Okay, this article does raise some genuinely interesting points in a fairly measured way. It feels quite insightful in places, while still leaving a bit of space for context, and the possibility that not everything presented By Andrew Drummond and Adam Howell is air tight. Drummond is frequently publishing with fact checking. This is careless as the disgraced journalist was convicted of fake allegations.

https://drummondhowellcampaign.com/evidence/pattaya-groups-incitement-may-2026

The whole Drummond vs Flowers saga stinks.

Drummond has convinced himself the women working in the bars are trafficked and/or underage, that's where he goes wrong

2 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Drummond has convinced himself the women working in the bars are trafficked and/or underage, that's where he goes wrong

If I remember correctly he was convicted for some illegal stuff awhile back with that other clown N/C. I believe Drum is black listed as well.

5 minutes ago, Bagwain said:

If I remember correctly he was convicted for some illegal stuff awhile back with that other clown N/C. I believe Drum is black listed as well.

I think a bar manager and Flowers wife (the owner) were convicted, sounds like the manager decided to employ an underage girl

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

I think a bar manager and Flowers wife (the owner) were convicted, sounds like the manager decided to employ an underage girl

That's a bit misleading, she employed a female who used a false ID anc claimed to be older than she actually was . There's a big difference.

9 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

That's a bit misleading, she employed a female who used a false ID anc claimed to be older than she actually was . There's a big difference.

ah ok, they seemed to be pinning it on the manager and the wife was the owner so got caught up in it. You should post on the Andrew Drummond facebook article he made

10 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

ah ok, they seemed to be pinning it on the manager and the wife was the owner so got caught up in it. You should post on the Andrew Drummond facebook article he made

Every bar in Thailand is owned by a Thai, while the foreigner runs it and takes the profits.

10 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

ah ok, they seemed to be pinning it on the manager and the wife was the owner so got caught up in it. You should post on the Andrew Drummond facebook article he made

The people that matter know all this already..old news. All these theories from many posters who just read a few articles is quite comical.

4 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

The people that matter know all this already..old news. All these theories from many posters who just read a few articles is quite comical.

This thread is interesting for those that don't know this already! Those that do know all this already can either tell those of us who don't, or just avoid commenting!

5 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

Every bar in Thailand is owned by a Thai, while the foreigner runs it and takes the profits.

who, in many cases spends those profits back on the Thai who owns it............

7 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

Every bar in Thailand is owned by a Thai, while the foreigner runs it and takes the profits.

Some thais must own bars, but some farang sign over everything to the wife rather than the bog standard 49%, which i understand he did based on what i read

5 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Drummond has convinced himself the women working in the bars are trafficked and/or underage, that's where he goes wrong

I met my wife of 25 years in a bar on Beach Road Pattaya. She was 45 yo then and we're still together. The reason she went to a bar was her husband died when he was 33 yo ( motor bike ) She lived by herself for 12 years and life was tough bringing up 2 teenage daughters. So when her kids moved out she went to Pattaya to look for a long term relationship. I met her 5 days later, so it was win/win. There's 2 types of ladies that work in bars, some are looking for a LTR and others it's straight forward gash for cash.

Edited May 21May 21 by Rams86

4 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

This thread is interesting for those that don't know this already! Those that do know all this already can either tell those of us who don't, or just avoid commenting!

Word salad. Yum

15 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I think a bar manager and Flowers wife (the owner) were convicted, sounds like the manager decided to employ an underage girl

Got the impression the bar manager was some patsy!

17 hours ago, Andy Harrow said:

Okay, this article does raise some genuinely interesting points in a fairly measured way. It feels quite insightful in places, while still leaving a bit of space for context, and the possibility that not everything presented By Andrew Drummond and Adam Howell is air tight. Drummond is frequently publishing with fact checking. This is careless as the disgraced journalist was convicted of fake allegations.

https://drummondhowellcampaign.com/evidence/pattaya-groups-incitement-may-2026

17 hours ago, Bagwain said:

If I remember correctly he was convicted for some illegal stuff awhile back with that other clown N/C. I believe Drum is black listed as well.

Who is N/C? What was he convicted of.

18 hours ago, Andy Harrow said:

Okay, this article does raise some genuinely interesting points in a fairly measured way. It feels quite insightful in places, while still leaving a bit of space for context, and the possibility that not everything presented By Andrew Drummond and Adam Howell is air tight. Drummond is frequently publishing with fact checking. This is careless as the disgraced journalist was convicted of fake allegations.

https://drummondhowellcampaign.com/evidence/pattaya-groups-incitement-may-2026

In what case was the journalist convicted of fake allegations. He was acquitted on all cases from what I recall and never been disgraced.

15 hours ago, CharlieH said:

That's a bit misleading, she employed a female who used a false ID anc claimed to be older than she actually was . There's a big difference.

That evidence was not presented in court. Its a line put out by the Flowers AI publicity machine. No false ID was presented.

15 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

ah ok, they seemed to be pinning it on the manager and the wife was the owner so got caught up in it. You should post on the Andrew Drummond facebook article he made

No - they pinned everything on three employees including a Briton who were each sentenced to 21 years in jail. Flowers was untouched. His wife was the only one acquitted of trfficking an under aged girl into prostitution was was sentenced to three years for running illegal sex business. Yes. Strange of course. But police had to be shown getting some results. Expect her to be acquitted on appeal - but not the sacrificial lambs.

18 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Drummond has convinced himself the women working in the bars are trafficked and/or underage, that's where he goes wrong

The law is the law.

Bars are not allowed to hire underage girls. No one cares what a reporter thinks.

Drummond is a secondary figure. He was just reporting.

But it was the anti-trafickking organization that found out there was an underage girl working there.

Also ... the fact that the owner did not get arrested, but the 21 year old bar manager on a student visa got serious jail time is telling. The owner probably paid off some important people large sums due to his wealth and status got off the hook. And a young nobody bar manager took the hit.

Cautionary tale for young bar managers, in my opinion. They are easier to blame as they have no money, power or influence and the bar owner continues to run the bar and keep the money flowing. No one wants to see the cash cow disappear.

20 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

The whole Drummond vs Flowers saga stinks.

And bores!

1 hour ago, save the frogs said:

the fact that the owner did not get arrested, but the 21 year old bar manager on a student visa got serious jail time is telling

The owner who is the wife was arrested i read, the owner on paper at least

33 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

The owner who is the wife was arrested i read, the owner on paper at least

I dont have the link now, but I read the wife got 3 years.

But a young Brit managing the place got a really long sentence, maybe 20 years.

So what I'm getting is lower peons on the hierarchy might get scapegoated.

People who apply for these jobs should be careful.

So Flowers desperate online smear campaign against Drummond has now reached this forum. Surprised a thread specifically targeting individuals is allowed on here.

15 hours ago, Andy Harrow said:

19 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

This thread is interesting for those that don't know this already! Those that do know all this already can either tell those of us who don't, or just avoid commenting!

Word salad. Yum

Perfectly intelligible "word salad".

8 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

The owner who is the wife was arrested i read, the owner on paper at least

She sat in a cell for a long time. Flowers talked about it on his Youtube channel. I don't know (or care) what to make of the guy. He seems to be bipolar and is all over the map.

7 hours ago, kinyara said:

So Flowers desperate online smear campaign against Drummond has now reached this forum. Surprised a thread specifically targeting individuals is allowed on here.

Not only that they banned my reply from Drummond. He has been blocked since writing about individuals in ASEAN Now when it was Thai Visa

On 5/21/2026 at 7:38 AM, Andy Harrow said:

Okay, this article does raise some genuinely interesting points in a fairly measured way. It feels quite insightful in places, while still leaving a bit of space for context, and the possibility that not everything presented By Andrew Drummond and Adam Howell is air tight. Drummond is frequently publishing with fact checking. This is careless as the disgraced journalist was convicted of fake allegations.

https://drummondhowellcampaign.com/evidence/pattaya-groups-incitement-may-2026

What interesting points? Its AI slop by Flowers. Drummond has never been disgraced He was convicted of libel in Pattaya-and acquitted of both cases on appeal. I am surprised ThaiVisa allowed his thread but there is some background here with Drummond I believe. Nudge nudge. All in all, however, posters have got it right apart from Flowers' trolls - from a man who created www.ethical-trolling.com!! He appreciates it.

5 minutes ago, Thai-Defender said:

Not only that they banned my reply from Drummond. He has been blocked since writing about individuals in ASEAN Now when it was Thai Visa

Rubbish...for someone that only joined AN yesterday, you need to get your facts correct.

Enuff said.

8 hours ago, save the frogs said:

I dont have the link now, but I read the wife got 3 years.

But a young Brit managing the place got a really long sentence, maybe 20 years.

So what I'm getting is lower peons on the hierarchy might get scapegoated.

People who apply for these jobs should be careful.

Translated now that means three employees were jailed for doing Flowers' bidding. in a message to an investor he said he had to pay out 11.5 million baht 'due to corrupt police. In a memo to investors he asked them to thank his team for getting his 'company' off the human trafficking case - 7 months before the verdict!!! Drummond has published those on his site if you search Night Wish Files. www.andrew-drummond.com. Authorities have them. Flowers further admitted on video that he put all his businesses in Thai names 'so I don't go to jail' video by vlogger 'Chocolate Man in Thailand'