Fired Without Any Notice

[GirllostinLOS]

My friend was fired yesterday without any prior notice. His boss just told him that company dont get enough profit and he cant afford to have too many foreign workers ( have 1 more foreigner in company) and from tomorrow he doesnt need to come to work. They gonna pay him one month salary next month. My friend had a Non B multiple visa from Kuala lampur and work permit, but no contract with the company.

He wants his work permit back ,but his boss doesnt want to give it to him , saying that it must be kept only at the office. Is it right? I thought when somebody's fired, you must bring your work permit to the labor department for cancellation and get some kind of receipt so in case you will find a new job, your new employer can make a new work permit?!

As far as I know if you are fired without any notice, the company must pay you 3 months salary, is it true? Can my friend go to the lawyer or labor department to talk about this case?

Will he have any problems when he's going for visa run to get his last 3 months Non B visa while his work permit was cancelled?

Thank you for any advice!

[El Taco Loco]

He is entitled to 3 months pay plus 30 days notice, so 4 months total. If he was legit, has a wp, etc etc. then he can go to the labor board asap and file a claim. These guys will call his boss while he is at the office and remind him of what the law is.

In any event, good luck.

[El Taco Loco]

Sorry, the b will be canceled and he will be given 7 days...

[melmark]

I thought it was only an extension of stay that would be cancelled with the cancelling of the WP and that it would not affect a multi entry non-imm. B visa?

Melmark

[lopburi3]

The visa will not be effected. He is not on an extension of stay - only they are canceled with loss of work permit.

[donna]

they payout will depend on how long he has been there. there is a very long thread in the jobs section on the same subject so i suggest taking a read of that and you should be able to have a clear picture.

good luck! im going through the same thing myself now.

[Thairish]

The Thai labour laws are online here http://www.thailabour.org/law/thai/code.html

It seems to depend on how long your friend was employed for..

An employer shall pay severance pay to an employee whose employment is terminated, as follow:

1. An employee who has worked for at least 120 consecutive days, but for less than one year shall be paid basic pay for 30 days at the most recent rate of basic pay received by him

2. An employee who has worked continuously for at least one year but less than three years shall be paid basic pay for 90 days at the most recent rate of basic pay received by him.

3. An employee who has worked consecutively for three years but less than six years shall be paid basic pay for 180 days at the most recent rate of his basic pay.

4. An employee who has worked consecutively for at least six years but less than 10 years shall be paid basic pay for not less than 240 days at the most recent rate of his basic pay.

5. An employee who has worked for more than 10 years consecutively shall be paid basic pay for not less than 300 days at the most recent rate of his basic pay.

[Tatsujin]

The Thai labour laws are online here http://www.thailabour.org/law/thai/code.html

It seems to depend on how long your friend was employed for..

An employer shall pay severance pay to an employee whose employment is terminated, as follow:

1. An employee who has worked for at least 120 consecutive days, but for less than one year shall be paid basic pay for 30 days at the most recent rate of basic pay received by him

2. An employee who has worked continuously for at least one year but less than three years shall be paid basic pay for 90 days at the most recent rate of basic pay received by him.

3. An employee who has worked consecutively for three years but less than six years shall be paid basic pay for 180 days at the most recent rate of his basic pay.

4. An employee who has worked consecutively for at least six years but less than 10 years shall be paid basic pay for not less than 240 days at the most recent rate of his basic pay.

5. An employee who has worked for more than 10 years consecutively shall be paid basic pay for not less than 300 days at the most recent rate of his basic pay.

Do these rules apply to ALL employees, including Teachers? Or are there different rules?

Chris

[LivinLOS]

I thought I read in the other longer thread that not only is the above severance required to be paid but that there should also be a period of notice (always / usually one month) as well as the above.

So if they didnt give a months notice then it would be one months notice and one months severance.

I know this may be the rules but I also see Thais hired and fired on an instant basis, even ones in tax paying employment. Is that just the little guy having no leverage ??

[LPCustom69]

Do the reasons one is fired for, have any bearings on severance pay as they do in the west (at least the states)?

I thought I read in the other longer thread that not only is the above severance required to be paid but that there should also be a period of notice (always / usually one month) as well as the above.

So if they didnt give a months notice then it would be one months notice and one months severance.

I know this may be the rules but I also see Thais hired and fired on an instant basis, even ones in tax paying employment. Is that just the little guy having no leverage ??

[onethailand]

I thought I read in the other longer thread that not only is the above severance required to be paid but that there should also be a period of notice (always / usually one month) as well as the above.

So if they didnt give a months notice then it would be one months notice and one months severance.

I know this may be the rules but I also see Thais hired and fired on an instant basis, even ones in tax paying employment. Is that just the little guy having no leverage ??

Without knowing the exact circumstances of the OP's friend, it's kinda hard to say. No contract is already tough as he will have to find a way to prove length of service, but he should be entitled to notice plus severance according to the regulations based on time employed and conditions of employment.

The WP must be shown at the place of work on demand. I'm not sure whether or not it's the employee's responsibility to go cancel it, this is usually done by the company in question though.

As for the Thais, many of them just can't be bothered, or don't really know their rights. Some will use threats to get more money even if they are in the wrong (ie. my husband's elder sister works for Labour Department). But it seems they rarely take a case to the Labour Department unless they are sure they are right, and/or if they have someone knowledgeable to do it for them. And in cases like factory closure, they almost always settle for less than what they are entitled to.

[Rajapruek]

Don't forget your annual leave entitlements.

With regard to work permit copy you should hav a stamp in your passport which contains a reference to the work permit so the fact they didn't return it means little.

Lawyers are not expensive in Thailand so you should get yourself a lawyer which at least demonstrates that you mean business. I believe the lawyer fees should be recoverable in the labor court action if you are successful.

[engrin]

When determining the amount of consecutive days I assume Saturdays and Sundays count even if you don't work them?

[onethailand]

When determining the amount of consecutive days I assume Saturdays and Sundays count even if you don't work them?

Count all days since you were employed, not just working days.

With regard to the stamp in the passport, however, I don't recall any notations made by my visa or entry stamp with regard to my work permit.

[otherstuff1957]

^^^ Most teachers are on 10 month or 12 month contracts. They may get renewed every year, but most contracts are usually written in such a way that the teachers never accrue more than one year's seniority.

As for the WP, I was under the impression that he will have trouble getting a new Work Permit if his old one isn't returned to the Labor Office. In fact I have had two friends who have been unable to officially start new jobs because their old employers refused to cancel or surrender their old Work Permits.

Edited September 10, 2007 by otherstuff1957

[TerryLH]

"They may get renewed every year, but most contracts are usually written in such a way that the teachers never accrue more than one year's seniority."

I don't think this is entirely true. I believe the Labor Dept looks at all this time as 'good' time. They don't allow contracts that try to get around the law.

It's in the Labor law, but I don't have the section at hand. Take a look at the thread Donna referred to earlier. If I'm not mistaken, there is info about this in there.

[AGareth2]

I was fired without notice, and went to the Labour Tribunal. At the hearing the Thai owner of the school produced a document written in Thai with a photocopy of my signature on it. Actualy the document was a photocopy.

The document was a resignation letter.

When asked where was the original, I was told it had been sent to the ministry of education. On going to the said ministry I was informed that they had not received any documentation from the school.

So good luck with the tribunal. I failed because I resigned! LOL

[Manchester]

^^^ Most teachers are on 10 month or 12 month contracts. They may get renewed every year, but most contracts are usually written in such a way that the teachers never accrue more than one year's seniority.

I just want to confirm what another poster has stated. The above statement is incorrect. All years accrue as service regardless of whether they are 1 year contracts or not. i.e 5 years of signing 1 year contracts continually is counted as 5 years service.

[TerryLH]

Labour Protection Act B.E. 2541 (A.D. 1998)

Chapter 1

Section 20. When an employee has not worked continuously because his or her boss had the intention of not permitting the employee to have rights under this Act, regardless of the nature of the employee’s duties and the intervals between the periods of service, all periods of service shall be included for the purpose of calculation of the rights entitlements of that employee.

[Briggsy]

I was fired without notice, and went to the Labour Tribunal. At the hearing the Thai owner of the school produced a document written in Thai with a photocopy of my signature on it. Actualy the document was a photocopy.

The document was a resignation letter.

When asked where was the original, I was told it had been sent to the ministry of education. On going to the said ministry I was informed that they had not received any documentation from the school.

So good luck with the tribunal. I failed because I resigned! LOL

Was this school run by a Bangladeshi man and have a number of branches in shopping malls? This was standard procedure for all his WP holders. First day in the job, can't read a word of Thai, sign 20+ documents, one of which is your resignation should you ever take them to a Labour Tribunal. I don't know if all the schools do it.

[Tatsujin]

Having just left Tharnpanya/British Colombia International School in Thonburi on not so good terms (lol - LONG story), I would think it is common practice on joining most Schools for them to ask you to sign LOADS of documents, all in Thai, so they have their arse's covered when you 'leave'. Their opinions of farang here are generally not good and at best we are tolerated as it makes them money. I have come across only very few Thai's or Thai-Chinese in the Education system that genuinely care for their students, staff or employees, and certainly those that own and run the School I mentioned at the beginning of this post are the worst of the worst. My experiences there were a 'learning' experience for sure and I certainly shall never sign ANYTHING again that I have not had translated personally. Watch your own back, cos no one else will do it for you!

Tats