People often say religion exists to give answers to the big questions. Who are we, where did we come from, and why are we here. Others argue it came before those questions were even formed, as simply a way to control early societies through fear, long before modern systems of power and control over mass populations existed.

Either way, it is hard to ignore that religion still seems to have the strongest pull on those who are less educated, who struggle with critical thinking, or who simply want clear answers rather than uncertainty. For some, it seem to fill the void of things they cannot grasp intellectually like science, philosophy, and logic.

I think belief though is still a personal choice. Some people need something they can believe in, even though they can't see, measure, or prove it. And that's fine. Personally, I have never found it a convincing concept, but clearly many do. It gives hundreds of millions a framework, a sense of purpose, and maybe more importantly, hope.

At the same time, it is difficult not to notice how often religion is tied to power. It still seems to be used, directly or indirectly, to guide behaviour, shape thinking, and in some cases control large groups of people. You see it not just in poorer or less developed places, but also in major Western countries like the United States, where it still holds significant influence and control over large swaths of the country.

There is also the question of who is drawn to it. It often appears that those with fewer resources fall into religion more heavily, perhaps because it offers structure, or the notion that something better lies ahead. That is understandable, but it also raises questions about whether that hope is genuine, or sometimes simply convenient for others who benefit from it.

In many Western countries, interest in religion seems to be fading, especially among the more educated and affluent. In large parts of the East, it remains strong, although much of it can blur into superstition, ritual, and tradition rather than anything deeply spiritual. Then again, the same could be said of many Western religions as well.

So it leaves a big question. Has religion become something that mainly appeals to those who lack intellectual depth, who are looking for certainty and belief over logic, or merely answers over understanding.

Or is it simply that different people are looking for different things. I guess it will always remain a difficult question to ever clearly answer.

It's for intellectually lazy people.

But so is atheism -- nothing exists.

And then just go back to watching sports and drinking beer.

See if you can crack the code.

What are the upper and lower bounds for someone to be religious?

Got no need for religion. Just ladyboy porn and AN.

P.S. Posting for a friend named Rocky Harris.

After about the age of 12, most people begin to see religion is just a fairy tale. Perhaps thousands of years ago, long before science "stole" most of anybody's deity's powers, people accepted religion, rather than realize everything is random, or at least appears random if one does not know the laws of nature.

There is a view that religion has been "selected into the species" in a Darwinian sense, because belief in some controlling entity, with whom deals can be made, relieves stress, and stress is harmful. Those under less stress are more likely to survive, and if they survive, they are more likely to propagate.

Some people try to argue that humans need religion is order to be moral. That is silly, since it is civilization that leads to morality, as people are less likely to do bad things to others if others can do bad things to them. It isn't as if Moses came down from Mt Sinai with a couple stone tablets, called everyone around, and said, "Bad news, guys; no more raping and killing and stealing. It's against the rules."

Most societies invented deities. Some have a million or more, such as Hinduism. Others boil it down to just one. All that is based on preference, not proof. Some people need a million deities, so that if one doesn't answer a prayer, try a second or third or bazillionth one. Others want one only, because that makes it easier to focus. Not so surprisingly, all deities have very human qualities, some of which would be frowned upon if a non-deity had them. Deities seem to need continual praise and thanks, despite theoretically being as far above a human as humans are to bacteria. I doubt many humans expect bacteria to worship them or say thanks for everything.

There is also the question of why now? This current iteration of our part of the Universe is 13.8 billion years old. Deities are said to have always existed. What the heck were these deities doing from the beginning of time until 13.8 billion years ago? Did they get bored? Did they say, "I'm going to create some bacteria, in the hope it tells me continually how great I am and how thankful it is for everything I throw at it".

Many people need to believe someone or something is in charge. For the same reason humans accept monarchs or dictators, they invent gods. Randomness is disquieting. On the other hand, there is always the possibility of making a deal with someone or something in charge, even if the one in charge is a miscreant. There are no deals with randomness.

Another spurious argument is that since the Universe exists, "something" had to create it, as "how can something come from nothing?" That is like the Flat Earth argument: The Earth must be flat; otherwise we'd all fall off, as is said by those who could never understand the concept of gravity. Over the last 20 years, theoretical and particle physicists have shown that matter regularly comes into and out of existence, so "something" can come from "nothing". That concept is as difficult to understand as gravity must have been long before Newton.

Religion is big business.

8 minutes ago, Wingate said:

After about the age of 12, most people begin to see religion is just a fairy tale. Perhaps thousands of years ago, long before science "stole" most of anybody's deity's powers, people accepted religion, rather than realize everything is random, or at least appears random if one does not know the laws of nature.

There is a view that religion has been "selected into the species" in a Darwinian sense, because belief in some controlling entity, with whom deals can be made, relieves stress, and stress is harmful. Those under less stress are more likely to survive, and if they survive, they are more likely to propagate.

Some people try to argue that humans need religion is order to be moral. That is silly, since it is civilization that leads to morality, as people are less likely to do bad things to others if others can do bad things to them. It isn't as if Moses came down from Mt Sinai with a couple stone tablets, called everyone around, and said, "Bad news, guys; no more raping and killing and stealing. It's against the rules."

Most societies invented deities. Some have a million or more, such as Hinduism. Others boil it down to just one. All that is based on preference, not proof. Some people need a million deities, so that if one doesn't answer a prayer, try a second or third or bazillionth one. Others want one only, because that makes it easier to focus. Not so surprisingly, all deities have very human qualities, some of which would be frowned upon if a non-deity had them. Deities seem to need continual praise and thanks, despite theoretically being as far above a human as humans are to bacteria. I doubt many humans expect bacteria to worship them or say thanks for everything.

There is also the question of why now? This current iteration of our part of the Universe is 13.8 billion years old. Deities are said to have always existed. What the heck were these deities doing from the beginning of time until 13.8 billion years ago? Did they get bored? Did they say, "I'm going to create some bacteria, in the hope it tells me continually how great I am and how thankful it is for everything I throw at it".

Many people need to believe someone or something is in charge. For the same reason humans accept monarchs or dictators, they invent gods. Randomness is disquieting. On the other hand, there is always the possibility of making a deal with someone or something in charge, even if the one in charge is a miscreant. There are no deals with randomness.

Another spurious argument is that since the Universe exists, "something" had to create it, as "how can something come from nothing?" That is like the Flat Earth argument: The Earth must be flat; otherwise we'd all fall off, as is said by those who could never understand the concept of gravity. Over the last 20 years, theoretical and particle physicists have shown that matter regularly comes into and out of existence, so "something" can come from "nothing". That concept is as difficult to understand as gravity must have been long before Newton.

"everything is random, or at least appears random if one does not know the laws of nature."

There is an interesting (terrifying) school of thought that everything was set in motion by conditions at the beginning of the universe and like billiard balls colliding everything since then has been predetermined actions and reactions.

Free choice and free will are illusions, everything we say or do is a result of physics and chemistry and the initial conditions of the universe.

2 hours ago, Kyoto Kyle said:

Either way, it is hard to ignore that religion still seems to have the strongest pull on those who are less educated, who struggle with critical thinking, or who simply want clear answers rather than uncertainty. For some, it seem to fill the void of things they cannot grasp intellectually like science, philosophy, and logic.

Given the fact that this screed is nothing but your own rather dim-witted opinion which is not backed by a scintilla of hard evidence, you pretty well have shot down your own flawed premise. Nice try though.

39 minutes ago, koolkarl said:

Religion is big business.

It's all about the $$$'s.

What is interesting currently is the growth of Catholicism, in many 'Eastern' countries as well as 'The West' - China, India, Indonesia, Middle East (Moslems! some of them royals), UK (abandoning the nearly-defunct CofE), France (formerly proud of its republican scepticism but now showing signs of a return to Mother Church) ...

In human history things come and go. Then come and go again ... Fun to watch.

13 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

What is interesting currently is the growth of Catholicism, in many 'Eastern' countries as well as 'The West' - China, India, Indonesia, Middle East (Moslems! some of them royals), UK (abandoning the nearly-defunct CofE), France (formerly proud of its republican scepticism but now showing signs of a return to Mother Church) ...

In human history things come and go. Then come and go again ... Fun to watch.

In the United States, Eastern Orthodoxy (including Greek and Russian jurisdictions) has experienced a notable increase in converts and parish vitality in many congregations since around 2020, with the influx disproportionately involving younger adults—particularly men from Gen Z and Millennial cohorts.

The smart money says that there's no downside to believing (even if you're wrong), but a huge downside if you don't believe, and you're wrong.

Personally, I think the fear of retribution in the afterlife is what allows western society to thrive. Otherwise, it would be a free-for-all of thievery and debauchery.

I was raised as a Catholic and sent to Catholic schools, I can remember at age 6 being taught catechism and thinking this is bullsh*t. As I grew older and read more, especially science, everything just confirmed my earlier conclusion. Today I think all religions are evil. None are the word of God, the whole lot were made up by various people to control other people and gather power and wealth. I think to believe in a big man in the sky and put all your trust in the big invisible man's hands is the ultimate in stupidity and laziness.

"Cold-hearted orb that rules the night, removes the colors from our sight. Red is gray and yellow, white, but we decide which is right, and what is an illusion." The Moody Blues.

We can see the light from galaxies that existed millions of years ago, long before our own Sun came into being and will be there when it burns out. In the scheme of things, it seems we are pretty much nothing. But here I am, wondering if even that knowledge is an illusion.

12 minutes ago, impulse said:

The smart money says that there's no downside to believing (even if you're wrong), but a huge downside if you don't believe, and you're wrong.

Personally, I think the fear of retribution in the afterlife is what allows western society to thrive. Otherwise, it would be a free-for-all of thievery and debauchery.

What complete and utter rubbish. So not believing in something for which there is zero evidence makes a person a thief and a rapist does it. Of course the obvious comparison to what you suggest is the Catholic church. Plenty of taking from the poor and kiddie fiddling going on in that particular version of fearing retribution. Wait! Sorry. A good old confession and a Hail Mary and all is forgiven.

I'd believe the low IQ thingy, if 2 of my brothers weren't Christian warriors, and I consider them both, very intelligent.

Religion does seem to control the masses of ignorant people, who believe anything they are told, without the knowledge to dispute. Does seem as the world becomes more educated, less are falling for the farce of religions.

2 hours ago, save the frogs said:

It's for intellectually lazy people.

But so is atheism -- nothing exists.

And then just go back to watching sports and drinking beer.

See if you can crack the code.

I fail to see the logic in stating being atheist is lazy.

Once you use your intellectual skills to know something doesn't exist, do you expect the intellectual to spend more time on contemplating it? Being atheist doesn't leave you with nothing to think about. There are a million other aspects to life and the universe to contemplate without wasting resources on fairytales!

If I asked here if the country of Mongolia exists, most would say "yes" even though they have never been there or met a Mongolian. They are sure of their belief because they have "faith" in some "higher power".

20 minutes ago, bunnydrops said:

If I asked here if the country of Mongolia exists, most would say "yes" even though they have never been there or met a Mongolian. They are sure of their belief because they have "faith" in some "higher power".

Fascinating.

One question: WTH is your point?

55 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

What complete and utter rubbish. So not believing in something for which there is zero evidence makes a person a thief and a rapist does it. Of course the obvious comparison to what you suggest is the Catholic church. Plenty of taking from the poor and kiddie fiddling going on in that particular version of fearing retribution. Wait! Sorry. A good old confession and a Hail Mary and all is forgiven.

And tragically the fastest growing faith in Africa.

41 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

wasting resources on fairytales!

just mocking religion is not enough

contemplating on how we got here is one of the most important things to think about ...

59 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

What complete and utter rubbish. So not believing in something for which there is zero evidence makes a person a thief and a rapist does it. Of course the obvious comparison to what you suggest is the Catholic church. Plenty of taking from the poor and kiddie fiddling going on in that particular version of fearing retribution. Wait! Sorry. A good old confession and a Hail Mary and all is forgiven.

But here's the deal...

If I'm wrong, I don't lose anything. I just live a life based on principles, as best I can. There's no downside. (Unless South Park is correct and Mormon is the only true religion). Then, I'm worm food.

If you're wrong, you're hooped... for eternity. That's a loooong time.

8 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

just mocking religion is not enough

contemplating on how we got here is one of the most important things to think about ...

That is religion?🤔

Most realize we are simply here. We take up space and use up resources.

4 hours ago, Kyoto Kyle said:

People often say religion exists to give answers to the big questions. Who are we, where did we come from, and why are we here. Others argue it came before those questions were even formed, as simply a way to control early societies through fear, long before modern systems of power and control over mass populations existed.

Either way, it is hard to ignore that religion still seems to have the strongest pull on those who are less educated, who struggle with critical thinking, or who simply want clear answers rather than uncertainty. For some, it seem to fill the void of things they cannot grasp intellectually like science, philosophy, and logic.

I think belief though is still a personal choice. Some people need something they can believe in, even though they can't see, measure, or prove it. And that's fine. Personally, I have never found it a convincing concept, but clearly many do. It gives hundreds of millions a framework, a sense of purpose, and maybe more importantly, hope.

At the same time, it is difficult not to notice how often religion is tied to power. It still seems to be used, directly or indirectly, to guide behaviour, shape thinking, and in some cases control large groups of people. You see it not just in poorer or less developed places, but also in major Western countries like the United States, where it still holds significant influence and control over large swaths of the country.

There is also the question of who is drawn to it. It often appears that those with fewer resources fall into religion more heavily, perhaps because it offers structure, or the notion that something better lies ahead. That is understandable, but it also raises questions about whether that hope is genuine, or sometimes simply convenient for others who benefit from it.

In many Western countries, interest in religion seems to be fading, especially among the more educated and affluent. In large parts of the East, it remains strong, although much of it can blur into superstition, ritual, and tradition rather than anything deeply spiritual. Then again, the same could be said of many Western religions as well.

So it leaves a big question. Has religion become something that mainly appeals to those who lack intellectual depth, who are looking for certainty and belief over logic, or merely answers over understanding.

Or is it simply that different people are looking for different things. I guess it will always remain a difficult question to ever clearly answer.

Religion is a multi‑purpose human invention:

• It gives meaning

• It creates community

• It provides moral rules

• It offers comfort

• It connects people to something larger

• It organizes societies

{AI}

19 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Most realize we are simply here. We take up space and use up resources.

so you can't compete with the bible then

most people want "something" and you got nothing

2 hours ago, connda said:

Given the fact that this screed is nothing but your own rather dim-witted opinion which is not backed by a scintilla of hard evidence, you pretty well have shot down your own flawed premise. Nice try though.

So you haven't bothered to look for the "hard evidence" yourself???

Nope ,just told someone else there's no hard evidence mate .. nah there isn't eh mate ..like a inefficient detective on a case ;

How about you look into the prison system and you will see Islam is the fastest growing religion because it provides structure and routine

Oh but there's no "hard evidence"..oh please leave the whirlwind romances for another generation Poppy

2 hours ago, mfd101 said:

What is interesting currently is the growth of Catholicism, in many 'Eastern' countries as well as 'The West'

Amazing how many people can be convinced that a wafer is literally a living body.

16 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

so you can't compete with the bible then

most people want "something" and you got nothing

Well I suppose most people can't accept that we are just here. That's why they invented a man who lives in the clouds or wherever. In which case the OP is correct.

Most live around 75 years and cannot really comprehend 4 billion years. But yes it is a wonder that we are here at all.

18 minutes ago, D Peter said:

Religion is a multi‑purpose human invention:

• It gives meaning

• It creates community

• It provides moral rules

• It offers comfort

• It connects people to something larger

• It organizes societies

{AI}

I do however agree with the last 5 points in the above. But again there is no meaning to life as a broader concept . We are simply here. My wife prays to someone or something but she is Buddhist and has been here before? Her meaning in life is too look after two Chihuahuas. And yes she has a community of people who have also been here before

Churches or Temples? Births and deaths. Well someone has to do it.

How did the planet form? OK that satisfies some people's curiosity and then two single cell organisms bumped into one another and went "Hey we are better off together".

It seems like organized religion is aimed at the poor and hopeless. I recall hearing this often "this life is miserable and hopeless but my reward is waiting for me in heaven". I met a woman once who was living a hopeless and miserable life(poor, uneducated and had a long list of low paying dead end jobs). She told me "I found a new church and now I have hope for better things to come when I go to heaven."

49 minutes ago, D Peter said:

Religion is a multi‑purpose human invention:

• It gives meaning

• It creates community

• It provides moral rules

• It offers comfort

• It connects people to something larger

• It organizes societies

{AI}

and it threatens an eternity of torture if you don't comply and believe in the unbelievable.