On 4/14/2026 at 4:00 AM, Old Croc said:

It's for intellectually lazy people.

But so is atheism -- nothing exists.

And then just go back to watching sports and drinking beer.

See if you can crack the code.

I fail to see the logic in stating being atheist is lazy.

Once you use your intellectual skills to know something doesn't exist, do you expect the intellectual to spend more time on contemplating it? Being atheist doesn't leave you with nothing to think about. There are a million other aspects to life and the universe to contemplate without wasting resources on fairytales!

Atheism, like religion, is a belief system, in that its followers work hard to persuade others that "nothing exists."

Agnosticism OTOH, merely states that we don't know, and, certainly in my case, don't bloody care! It's about as relevant as Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny! 😉

The day someone, somewhere proves to me scientifically that any gods or other deities actually exist or have ever existed, I shall take some interest.

Until then religion is either a massive conspiracy theory or just "mumbo-jumbo" (And I'm neither biased nor bigoted - I include ALL religions in that summation.)

A lovely quote from Peaky Blinders which sums it up for me..."All religion is a foolish answer to a foolish question"

3 hours ago, wombat said:

Or alternatively it can be for high IQ people who know they can manipulate the majority of low IQ people who need to believe in the sky god.... I mean realistically how else could the Catholic Church, the purveyors of paedophilia get away with it for so long?

You forget how powerful personal conviction and personal experience can be when it comes to religion and belief. Even wealthy and intelligent people are not beyond that pull. Some do good out of gratitude for their fortune, while others may be driven by fear — fear of punishment, fear of stepping outside God’s terms, or the need to feel morally covered, as if collecting karma points. Belief systems are shaped by far deeper psychological forces than a merely pragmatic reading can explain.

Family ties, tribal instinct, and the need to belong are powerful things. Many people in Thailand may distance themselves from their original family or background, and in that sense they may seem like a different breed. But when real hardship comes, it is often striking how many of those who dismiss religion or belief systems begin to move back toward their roots.

Can't one believe in a higher being without being a true believer of a certain religion.

Sociologists have in the past called “ religion “ a form of Social Control.

And if you look back at the British Empire, it was used in that way. African people who were enslaved had their own culture, language and beliefs. But they frightened their rulers who forced them into ‘conversion’. Then the Church schools grew and everyone was seduced by free education.

Ironically, as the Cristian movement grew in the UK, they were very instrumental in the abolition of slavery!

Then it was Psychiatry as a form of Social Control, with the Asylums etc.

Now it’s the modern day alcohol industry that controls people’s lives. Addiction to alcohol similar to addiction to religion is probably worse if you look at the fact that it cost health care billions around the world. Many deny that they have a problem and the Pubs and Bars have replaced the Church. Many lives are built around alcohol consumption.

The concept of “ poor” is a Western term as with many other terms used to label people. The old “ divide and rule “.

People in Thailand in the past ( and some now) will often say “ I don’t have a budget for that”. But still show signs of contentment, have food, shelter and smiling.

Some Westerners are “ rich” but miserable! Have worries, problems, unhappy.

The media plays a role in pushing people into ‘ must have’, ‘want’.

I have seen it in rural Thailand where people managed perfectly well without microwave ovens; flat screen TVs; Air Fryers etc.

Their daughter goes to work in a Bar and all of a sudden these items become essential!

For me once it’s not controlling my life, I take it all in moderation as they say. I like the philosophical aspects of Religion and not so much the rituals. Happiness is internal not external, yet many are chasing after finding it in Bars etc.or even Churches, blindly. Good luck to them but some will never wake up and have no insight into their behaviour. Good religious texts gives us guidance about your being; taking responsibility for your own actions; living the moment, not the past or future.

Like everything else it becomes a habit. We are addictive creatures!

On 4/14/2026 at 9:00 AM, EVENKEEL said:

It's all about the $$$'s.

Religion is about control and the money is just one of the benefits. "The divine right of kings" and "pie in the sky" to stop the poor cutting the throats of the rich are what first sold it and kept it going. Not "the divine right of kings" any more but definitely "pie in the sky".

8 minutes ago, The Old Bull said:

Religion is about control and the money is just one of the benefits. "The divine right of kings" and "pie in the sky" to stop the poor cutting the throats of the rich are what first sold it and kept it going. Not "the divine right of kings" any more but definitely "pie in the sky".

Everything eventually returns to the same truth: where power and resources concentrate, abuse and corruption begin to grow. The reason is simple. Even an ordinary and honest man can be altered by power over time. Sooner or later, power tests character, and often corrupts it.

And that is the tragedy of it: even when you believe you are doing good for one person, you may at the same time be causing harm somewhere else.

The fact is we know nothing as to how and why the universe. the multiverse, and beyond, were created, and we never will.

3 hours ago, Tazmo said:

Many deny that they have a problem and the Pubs and Bars have replaced the Church. Many lives are built around alcohol consumption.

Why do they refer to alcohol as "spirits" ?

9 hours ago, Wingate said:

These deities all sound incredibly human, as if they were invented by men. In fact, most deities have all the bad qualities of the worst humans...constant need for praise, petty vindictiveness, a demand that it's MY WAY or the path to Hell, etc.

Yes, you are right.

So, Baron Trump must be illiterate; he's got an IQ of 195

This reminds me of a quote from W.C.Fields when religion was discussed. He said " everybody has to believe in something.........I believe I'll have another beer !".

Ok, all you brainiacs ...

Got something for you.

Does Math prove the existence of God? 1 + 1 = God ?

Math is infinite. Math controls the universe. Everything follows mathematical principles. Math has an intrinsic order and is all-powerful as it controls the functioning of the entire universe.

Math does not have human-like qualities, so God does not have human-like qualities. Math is the essence of logical structure that governs the entire universe. Math is the blueprint of reality.

So what created God? What created Math? Math is uncreated and eternal. Math must logically exist. It cannot not exist. You cannot deny the existence of Math. The fabric of reality would unravel.

Math has the power to generate all reality. You can't have a universe without Math. It's the foundation of everything.

We are mathematics expressed in human form.

But math does not prove the existence of a theistic God, like the God in the Bible. Math is the true God that underpins everything. It's eternal, immaterial, uncreated, and infinite.

Anyway, the video is less than 12 minutes if you want to hear it from the horse's mouth.

Thought it was poetic.

13 hours ago, VBF said:

Atheism, like religion, is a belief system, in that its followers work hard to persuade others that "nothing exists."

Atheism is not like a religion, it is not a belief system, it doesn't have followers. It is simply knowledge that something non-existent is just that.

I certainly don't work trying to dissuade religious disciples from their ingrained beliefs. Why would I bother. Classic deflection!

Posting on this topic about the IQ of believers is not hard work, nor is it an attempt to enlighten.

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

Atheism is not like a religion, it is not a belief system, it doesn't have followers. It is simply knowledge that something non-existent is just that.

I certainly don't work trying to dissuade religious disciples from their ingrained beliefs. Why would I bother. Classic deflection!

Posting on this topic about the IQ of believers is not hard work, nor is it an attempt to enlighten.

Then you're an agnostic, not an atheist, because, like me, you just don't care about any religious beliefs.

On 4/14/2026 at 1:00 PM, Old Croc said:

I fail to see the logic in stating being atheist is lazy.

Once you use your intellectual skills to know something doesn't exist, do you expect the intellectual to spend more time on contemplating it? Being atheist doesn't leave you with nothing to think about. There are a million other aspects to life and the universe to contemplate without wasting resources on fairytales!

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

Atheism is not like a religion, it is not a belief system, it doesn't have followers. It is simply knowledge that something non-existent is just that.

I certainly don't work trying to dissuade religious disciples from their ingrained beliefs. Why would I bother. Classic deflection!

Posting on this topic about the IQ of believers is not hard work, nor is it an attempt to enlighten.

You say something non existent is non existent. Correct. But saying you have knowledge that god is non existent is a belief. It is one thing to say that there is no evidence that I am aware of that there is a god and something else to say I know that there is no god.

The softer expression of saying I believe there is no god - rather than I know there is no god - is a step too far too in my opinion - as the word belief indicates some sort of certainty that is simply not appropriate.

In fact even saying there is no evidence is potentially an issue because there may be some evidence that has not come to your attention.

One can simply say there is no evidence of a god that I am aware of and leave it there.

On 4/14/2026 at 12:43 PM, dinsdale said:

What complete and utter rubbish. So not believing in something for which there is zero evidence makes a person a thief and a rapist does it. Of course the obvious comparison to what you suggest is the Catholic church. Plenty of taking from the poor and kiddie fiddling going on in that particular version of fearing retribution. Wait! Sorry. A good old confession and a Hail Mary and all is forgiven.

iIwould say that most religious followers are a psck of hypocrites.

On 4/14/2026 at 12:43 PM, dinsdale said:

What complete and utter rubbish. So not believing in something for which there is zero evidence makes a person a thief and a rapist does it. Of course the obvious comparison to what you suggest is the Catholic church. Plenty of taking from the poor and kiddie fiddling going on in that particular version of fearing retribution. Wait! Sorry. A good old confession and a Hail Mary and all is forgiven.

In my opinion I believe that churches and many of their followers are a pack of hypocrites. I remember many years ago my father and I were doing a maintenence job at a Cathholic church.The front door was not locked and during the day a few people would come in and pray and then leave.Over the week that we were there one man came in at least 3 times every day.We reckonised him as a local used car salesman who was the biggest shonk in town. It seems that everytime he did a crooked deal he would go to the church to repent his sins and then all is forgiven and go back to his caryard for his next victim.

12 minutes ago, wavodavo said:

a psc

I often get amused when I read a funeral notice in the paper e.g Bill Smith passed away on the 21st of June and was cremated on the 26th. He is now resting in Heaven with his maker.What a load of drivel . I have witnessed a cremation first hand and after heing in that oven in the 1000 % temputure poor Billy Smith was going nowhere exept in a wooden box on the mantle piece but his gullble family of believers are happy

Many scientist/mathematitians etc. were in the past, religious and also today. Remember who said 'God doesn't play dice'.?

51 minutes ago, parallelman said:

Many scientist/mathematitians etc. were in the past, religious and also today. Remember who said 'God doesn't play dice'.?

From AI:

2 hours ago, wavodavo said:

I often get amused when I read a funeral notice in the paper e.g Bill Smith passed away on the 21st of June and was cremated on the 26th. He is now resting in Heaven with his maker.What a load of drivel . I have witnessed a cremation first hand and after heing in that oven in the 1000 % temputure poor Billy Smith was going nowhere exept in a wooden box on the mantle piece but his gullble family of believers are happy

Just because you get de-materialized, it doesn't mean you can't get re-materialized somewhere else.

That's basically what the transporter in Star Trek is doing.

I wonder if we might even have this technology in 1000 years.

19 hours ago, Hummin said:

it is often striking how many of those who dismiss religion or belief systems begin to move back toward their roots.

My guess is that usually occurs as they approach death and begin to realise that life could possibly be a hoax and it is only one way street.... You're born you live you die that's it

19 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Can't one believe in a higher being without being a true believer of a certain religion.

Yes you can do that just as long as you realise that my God is the best one is usually the way that ends up

23 hours ago, Dionigi said:

80% of stem academics count themselves as none believers

And how many times have we seen trained experts get it wrong?

STEM academics refers to an interdisciplinary approach to education in Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics, aimed at developing critical thinking, innovation, and workforce readiness. It emphasizes real-world, project-based learning, often integrating disciplines like computer science, robotics, and design into curricula. STEM spans all education levels, preparing students for high-demand careers. 

15 minutes ago, wombat said:

And how many times have we seen trained experts get it wrong?

STEM academics refers to an interdisciplinary approach to education in Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics, aimed at developing critical thinking, innovation, and workforce readiness. It emphasizes real-world, project-based learning, often integrating disciplines like computer science, robotics, and design into curricula. STEM spans all education levels, preparing students for high-demand careers. 

I always thought academics believed in consensus, which is the exact opposite to science IMHO.

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

academics believed in consensus,

will that depend on who is paying their tenure?

9 minutes ago, wombat said:

will that depend on who is paying their tenure?

Obviously!

18 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I always thought academics believed in consensus, which is the exact opposite to science IMHO.

Consensus is not the opposite of science. Blind consensus is. Scientific consensus is simply what forms when many people test, question, and challenge the same subject and still end up landing near the same conclusion. That is not anti-science, that is usually science working as intended

13 hours ago, save the frogs said:

Ok, all you brainiacs ...

Got something for you.

Does Math prove the existence of God? 1 + 1 = God ?

Math is infinite. Math controls the universe. Everything follows mathematical principles. Math has an intrinsic order and is all-powerful as it controls the functioning of the entire universe.

Math does not have human-like qualities, so God does not have human-like qualities. Math is the essence of logical structure that governs the entire universe. Math is the blueprint of reality.

So what created God? What created Math? Math is uncreated and eternal. Math must logically exist. It cannot not exist. You cannot deny the existence of Math. The fabric of reality would unravel.

Math has the power to generate all reality. You can't have a universe without Math. It's the foundation of everything.

We are mathematics expressed in human form.

But math does not prove the existence of a theistic God, like the God in the Bible. Math is the true God that underpins everything. It's eternal, immaterial, uncreated, and infinite.

Anyway, the video is less than 12 minutes if you want to hear it from the horse's mouth.

Thought it was poetic.

What is MATH the abbreviation for please?

When I was at school, last century, we were taught Arithmetic, Geometry, Trigonometry, Pure and Applied, all lumped together and called MathematicS, shortened to MathS.

On 4/15/2026 at 9:21 AM, JamesPhuket10 said:

My opinion is, it is not worth wasting time taking about fairy tales.

Unless your surname is Anderson, Disney, Blyton, or Grimm.

On 4/14/2026 at 3:35 PM, Kyoto Kyle said:

If a basic question triggers this much defensiveness, seems you’re the one desperately clinging to blind belief just to help cope.

Please explain what you just tried to say. What defensiveness? What I did was a conclusion.

Desperately clinging to blind belief??? Again, what? I believe what I can see and touch. No desperation in sight!

Also, why would I need any help to cope? Doing just fine.

Seems like you are the one with the problems. Now try a real shrink instead of seeking help on AN.