If the cartel exists or not, who cares, nothing changes in this never ending fight against the havoc of drugs. 

 

1. Cartels are there because there are a whole gang of people out theire who snort, or smoke or inject this poison. 

 

2. Trying to enforce and fight against the drug dealers and cartels has shown it's flaws and powerlessness. 

 

3. Target the consumers. 

 

4. Start by imposing like Clinton did...start by imposing surprise non announced mandatory drug screen tests say on any parliament or government in a western country....not to forget the schools, train drivers, pilots, doctors, UN organisations, cops and so on...the positive results would shock the world. Of course, all those tested positive are sacked from their jobs or their political position or office. 

 

5. Then only could there be a real message sent out as that any governance is saying NO to drugs. 

24 minutes ago, SingAPorn said:

If the cartel exists or not, who cares, nothing changes in this never ending fight against the havoc of drugs. 

 

1. Cartels are there because there are a whole gang of people out theire who snort, or smoke or inject this poison. 

 

2. Trying to enforce and fight against the drug dealers and cartels has shown it's flaws and powerlessness. 

 

3. Target the consumers. 

 

4. Start by imposing like Clinton did...start by imposing surprise non announced mandatory drug screen tests say on any parliament or government in a western country....not to forget the schools, train drivers, pilots, doctors, UN organisations, cops and so on...the positive results would shock the world. Of course, all those tested positive are sacked from their jobs or their political position or office. 

 

5. Then only could there be a real message sent out as that any governance is saying NO to drugs. 

I guess we could try to create a police state, Orwe just decriminalize them and devote the money saved to helping people. Oddly enough, it seems that GLP-1 pharmaceuticals, the peptide weight loss drugs, also dampen the cravings for drugs and alcohol. So there's that. 

2 hours ago, Alan Zweibel said:

And if Venezuela is, in fact, a narco state,  what's going to stop it from remaining a narco state? How many boots on the ground is the Trump administration going to keep there? How long will it take to "purge the country of criminals" Do you believe that despite all the cash that cartels can shower on government officials, the alleged huge drug trade in Venezuela will be seriously subdued ?  How does that happen? 

Let's go by experience. Panama. General Noriega ran a similar operation. He was quickly removed, and the country was returned to  a functioning democracy, and Panama has not looked back since then. Venezuela is a wealthy country. One does not see that today because of the current kleptocracy theft of assets and the funding of "revolutionary causes". The poor go without because of it. The millions who have fled the country are often educated and honest people and can rebuild their nation.  Venezuela is a drug transit point because the military is part of it and its commanders' opulent lifestyle is funded by it. Once they are gone, the country will adjust itself because the people have the means to do so, just as they did in Panama.

1 hour ago, Alan Zweibel said:

I guess we could try to create a police state, Orwe just decriminalize them and devote the money saved to helping people. Oddly enough, it seems that GLP-1 pharmaceuticals, the peptide weight loss drugs, also dampen the cravings for drugs and alcohol. So there's that. 

 

Decriminalization, "safe injection sites" and all those wonderful solutions  have notdone anything to stop  the plague of  hardcore junkies.  Decriminalization is a separate issue and is a reasonable means of dealing with the non serious criminals like the teenagers who experiment or the adults with genuine addictions caused by real underlying medical issues. Unfortunately, western societies have taken the position to the extreme  and allowed a vocal group of "experts" normalize the crack addicts and vagrants who roam the streets of urban centers stealing, polluting, harassing and terrorizing people. The people who are supplying their drugs are vile profiteers exploiting the weak and should be treated accordingly.

 

All drugs have side effects and this includes the GLP-1 class of drugs. Please do not jump on the band wagon of off label use, because this is how we take a good product and turn it into a bad product. 

 

2 hours ago, Alan Zweibel said:

It doesn't have an organizational structure but it has members? How does that work? 

 

Once again, semantics.  It's entirely possible to be a member of a group that doesn't have an organizational structure,  We're all members of the human race and many of us are members of the middle class.  I am a member of the group of people who enjoy eating Thai food and reading mystery novels.  I also belong to the group of people who strongly support Israel, even though I have no formal affiliation to Israel or Zionism.

 

A group can be a tight or loose association of people who share a common characteristic.  For Cartel de los Soles, that common characteristic is they are members of the Venezuelan military  or government involved in drug trafficking.

 

2 hours ago, Alan Zweibel said:

 Is that like antifa, another something that doesn't have an organizational structure but has members?

 

Yes, that is a reasonable comparison.

 

2 hours ago, Alan Zweibel said:

And what is the solution to putting an end to this corruption?  .

 

An end to Maduro's reign.

 

2 hours ago, Alan Zweibel said:

 Does Trump plan to occupy the country? .

 

I doubt that's his plan at all.  Today Nobel Peace Prize laureate "María Corina Machado has published a “freedom manifesto” outlining her vision of a 'new era' for the country without its strongman Nicolás Maduro.

"The four-page document, dated November 9 but made public on Tuesday, lays out the democratic pillars she says all Venezuelans are entitled to, including the rights to vote, assemble and exercise free speech.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/18/americas/venezuela-maria-corina-machado-freedom-manifesto-latam-intl

She said she has a plan for the immediate aftermath of Maduro's fall that would meet the immediate needs of the Venezuelan people in terms of food, medicine and fuel.

"'We have our teams ready and plans in place for the first 100 hours and the first 100 days. It will be an orderly, peaceful and irreversible transition,' Machado insisted, "

https://voz.us/en/world/250829/28353/exclusive-interview-with-maria-corina-machado-the-trump-administration-is-pursuing-the-right-strategy-to-dismantle-the-cartel-soles.html

 

The people of Venezuela have everything to gain and nothing to lose from an end to Maduro's rule.

6 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

 

 

Once again, semantics.  It's entirely possible to be a member of a group that doesn't have an organizational structure,  We're all members of the human race and many of us are members of the middle class.  I am a member of the group of people who enjoy eating Thai food and reading mystery novels.  I also belong to the group of people who strongly support Israel, even though I have no formal affiliation to Israel or Zionism.

 

A group can be a tight or loose association of people who share a common characteristic.  For Cartel de los Soles, that common characteristic is they are members of the Venezuelan military  or government involved in drug trafficking.

 

 

Yes, that is a reasonable comparison.

 

 

An end to Maduro's reign.

 

 

I doubt that's his plan at all.  Today Nobel Peace Prize laureate "María Corina Machado has published a “freedom manifesto” outlining her vision of a 'new era' for the country without its strongman Nicolás Maduro.

"The four-page document, dated November 9 but made public on Tuesday, lays out the democratic pillars she says all Venezuelans are entitled to, including the rights to vote, assemble and exercise free speech.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/18/americas/venezuela-maria-corina-machado-freedom-manifesto-latam-intl

She said she has a plan for the immediate aftermath of Maduro's fall that would meet the immediate needs of the Venezuelan people in terms of food, medicine and fuel.

"'We have our teams ready and plans in place for the first 100 hours and the first 100 days. It will be an orderly, peaceful and irreversible transition,' Machado insisted, "

https://voz.us/en/world/250829/28353/exclusive-interview-with-maria-corina-machado-the-trump-administration-is-pursuing-the-right-strategy-to-dismantle-the-cartel-soles.html

 

The people of Venezuela have everything to gain and nothing to lose from an end to Maduro's rule.

We may all be members of the human race and some of us members of the middle class. But that's different from being members of something named that's not really a thing but is being pushed by the adminstration as though it was?

 

Like ending Saddam's reign?

 

I remember how the exiles from Iraq promised a new era of a liberalized Iraq. How did that turn out? Of course Machado is going to tell the US what it wants to hear. She may even believe it. But what is to stop the drug cartels from continuing to use Venezuela from continuing with trans-shipment of cocaine? They got lots of money.

7 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

Decriminalization, "safe injection sites" and all those wonderful solutions  have notdone anything to stop  the plague of  hardcore junkies.  Decriminalization is a separate issue and is a reasonable means of dealing with the non serious criminals like the teenagers who experiment or the adults with genuine addictions caused by real underlying medical issues. Unfortunately, western societies have taken the position to the extreme  and allowed a vocal group of "experts" normalize the crack addicts and vagrants who roam the streets of urban centers stealing, polluting, harassing and terrorizing people. The people who are supplying their drugs are vile profiteers exploiting the weak and should be treated accordingly.

 

All drugs have side effects and this includes the GLP-1 class of drugs. Please do not jump on the band wagon of off label use, because this is how we take a good product and turn it into a bad product. 

As long as there's huge amounts of money to be made there is no stopping it. Crack addicts and such still have to find the cash to pay for the drugs. There will be a lot less crime if it takes a lot less cash to support an addiction. The problem now is that if just one locale decriminalizes drugs, then that attracts addict from elsewhere. And while you cite the harms caused by decriminalization, they are as nothing compared to what the drug trade has done to entire nations. And your solution? Armed invasion. Magical thinking much?

49 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

And while you cite the harms caused by decriminalization, they are as nothing compared to what the drug trade has done to entire nations. And your solution? Armed invasion. Magical thinking much?

Have your masters in China decriminalize drugs and let us know how it works.

 

Meanwhile, boom, ooops, there goes another.

2 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Have your masters in China decriminalize drugs and let us know how it works.

 

Meanwhile, boom, ooops, there goes another.

Another, what....?   🤫

11 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Have your masters in China decriminalize drugs and let us know how it works.

 

Meanwhile, boom, ooops, there goes another.

Because China doesn't it, we shouldn't too? You've just outed yourself as a Socialist, comrade. For shame.

Troll post removed.

 

@Yagoda final warning, discuss the topic and not other posters.

On 11/19/2025 at 6:34 AM, Alan Zweibel said:

 Cartel de los Soles is not a literal organization, according to a range of specialists in Latin American criminal and narcotics issues, from think-tank analysts to former Drug Enforcement Administration officials.

It is instead a figure of speech in Venezuela, dating back to the 1990s, for Venezuelan military officials corrupted by drug money, they say. The term, which means “Cartel of the Suns,” is a mocking invocation of the suns Venezuelan generals wear to denote their rank, like American ones wear stars.

https://archive.ph/WHBvI

 

With any luck historians may soon be able to add this to other fake pretexts for war like Remember the Maine and The Gulf of Tonkin Incident. 

In a few years the USA might begin to bomb Thai ships 

2 hours ago, kiwikeith said:

In a few years the USA might begin to bomb Thai ships 

Trump will not be in control in a few years, the world order will get back to normal....

"Today, the US Navy blew up a drug vessel in international waters."

"Great. How did you discover they were carrying drugs?"

"Why don't you just believe me?"

"But surely you have evidence they were carrying drugs?"

"We don't need evidence. We are America."

"But America has a court system, doesn't it?"

"We didn't kill them within U.S. waters, so they don't get their day in court. We just kill 'em without asking questions."

10 hours ago, transam said:

Trump will not be in control in a few years, the world order will get back to normal....

Oh no, then we will be back to the claims of Lizard aliens and ZOG conspiracy claims. 

On 11/20/2025 at 12:27 AM, Patong2021 said:

Let's go by experience. Panama. General Noriega ran a similar operation. He was quickly removed, and the country was returned to  a functioning democracy, and Panama has not looked back since then. Venezuela is a wealthy country. One does not see that today because of the current kleptocracy theft of assets and the funding of "revolutionary causes". The poor go without because of it. The millions who have fled the country are often educated and honest people and can rebuild their nation.  Venezuela is a drug transit point because the military is part of it and its commanders' opulent lifestyle is funded by it. Once they are gone, the country will adjust itself because the people have the means to do so, just as they did in Panama.

 

On 11/20/2025 at 12:51 AM, Evil Penevil said:

 

 

Once again, semantics.  It's entirely possible to be a member of a group that doesn't have an organizational structure,  We're all members of the human race and many of us are members of the middle class.  I am a member of the group of people who enjoy eating Thai food and reading mystery novels.  I also belong to the group of people who strongly support Israel, even though I have no formal affiliation to Israel or Zionism.

 

A group can be a tight or loose association of people who share a common characteristic.  For Cartel de los Soles, that common characteristic is they are members of the Venezuelan military  or government involved in drug trafficking.

 

 

Yes, that is a reasonable comparison.

 

 

An end to Maduro's reign.

 

 

I doubt that's his plan at all.  Today Nobel Peace Prize laureate "María Corina Machado has published a “freedom manifesto” outlining her vision of a 'new era' for the country without its strongman Nicolás Maduro.

"The four-page document, dated November 9 but made public on Tuesday, lays out the democratic pillars she says all Venezuelans are entitled to, including the rights to vote, assemble and exercise free speech.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/18/americas/venezuela-maria-corina-machado-freedom-manifesto-latam-intl

She said she has a plan for the immediate aftermath of Maduro's fall that would meet the immediate needs of the Venezuelan people in terms of food, medicine and fuel.

"'We have our teams ready and plans in place for the first 100 hours and the first 100 days. It will be an orderly, peaceful and irreversible transition,' Machado insisted, "

https://voz.us/en/world/250829/28353/exclusive-interview-with-maria-corina-machado-the-trump-administration-is-pursuing-the-right-strategy-to-dismantle-the-cartel-soles.html

 

The people of Venezuela have everything to gain and nothing to lose from an end to Maduro's rule.

U.S. Ran a War Game on Ousting Maduro. Venezuela Fell Into Chaos.

As President Trump pressed during his first term to oust President Nicolás Maduro, U.S. officials ran a war game to assess what the Venezuelan strongman’s fall might unleash.

The results showed that chaos and violence were likely to erupt within Venezuela, as military units, rival political factions and even jungle-based guerrilla groups jockeyed for control of the oil-rich country.

Those unclassified findings, supported by other expert analysis, underscore the risk associated with Mr. Trump’s second-term push against Mr. Maduro.

https://archive.ph/6xjAp

2 hours ago, Alan Zweibel said:

 

U.S. Ran a War Game on Ousting Maduro. Venezuela Fell Into Chaos.

As President Trump pressed during his first term to oust President Nicolás Maduro, U.S. officials ran a war game to assess what the Venezuelan strongman’s fall might unleash.

The results showed that chaos and violence were likely to erupt within Venezuela, as military units, rival political factions and even jungle-based guerrilla groups jockeyed for control of the oil-rich country.

Those unclassified findings, supported by other expert analysis, underscore the risk associated with Mr. Trump’s second-term push against Mr. Maduro.

https://archive.ph/6xjAp

Ok, so there was perhaps a modeling of a scenario. So what? It is standard practice to consider possible outcomes. It is also what responsible military commanders do. The NY Times article refers to one scenario. There are usually multiple scenarios that are modeled. The modeling is meant to identify weaknesses and errors in a plan to allow for corrections or changes as necessary. You are making something out of nothing.   The US also models the impact of storms, of fires, of terrorist attacks, of catastrophic train derailments too.

Just now, Patong2021 said:

Ok, so there was perhaps a modeling of a scenario. So what? It is standard practice to consider possible outcomes. It is also what responsible military commanders do. The NY Times article refers to one scenario. There are usually multiple scenarios that are modeled. The modeling is meant to identify weaknesses and errors in a plan to allow for corrections or changes as necessary. You are making something out of nothing.   The US also models the impact of storms, of fires, of terrorist attacks, of catastrophic train derailments too.

But all means, produce one of the alternative models that the Pentagon created. Until then, their existence is just hypothetical.