On 4/14/2026 at 9:00 AM, EVENKEEL said:

It's all about the $$$'s.

That's what I wrote Einstein.

On 4/14/2026 at 6:37 AM, Kyoto Kyle said:

People often say religion exists to give answers to the big questions. Who are we, where did we come from, and why are we here. Others argue it came before those questions were even formed, as simply a way to control early societies through fear, long before modern systems of power and control over mass populations existed.

Either way, it is hard to ignore that religion still seems to have the strongest pull on those who are less educated, who struggle with critical thinking, or who simply want clear answers rather than uncertainty. For some, it seem to fill the void of things they cannot grasp intellectually like science, philosophy, and logic.

I think belief though is still a personal choice. Some people need something they can believe in, even though they can't see, measure, or prove it. And that's fine. Personally, I have never found it a convincing concept, but clearly many do. It gives hundreds of millions a framework, a sense of purpose, and maybe more importantly, hope.

At the same time, it is difficult not to notice how often religion is tied to power. It still seems to be used, directly or indirectly, to guide behaviour, shape thinking, and in some cases control large groups of people. You see it not just in poorer or less developed places, but also in major Western countries like the United States, where it still holds significant influence and control over large swaths of the country.

There is also the question of who is drawn to it. It often appears that those with fewer resources fall into religion more heavily, perhaps because it offers structure, or the notion that something better lies ahead. That is understandable, but it also raises questions about whether that hope is genuine, or sometimes simply convenient for others who benefit from it.

In many Western countries, interest in religion seems to be fading, especially among the more educated and affluent. In large parts of the East, it remains strong, although much of it can blur into superstition, ritual, and tradition rather than anything deeply spiritual. Then again, the same could be said of many Western religions as well.

So it leaves a big question. Has religion become something that mainly appeals to those who lack intellectual depth, who are looking for certainty and belief over logic, or merely answers over understanding.

Or is it simply that different people are looking for different things. I guess it will always remain a difficult question to ever clearly answer.

My opinion is, it is not worth wasting time taking about fairy tales.

Late to the conversation but true believers come from two soures : " bring up a child in the way he should go ..." , or some epiphany from an adult self inflicted crisis. Lack of intelligence is not necessarily a contributing factot. Trump excluded.

But the end result is the same. Noththing but heartache brought to the table.

Or alternatively it can be for high IQ people who know they can manipulate the majority of low IQ people who need to believe in the sky god.... I mean realistically how else could the Catholic Church, the purveyors of paedophilia get away with it for so long?

On 4/14/2026 at 7:01 AM, save the frogs said:

It's for intellectually lazy people.

But so is atheism -- nothing exists.

And then just go back to watching sports and drinking beer.

See if you can crack the code.

Ask the Romans?? Give the people bread and games to keep them quiet and happy... and poor...

On 4/14/2026 at 9:07 AM, mfd101 said:

What is interesting currently is the growth of Catholicism, in many 'Eastern' countries as well as 'The West' - China, India, Indonesia, Middle East (Moslems! some of them royals), UK (abandoning the nearly-defunct CofE), France (formerly proud of its republican scepticism but now showing signs of a return to Mother Church) ...

In human history things come and go. Then come and go again ... Fun to watch.

Christians remained the world’s biggest religious group. But Christians (of all denominations, counted as one group) did not keep pace with global population growth from 2010 to 2020.

https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2025/05/PR_2025.06.09_global-religious-change_0-01.png?w=840

• The number of Christians rose by 122 million, reaching 2.3 billion.

• Yet, as a share of the world’s population, Christians fell 1.8 percentage points, to 28.8%.

Muslims were the fastest-growing religious group over the decade.

• The number of Muslims increased by 347 million – more than all other religions combined.

• The share of the world’s population that is Muslim rose by 1.8 points, to 25.6%.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2025/06/09/how-the-global-religious-landscape-changed-from-2010-to-2020/

7 minutes ago, wombat said:

Or alternatively it can be for high IQ people who know they can manipulate the majority of low IQ people who need to believe in the sky god.... I mean realistically how else could the Catholic Church, the purveyors of paedophilia get away with it for so long?

80% of stem academics count themselves as none believers

14 minutes ago, wombat said:

Or alternatively it can be for high IQ people who know they can manipulate the majority of low IQ people who need to believe in the sky god.... I mean realistically how else could the Catholic Church, the purveyors of paedophilia get away with it for so long?

Yes ! Someone of high intelligence needed to create a credible belief system to manipulate others. I was referring to those following after who aquire the credulity to follow it.

My paternal grandparents were heavily “ into “ the church but I don’t remember my parents ever setting foot in one except for weddings.

My brothers and myself were sent to church every Sunday and Sunday school for a while but as soon as we realised that there was no comeback from our parents if we didn’t go then we stopped and would hang out around the village or with our friends.

Worst case scenario:

Grandad: “ I didn’t see you at church on Sunday “

Me: “ we arrived late and stood at the back “

Grandad: “ah okay “

No lightening bolts struck me down so I figured there was no reason to go.

My parents realised we weren’t actually going so stopped trying to send us.

My relationship with my parents and grandparents stayed exactly the same, we respected each other’s wishes and life went on as normal.

No one ever mentioned it but I imagine our grandparents felt slightly sad we hadn’t followed them and their “ faith “, we showed our love by mowing their lawn or cleaning their gutters etc ( and yes we were prompted by our parents ! ).

We all benefited from the situation:

Grandparents got to kneel and pray to their hearts content.

My brothers and myself felt rebellious playing on the swings and slides when we should have been at church.

My parents, well they got the house to themselves every Sunday morning, probably best not to imagine what they got up to !!

Both my father and grandfather were extremely intelligent men so I don’t buy the religion/intelligence connection.

23 hours ago, save the frogs said:

just mocking religion is not enough

contemplating on how we got here is one of the most important things to think about ...

I agree.

My intellect quickly made me reject the ludicrous Adam and Eve scenario and accept the science of evolution.

18 minutes ago, Jethro Tull said:

Both my father and grandfather were extremely intelligent men so I don’t buy the religion/intelligence connection.

I will admit to having trouble understanding how a few people with a high IQ can believe in the hocus pokus of religion.

I put it down to strong emotions, fears, needs and strict upbringings among other things.

Intelligent people, while less likely to believe in the religious concept, are not AI machines, but people who still fear the inevitable complete end death brings. Some will utilise caution in the hope there is more.

2 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

I will admit to having trouble understanding how a few people with a high IQ can believe in the hocus pokus of religion.

I put it down to strong emotions, fears, needs and strict upbringings among other things.

Intelligent people, while less likely to believe in the religious concept, are not AI machines, but people who still fear the inevitable complete end death brings. Some will utilise caution in the hope there is more.

Yes, different times for my grandparents ( born in 1899 ) and thinking back it was kinda strange how my father, an only child, didn’t follow in their footsteps.

Maybe pressure from my mother, i don’t recall if her sister or parents were religious or not, they lived in another city, but i tend to think my father just saw through the mumbo jumbo of it all.

Wonder how it would have affected my life if my parents were religious, would like to think i would have seen through it all for myself at an early age but who knows, peer pressure can affect lives !

Fun fact:

The Rolling Stones logo was inspired by the Hindu Goddess Kali

23 hours ago, D Peter said:

Religion is a multi‑purpose human invention:

• It gives meaning

• It creates community

• It provides moral rules

• It offers comfort

• It connects people to something larger

• It organizes societies

{AI}

I agree, apart from the Moral Rules and Something Larger part. What would old ladies do if they couldn't dress up every week and pop down to their local social centre (church. temple, etc) and natter to each other.

My wife's life largely revolves around the local temple and all the special days and functions they have there. All involve food and prayer and sometimes dancing, beer and even rock bands. They love the ceremonial and social aspect of the place. It's definitely about community rather than piousness. I've tried asking locals about the man, Buddha, his origins and philosophies. No clue.

On 4/14/2026 at 6:37 AM, Kyoto Kyle said:

People often say religion exists to give answers to the big questions. Who are we, where did we come from, and why are we here. Others argue it came before those questions were even formed, as simply a way to control early societies through fear, long before modern systems of power and control over mass populations existed.

Either way, it is hard to ignore that religion still seems to have the strongest pull on those who are less educated, who struggle with critical thinking, or who simply want clear answers rather than uncertainty. For some, it seem to fill the void of things they cannot grasp intellectually like science, philosophy, and logic.

I think belief though is still a personal choice. Some people need something they can believe in, even though they can't see, measure, or prove it. And that's fine. Personally, I have never found it a convincing concept, but clearly many do. It gives hundreds of millions a framework, a sense of purpose, and maybe more importantly, hope.

At the same time, it is difficult not to notice how often religion is tied to power. It still seems to be used, directly or indirectly, to guide behaviour, shape thinking, and in some cases control large groups of people. You see it not just in poorer or less developed places, but also in major Western countries like the United States, where it still holds significant influence and control over large swaths of the country.

There is also the question of who is drawn to it. It often appears that those with fewer resources fall into religion more heavily, perhaps because it offers structure, or the notion that something better lies ahead. That is understandable, but it also raises questions about whether that hope is genuine, or sometimes simply convenient for others who benefit from it.

In many Western countries, interest in religion seems to be fading, especially among the more educated and affluent. In large parts of the East, it remains strong, although much of it can blur into superstition, ritual, and tradition rather than anything deeply spiritual. Then again, the same could be said of many Western religions as well.

So it leaves a big question. Has religion become something that mainly appeals to those who lack intellectual depth, who are looking for certainty and belief over logic, or merely answers over understanding.

Or is it simply that different people are looking for different things. I guess it will always remain a difficult question to ever clearly answer.

I think this question could only be asked by someone of low IQ.

On 4/14/2026 at 6:37 AM, Kyoto Kyle said:

People often say religion exists to give answers to the big questions. Who are we, where did we come from, and why are we here. Others argue it came before those questions were even formed, as simply a way to control early societies through fear, long before modern systems of power and control over mass populations existed.

Either way, it is hard to ignore that religion still seems to have the strongest pull on those who are less educated, who struggle with critical thinking, or who simply want clear answers rather than uncertainty. For some, it seem to fill the void of things they cannot grasp intellectually like science, philosophy, and logic.

I think belief though is still a personal choice. Some people need something they can believe in, even though they can't see, measure, or prove it. And that's fine. Personally, I have never found it a convincing concept, but clearly many do. It gives hundreds of millions a framework, a sense of purpose, and maybe more importantly, hope.

At the same time, it is difficult not to notice how often religion is tied to power. It still seems to be used, directly or indirectly, to guide behaviour, shape thinking, and in some cases control large groups of people. You see it not just in poorer or less developed places, but also in major Western countries like the United States, where it still holds significant influence and control over large swaths of the country.

There is also the question of who is drawn to it. It often appears that those with fewer resources fall into religion more heavily, perhaps because it offers structure, or the notion that something better lies ahead. That is understandable, but it also raises questions about whether that hope is genuine, or sometimes simply convenient for others who benefit from it.

In many Western countries, interest in religion seems to be fading, especially among the more educated and affluent. In large parts of the East, it remains strong, although much of it can blur into superstition, ritual, and tradition rather than anything deeply spiritual. Then again, the same could be said of many Western religions as well.

So it leaves a big question. Has religion become something that mainly appeals to those who lack intellectual depth, who are looking for certainty and belief over logic, or merely answers over understanding.

Or is it simply that different people are looking for different things. I guess it will always remain a difficult question to ever clearly answer.

Is that why the USA has the leadership? it has now?

8 minutes ago, Jethro Tull said:

Yes, different times for my grandparents ( born in 1899 ) and thinking back it was kinda strange how my father, an only child, didn’t follow in their footsteps.

Maybe pressure from my mother, i don’t recall if her sister or parents were religious or not, they lived in another city, but i tend to think my father just saw through the mumbo jumbo of it all.

Wonder how it would have affected my life if my parents were religious, would like to think i would have seen through it all for myself at an early age but who knows, peer pressure can affect lives !

I once read that gods were basically invented as the answer to all the inexplicable things ancient civilizations saw around them. The stars, moon, asteroids and of course the sun and eclipses. They had to appease the gods to keep these natural events from destroying them.

Of course, now science has advanced mankind's knowledge to the point where we understand most of these mysteries. Religion now is just for those mentioned in the OP.

1 hour ago, koolkarl said:

That's what I wrote Einstein.

2 hours ago, koolkarl said:

On 4/14/2026 at 9:00 AM, EVENKEEL said:

It's all about the $$$'s.

That's what I wrote Einstein.

That's what I wrote Trump

On 4/14/2026 at 9:26 AM, impulse said:

Personally, I think the fear of retribution in the afterlife is what allows western society to thrive. Otherwise, it would be a free-for-all of thievery and debauchery.

Why then are so many religious people so evil?

If you disagree go to the news section.

On 4/13/2026 at 9:26 PM, impulse said:

The smart money says that there's no downside to believing (even if you're wrong), but a huge downside if you don't believe, and you're wrong.

The smart money says you get one brief life. Don't waste that precious time doing things like going to church.

2 minutes ago, Paradise Pete said:

The smart money says you get one brief life. Don't waste that precious time going to church.

I had a lot more meaningful connections with people in church on Sunday than I ever had in the bars on Saturday night. The bars were the real waste...

But, to each his own.

I'd also mention that church on Sunday was a LOT cheaper and less risky than the bars on Saturday night, and that's without even getting a DUI... Which never happens after church, either

2 minutes ago, Paradise Pete said:

The smart money says you get one brief life. Don't waste that precious time doing things like going to church.

Yep ... at least 1 hour a week at $5-10-$20 a pop, or what ever currency using.

50+ hrs and $250-1000s yearly, you could spend on something useful, or not so useful. That's a lot smile, that you aren't getting at church.

On 4/14/2026 at 10:16 AM, bunnydrops said:

If I asked here if the country of Mongolia exists, most would say "yes" even though they have never been there or met a Mongolian. They are sure of their belief because they have "faith" in some "higher power".

What a complete idiotic comparison.

You don't have to have seen nor experienced everyplace and thing on the planet to know it exists. Actual evidence is everywhere and more than sufficient to make an informed decision.

I haven't stepped on the steppes, but have met Mongolians and even watched The Voice, Mongolia!

Your fairytale is no more than a fictitious tome which has been greatly enhanced by millions of scammers seeking profit from the dupes.

20 hours ago, MIke B Bad said:

Look at your list.........

You could have just said it's a cult for the weak minded.

pathetic answer

On 4/14/2026 at 10:19 AM, TedG said:

What are the upper and lower bounds for someone to be religious?

Too stupid for science?

Try religion.

Definitely. I have yet to meet a deeply religious person - of any faith - who is intelligent. You can either think for yourself or rely on your imaginary friend in the sky.

2 hours ago, koolkarl said:

That's what I wrote Einstein.

Whatsa matter with you.

20 hours ago, bunnydrops said:

All the things you mentioned, except flying, is faith in your source. You want to separate the belief in one thing as being different than a belief in all other things. As I said before, Mongolia only exists because we collectively say it exists

I “get” what you’re saying.

Depends what one means by 'religion'.

Word derived from 'religio' described by Wikipedia thus " It is recorded beginning in the 1st century BC, i.e. in Classical Latin at the end of the Roman Republic, notably by Cicero, in the sense of 'scrupulous or strict observance of the traditional cultus'.

Taken on this basis, I would assess that in current globally-dominant western culture it has come, increasingly since the Reformation [note, am not RC] to mean a belief in a purely materialist world. Has been changing of late, helped not least by advances in the boundaries of scientific thought.

But most people, including many 'scientists', believe in a technological materialism - and an increasingly technocratic world.

Where formal religions are still believed in rather than paid lip-service to, they tend to become ossified in a rigid belief system, rather than offering s path to self-development (enlightenment) which was likely the purpose of their founders.

So, yes, much of humanity is currently dumbed down by a distractive media circus, giving it an average IQ way below its potential.

This might perhaps provide food for thought:

On 4/14/2026 at 4:49 AM, KhunLA said:

I'd believe the low IQ thingy, if 2 of my brothers weren't Christian warriors, and I consider them both, very intelligent.

Religion does seem to control the masses of ignorant people, who believe anything they are told, without the knowledge to dispute. Does seem as the world becomes more educated, less are falling for the farce of religions.

The OP's thesis makes the mistake of equating intellectual (IQ) intelligence with emotional intelligence.

You can be highly intelligent IQ-wise, but lack enough emotional intelligence and stability to be able to live without the false comforts of religion.

If you are insecure and feel unloved in a frightening world - just like those tribals back then struggling with hurricanes and volcanoes and bears in the woods - then it's easy to accept the 'explanations' of religion. Doesn't matter how 'smart' you are.

So if you can't hack personal responsibility, individual autonomy and the inevitability of your own death, just ascribe to some myths and fairy tales and hey - you'll feel better.

Religion manipulates the fearful just like the fascists - it's nowt to do with IQ.