7 minutes ago, Chris.C said:

This kind of statement, implying that an entire population's suffering is due to some inherent biological flaw, or cultural backwardness, is not only scientifically dubious but morally repugnant. It echoes the same dehumanizing logic the Nazis used to justify the persecution and extermination of Jews, Romani people, and others they deemed “genetically inferior” or “degenerate.”

 

They are suffering from Islam

Just now, Chris.C said:

This kind of statement, implying that an entire population's suffering is due to some inherent biological flaw, or cultural backwardness, is not only scientifically dubious but morally repugnant. It echoes the same dehumanizing logic the Nazis used to justify the persecution and extermination of Jews, Romani people, and others they deemed “genetically inferior” or “degenerate.”

The data is clear. More than 40% of marriages are between relatives. Which makes a lot of the kids kinda goofy looking. And physically or mentally weak. 

 

The cultural backwardness leads to biological flaws. 

 

I notice you didn't dispute the facts, just got outraged by them.

9 minutes ago, proton said:

 

They are suffering from Islam

Absolute nonsense - Gazans aren’t suffering because of Islam - they’re suffering because they’ve been bombed, blockaded, and brutalised for decades. Saying they’re suffering from Islam is as ignorant as me saying you’re suffering from Judaism. That kind of thinking - blaming an entire people’s suffering on their religion - is exactly how the Nazis justified their persecution of Jews in the 1930s and 40s. It’s not just vile - it’s dangerous.

6 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

The data is clear. More than 40% of marriages are between relatives. Which makes a lot of the kids kinda goofy looking. And physically or mentally weak. 

 

The cultural backwardness leads to biological flaws. 

 

I notice you didn't dispute the facts, just got outraged by them.

The “data” you’re quoting is just a mask for bigotry. Two U.S. Presidents - Franklin D. Roosevelt and John Adams - married their cousins. Were they “goofy looking” or “mentally weak”? No - they were leaders of a global superpower.

Claiming that a culture leads to biological flaws is pure racism - and it’s exactly the kind of thinking Hitler pushed in the 1930s. You're not sharing facts - you're recycling fascist talking points dressed up as concern.

And yes, I got outraged - because that kind of rhetoric has always led to violence, oppression, and genocide. You are disrespecting your ancestors by not learning what happened by the Nazis.

Just now, Chris.C said:

The “data” you’re quoting is just a mask for bigotry. Two U.S. Presidents - Franklin D. Roosevelt and John Adams - married their cousins. Were they “goofy looking” or “mentally weak”? No - they were leaders of a global superpower.

Claiming that a culture leads to biological flaws is pure racism - and it’s exactly the kind of thinking Hitler pushed in the 1930s. You're not sharing facts - you're recycling fascist talking points dressed up as concern.

And yes, I got outraged - because that kind of rhetoric has always led to violence, oppression, and genocide. You are disrespecting your ancestors by not learning what happened by the Nazis.

Exceptions do not disprove the rule. Or do you think there are no consequences of marrying close family members? And no laws should exist to prevent it?

 

4 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Exceptions do not disprove the rule. Or do you think there are no consequences of marrying close family members? And no laws should exist to prevent it?

 

There are risks with close-relative marriages - Im not denying that. But what you said wasn’t a medical point - it was a sweeping insult to millions of people, implying they're “goofy looking” and “mentally weak” because of their culture. That’s not science - that’s bigotry.
And no - exceptions don’t disprove the rule, but they do prove your generalisation is lazy and prejudiced. If cousin marriage automatically led to dysfunction, we wouldn’t have two U.S. presidents and countless historical figures who came from those marriages .

There are laws and medical guidelines for a reason - but reducing an entire population to a punchline isn’t about genetics - it’s about hate.

The irony is rich coming from a group whose ancestors were persecuted for similar hateful generalisations about family and culture - yet here you are repeating the same tired, dangerous ideas.

Btw, here's a few of your lot who married their first cousins. 

 

Albert Einstein 

Sigmund Freud

 Leon Trotsky 

Barbara Streisand

So this according to you gives hamas the right to use hospitals, schools and other public buildings to tunnel under then use the palestinian people as human sheilds, hamas are terrorists that have no concern for their people only their hate of the jews, when Palestine was first set up they were given millions  but hamas who were the elected govt officials used the money to dig tunnels etc ready for war rather than help the people it was meant for, this is a fact, hamas considered fighting Israel more important than making sure their people were taken care of. Sounds more like you are a hamas supporter than someone concerned with actual non combatants that live there, if you care so much for hamas why arent you there fighting with them, I am sure they would welcome one of their loyal fellow jew haters into their arms

 

 

On 8/3/2025 at 3:36 PM, Chris.C said:

 

Have you any idea the difference in fire power between the IDF and Hamas?
 

1 hour ago, Chris.C said:

This kind of statement, implying that an entire population's suffering is due to some inherent biological flaw, or cultural backwardness, is not only scientifically dubious but morally repugnant. It echoes the same dehumanizing logic the Nazis used to justify the persecution and extermination of Jews, Romani people, and others they deemed “genetically inferior” or “degenerate.”

Thank you for that, and thank you for making sense. Frankly, this whole thread sickens me. On the one hand are those who “blame Islam” (whatever that means) or “inbreeding” as an excuse to stereotype a whole population as medieval barbarians, and if they’re bombed back to the Stone Age, so what, they’ve never left the Stone Age. And on the other hand are those who think that Israel should be destroyed and dissolved, its population killed or set adrift, because, well, they’re Jews!

 

Sure, it’s an awful conflict, and the reasons for it go back 80 years and more, and solving it will require major concessions on both sides. But the irrational and frankly stupid hatred for one side or the other that I see here reminds me of a statement used in one form or another by St. Paul, Walt Kelly, Oliver Stone, and a host of others in between: We have met the enemy, and he is us.

1 hour ago, Chris.C said:

There are risks with close-relative marriages - Im not denying that. But what you said wasn’t a medical point - it was a sweeping insult to millions of people, implying they're “goofy looking” and “mentally weak” because of their culture. That’s not science - that’s bigotry.
And no - exceptions don’t disprove the rule, but they do prove your generalisation is lazy and prejudiced. If cousin marriage automatically led to dysfunction, we wouldn’t have two U.S. presidents and countless historical figures who came from those marriages .

There are laws and medical guidelines for a reason - but reducing an entire population to a punchline isn’t about genetics - it’s about hate.

The irony is rich coming from a group whose ancestors were persecuted for similar hateful generalisations about family and culture - yet here you are repeating the same tired, dangerous ideas.

Never said AUTOMATICALLY,  stop strawmanning. And, just to be accurate, all the famous folks you are promoting MARRIED their cousins, they were not the product of cousin marriages. Different situation entirely. 

 

And again, what I am saying is accurate.And based on culture. So yes, I will judge a culture that promotes unhealthy activity.  And one that also uses children born with birth defects as their "poster children" for starvation. Reprehensible. 

38 minutes ago, seajae said:

So this according to you gives hamas the right to use hospitals, schools and other public buildings to tunnel under then use the palestinian people as human sheilds, hamas are terrorists that have no concern for their people only their hate of the jews, when Palestine was first set up they were given millions  but hamas who were the elected govt officials used the money to dig tunnels etc ready for war rather than help the people it was meant for, this is a fact, hamas considered fighting Israel more important than making sure their people were taken care of. Sounds more like you are a hamas supporter than someone concerned with actual non combatants that live there, if you care so much for hamas why arent you there fighting with them, I am sure they would welcome one of their loyal fellow jew haters into their arms

 

 

No logically explanation to use bombs and artilery attacks on hospitals and schools to take out the alleged embedment of Hamas military in these civilian facilities. This kind of disproportionate bombings that have wide area effects caused complete destruction of civilian infrastructure and countless civilian causaulties. It is collective punishment and inhumane. 

21 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Never said AUTOMATICALLY,  stop strawmanning. And, just to be accurate, all the famous folks you are promoting MARRIED their cousins, they were not the product of cousin marriages. Different situation entirely. 

 

And again, what I am saying is accurate.And based on culture. So yes, I will judge a culture that promotes unhealthy activity.  And one that also uses children born with birth defects as their "poster children" for starvation. Reprehensible. 

Stop trying to dig out of the hole you’ve dug for yourself by pretending you never said highly racial stuff. You didn’t make a neutral cultural critique - you mocked millions of people as “goofy looking” and “mentally weak” because of who their parents are. That’s not analysis - it’s classic dehumanisation.

Now you're backpedalling with technicalities - trying to split hairs between cousin marriages and children of cousin marriages, as if that somehow justifies what you said. It doesn’t. The core point stands - cousin marriage exists in many cultures, including Western and Jewish ones, and singling out one group for it while mocking their children is hypocrisy at best - bigotry at worst.

 You weren’t making a factual point - you were expressing contempt. And now that it’s been exposed, you’re deflecting. But the record’s clear - and so is your intent.  

And for the record, from familiar text-

 

The Talmud (Yevamot 62b) includes a saying attributed to Rav:

“It is proper for a man to marry the daughter of his sister.”

7 minutes ago, Chris.C said:

Stop trying to dig out of the hole you’ve dug for yourself by pretending you never said highly racial stuff. You didn’t make a neutral cultural critique - you mocked millions of people as “goofy looking” and “mentally weak” because of who their parents are. That’s not analysis - it’s classic dehumanisation.

Now you're backpedalling with technicalities - trying to split hairs between cousin marriages and children of cousin marriages, as if that somehow justifies what you said. It doesn’t. The core point stands - cousin marriage exists in many cultures, including Western and Jewish ones, and singling out one group for it while mocking their children is hypocrisy at best - bigotry at worst.

 You weren’t making a factual point - you were expressing contempt. And now that it’s been exposed, you’re deflecting. But the record’s clear - and so is your intent.  

And for the record, from familiar text-

 

The Talmud (Yevamot 62b) includes a saying attributed to Rav:

“It is proper for a man to marry the daughter of his sister.”

Cousin marriage is frowned upon in modern Christianity and Judaism.  Historically it was more common, but not anymore. The statistics bear it out. Yet in many Muslim areas it is still de rigeur. 

 

And yes, the number of goofy looking and mentallly weak offspring is directly related to the practice. It isn't racial at all. Gazans aren't a race. Muslims aren't a race.  

7 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Cousin marriage is frowned upon in modern Christianity and Judaism.  Historically it was more common, but not anymore. The statistics bear it out. Yet in many Muslim areas it is still de rigeur. 

 

And yes, the number of goofy looking and mentallly weak offspring is directly related to the practice. It isn't racial at all. Gazans aren't a race. Muslims aren't a race.  

Shame shame shame.

You already gave the game away earlier when you showed you follow Tobias Hutch, and said, “Yes, I will judge a culture that promotes unhealthy activity.” Now you're trying to change that as a neutral health concern, but let’s be honest - the tone, language, and sweeping generalisations you used make it obvious this isn't about public health. You weren’t calmly discussing medical outcomes - you were ridiculing people as “goofy looking” and “mentally weak.

And your attempt to sidestep racism by saying “Muslims aren’t a race” is an old, tired dodge. You don’t have to target a race to be a bigot - religious and ethnic prejudice exist too. Historically, people have used the exact same logic to dehumanise Jews, Catholics, Black people, Roma - claiming it wasn’t “about race” but about “culture” or “health” or “social decay.” That kind of thinking has an ugly track record - and you’re repeating it now, whether you admit it or not.

Cousin marriage is more common in some regions - but so are poverty, war, lack of access to education and healthcare. Reducing all of that complexity to some crude stereotype is lazy, ignorant, and dangerous. And it certainly isn't science.

You’re not making people think - you’re just using selective stats and outdated talking points to reinforce your own contempt. If this were just about health risks, you’d be talking about solutions. But you're not. You're just pointing fingers.

26 minutes ago, Chris.C said:

Shame shame shame.

You already gave the game away earlier when you showed you follow Tobias Hutch, and said, “Yes, I will judge a culture that promotes unhealthy activity.” Now you're trying to change that as a neutral health concern, but let’s be honest - the tone, language, and sweeping generalisations you used make it obvious this isn't about public health. You weren’t calmly discussing medical outcomes - you were ridiculing people as “goofy looking” and “mentally weak.

And your attempt to sidestep racism by saying “Muslims aren’t a race” is an old, tired dodge. You don’t have to target a race to be a bigot - religious and ethnic prejudice exist too. Historically, people have used the exact same logic to dehumanise Jews, Catholics, Black people, Roma - claiming it wasn’t “about race” but about “culture” or “health” or “social decay.” That kind of thinking has an ugly track record - and you’re repeating it now, whether you admit it or not.

Cousin marriage is more common in some regions - but so are poverty, war, lack of access to education and healthcare. Reducing all of that complexity to some crude stereotype is lazy, ignorant, and dangerous. And it certainly isn't science.

You’re not making people think - you’re just using selective stats and outdated talking points to reinforce your own contempt. If this were just about health risks, you’d be talking about solutions. But you're not. You're just pointing fingers.

You want a solution? It's pretty easy- stop shtupping your cousin.  And using your so-called "holy book" to justify it. Come and join the 20th century at least. 

 

And as usual, you traffic in generalizations and emotion rather than the salient point- that Hamas has used children with birth defects as props to enhance their starvation narrative.  And that such children tragically are easy to find in a place where cousins marry, and have for generations. 

 

Instead, you try to play language policeman and cultural defender to excuse an outdated and horrid practice. 

 

And let's not even begin to talk about forced marriages and child marriage, which accounts for 3 in 10 marriages in Palestinian areas...

 

To remain silent on Gaza is not neutrality, it is complicity - and enough is enough

 

In a recent address to the United Nations, Mary Robinson, former Irish President and a senior member of The Elders, noted that, following an Israeli Defence Forces airstrike on the Holy Family Parish compound in Gaza, killing three and injuring 10, including the parish priest, prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu telephoned Pope Leo to apologise. 

 

But as Robinson pointedly asked: where are the apologies for the tens of thousands of others who have been indiscriminately killed since the Israeli bombardment of Gaza began 22 months ago?

 

Where is the honest accounting for the children mutilated, the mothers buried in their kitchens, the fathers killed as they queued for food, the paramedics and aid workers slain while tending to the wounded? What of the journalists and UN staff who, though visibly marked and clearly identified, were nonetheless treated as expendable?

 

To remain silent on Gaza is not neutrality, it is complicity - and enough is enough

 

 

2 minutes ago, bannork said:

But as Robinson pointedly asked: where are the apologies for the tens of thousands of others who have been indiscriminately killed since the Israeli bombardment of Gaza began 22 months ago?

 

   Anti Semitism right there .

Has any other Country ever been asked to apologise for killing people whom they are at war with ?

   Were the Germans  asked to apologise for killing British   in 1943 ?

Are the Ukrainians being asked to apologies for killbit Russians ?

‘Unlimited’ food aid alone would be too late to save thousands of Gazans from malnutrition, says surgeon

 

Professor Maynard, who started volunteering in Gaza 15 years ago, added that the ongoing crisis was a “man-made, forced starvation by the Israelis” and that it was particularly impacting babies and children.

 

“The Israelis have not allowed any nutritional supplements, formula feeds, for babies and children to come in for many, many months.” He added that some of his colleagues who attempted to bring formula feed in their luggage had “every container” removed by Israeli border guards.

 

Prof Maynard said that the lack of nutrition in hospital meant that those who were malnourished were immuno-suppressed and unable to fully heal from major surgeries – including adult patients.

 

‘Unlimited’ food aid alone would be too late to save thousands of Gazans from malnutrition, says surgeon

 

Palestinian freelance photographer munching a sandwich in Gaza on his way to photograph starving children:

 

 

https://www.camera.org/article/when-journalists-become-the-story/

 

He and his buddy look well-fed and healthy, even if no one else in Gaza is.

Terrible thirst hits Gaza with polluted aquifers and broken pipelines

 

Though some water comes from small desalination units run by aid agencies, most is drawn from wells in a brackish aquifer that has been further polluted by sewage and chemicals seeping through the rubble, spreading diarrhoea and hepatitis.

 

 

Israel stopped all water and electricity supply to Gaza early in the war but resumed some supply later though the pipeline network in the territory has been badly damaged.

 

Most water and sanitation infrastructure has been destroyed and pumps from the aquifer often rely on electricity from small generators - for which fuel is rarely available.

 

Terrible thirst hits Gaza with polluted aquifers and broken pipelines

At Shifa hospital in the Gaza Strip, nothing is sterilised, so Dr Jamal Salha and other surgeons wash their instruments in soap. Infections are rampant. The stench of medical waste is overwhelming. And flies are everywhere.

 

Without painkillers, patients moan while lying on metal beds lining the corridors. There’s no electricity and no ventilation amid searing heat, leaving anxious visitors to fan bedridden relatives with pieces of cardboard.

 

Shifa, once the largest hospital in Gaza and the cornerstone of its health care system, is a shell of its former self after 22 months of war. The hospital complex the size of seven soccer fields has been devastated by frequent bombings, two Israeli raids and blockades on food, medicine and equipment. Its exhausted staff works around the clock to save lives.

 

Inside Shifa hospital: Gaza’s collapsing lifeline amid war

 

1 hour ago, bannork said:

Inside Shifa hospital: Gaza’s collapsing lifeline amid war

At Shifa hospital in the Gaza Strip, nothing is sterilised, so Dr Jamal Salha and other surgeons wash their instruments in soap. Infections are rampant. The stench of medical waste is overwhelming. And flies are everywhere.

 

Without painkillers, patients moan while lying on metal beds lining the corridors. There’s no electricity and no ventilation amid searing heat, leaving anxious visitors to fan bedridden relatives with pieces of cardboard.

 

Shifa, once the largest hospital in Gaza and the cornerstone of its health care system, is a shell of its former self after 22 months of war. The hospital complex the size of seven soccer fields has been devastated by frequent bombings, two Israeli raids and blockades on food, medicine and equipment. Its exhausted staff works around the clock to save lives.

 

Inside Shifa hospital: Gaza’s collapsing lifeline amid war

 

 

   Palestinians really need to surrender and admit defeat in this war.

They are just prolonging their own suffering 

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Palestinians really need to surrender and admit defeat in this war.

They are just prolonging their own suffering 

.... but the suffering of their own people is the most effective weapon used by Hamas. 

On 8/5/2025 at 12:13 PM, Hanaguma said:

You want a solution? It's pretty easy- stop shtupping your cousin.  And using your so-called "holy book" to justify it. Come and join the 20th century at least. 

I’m not a Muslim. I get the vibe from your posts that as a Jew you think you are superior to Muslims. 

21 hours ago, Kinnock said:

.... but the suffering of their own people is the most effective weapon used by Hamas. 

It’s a thin line. If Oct 7 didn’t happen, Palestine was never going to get a state, few cared or even knew.

Just after Oct 7, every knew and due to biased media were on Israel’s side. Now, Israel have dug themselves into a big hole and it will be very hard to get out in all of our lifetimes. Israel are now known by many in the West as the aggressors, and used Oct 7 incident to totally flatten 85% of Gaza, including schools, hospitals, mosques, cultural centers, etc. They are trying to hide it but can’t forever, then Israel will be shunned, and rightfully. Sadly, even the US have banned shunning Israelis or even demonstrating against them, as have the UK with Palestine Action.

 

 

The Israeli troll farm got onto this thread early, with there denials and misinformation. There is a reason why Israel denies most Journalists access to Gaza - because it would undermine their lies about what they are doing - 

 

Israel always -

DENY

DENY

DENY

 

Only works the first 100 times

 

In its report released on Thursday titled: "This is not aid. This is orchestrated killing," the group said it treated an 8-year-old girl with a gunshot wound to the chest and a 12-year-old boy with a gunshot wound to the abdomen at two MSF clinics near facilities run by the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF)

 

Both were reportedly injured while queueing for food. MSF said the patients' accounts of their experiences at the GHF distribution centres are of dehumanization and violence that is targeted, indiscriminate and "more than alarming."

 

Between June 7 and July 24, a total of 1,380 victims arrived at two MSF clinics, according to the report. Twenty-eight of them were already dead. Among the injured were 71 minors, including 25 under the age of 15. All had come from GHF distribution centres, where shootings repeatedly occur.

 

Doctors Without Borders decries 'orchestrated killing' at GHF centres

 

MSF calls for an end to GHF aid distribution

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 8/6/2025 at 5:34 AM, Evil Penevil said:

Palestinian freelance photographer munching a sandwich in Gaza on his way to photograph starving children:

 

 

https://www.camera.org/article/when-journalists-become-the-story/

 

He and his buddy look well-fed and healthy, even if no one else in Gaza is.

Hey! There's an idea. Why doesn't Israel let in foreign journalists to report on the situation regarding starvation in Gaza?

They won't.

I wonder why. Could it be they don't want the truth to come out?

21 minutes ago, bannork said:

Hey! There's an idea. Why doesn't Israel let in foreign journalists to report on the situation regarding starvation in Gaza?

They won't.

I wonder why. Could it be they don't want the truth to come out?

 

   That question get asked about once a day .

The forum gets rather repetitive when people ask the same question everyday and others answer the same question everyday .

   The  answer to the question is the same as yesterday and every other day that the question was asked/answered

hmmmm not all of them