach office.  Anyway.  Surprisingly the reduction in IRMAA will NOT and can NOT be for this year regardless of any proof.  The SS 44 form is so poorly constructed.  All it will do, is reduce the IRMAA for 2026, which normally would be based on the MAGI from 2024 (2024 is still a high MAGI year).  So they only give you one year relief basically.  So while they recognize that you should pay a proper premium based on your MAGI, they on the other hand stick to the rule that they initially base the IRMAA on the tax year MAGI from two years earlier.  

 

  So say you made 300 k in 2023, and 300k in 2024, retired in December 2024.  In 2025 you are stuck paying the big IRMAA no matter what form you file as they will base that on 2023 MAGI.  In 2026 you would normally be still paying big IRMAA based on 2024 but the SS 44 form will let you estimate your 2025 income, and they will then use that to calculate your IRMAA for 2026, instead of using that big MAGI from 2024.  Why one can't get the immediate reduction makes no sense to me and seems grossly unfair to the whole idea that IRMAA should be based on income for a given year.  Any look back initial rates is just used for convenience as that is the tax forms they have automatically in front of them.  Why we can reduce one year based on an estimate you supply but not the actual year....

 

  So stuck with a high IRMAA for one year.  Well its better than two, but the form and agents in no way explained how that works and why one can't get a low IRMAA for the year you are now retired.

 

  What was interesting is that absolutely could not get clear answer on what happens if you under pay your IRMAA.  Say you under paid based on your income estimate you submit, it seems they will bill you later to collect that.  Also, if one somehow overpays IRMAA, it was not clear at all the process to get that either refunded or credited.  The SSA website mentions some policy documents but following the links gives no actionable intelligence as we say in the military.

 

 

[Pib]

13 hours ago, gk10012001 said:

 

So I went to the local SSA office in Palm beach.  On a side note I hear more english spoken at the Thailand immigration office than at this Palm Beach office.  Anyway.  Surprisingly the reduction in IRMAA will NOT and can NOT be for this year regardless of any proof.  The SS 44 form is so poorly constructed.  All it will do, is reduce the IRMAA for 2026, which normally would be based on the MAGI from 2024 (2024 is still a high MAGI year).  So they only give you one year relief basically.  So while they recognize that you should pay a proper premium based on your MAGI, they on the other hand stick to the rule that they initially base the IRMAA on the tax year MAGI from two years earlier.  

 

  So say you made 300 k in 2023, and 300k in 2024, retired in December 2024.  In 2025 you are stuck paying the big IRMAA no matter what form you file as they will base that on 2023 MAGI.  In 2026 you would normally be still paying big IRMAA based on 2024 but the SS 44 form will let you estimate your 2025 income, and they will then use that to calculate your IRMAA for 2026, instead of using that big MAGI from 2024.  Why one can't get the immediate reduction makes no sense to me and seems grossly unfair to the whole idea that IRMAA should be based on income for a given year.  Any look back initial rates is just used for convenience as that is the tax forms they have automatically in front of them.  Why we can reduce one year based on an estimate you supply but not the actual year....

 

  So stuck with a high IRMAA for one year.  Well its better than two, but the form and agents in no way explained how that works and why one can't get a low IRMAA for the year you are now retired.

 

  What was interesting is that absolutely could not get clear answer on what happens if you under pay your IRMAA.  Say you under paid based on your income estimate you submit, it seems they will bill you later to collect that.  Also, if one somehow overpays IRMAA, it was not clear at all the process to get that either refunded or credited.  The SSA website mentions some policy documents but following the links gives no actionable intelligence as we say in the military.

 

 

 

From SSA POMS website.  POMS are the regulations/instructions that the SSA follows in administration of the SSA/Medicare program.

 

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0601101050

[gk10012001]

9 hours ago, Pib said:

 

From SSA POMS website.  POMS are the regulations/instructions that the SSA follows in administration of the SSA/Medicare program.

 

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0601101050

Yes but the devil is in the details.  They do little if anything automatically.  One has to make requests.  The key words are initial determination.  If one pays too much for one year, I am sure based on my recent meeting, that nothing will happen without a person doing something.  But, this is all new to me and I will find out as the years progress.  I did just start my SSA.  Figured at age 68 enough is enough.  I will get 4,000 a month right now which is plenty for Thailand as needed. And I won't be touching any of my IRAs until the RMDs require it.  They are doing quite well.  My ROTH IRA of course will be tax free.  My traditional IRA withdrawals will be taxable, which is fine.

[Pib]

19 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

Yes but the devil is in the details.  They do little if anything automatically.  One has to make requests.  The key words are initial determination.  If one pays too much for one year, I am sure based on my recent meeting, that nothing will happen without a person doing something.  But, this is all new to me and I will find out as the years progress. 

When did you officially file a SSA 44 form...that is the date SSA received it.   Say add 10 days to the date you mailed it.   What date do you esimate?

 

The reason I ask is the reason the Palm Beach may have said no reduction till next year if your SSA 44 is approved is because you may have missed the window for filing a SSA 44 for the current year (which I think from quick review of the SSA POMS would have been end of March 2025) which means the SSA 44 (if approved) would not result in an IRMAA reduction until this coming 1 Jan 2026.   Now if filing the SSA 44 before the end of March 2025 that could have resulted in the IRMMA reduction effective 1 Jan 2025. 

 

 Yea, I think from quick review of the SSA POMS and the IRMAA notice you would have got in the mail in late 2024 that it "may" be you may have missed the SSA 44 filing "window/cut off" for it to effect/reduce/eliminate your 2025 IRMAA rate.  But I'm not sure....it's just the all the lawyer talk in the SSA POMS has me thinking that right now.  

 

Good luck...hope you get the IRMAA reduced "before" it would automatically go down due to  lower income reflected on future filed federal tax return.  Cheers.

 

 

[gk10012001]

35 minutes ago, Pib said:

When did you officially file a SSA 44 form...that is the date SSA received it.   Say add 10 days to the date you mailed it.   What date do you esimate?

 

The reason I ask is the reason the Palm Beach may have said no reduction till next year if your SSA 44 is approved is because you may have missed the window for filing a SSA 44 for the current year (which I think from quick review of the SSA POMS would have been end of March 2025) which means the SSA 44 (if approved) would not result in an IRMAA reduction until this coming 1 Jan 2026.   Now if filing the SSA 44 before the end of March 2025 that could have resulted in the IRMMA reduction effective 1 Jan 2025. 

 

 Yea, I think from quick review of the SSA POMS and the IRMAA notice you would have got in the mail in late 2024 that it "may" be you may have missed the SSA 44 filing "window/cut off" for it to effect/reduce/eliminate your 2025 IRMAA rate.  But I'm not sure....it's just the all the lawyer talk in the SSA POMS has me thinking that right now.  

 

Good luck...hope you get the IRMAA reduced "before" it would automatically go down due to  lower income reflected on future filed federal tax return.  Cheers.

 

 

I was not aware about a date.  I actually filed my first SS 44 last November expecting it to reduce my IRMAA in 2025 as the form asks you to estimate income for 2025 which I did.  Instead they said I did not have any income reduction which made no sense and they did not even consider doing anything for 2025.  So it seems like a catch 22.  I have spoken to three SSA agents now, two on the phone and one in person.  And no matter how I phrase things I always get incomplete answers.  Siiiiigh.  I did not file a SS 44 this year yet as I was waiting until I met with a SSA person in person.  His position was black and white in his mind.  File the form this year at any time and it will reduce my IRMAA for 2026. Nothing can be done for 2025.  And he said nothing could ever have been done for 2025.  Makes no sense.  Seems like they are going to whack you for one year no matter what.  Now, after 2025 ends, and taxes are filed they will clearly show I paid too much IRMAA for that year if and I mean if the final intent is to really have people pay a IRMAA that applies directly to the MAGI for that year. I will broach that at that point and see about getting credit or refund applied.  But I am not hopeful
 

[gk10012001]

So today out of the blue, Medicare/SSA decided to change from dismissing my SS 44 IRMAA reduction request which I submitted n April, to now doing it.    They changed my Premium from its ridiculous 670 to 274 for all of 2025.  Now I have been paying 670 every month this year so I am guessing I will get some credits for overpaying going forward at least for this year?   

 

This is good news for me.  Now it looks like my estimate of my MAGI for 2025 is going to be a bit higher then I originally estimated due to more slot machine jackpots, but I won't be off by more than one of those IRMAA pay table jumps.  I also am starting social security I think I get my first payment the last week of July or maybe not until August.  It depends on how fast they process my claim.  Since I am on medicare and SSA automatically deducts the premiums from your SSA benefit payment, they may need a little extra time to line things up.

[KhunLA]

The penalty adds up quick if off for a long time.  I stopped shortly after receiving SS, 22 ish yrs ago, and to join back was close to $15k USD.  Not sure I can get that sick here, as half mil buys a lot of care in TH.

[gk10012001]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

The penalty adds up quick if off for a long time.  I stopped shortly after receiving SS, 22 ish yrs ago, and to join back was close to $15k USD.  Not sure I can get that sick here, as half mil buys a lot of care in TH.

yes.  10 % every year is the penalty. And that compounds.  its quite a racket

[gk10012001]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

The penalty adds up quick if off for a long time.  I stopped shortly after receiving SS, 22 ish yrs ago, and to join back was close to $15k USD.  Not sure I can get that sick here, as half mil buys a lot of care in TH.

i was told my one phone chat person that one can re enroll upon returning to the USA from living overseas and you would qualify for a special enrollment period and would not have to wait until the October to January general open enrollment period.  that sounded a little too convenient so further digging seems to say you can get the special enrollment period if you lived overseas at least 12 months.  So the devil is in the details but it looks like I got things going in the right direction.

[Pib]

6 hours ago, gk10012001 said:

i was told my one phone chat person that one can re enroll upon returning to the USA from living overseas and you would qualify for a special enrollment period and would not have to wait until the October to January general open enrollment period.  that sounded a little too convenient so further digging seems to say you can get the special enrollment period if you lived overseas at least 12 months.  So the devil is in the details but it looks like I got things going in the right direction.

 

Yes, the devil is in the details and more details apply to qualify for what you say such as having creditable health insurance in the eyes of Medicare, was volunteering as part of a non-profit organization, etc.    Special enrollment does not apply to just returning from being retired overseas unless specific conditions are met.  It's hard to escape the Part B penalty.

 

https://www.medicareinteractive.org/understanding-medicare/health-coverage-options/medicare-and-living-abroad/medicare-coverage-for-those-who-live-abroad-but-plan-to-move-back-to-the-united-states-or-travel-back-frequently

 

 

 

[gamb00ler]

On 6/30/2025 at 3:36 AM, gk10012001 said:

For example, right now in 2025 I am paying 670 a month which is ridiculous but is based on past income years which were in the 350,000 range (slot machine jackpots and high engineer pay).

Yeah.... how the IRS taxes gambling winnings for non-professionals is very unfair.  On top of that, if you do file your gambling winnings correctly, some untrained IRS employee may not know that your filing is correct.

 

I suggest you PM me for some advice on taxes and gambling.  Remember you only have 3 years to correct filing mistakes by filing a 1040-X.  Here's a homework assignment for you to learn about filing taxes for gambling winnings:  https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-counsel/am2008011.pdf