How to win a war.

- During WW2 allied forces realised that the Nazi-regime could not be eliminated by massive bombardment alone.

- Vietnam war: The most massive Air-Strikes in history. 500.000 US troops on the gound, but the South Vietnamese "boots on the ground" were never really sure why they should shoot at their northern countrymen.

And today? Once more, aireal supremacy should "win a war". A highly flawed and expensive project that has not worked in the past.

To "take out" the true rulers of Iran (the revolutiony guards) it would take "boots on the ground".

The closer the mid-term elections come, eventually Donald will declare "victory" and pull out, leaving an impoverished country behind, while the "revolutionary guuards" remain in power as before. (The real rulers of the coutry, never mind the Mullahs).

Them resuming their "nuclear ambitions" as before. A bit delayed maybe as the only result. 5 years at the most. After that, all over again, granted that the US electorate agrees and is willing to pay for it to "subdue" future Iranian "nuclear visions". An eternal 5 year cycle evolving. "Air power" alone not changing anything.

You dont understand modern airpower

30 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

You dont understand modern airpower

What's to "understand" about "modern airpower"? Please enlighten us.

PS: try not to deflect.

22 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

You dont understand modern airpower

The question is: Do you understand the fact that superior "air dominance" has never been a deciding factor in modern day warefare so far?

I've just seen on the news 5000 US marines are being sent. Hasn't America seen enough bodybags.

I hope the MAGA morons are proud of themselves because nobody else is nor will the families of the dead servicemen be.

13 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

What's to "understand" about "modern airpower"? Please enlighten us.

PS: try not to deflect.

Have you been watching the video? Do you read the publicly accessible reports? Do you understand how accurate they are?

11 minutes ago, swissie said:

Do you understand the fact that superior "air dominance" has never been a deciding factor in modern day warefare so far?

Well it was in Japan, but thats a digression. Remember the goals of this operation,

3 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Have you been watching the video? Do you read the publicly accessible reports? Do you understand how accurate they are?

Accurate? Blowing up a school and killing children was accurate?

8 minutes ago, Purdey said:

Accurate? Blowing up a school and killing children was accurate?

...............................and what about all the other missiles and bombs ?

I see a lot of people here on AN posting a lot of crap. The nearest they have ever come to war is their playstation or xbox.

War is not a game people die some horrifically peoples lives are destroyed not just the ones that die.

Some wars aren't even called wars and most people have long forgotten like Borneo Aden Oman but if you were there it would have sure felt like it.

Perhaps some people feel that if the enemy die it doesn't matter they don't count but people are pretty much the same the world over.

They have the same feelings aspirations and love for their family and friends no matter where they come from what language they speak what colour they are or what religion they believe in or don't believe.

The things that stay with me most are not just friends and colleges I lost but the grief on the faces of their families and the guilt I felt and still feel 60yrs later.

Guilt not because I could have done anything to prevent their death but because I lived and they didn't.

This latest war (because that is what it is no matter what it may be called) is and was totally unnecessary and should never have been started.

Those responsible should be put up against a wall and shot or hanged, but that will never happen only the poor sods who are sent to feed their perverse ego's will be the ones to suffer along with the thousand of innocent civilians who just want to live a normal peaceful life.

When will we ever learn to stop the madmen.

The US is expected to send a marine unit and more warships to the Middle East, two officials tell the BBC's US partner CBS news

Plans have not been confirmed but the unit, which can carry out amphibious raids, is typically made up of up to 5,000 Marines and sailors across several warships.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c4gqjyk0vx3t

24 minutes ago, bannork said:

Plans have not been confirmed but the unit, which can carry out amphibious raids, is typically made up of up to 5,000 Marines and sailors across several warships.

Kharg Island obviously.

5 hours ago, swissie said:

And today? Once more, aireal supremacy should "win a war". A highly flawed and expensive project that has not worked in the past.

Come now, surely you are not doubting the "putting a bomb in a pickle barrel" claim which has been around since the 1930s. An article of faith for those magnificent men in their flying machined (not just those of the various US air arms to be fair). Just because it didnt work in World War 2, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and now the pickle barrel in Iran is proving to be illusive, doesnt mean that bombing the living daylights out of a civilian population, with massive air delivered firepower is not an effective way of convincing them of the righteousness of your cause, nor a means of ensuring democracy and peace for generations to come!

Besides it makes for some great TV for the more atavistic!

Have faith...

5 hours ago, Yagoda said:

You dont understand modern airpower

And you understand war? Not typewriter wars, but real wars? Wars that involves human beings?

You can bomb a city, but you cant hold a city with bombs. You can hold a city, but you cant take over a country! A winner of a war controls infrastructure and logistics as a few key elements, and next is the people. Big Satan will always be Usa and Israel for Irani people. Good luck with that mentality.

Invasion wars is difficult if you do not win over the people straight away, almost a good blue print was Iraq, but still 50% is not happy, and also why Isis became a real problem.

If Irani falls, and you think Isis was bad, just wait and see, there is so many who are ready to pick up arms all over middle east, and restart what was once a new Islam state. Count the countries bombed and intervened by Uk, Usa and Israel the last 4 decades, and you will have an estimate for what will happen. Now all this countries have their people spread out all over the world, ready to finance and support, as well do a little terror here and there just to keep us busy.

8 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Kharg Island obviously.

Conspicuously, Kharg hasn't been targeted by Israel or the US yet because it's the spigot for oil and gas for south Asia and the Far East which arguably is the most vulnerable oil and gas market. Note how the surges in oil price occur when the Asian markets open.

Send in the Marines to protect it, keep the oil flowing, preserve market calm and keep important allies, and China, onside.

It falls easily to superior US military prowess, whereupon the mad mullahs, hiding "like rats" redirect their missiles to target Kharg Island, blowing up the spigot, causing a serious and sustained global oil price surge, including the US, turning Chinese abstention at the UN Security Council into objection, and killing a few of the US's "boots on the ground".

All the above while touting the miracles of "modern airpower" and air superiority.

Winning.

Queue the inevitable and witless "So you support Iran...got it" response from the forum's dullards.

27 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Conspicuously, Kharg hasn't been targeted by Israel or the US yet because it's the spigot for oil and gas for south Asia and the Far East which arguably is the most vulnerable oil and gas market. Note how the surges in oil price occur when the Asian markets open.

Send in the Marines to protect it, keep the oil flowing, preserve market calm and keep important allies, and China, onside.

It falls easily to superior US military prowess, whereupon the mad mullahs, hiding "like rats" redirect their missiles to target Kharg Island, blowing up the spigot, causing a serious and sustained global oil price surge, including the US, turning Chinese abstention at the UN Security Council into objection, and killing a few of the US's "boots on the ground".

All the above while touting the miracles of "modern airpower" and air superiority.

Winning.

Queue the inevitable and witless "So you support Iran...got it" response from the forum's dullards.

Consider why the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit is being sent from Japan, and not any of the other MEUs currently in the US. Its the only permanently forward deployed MEU. This is because Korea, Taiwan and the South China Sea are places where a crisis could literally erupt in days. The time to deploy a unit from the US takes weeks.

But now this unit is going to take a few weeks to redeploy to the Persian Gulf region (to use the official name, not the unofficial name enforced by Saudi Arabia). A crisis could still erupt in Korea, Taiwan and the South China Sea, and arguably the chances of that have risen over the last week.

If this was part of careful planning (Hegseth insists that the entire operation is meticulously and perfectly planned), one of the US based MEUs could have started the deployment weeks ago, and relocated their Tiltrotor Squadrons to Saudi Arabia. The MEU being sent consists onsists of a company-sized command element, a battalion landing team, a medium tiltrotor squadron and a combat logistics battalion. Its being reportedly redeployed for contingency reasons (evacuation). But it sounds like a reactionary deployment (unplanned) due to changing facts on the ground, because of the risk it exposes troops in the Pacific theatre to.

If there was an invasion of Kharg Island planned, then you could look at Operation Urgent Fury (the invasion of Grenada); a combined air-sea invasion, about 7-9000 marines against a force of maybe 7-800 paramilitaries from Cuba. The technology has changed a little (the Ospreys weren't around then),, but the approach would be similar; sieze the airfield on the Eastern side of the island, to secure against inevitable attempts by the Iranians to reinforce. The planning would also have to include counter-demolitions thinking, in case the Iranians use scorched earth tactics as Iraq tried in 1991 (setting the island ablaze, causing environmental devastation). The range of the Ospreys means they are right at the edge of their range if the unit deployed to the Gulf of Oman or the Red Sea. The battalion landing team have amphibious equipment, with range of a few kms. So, if the MEU is intended to support operations against Kharg, it will have to pass through Hormuz. And the War Department, while boasting it will keep close to its chest details of planning, have announced to the world, the deployment of this very distinctive mini armada. There is no element of surprise. The USS Tripoli will be target Numero Uno, and the Iranians know when its going to arrive, and be prepared.

Here's a Trumpian reasoning why Kharg Island. Its nothing to do with securing the objective of regime change. In fact it would be regime protection. In normal times, Kharg would support 90% of Iranian oil exports. Right its doing jack. Iranian oil isn't getting out of the Gulf, and it had few customers (one very large important one). A purpose would be to seize Kharg for the purposes of supervised export. Essentially America would run the island for Iran; maintain, repair the facilities (which are probably mostly American made anyhow). Revenue is escrowed or partially released under agreed conditions.

Why would Iran agree to such a thing, rather than launch unlimited and highly motivated waves of suicide bombers at it? Iran knows the US cannot maintain the tempo of air operations against Iran that it has been doing. A read of the headlines shows it will bankrupt the country, deplete military stocks. When Trump refers to unlimited bombs, its unlimited in the same way Russian munitions are unlimited; falling back on 1970s, 1960s, even 1950s stocks stashed in some American desert facility.

Under Trump, relationships with the outside world has become transactional. The US is no longer allied with other nations because of shared values, friendship. The US is no longer a friend of Europe or the UK. Maybe it never was. It maintains an alliance because it suits American interests. And similarly, it has no genuine friendship with Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States or indeed Israel (a country that spends less on defence, as a percentage of GDP, than the target set for NATO members.....). Iranian foreign policy is driven by a fear of the Imperialist; it has a recent history of meddling by the Great Powers. It is a neighbour to Arab nations, Arab nations who view their co-religionists with contempt because the Shia hold the heretical view that the Prophet designated his Son-in-law as his successor on earth (its a much deeper schism than Catholics versus Protestants). Throw into the mix a bit of Iranian nationalism, and Persian Empire stuff. This is why the Shah and then the Mullahs wanted the bomb ultimately. It was a big stick to support willy waving.

The deal the Americans could offer is to become allies of the Islamic Republic, and become a guarantor for Iranian independance. Ultimately, Trump's America doesn't care what goes on inside Iran. It never cared what went on inside Saudi Arabia. It doesn't really care what goes on inside Israel; all those Kibbutz's are basically communist colonies. Iran could be so much better for American business than the Arabs. Take away their oil, and the Gulf Arabs are nothing more than uneducated Bedu, as Lawrence found. Iran though is actually a proper country, with a proper economy. Yes, it earns a lot from oil, but there is so much going on there. There is a lot more that is in America's interest. In Venezuela, the Americans have effectively installed a vociferously Anti-American Vice-President as President. The Bolivar revolution continues, probably to the disappointment of the opposition (they ain't seeing power anytime soon).

When Trump talks about having a candidate in mind as leader of Iran, he's thinking about one of the Mullahs, not that joker Pretender, the Shah, who would last about 10 minutes after arrival before swinging from a handy JCB. And he wouldn't trust an Iranian electorate to vote for anyone; look what happened in Iraq, when you let foreign people have a say. It becomes unpredictable, and you end up with a government who isn't exactly grateful. US does play to type, with a foreign policy that happily supports dictatorships.

Precedence: Vietnam. Its still a communist country, with banners everywhere. The same mob who beat the Americans and threw their allies into re-education camps. Across America, you still see POW-MIA flags flying everywhere, because there are still Americans who think 80 year old downed pilots are still being held in some Vietnamese hellhole, and Chuck Norris/Rambo will rescue them. Saigon is still called Ho Chi Minh City, and there are museums showing captured American war trophies, and lurid illustrations of American capitalist war crimes. But US and Communist Vietnam have become best buds, with Vietnam enjoying preferential trading terms. There are people on this forum who probably served during the Vietnam war who are regularly making border runs to Vietnam.

On the other hand, Trumpm doesn't know his arse from his elbow, let alone what day of the week it is. The 31st MEU might might deploying to support the primary mission its trained for most recently, humanitarian relief, as the US anticipates things going turbo tits up, as the desalination plants are bombed, and cholera breaks out in the UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, and the US needs to get its people the <deleted> out of Dodge quick.

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Send in the Marines to protect it, keep the oil flowing, preserve market calm and keep important allies, and China, onside.

Wrong!

Just stop these illegal attacks!

1 minute ago, scottiejohn said:

Wrong!

Just stop these illegal attacks!

Give over. Nobody's been overly interested in, or worried about, the legalities of invasion and war since early 2014.

3 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Give over. Nobody's been overly interested in, or worried about, the legalities of invasion and war since early 2014.

Trump has never been interested in, or worried about, the legalities of invasion and war!

13 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Have you been watching the video? Do you read the publicly accessible reports? Do you understand how accurate they are?

correct, the reports are so damn accurate that back in June 2025 Trump claimed that Iran nuclear program was obliterated, yesterday that Hegseth claimed the Iran army/navy and so forth were 90% obliterated yet they keep kicking US axxx and blocking the Strait of Hormuz, not to mention Trump's latest claim about the attack on the Kharg island that also obliterated the army there, how can somebody obliterate what has been already obliterated, that's accurate reporting... LOL

12 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Kharg Island obviously.

how can it be there, Trump claimed it has been obliterated, if that's the case no need ground troupes there

13 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

16 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Give over. Nobody's been overly interested in, or worried about, the legalities of invasion and war since early 2014.

Trump has never been interested in, or worried about, the legalities of invasion and war!

And Trump wasn't POTUS in 2014 either.

Next...

2 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

And Trump wasn't POTUS in 2014 either.

Next...

I did NOT mention 2014!

I was posting about the warmonger Trump!

20 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

correct, the reports are so damn accurate that back in June 2025 Trump claimed that Iran nuclear program was obliterated, yesterday that Hegseth claimed the Iran army/navy and so forth were 90% obliterated yet they keep kicking US axxx and blocking the Strait of Hormuz, not to mention Trump's latest claim about the attack on the Kharg island that also obliterated the army there, how can somebody obliterate what has been already obliterated, that's accurate reporting... LOL

Which is why we can't believe everything we hear from any side, as they have their reasons for exaggeration. Only if someone's actually there would we know what's going on. I would think if Iran had any Navy or Air Force we would surely hear about them kicking anyone's ass. Blocking the Strait is a stupid idea on any side, as it makes all countries a lot of money in trade, and no matter how fast this war lasts, the end result should be trade with Iran and other countries, or we all lose.

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

how can it be there, Trump claimed it has been obliterated, if that's the case no need ground troupes there

Duh. The oil facilities

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

yet they keep kicking US axxx

Tell us how our "asses" are being kicked.

The best way to win a war is never to enter in war....Sun Tzu could have said this...

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

It falls easily to superior US military prowess, whereupon the mad mullahs, hiding "like rats" redirect their missiles to target Kharg Island,

What missiles LOL

43 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Which is why we can't believe everything we hear from any side, as they have their reasons for exaggeration

Watch the videos

Just now, Yagoda said:

What missiles LOL

Watch the videos

Videos, news casts and word of mouth can be either lies or the truth, or a combination of both, so the only way is either actually being there, knowing someone you trust is, or seeing the truth eventually come out on all networks without bias.

9 hours ago, Hummin said:

ount the countries bombed and intervened by Uk, Usa and Israel the last 4 decades, and you will have an estimate for what will happen.

Go back further LOL

2 hours ago, Roadsternut said:

Consider why the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit is being sent from Japan, and not any of the other MEUs currently in the US. Its the only permanently forward deployed MEU. This is because Korea, Taiwan and the South China Sea are places where a crisis could literally erupt in days. The time to deploy a unit from the US takes weeks.

But now this unit is going to take a few weeks to redeploy to the Persian Gulf region (to use the official name, not the unofficial name enforced by Saudi Arabia). A crisis could still erupt in Korea, Taiwan and the South China Sea, and arguably the chances of that have risen over the last week.

If this was part of careful planning (Hegseth insists that the entire operation is meticulously and perfectly planned), one of the US based MEUs could have started the deployment weeks ago, and relocated their Tiltrotor Squadrons to Saudi Arabia. The MEU being sent consists onsists of a company-sized command element, a battalion landing team, a medium tiltrotor squadron and a combat logistics battalion. Its being reportedly redeployed for contingency reasons (evacuation). But it sounds like a reactionary deployment (unplanned) due to changing facts on the ground, because of the risk it exposes troops in the Pacific theatre to.

If there was an invasion of Kharg Island planned, then you could look at Operation Urgent Fury (the invasion of Grenada); a combined air-sea invasion, about 7-9000 marines against a force of maybe 7-800 paramilitaries from Cuba. The technology has changed a little (the Ospreys weren't around then),, but the approach would be similar; sieze the airfield on the Eastern side of the island, to secure against inevitable attempts by the Iranians to reinforce. The planning would also have to include counter-demolitions thinking, in case the Iranians use scorched earth tactics as Iraq tried in 1991 (setting the island ablaze, causing environmental devastation). The range of the Ospreys means they are right at the edge of their range if the unit deployed to the Gulf of Oman or the Red Sea. The battalion landing team have amphibious equipment, with range of a few kms. So, if the MEU is intended to support operations against Kharg, it will have to pass through Hormuz. And the War Department, while boasting it will keep close to its chest details of planning, have announced to the world, the deployment of this very distinctive mini armada. There is no element of surprise. The USS Tripoli will be target Numero Uno, and the Iranians know when its going to arrive, and be prepared.

Here's a Trumpian reasoning why Kharg Island. Its nothing to do with securing the objective of regime change. In fact it would be regime protection. In normal times, Kharg would support 90% of Iranian oil exports. Right its doing jack. Iranian oil isn't getting out of the Gulf, and it had few customers (one very large important one). A purpose would be to seize Kharg for the purposes of supervised export. Essentially America would run the island for Iran; maintain, repair the facilities (which are probably mostly American made anyhow). Revenue is escrowed or partially released under agreed conditions.

Why would Iran agree to such a thing, rather than launch unlimited and highly motivated waves of suicide bombers at it? Iran knows the US cannot maintain the tempo of air operations against Iran that it has been doing. A read of the headlines shows it will bankrupt the country, deplete military stocks. When Trump refers to unlimited bombs, its unlimited in the same way Russian munitions are unlimited; falling back on 1970s, 1960s, even 1950s stocks stashed in some American desert facility.

Under Trump, relationships with the outside world has become transactional. The US is no longer allied with other nations because of shared values, friendship. The US is no longer a friend of Europe or the UK. Maybe it never was. It maintains an alliance because it suits American interests. And similarly, it has no genuine friendship with Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States or indeed Israel (a country that spends less on defence, as a percentage of GDP, than the target set for NATO members.....). Iranian foreign policy is driven by a fear of the Imperialist; it has a recent history of meddling by the Great Powers. It is a neighbour to Arab nations, Arab nations who view their co-religionists with contempt because the Shia hold the heretical view that the Prophet designated his Son-in-law as his successor on earth (its a much deeper schism than Catholics versus Protestants). Throw into the mix a bit of Iranian nationalism, and Persian Empire stuff. This is why the Shah and then the Mullahs wanted the bomb ultimately. It was a big stick to support willy waving.

The deal the Americans could offer is to become allies of the Islamic Republic, and become a guarantor for Iranian independance. Ultimately, Trump's America doesn't care what goes on inside Iran. It never cared what went on inside Saudi Arabia. It doesn't really care what goes on inside Israel; all those Kibbutz's are basically communist colonies. Iran could be so much better for American business than the Arabs. Take away their oil, and the Gulf Arabs are nothing more than uneducated Bedu, as Lawrence found. Iran though is actually a proper country, with a proper economy. Yes, it earns a lot from oil, but there is so much going on there. There is a lot more that is in America's interest. In Venezuela, the Americans have effectively installed a vociferously Anti-American Vice-President as President. The Bolivar revolution continues, probably to the disappointment of the opposition (they ain't seeing power anytime soon).

When Trump talks about having a candidate in mind as leader of Iran, he's thinking about one of the Mullahs, not that joker Pretender, the Shah, who would last about 10 minutes after arrival before swinging from a handy JCB. And he wouldn't trust an Iranian electorate to vote for anyone; look what happened in Iraq, when you let foreign people have a say. It becomes unpredictable, and you end up with a government who isn't exactly grateful. US does play to type, with a foreign policy that happily supports dictatorships.

Precedence: Vietnam. Its still a communist country, with banners everywhere. The same mob who beat the Americans and threw their allies into re-education camps. Across America, you still see POW-MIA flags flying everywhere, because there are still Americans who think 80 year old downed pilots are still being held in some Vietnamese hellhole, and Chuck Norris/Rambo will rescue them. Saigon is still called Ho Chi Minh City, and there are museums showing captured American war trophies, and lurid illustrations of American capitalist war crimes. But US and Communist Vietnam have become best buds, with Vietnam enjoying preferential trading terms. There are people on this forum who probably served during the Vietnam war who are regularly making border runs to Vietnam.

On the other hand, Trumpm doesn't know his arse from his elbow, let alone what day of the week it is. The 31st MEU might might deploying to support the primary mission its trained for most recently, humanitarian relief, as the US anticipates things going turbo tits up, as the desalination plants are bombed, and cholera breaks out in the UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, and the US needs to get its people the <deleted> out of Dodge quick.

Nice scenario but the Iranians have nothing left other than pin pricks