3 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Is this your way of deflecting attention from the fact that Trump's tariffs aren't bringing manufacturing employment back to America? Because the point you're raising sure doesn't seem to have anything to do with the issue at hand.

 

Well, as I constantly criticize Trump and his blanket tariffs and have defended things such as Biden CHIPs program, I think you're about as wrong as could be. You're just seeking argument.

Just now, John Drake said:

 

Well, as I constantly criticize Trump and his blanket tariffs and have defended things such as Biden CHIPs program, I think you're about as wrong as could be. You're just seeking argument.

It doesn't change the fact that your comment was irrelevant.

 

Maybe I should keep a dossier on your comments?

Canada and China too. Both outsmarted the arrogant  goon. 

 

Trumps plan to make America great again has instead made Canada stronger, more independent, and more competitive than ever before.

 

While American companies are struggling with higher costs and disrupted supply chains, Canadian companies are accessing new markets, forming new partnerships, 
and building new capabilities that will serve them for generations. This is where the story takes an even more dramatic turn because what happened next proved 
that Canada's transformation wasn't just about economics, it was about something far more fundamental, it was about respect, dignity and the right of sovereign nations 
to determine their own destiny. 

 

When Trump realized that his tariff strategy have backfired spectacularly he did what he always did when faced with failure, he doubled down, instead of acknowledging 
that his approach had been counterproductive, he threatened even more aggressive measures, he talked about 75% tariffs, about complete trade cutoffs, about economic warfare
that would force Canada to its knees.

 

But this time something was different, this time Canada wasn't afraid, the reality is more devastating than anyone in Washington wants to admit 
while Trump celebrates his supposed tariff victories, the true cost of his economic warfare is becoming impossible to ignore. American families are paying the price quite literally as companies like Walmart, Amazon and Subaru have increased costs and passed them onto consumers.

 

But here's what makes this story truly remarkable, Canada isn't just weathering the storm anymore, they're thriving in spite of it. Mark Carney's strategic pivot away from American dependency 
has created something unprecedented, a blueprint for economic independence that other nations are now studying carefully, the quiet revolution that began with rejecting American steel, has evolved into a comprehensive realignment of global partnerships. The numbers tell the story better than any political speech could, Canada's defense spending is surging toward NATO's 2% target but with a crucial difference, instead of funneling 70 to 80% of that money into American defense contractors as they've done for decades, Canada is building domestic capacity. The defense procurement agency is centralizing decisions, prioritizing Canadian steel, Canadian aluminum, Superior Canadian lumber, and Canadian critical minerals. It's economic nationalism, without the chaos, and strategy without the shouting. 

 

Trump's threats perfectly encapsulates everything wrong with his approach, this isn't alliance building, it's extortion. Carney's response has been swift and decisive, Canada is exploring Swedish fighter jets, European Defense Partnerships, and technological independence. The message is clear, if America wants to treat allies like customers, those allies will shop elsewhere.

 

The transformation extends far beyond military procurement, as Canada's pivot to European markets has accelerated dramatically since Trump's latest tariff escalation. Trade delegations that once focused primarily on American partnerships are now establishing deep ties with London, Paris, Beijing and Berlin.

 

The psychological shift is just as important as the economic one, for the first time in generations Canadian leadership is openly questioning whether an American partnership is worth the constant uncertainty and humiliation.

 

What's most striking about Canada's approach is its discipline, there are no angry and undisciplined tweets, no juvenile public tantrums, no threats of retaliation, but instead there's methodical execution of a long-term strategy that slowly but steadily reduces dependence on an unreliable partner. Every canceled American contract, every new European partnership, every investment in domestic capacity represents another step away from the economic relationship that has defined North America for decades. 

 

And the ripple effects are already visible across other American allies. If Canada, America's most integrated partner can successfully diversify away from dependence on Washington what's stopping others from following the same path? European leaders are watching carefully as Canada demonstrates that there's life beyond American economic hegemony, the quiet Canadian Revolution is becoming a case study in strategic independence. Trump's tariff war was supposed to bring manufacturing back to America and force allies into submission, but instead it's accelerating the exact opposite outcome. American Supply chains are disrupted, costs are rising, and the most reliable partner in North America is quietly building an alternative future. 

 

The art of the deal has become the art of self-destruction, and the world is taking notes. Canada's trade war victory isn't measured in dramatic headlines or political theater, it's measured in steady progress toward economic sovereignty, and strengthen partnerships with reliable allies, and in the quiet confidence that comes from no longer needing to fear the next presidential tweet. As Trump continues his chaotic approach to international relations, Canada has chosen a different path, strategic, patient and ultimately more powerful than any tariff could ever be.

 

A new Chinese security vision and American retreat from global leadership. While America’s retreat has so far been largely a choice – spearheaded by President Donald Trump’s “America First” administration – it may well become irreversible. And if the Communist Party of China (CPC) has its way, the People’s Republic will emerge as the new global hegemon. China’s recently published white paper on national security, its first ever, offers a glimpse into the CPC’s plans. Reflecting President Xi Jinping’s “holistic national security concept,” the document articulates an expansive, integrated approach, encompassing political, economic, military, technological, cultural, and societal domains. And unlike previous defense-focused white papers, it establishes political security – specifically, the CPC’s leadership – as the foundation of national stability, essential to enable China to act as a stabilizing force in a turbulent world.

 

That turbulence, China asserts, can be blamed largely on Western powers – especially the US – which have fostered disorder through containment and interference. China has a point here: even America’s current withdrawal from global leadership has been conflicted and chaotic. This has provided a critical opening for China to position itself as a stable and certain actor in regional and global affairs, a champion of multilateralism, an investor in and defender of the Global South, and a just peacemaker.
This appears to matter little to the Trump administration, which seems convinced that national security depends not on global outreach, but on military deterrence, advances in cybersecurity, and economic protectionism, exemplified by high tariffs, efforts to secure critical-mineral supply chains, and limits on the export of advanced technology to China. Within Asia, this vision has materialized in “treaties of good-neighborliness and friendly cooperation” between China and nine countries, and in China’s promotion of greater regional security cooperation, including with the ASEAN countries. 

 

More broadly, China is touting Xi’s Global Security Initiative (GSI), which was launched in 2022 as an alternative to Western-led security frameworks that can support broad-based, “win-win” cooperation on “complex and intertwined security challenges.”

 

But as Trump’s America abandons that approach and alienates more of the world, China’s vision, focused on fortifying CPC control and building alternative frameworks for global engagement, has gained greater appeal.

29 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

There were also added millions more private sector jobs:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USPRIV

 

There were 175,000 more manufacturing jobs at the end of the Biden administration than there were just before the onset of the Covid pandemic

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/dec/13/joe-biden/fact-checking-joe-biden-on-manufacturing-jobs/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

 

Full-Time Employment Increased Under Biden, Contrary to Rick Scott’s Claim

 

Your own link shows that "the first three-quarters of those jobs represent a return to previous manufacturing employment levels, but history shows that is rare". Well events like Covid are pretty rare too. If you follow the trend pre 2020 you can see that, after Covid recovery by 2022, that trend just pretty much continued. Nothing special.

 

By the way, all those additions to public sector have some additional booster effects to private sector job openings too. Those tax guys like fast food as much as anybody else at the tough.

 

6 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Canada and China too. Both outsmarted the arrogant  goon. 

 

Trumps plan to make America great again has instead made Canada stronger, more independent, and more competitive than ever before.

 

While American companies are struggling with higher costs and disrupted supply chains, Canadian companies are accessing new markets, forming new partnerships, 
and building new capabilities that will serve them for generations. This is where the story takes an even more dramatic turn because what happened next proved 
that Canada's transformation wasn't just about economics, it was about something far more fundamental, it was about respect, dignity and the right of sovereign nations 
to determine their own destiny. 

 

When Trump realized that his tariff strategy have backfired spectacularly he did what he always did when faced with failure, he doubled down, instead of acknowledging 
that his approach had been counterproductive, he threatened even more aggressive measures, he talked about 75% tariffs, about complete trade cutoffs, about economic warfare
that would force Canada to its knees.

 

But this time something was different, this time Canada wasn't afraid, the reality is more devastating than anyone in Washington wants to admit 
while Trump celebrates his supposed tariff victories, the true cost of his economic warfare is becoming impossible to ignore. American families are paying the price quite literally as companies like Walmart, Amazon and Subaru have increased costs and passed them onto consumers.

 

But here's what makes this story truly remarkable, Canada isn't just weathering the storm anymore, they're thriving in spite of it. Mark Carney's strategic pivot away from American dependency 
has created something unprecedented, a blueprint for economic independence that other nations are now studying carefully, the quiet revolution that began with rejecting American steel, has evolved into a comprehensive realignment of global partnerships. The numbers tell the story better than any political speech could, Canada's defense spending is surging toward NATO's 2% target but with a crucial difference, instead of funneling 70 to 80% of that money into American defense contractors as they've done for decades, Canada is building domestic capacity. The defense procurement agency is centralizing decisions, prioritizing Canadian steel, Canadian aluminum, Superior Canadian lumber, and Canadian critical minerals. It's economic nationalism, without the chaos, and strategy without the shouting. 

 

Trump's threats perfectly encapsulates everything wrong with his approach, this isn't alliance building, it's extortion. Carney's response has been swift and decisive, Canada is exploring Swedish fighter jets, European Defense Partnerships, and technological independence. The message is clear, if America wants to treat allies like customers, those allies will shop elsewhere.

 

The transformation extends far beyond military procurement, as Canada's pivot to European markets has accelerated dramatically since Trump's latest tariff escalation. Trade delegations that once focused primarily on American partnerships are now establishing deep ties with London, Paris, Beijing and Berlin.

 

The psychological shift is just as important as the economic one, for the first time in generations Canadian leadership is openly questioning whether an American partnership is worth the constant uncertainty and humiliation.

 

What's most striking about Canada's approach is its discipline, there are no angry and undisciplined tweets, no juvenile public tantrums, no threats of retaliation, but instead there's methodical execution of a long-term strategy that slowly but steadily reduces dependence on an unreliable partner. Every canceled American contract, every new European partnership, every investment in domestic capacity represents another step away from the economic relationship that has defined North America for decades. 

 

And the ripple effects are already visible across other American allies. If Canada, America's most integrated partner can successfully diversify away from dependence on Washington what's stopping others from following the same path? European leaders are watching carefully as Canada demonstrates that there's life beyond American economic hegemony, the quiet Canadian Revolution is becoming a case study in strategic independence. Trump's tariff war was supposed to bring manufacturing back to America and force allies into submission, but instead it's accelerating the exact opposite outcome. American Supply chains are disrupted, costs are rising, and the most reliable partner in North America is quietly building an alternative future. 

 

The art of the deal has become the art of self-destruction, and the world is taking notes. Canada's trade war victory isn't measured in dramatic headlines or political theater, it's measured in steady progress toward economic sovereignty, and strengthen partnerships with reliable allies, and in the quiet confidence that comes from no longer needing to fear the next presidential tweet. As Trump continues his chaotic approach to international relations, Canada has chosen a different path, strategic, patient and ultimately more powerful than any tariff could ever be.

 

A new Chinese security vision and American retreat from global leadership. While America’s retreat has so far been largely a choice – spearheaded by President Donald Trump’s “America First” administration – it may well become irreversible. And if the Communist Party of China (CPC) has its way, the People’s Republic will emerge as the new global hegemon. China’s recently published white paper on national security, its first ever, offers a glimpse into the CPC’s plans. Reflecting President Xi Jinping’s “holistic national security concept,” the document articulates an expansive, integrated approach, encompassing political, economic, military, technological, cultural, and societal domains. And unlike previous defense-focused white papers, it establishes political security – specifically, the CPC’s leadership – as the foundation of national stability, essential to enable China to act as a stabilizing force in a turbulent world.

 

That turbulence, China asserts, can be blamed largely on Western powers – especially the US – which have fostered disorder through containment and interference. China has a point here: even America’s current withdrawal from global leadership has been conflicted and chaotic. This has provided a critical opening for China to position itself as a stable and certain actor in regional and global affairs, a champion of multilateralism, an investor in and defender of the Global South, and a just peacemaker.
This appears to matter little to the Trump administration, which seems convinced that national security depends not on global outreach, but on military deterrence, advances in cybersecurity, and economic protectionism, exemplified by high tariffs, efforts to secure critical-mineral supply chains, and limits on the export of advanced technology to China. Within Asia, this vision has materialized in “treaties of good-neighborliness and friendly cooperation” between China and nine countries, and in China’s promotion of greater regional security cooperation, including with the ASEAN countries. 

 

More broadly, China is touting Xi’s Global Security Initiative (GSI), which was launched in 2022 as an alternative to Western-led security frameworks that can support broad-based, “win-win” cooperation on “complex and intertwined security challenges.”

 

But as Trump’s America abandons that approach and alienates more of the world, China’s vision, focused on fortifying CPC control and building alternative frameworks for global engagement, has gained greater appeal.

 

Oh my. Contrary to you, I'm speechless. Seek help.

On 12/27/2025 at 1:30 PM, Alan Zweibel said:

The country’s exports to the U.S. have surged since President Trump imposed new duties on countries this year...

Producers seeking a foothold in the U.S. have said that Mexico still has all the inherent advantages it had before tariffs—proximity to the U.S., a low-cost manufacturing industry and a frayed but intact free-trade agreement.
Even with steep tariffs on autos, steel and aluminum bound for America, Mexican manufacturing exports to the U.S. rose almost 9% from January to November, compared with the first 11 months of 2024, according to Mexican government data.

https://archive.ph/NN6Tf#selection-925.0-929.235

 

All those new manufacturing jobs. So close and yet so far.

Great news!  If Mexico is now so prosperous they can take care of their own people and stop sending them to the border to enter the USA illegally for “a better life “.

 

”A better life” can be achieved now in Mexico.

 

Truly great news!

Just now, Rocky Sullivan said:

Great news!  If Mexico is now so prosperous they can take care of their own people and stop sending them to the border to enter the USA illegally for “a better life “.

 

”A better life” can be achieved now in Mexico.

 

Truly great news!

But not such great news for American workers who were promised those high paying manufacturing jobs.

48 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Wow. Just wow. A whole lot of disinformation packed into just a couple of paragraphs. 

 

How about  you wow us and tell us all why?

29 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

Your own link shows that "the first three-quarters of those jobs represent a return to previous manufacturing employment levels, but history shows that is rare". Well events like Covid are pretty rare too. If you follow the trend pre 2020 you can see that, after Covid recovery by 2022, that trend just pretty much continued. Nothing special.

 

By the way, all those additions to public sector have some additional booster effects to private sector job openings too. Those tax guys like fast food as much as anybody else at the tough.

 

So, are you saying that the trend that actually began during the Obama administration shouldn't redound to Biden's credit but should redound to Trump's?

And can you share with us the size of those additions to the public sector to show how significant they were?

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

Neither are you. You claimed Trump's manufacturing jobs decline then jump quickly hailing " Joe Biden’s robust record on the overall front". Biden’s government added millions of state and public sector jobs.

 

Is it only you who is allowed to go off topic and talk about (parasite) jobs??

 

 

 

I never wrote about "parasite jobs". That's @Harrisfan weird lines. They have nothing to do with tariffs.

 

Maybe you could also just try to stick to the facts? I know, it's hard for you guys... You too have nothing of substance, just empty rhetoric. 

 

Hint: Trumps Tariffs is the keyword

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Wow. Just wow. A whole lot of disinformation packed into just a couple of paragraphs. 

 

What is the disinformation. You made claims that are not true. What agreements did Carney sign with the EU or China that have changed anything? Carney can't change an economy overnight, anymore than Trump can. 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Alan Zweibel said:

But not such great news for American workers who were promised those high paying manufacturing jobs.

The Mexican factories were not offering high paying manufacturing jobs.

 

47 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

The Mexican factories were not offering high paying manufacturing jobs.

 

In other words, Trump's tariff hike didn't result in manufacturing jobs with high pay returning to the USA as Trump promised. Instead, the pay stayed low and the jobs stayed foreign.

9 hours ago, Schoggibueb said:

The loosers who call themselves "winners".

 

You're not very good with facts. Sad.

Losers

11 hours ago, Alan Zweibel said:

In other words, Trump's tariff hike didn't result in manufacturing jobs with high pay returning to the USA as Trump promised. Instead, the pay stayed low and the jobs stayed foreign.

 

As I have written a couple times, change will not occur immediately. Trump's policy is a systemic change. I don't know if it will work over time. I do know that it has resulted in the increase of work and  job security for US auto workers. it is why Trump is popular with the UAW and USW union members.  It's Canada that is losing manufacturing jobs and at risk, not Mexico.

46 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

As I have written a couple times, change will not occur immediately. Trump's policy is a systemic change. I don't know if it will work over time. I do know that it has resulted in the increase of work and  job security for US auto workers. it is why Trump is popular with the UAW and USW union members.  It's Canada that is losing manufacturing jobs and at risk, not Mexico.

Thanks for the irrelevant comments about work and job security. And making well paid Canadian workers the victims of Trump's trade policy just shows what a piece of B.S. his claims are about unfair competition.

Trump needs to get some hats ,made up from China , MAKE MEXICO GREAT AGAIN 

 

good job Donald 🤡

 

regards worgeordie

On 12/28/2025 at 8:28 AM, Alan Zweibel said:

Across 24 countries, a median of 34% of adults have a lot or some confidence in U.S. President Donald Trump to do the right thing regarding world affairs. Around six-in-ten (62%) have little or no confidence in Trump.

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2025/06/11/confidence-in-trump/

It's interesting that the country with the highest confidence in Trump is Nigeria!  Perhaps they could build a fake gold palace to lure him away from the US.

1 minute ago, Callmeishmael said:

It's interesting that the country with the highest confidence in Trump is Nigeria!  Perhaps they could build a fake gold palace to lure him away from the US.

I suspect some of these numbers may be out of date and not in a way that favors Trump.

18 hours ago, Alan Zweibel said:

So, are you saying that the trend that actually began during the Obama administration shouldn't redound to Biden's credit but should redound to Trump's?

And can you share with us the size of those additions to the public sector to show how significant they were?

 

I said and wrote that it was nothing special.

 

15 hours ago, Schoggibueb said:

I never wrote about "parasite jobs". That's @Harrisfan weird lines. They have nothing to do with tariffs.

 

Maybe you could also just try to stick to the facts? I know, it's hard for you guys... You too have nothing of substance, just empty rhetoric. 

 

Hint: Trumps Tariffs is the keyword

 

I know. That's why enclosed the word in brackets.

 

Hint: try reading and comprehending. 

 

 

10 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

I said and wrote that it was nothing special.

 

 

 

 

 

Then by the same token this is nothing special either:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USPRIV

3 hours ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Thanks for the irrelevant comments about work and job security. And making well paid Canadian workers the victims of Trump's trade policy just shows what a piece of B.S. his claims are about unfair competition.

The comments are not irrelevant. Jobs were protected in the USA. There has been a steady erosion of auto sector jobs in the USA That erosion has been stopped and is being reversed. The loss of auto sector jobs in bCanada is not Trump's concern. His job is to  do what's best for the USA. 

1 hour ago, Patong2021 said:

The comments are not irrelevant. Jobs were protected in the USA. There has been a steady erosion of auto sector jobs in the USA That erosion has been stopped and is being reversed. The loss of auto sector jobs in bCanada is not Trump's concern. His job is to  do what's best for the USA. 

So that means that the basis for Trump's tariffs is not, as he claims, that the competition isn't fair, but rather that there's any competition in whatever industry he chooses to protect. Sounds socialistic to me.

3 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

His job is to  do what's best for the USA. 

That would be his job.

Is he still working on it?

Because nothing got better for the working people.

 

Note: I don't count Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison, Larry Page, Sergey Brin or Warren Buffett as working people.

 

Filling the own pockets is not what is the best for a country.

 

Agreed?

2 hours ago, Schoggibueb said:

That would be his job.

Is he still working on it?

Because nothing got better for the working people.

 

Note: I don't count Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison, Larry Page, Sergey Brin or Warren Buffett as working people.

 

Filling the own pockets is not what is the best for a country.

 

Agreed?

 

The people you reference work for public companies. The shareholders who own the companies demand the high rate of return on their investments. Those investors are individual working people like steel workers or teamsters who have their pension funds invested with these companies. Other investors are the unions for large public service and government workers like teachers. Take it up with the shareholders. Deman that they increase the wages of their employees by 10% with a reduction in the ROI and see what happens.

 

Anyone who works is a working person, Warren Buffet works harder than  alot of low income working people. Even the loathesome  Elon Musk works long hours. Don't blame me for my earning a  high salary. I  take the stress and responsibilities that go with it. I also invested in my  skills. 

do you guys remember his claim about getting 400, 500, 600 and even 1,000 percent discount from the drugmakers/labs, guess what, he got hit with an increase instead of a reduction LOL

Exclusive-Drugmakers raise US prices on 350 medicines despite pressure from Trump

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/exclusive-drugmakers-raise-us-prices-034741666.html

On 12/29/2025 at 10:54 AM, Patong2021 said:

 

As I have written a couple times, change will not occur immediately. Trump's policy is a systemic change. I don't know if it will work over time. I do know that it has resulted in the increase of work and  job security for US auto workers. it is why Trump is popular with the UAW and USW union members.  It's Canada that is losing manufacturing jobs and at risk, not Mexico.

so much bragging about the job creation but the numbers are all the way down

Economists, however, are calling Trump’s bluff. Citing data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics

“The unemployment rate has been rising for both native-born and foreign-born adults,”

The not seasonally adjusted unemployment rate for U.S.-born workers rose from 3.9 percent in November 2024 to 4.3 percent in November 2025.

“If anything, the job market for U.S.-born workers is worse so far in 2025 than it was in preceding years,” senior economist Ben Zipperer

According to the Economic Policy Institute, Trump’s claims that his immigration policies are creating job market opportunities for U.S.-born workers are “false and based on a misreading of data from the household survey.”

Trump’s Boasts About Jobs for U.S.-Born Workers Hit by Humiliating Reality Check

Yahoo News

Trump’s Boasts About Jobs for U.S.-Born Workers Hit by Hu...

President Donald Trump’s bold claims that his policies delivered an unprecedented jobs boom for American-born workers are at odds with data showing a weaker market than under his predecessor. Trump, 7

21 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

so much bragging about the job creation but the numbers are all the way down

I do not claim that they are up. I do stand behind my view that it will take time to see the longterm impact. I do assert that US auto and steel workers have directly benefited from the Trump tariffs. because they have forced a realignment of US auto production. I do know that Production has been transferred to the USA from Canada. i don't know about Mexico and will accept the data as presented.