No More Dependent Extension Of Stay If The Host Foreigner Has A Retirement Extension Of Stay Permit

[JaiGuru]

Correction to my post above:

In 2005, the average tourist spent 3,890 THB per day, down from 4,058 in 2004.

[Johpa]

I couldn’t find any statistics on how much resident aliens spend each month, but I think this forum speaks for itself; there are a few posters with lofty budgets of 100k THB per month (3,226 THB per day), but most seem to wonder how they are going to spend 65k THB per month (2,096 THB per day), grouse about why should they have to bring in so much money when the cost of living is so cheap, or as a recent post in this thread mentioned a farang and his Thai wife figuring out how they’re going to spend only 40k THB per month (1,290 THB per day).

So guru, please advise how to go about spending 1,290 THB per day if one has already paid off the house and car? I suppose I could go into town every day and buy a decent breakfast at 60B and a lunch at 60B and go to the best restaurant in town for dinner and spend 200B. ( I could pay much more at a local hotel but for an inferior meal) So double that for the Thai wife and we are still only half way there. So add a bottle of Sang Som and we at least get past half way there. Perhaps if I bought our bottled water from 7-11 at 10B a bottle I could also slowly make my way to that amount, but I am happy buying wholesale quantities at 1B per bottle.

But the reality is that neither myself nor my wife are going to drive to the nearest town for three meals a day, nor am I capable of drinking alcohol every day.

The reality is also that even average middle class Thais would be hard pressed to spend 1,290 THB per day outside the cities. Look, I am very happy for you that your lifestyle combined with your personal finances allows you to so easily spend that amount each and every day, or at least average out your daily expenses to that amount. The reality is that what you consider to be a trifling amount only shows your remoteness from the reality that most Thais experience, a true neo-sahib.

[the gent]

Often the service tax added to a challenging bill has a similar effect, as much as, say, too much salt rubbed into an unexpected wound.

Trouble is, how could anyone complain if one chose to sup where one couldn't be bothered to check the tariff because one was under an impression it was so cheap as not to matter?

Now where's my senator........

[Jingthing]

Often the service tax added to a challenging bill has a similar effect, as much as, say, too much salt rubbed into an unexpected wound.

Trouble is, how could anyone complain if one chose to sup where one couldn't be bothered to check the tariff because one was under an impression it was so cheap as not to matter?

Now where's my senator........

Its more like entering a restaurant and buying a meal plan from them which offers all your meals for a year, paying in full in advance, and then after a few months you are told you must pay the full amount again because the rules have changed, but the money has to be paid four months ago, and if you can't bend the rules of time, you must not only not eat for the year, you must leave the country.

[the gent]

Rather think it's called ' taking a position '.

Why whinge if the dividend proves unpalatable?

[Jingthing]

Rather think it's called ' taking a position '.

Why whinge if the dividend proves unpalatable?

Selling up and moving across the world at an advanced age is rather more serious than buying a stock or bond.

[the gent]

A manouevre best contemplated in an anticipation rather from any necessity perhaps?

Since when did judgement come without consequences? One is aware that with age certain benefits can accrue but as far as I can glean maturity brings no immunity to fortune, good or bad..If only the opposite were true, then perhaps my decisions could be made a tad more lightly.

[otton]

The most recent data I could find (fiscal year 1999) shows 94,616 female and 171,233 male resident aliens living in Thailand. Of the preceding 5 or so years, the number was rather flat; no big trend up or down. I was surprised to see males outnumber females at only 2 to 1; I must travel with the wrong crowd. US and Japanese males outnumber US and Japanese females at over 3 to 1.

[...]

Here’s something else to chew on; of the 265,849 resident aliens living in Thailand, 81.86% are from China, with only 2.05% from the UK, 0.89% from the US, and 0.49% from Germany.

Sources?

AFAIK those numbers refer to Bangkok ONLY not to the whole of Thailand.

250,000 Chinese, 30,000 Japanese, 100,000 Indians, 6,000 Americans, 45,000 Europeans, 15,000 Taiwanese, 7,000 South Koreans, 6,000 Nigerians, 8,000 people of Arabic speaking countries, 20,000 Malaysians, and 4,000 Singaporeans.

The vast majority of the females are Chinese, Indian and Malaysians.

And while we're quoting statistics; the average monthly income in Greater Bangkok per household (3.2 persons) is 24,690 THB as of the year 2000.

And the average monthly income for the whole of Thailand (Greater Bangkok included) is still the 7700 Baht I mentioned several times already...

And the data is from the latest Bank Of Thailand release, Q1 2007.

My recollection is that according to TAT, international tourists spend on average about 3,500 THB per day. There must be quite a few doing it on the cheap as most people I know spend considerably more.

The usual old considerations are as true as always: the TAT estimates are based on traceable spendings, ie hotels, restaurants in the tourist areas, tourists attractions etc and from the data the tourists agencies themselves feed the TAT with.

MOST of the typical Western and other rich Asian tourists's spending doesn't end up in those stats. ALMOST ALL of the typical sex tourists' spending doesn't up in those stats as well.

I couldn’t find any statistics on how much resident aliens spend each month, but I think this forum speaks for itself; there are a few posters with lofty budgets of 100k THB per month (3,226 THB per day), but most seem to wonder how they are going to spend 65k THB per month (2,096 THB per day), grouse about why should they have to bring in so much money when the cost of living is so cheap, or as a recent post in this thread mentioned a farang and his Thai wife figuring out how they’re going to spend only 40k THB per month (1,290 THB per day).

Do a simple back of the envelope calculation of JUST the typical setup costs of most of the long staying folks here (condo or house+car+motorbike) and multiply for JUST their number in Bangkok (which is very likely to be far less than the total in all the rest of the country) and you will be stunned... And then consider on average how many Thai citizens are they most probably supporting outright and how many are they periodically "helping out" and NOW add their own living cost (just think about the cost of the red tape)...

Done? What are your estimates?

Now, remember once again that the average Thai monthly income is, TODAY, 7,700 Baht, GBP 116, EUR 170, USD 233.

Chew on this.

[otton]

The gent, would you be posting these same kind of comments on Thai message boards if Western countries started to send the Thais residing in the West back to their smiling home?

[the gent]

Positons reversed, I would think concern would be measured proportionate to that felt by the 20 odd families that currently run Thailand have for their fellow nationals scratching around the dirt of Isaan.

Puts it on the map for you?

[PeaceBlondie]

Rather think it's called ' taking a position '.

Selling up and moving across the world at an advanced age is rather more serious than buying a stock or bond.

Exactly, Jingthing. Better to never move across the world here in the first place, or best to get out and back to the Western hemisphere while I still can.

[iang]

If you are applying for the extension of stay based on retirement. You now need to provide a map from Immigration to your house.

How ridiculous is this? Immigration cant read an address? If someone has a detailed map of my moo ban...please let me know.......I've never found one.

Will a sketch suffice?

Seriously...is this a joke?

Try Google Earth - you can place 'pins' on the resultant map, to denote the location of the immigration office and the location of your house / moo baan.

[wolfmanjack]

[\quote]

Indeed I do. But Phaulkon was greedy for his own power, and suffered the consequences. I'm talking about understanding Thai culture and trying to integrate into Thai society, not take it over!

Anyway, it seems that I am standing alone in my views. Let's see what happens in the future.

Simon

Simon,

Since you have some kind of insider connections in order to get the expat stats then maybe you could ask the opinion of these people. The opinions of powerful thais would be of more use than the opinion of all of us falangs.

[retiredusn]

Rather think it's called ' taking a position '.

Selling up and moving across the world at an advanced age is rather more serious than buying a stock or bond.

Exactly, Jingthing. Better to never move across the world here in the first place, or best to get out and back to the Western hemisphere while I still can.

Do not worry about turning the lights off on your way out, The wife and I will. We are going to be right behind you

[wolfmanjack]

Sources?

AFAIK those numbers refer to Bangkok ONLY not to the whole of Thailand.

250,000 Chinese, 30,000 Japanese, 100,000 Indians, 6,000 Americans, 45,000 Europeans, 15,000 Taiwanese, 7,000 South Koreans, 6,000 Nigerians, 8,000 people of Arabic speaking countries, 20,000 Malaysians, and 4,000 Singaporeans.

The vast majority of the females are Chinese, Indian and Malaysians.

Those numbers come form the statistical office of thailand and are supposedly for the whole kingdom but are for 1999. According to the BBC article that stated there are 41,000 british retirees residing in thailand this would mean these numbers are multiplied by many times over.

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

They make things for us very difficult now. But did you ever ask yourself why? We do the same with them, since many years. If Thai People like to go to Europe or USA, it's almost impossibile for them to get a visa. Why don't we let them travel easely? Maybe they would let us stay easly too.

Get off of it.

Most thais can not afford to pay for the airplane ticket plus one night in the hotel in most first world countries. The thais that can prove they have the funds to pay for a vacation in the USA do not have a problem getting a visa unless they have other issues like a criminal record.

You are wrong.

I don't know exactly about USA but the British and some other EU nations give very hard time to some Thai citizens (with more than enough money) applying just for tourist visa. They have some quotas like no. of stamps per day, I'm not sure how far their craziness could go.

The reasons for the control by the US immigration historically is that Thais went there and overstayed, got in trouble, the wrong elements arrived, etc..etc.. Actually, most Thais in Thailand know this and understand why it's so tough. After 9/11, forget it. Nobody gets in, Thai or otherwise.

I have a Thai friend of modest means who just received a 10 year US visa. He has never left Thailand before in his life. He's nopt rich just an ordinary Thai. While that may not be the case for many it does happen.

[Jimjim]

Yes, the most valuable question and answer would be, "Why?" Why did they make this new regulation? And who wanted it?

[jumnien]

I'm not sure if Thais want more farang to live here or not. I do know that most of us farang people, well, do not want more and more farang people moving here. Enough is enough.

[Sateev]

The reasons for the control by the US immigration historically is that Thais went there and overstayed, got in trouble, the wrong elements arrived, etc..etc.. Actually, most Thais in Thailand know this and understand why it's so tough. After 9/11, forget it. Nobody gets in, Thai or otherwise.

I have a Thai friend of modest means who just received a 10 year US visa. He has never left Thailand before in his life. He's nopt rich just an ordinary Thai. While that may not be the case for many it does happen.

Exactly.

The rude fact is that literally thousands of Thai restaurants in America are staffed by Thai students, working illegally, and paid FAR below the minimum wage. They typically work for tips, and a small hourly wage in cash, and pay NO taxes, whatsoever. And this has been going on for a LONG time. I met my first Thai girlfriend while she was working in exactly those circumstances in Los Angeles, in 1981.

Still, another Thai friend has had two tourist visas to the US in the last five years, and now has her 10 year visa. She, too, is working illegally, although she has married a Vietnamese who has US citizenship, for purposes of obtaining a green card...not sure this is consistent with the 'spirit' of the law, either...

Let's put an end to the 'visa treatment parity' angle on this discussion. It has been said before, and I will repeat: the US/Europe and Thailand are NOT comparable in this regard. If anything, the US system is more vulnerable to real abuse, owing to the freedom there, civil rights, etc., and the vastness of the problem.

Sateev

[JaiGuru]

I couldn’t find any statistics on how much resident aliens spend each month, but I think this forum speaks for itself; there are a few posters with lofty budgets of 100k THB per month (3,226 THB per day), but most seem to wonder how they are going to spend 65k THB per month (2,096 THB per day), grouse about why should they have to bring in so much money when the cost of living is so cheap, or as a recent post in this thread mentioned a farang and his Thai wife figuring out how they’re going to spend only 40k THB per month (1,290 THB per day).

So guru, please advise how to go about spending 1,290 THB per day if one has already paid off the house and car? ...

The reality is that what you consider to be a trifling amount only shows your remoteness from the reality that most Thais experience, a true neo-sahib.

Please, the nick is JaiGuru.

Personally, I don’t have a dog in this fight. I went looking for some answers and posted what I found.

If you carefully re-read the paragraph you quoted, it should be quite evident I’m not looking down on people with lower budgets at all. While it is true that my Thailand holiday budget is higher than the TAT average, my living in Rangsit budget is only 50k THB per month (not including travel and entertainment). Could I spend more? Perhaps, but right now 50k THB suits me right down to the ground. In a couple years, I expect the budget will grow not only due to inflation, but it’s always possible that appealing opportunities might come knocking. At least, that’s the current plan.

What I do find interesting is that on one hand people living in LOS say they are bringing so much into the country, while on the other hand so many are living so cheaply; they want to compare their living situation to tourists, and to my way of thinking it falls flat. Some seemingly think there are so many more expats from the West than tourists, but that doesn’t pan out either.

Your situation sounds a bit like my father’s; he had a wife, a house, a TV, a car, and he was set for life. It was the life he had dreamt of; can’t blame him for that. I crave a little more activity; I may have landed a woman, but I continue to woo her and that’s a line item in my budget. And that costs money.

With regard to your “neo-sahib crack; pul-leaze, living well is nothing new to me. But look at it as I’m doing you a favor; you’ll never blame me for taking one of your cheap-seats.

[dsfbrit]

I am offering a couple of personal examples here to provide some encouragement to those affected by this proposed change.

I am a 53 year old farang, married to a Thai, with a visa based on marriage (not retirement). I own a house, which I mistakenly bought through the company route.

Over the last couple of years, I have come onto TV and almost been sick with worry about what I have read. The 2 subjects were:

1. The tightening of the implemetaion of the rules over land ownership via the company route. Basically the initial article and all the indications at that time meant I would have my land repossessed by the Government. Since then, nothing much has happened and that was nearly 18 months ago now. Some farang have restructured their company, or moved the land to Thais and leased or whatever.

2. The tightening up of the visa rules in October 2006. Again there were all kinds of dire warnings of the impact this would have on farangs. However, most people found a way through the mess with help from TV and others. At the moment I am allowed to deposit 400,000 baht as before as this was 'grandfathered' in. I expect this to change sometime though!

The point is life goes on and I keep up to date with what it going on and am ready to do something if I need to.

Once the 'dust has settled' on this latest change, I am sure there will be a way around it - there usually is.

I think it was Groucho Marx who said 'I would not want to be a part of a club that would want me as a member' (was it??). I think the battle to stay in the LOS is just a part of the 'event' of living somewhere I really want to be.

Good Luck to those of you who are impacted by this change - like me with changes above -you will sort something out I am sure.

Edited September 3, 2007 by dsfbrit

[wolfmanjack]

They make things for us very difficult now. But did you ever ask yourself why? We do the same with them, since many years. If Thai People like to go to Europe or USA, it's almost impossibile for them to get a visa. Why don't we let them travel easely? Maybe they would let us stay easly too.

Get off of it.

Most thais can not afford to pay for the airplane ticket plus one night in the hotel in most first world countries. The thais that can prove they have the funds to pay for a vacation in the USA do not have a problem getting a visa unless they have other issues like a criminal record.

You are wrong.

I don't know exactly about USA but the British and some other EU nations give very hard time to some Thai citizens (with more than enough money) applying just for tourist visa. They have some quotas like no. of stamps per day, I'm not sure how far their craziness could go.

How can you say I am wrong and then turn around and say you do not know about the USA ? I know many thais that have valid reasons to go to the USA for a visit that have the funds, can prove where the funds came from, and can show a compelling reason to come back to thailand have no problems getting a visa to the USA.

Many people that want to go to the USA to overstay and work, borrow enough money for a plane ticket and to show funds to support 2 weeks in the USA. Then when they get there they overstay to work illegally so they can pay the loan back. That is why they are so strict on checking where the money came from and any lie will get you denied. I know two girls from wealthy families that applied for a visa for the USA. They both had more than the necessary funds in their bank account to pay for the visit. One was approved and the other denied. The one that was approved told the person doing the interview that the money came from her parents. The one that was denied told the person that did the interview that the money was hers. Since they were both just graduated from University and had no previous jobs make your own conclusion.

The fact is for the Thais that are married to USA citizens it is very easy for them to get an immigrant visa to the USA and USA citizenship. The main qualification is the financial support requirement but this only has to be met once. If you can show 125% of the poverty level for the past three years you can get an immigrant visa to the USA if married to a USA citizen. And that amount can be a combination of your income, your spouses income and the income of anyone else that is willing to sign an affidavit of support. I only wish it was this easy for those of us that are married to thais to get an immigrant visa. Also i only dream about the same permanence of our standing that the thais that immigrate to the USA enjoy.

[simon43]

Here’s something else to chew on; of the 265,849 resident aliens living in Thailand, 81.86% are from China, with only 2.05% from the UK, 0.89% from the US, and 0.49% from Germany.

[\quote]

The figures that I was given are higher than this, but they refer to more recent years. However, the data was very clear on 2 points:

- The number of foreign 'residents' was extremely small when compared to the figure for Thai population or when compared to the number of visiting tourists

- The vast majority of these foreign residents were from Asian countries, with only a very small number from western countries.

So do not over-estimate our contribution to Thailand (in monetary terms). Thailand receives a huge amount of revenue from short-stay tourists and the income from foreign residents is insignificant. (Jaiguru emphasises this in the additional data that he quotes...).

Simon

[idle44mins]

No More Dependent Extension Of Stay If The Host Foreigner Has A Retirement Extension Of Stay Permit

and

Map required

If a foreigner has been granted a extension of stay based on retirement, until now as per 7.19 of the Royal Police Office Order 606/2006 his or her foreign dependent ( Wife or husband, child, father, mother) could get a extension of stay by being a dependent. As of Sept 1st, no more dependent extension of stay permits will be issued if the foreigner has a extension of stay based on retirement. This includes any “grandfather” cases where the dependent applicant had the extension of stay before Sept 1st 2007.

Example. A foreigner husband is 53 years old and has a extension of stay based on retirement. His wife is Japanese and they live together in Thailand. She is 43 years old and now cannot get a extension of stay as a dependent. Even if she was 51 years old, she does not qualify. She must meet her own set of criteria and not piggyback off her husbands retirement extension of stay permit. If she is over 50 years old, she can get a extension of stay based on retirement but must have her own 800K sent from outside the country to her bank account or qualify by having a pension of 65K per month.

Example: A foreigner has two children that are not Thai nationals. They are 16 years old and 12 years old. They can no longer be a dependent to obtain a extension of stay permit by having a father who is over 50 years old. They possibly can get a extension of stay permit or visa on a different criteria. Perhaps they will qualify as a educational extension of stay permit.

This National Police Order will be dated Sept 1st 2007 and will be published in the Gazette in the next 10 days. However this order is effective immediately.

This could be a U-turn next week but the odds are very high, this will continued to be the new law and interpretation.

If you are applying for the extension of stay based on retirement. You now need to provide a map from Immigration to your house.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Please tell me where I can find this information..............if it is the police order (attached to the article on the ThaiVisa.com homepage): a dependent visa is still allowed and a map is only required for the applicants of an extention of a non-immigrant B (icm WP).

[JaiGuru]

The most recent data I could find (fiscal year 1999) shows 94,616 female and 171,233 male resident aliens living in Thailand. Of the preceding 5 or so years, the number was rather flat; no big trend up or down. I was surprised to see males outnumber females at only 2 to 1; I must travel with the wrong crowd. US and Japanese males outnumber US and Japanese females at over 3 to 1.

[...]

Here’s something else to chew on; of the 265,849 resident aliens living in Thailand, 81.86% are from China, with only 2.05% from the UK, 0.89% from the US, and 0.49% from Germany.

Sources?

AFAIK those numbers refer to Bangkok ONLY not to the whole of Thailand.

250,000 Chinese, 30,000 Japanese, 100,000 Indians, 6,000 Americans, 45,000 Europeans, 15,000 Taiwanese, 7,000 South Koreans, 6,000 Nigerians, 8,000 people of Arabic speaking countries, 20,000 Malaysians, and 4,000 Singaporeans.

The vast majority of the females are Chinese, Indian and Malaysians.

I really don’t understand the paranoia of posting links on this forum so I refrain from doing so, but the information you seek can easily be found on the website of the National Statistical Office, Ministry Of Information and Communication Technology, Thailand. It *really* is easy, I promise.

Without regard to as far as you know, the numbers do indeed refer to the resident aliens in Thailand, not just Greater Bangkok.

And your numbers seem a bit off; the census reports: 217,135 Chinese, 2,650 Japanese, 6,258 Indians, 2,355 Americans, 1,764 UK, 1,292 Germany, no listed Taiwanese, 553 Koreans, no listed, and so on... Google is a wonderful thing.

Additionally, you're off on your assertion of the vast majority of the females being Chinese, Indian and Malaysians, but you'll find that out when you do the research.

And while we're quoting statistics; the average monthly income in Greater Bangkok per household (3.2 persons) is 24,690 THB as of the year 2000.

And the average monthly income for the whole of Thailand (Greater Bangkok included) is still the 7700 Baht I mentioned several times already...

And the data is from the latest Bank Of Thailand release, Q1 2007.

According to the data from Thailand’s National Statistics Office, the average monthly income for the entire kingdom per household (3.6 people) was 12,167 THB. While it’s true that if you divide my reported 24k THB or so by the average household size of 3.6 people, you may get something around 7K, I find it difficult to believe that all 3.6 members of the average Greater Bangkok household would be wage earners. Thus, I should think the average wage per wage earner is higher.

My recollection is that according to TAT, international tourists spend on average about 3,500 THB per day. There must be quite a few doing it on the cheap as most people I know spend considerably more.

The usual old considerations are as true as always: the TAT estimates are based on traceable spendings, ie hotels, restaurants in the tourist areas, tourists attractions etc and from the data the tourists agencies themselves feed the TAT with.

MOST of the typical Western and other rich Asian tourists's spending doesn't end up in those stats. ALMOST ALL of the typical sex tourists' spending doesn't up in those stats as well.

Sex tourists don’t stay at hotels, eat at restaurants, or visit any attractions? Wow!! That’s hard to believe!!

I couldn’t find any statistics on how much resident aliens spend each month, but I think this forum speaks for itself; there are a few posters with lofty budgets of 100k THB per month (3,226 THB per day), but most seem to wonder how they are going to spend 65k THB per month (2,096 THB per day), grouse about why should they have to bring in so much money when the cost of living is so cheap, or as a recent post in this thread mentioned a farang and his Thai wife figuring out how they’re going to spend only 40k THB per month (1,290 THB per day).

Do a simple back of the envelope calculation of JUST the typical setup costs of most of the long staying folks here (condo or house+car+motorbike) and multiply for JUST their number in Bangkok (which is very likely to be far less than the total in all the rest of the country) and you will be stunned... And then consider on average how many Thai citizens are they most probably supporting outright and how many are they periodically "helping out" and NOW add their own living cost (just think about the cost of the red tape)...

I really do understand your argument, but all I can say is of the expats I know in LOS, owning a condo or house+car+motorbike is not typical

[lopburi3]

Please tell me where I can find this information..............if it is the police order (attached to the article on the ThaiVisa.com homepage): a dependent visa is still allowed and a map is only required for the applicants of an extention of a non-immigrant B (icm WP).

As stated in post one - this is a new directive/change effective September 1, 2007 and has not yet been officially published but is now policy.

[JaiGuru]

Those numbers come form the statistical office of thailand and are supposedly for the whole kingdom but are for 1999. According to the BBC article that stated there are 41,000 british retirees residing in thailand this would mean these numbers are multiplied by many times over.

The original question was regarding “resident aliens.”

The data is a few years old, but it’s also entirely possible that 41k left the UK to retire to LOS, but a much smaller number made it on the books as resident aliens. Maybe they’re teaching English illegally and trying to fly under the radar, maybe some are visa runners, maybe some took off to Cambodia, and so on...

[phuketrichard]

what is the max overstay payment????per year

heheheh good one, 20,000 baht maximum

BUT if your caught up in some sort of a round up in bar check or have an accident and they want see your passport and your overstayed then its off to jail ( with all the Cambodians and Burmese) then deported.

I agree that this is taking thailand backwards again. For years i have been waiting to see a sign at the airport,

"Welcome to thailand, please deposit your money here and have a safe flight home"

Edited September 3, 2007 by phuketrichard

[wolfmanjack]

[\quote]

The figures that I was given are higher than this, but they refer to more recent years. However, the data was very clear on 2 points:

- The number of foreign 'residents' was extremely small when compared to the figure for Thai population or when compared to the number of visiting tourists

- The vast majority of these foreign residents were from Asian countries, with only a very small number from western countries.

So do not over-estimate our contribution to Thailand (in monetary terms). Thailand receives a huge amount of revenue from short-stay tourists and the income from foreign residents is insignificant. (Jaiguru emphasises this in the additional data that he quotes...).

Simon

Give us an approximation ? 300,000 ? resident aliens ? 400,000 ? Give us an approximation.

Also does this number represent only those that are registered at the local immigration offices ? How many of us are living here using the tourist visa ? how many are living here on multiple entry visas? Over half of the falangs i know that are living here are fed up with the local immigration officials and use multiple entry visas, myself included.

If there are 500,000 of us then we would need to spend 900,000 per year to equal what the tourism industry brings in. Not to mention the possibility that these tourist numbers more than likely include most of us that live here. I leave thailand 4 or 5 times a year and many living here do so much more often. On the other hand there are many that never leave.

To put it in a nutshell it is almost impossible to gauge how much of an impact we have on this country. Personally i brought 5 million baht with me when i came all of which has been spent. This does not include the money i spend to live every month. How much is brought in the first year that people move here to get set up ? None of this is taken into account by immigration.

I admit that we are not as important as the tourist trade and that if we all left it would not destroy thailand but I would still not admit that it is insignificant.

What does all of this have to do with the population of thailand anyway ? I am confused by your comparing the number of alien residents with the total population of thailand. Even if we represented 50% of the total population we can't vote. In my opinion if we numbered in the 10's of millions then it would be more of a reason to get rid of us. It would be perceived as foreigners taking over thailand.

The point still remains that if they want to get rid of the problems then they can target the countries that are the problems without affecting the rest of us. How many times has it been pointed out that it is up to the discretion of the immigration officer to approve an application or not? If it looks like that particular application is a problem reject it without a blanket ruling.

If you do make a change to the rules be fair to those of us that have been here for years under the old rules. Keep the grandfather clause and give adequate notice of the new rules for those that are making plans. Don't implement a rule before it is even published and give a grace period when it is.

[JaiGuru]

According to the data from Thailand’s National Statistics Office, the average monthly income for the entire kingdom per household (3.6 people) was 12,167 THB. While it’s true that if you divide my reported 24k THB or so by the average household size of 3.6 people, you may get something around 7K, I find it difficult to believe that all 3.6 members of the average Greater Bangkok household would be wage earners. Thus, I should think the average wage per wage earner is higher.

Oops, there's a typo in the above paragraph. It should read:

According to the data from Thailand’s National Statistics Office, the average monthly income for the entire kingdom per household (3.6 people) was 12,167 THB. While it’s true that if you divide my reported 24k THB or so by the average Greater Bangkok household size of 3.2 people, you may get something around 7K, I find it difficult to believe that all 3.2 members of the average Greater Bangkok household would be wage earners. Thus, I should think the average wage per wage earner is higher.