Flight OG269: At Least 88 Bodies Found At Phuket Airport Crash Site

[Crash999]

This morning, BBC World reported that the plane circled the airport once and then came into land HARD and FAST. In my view, less to do with the training of the pilot and more to do with the mindset of the average Thai when in charge of a vehicle. Any vehicle.

The pilot reportedly wasn't Thai, but let's not let the facts get in the way of our knee-jerk assumptions and prejudices....

[simon43]

It would be nice if this thread could remain on-topic, rather than discussing the pros and cons of pilot training. Until we hear to the contrary, speculation about the abilities/training of the pilots is just that - speculation.

Simon

[dekka007]

It would be nice if this thread could remain on-topic, rather than discussing the pros and cons of pilot training. Until we hear to the contrary, speculation about the abilities/training of the pilots is just that - speculation.

Simon

Agreed. I just had to clarify some points because there is so much misinformation being posted by people that have no experience in aviation that it will confuse those interested in facts.

[Wolfie]

It would be nice if this thread could remain on-topic, rather than discussing the pros and cons of pilot training. Until we hear to the contrary, speculation about the abilities/training of the pilots is just that - speculation.

Simon

Totally agree... further off-topic comments will be deleted.

[Burr]

It would be nice if this thread could remain on-topic, rather than discussing the pros and cons of pilot training. Until we hear to the contrary, speculation about the abilities/training of the pilots is just that - speculation.

Simon

Totally agree... further off-topic comments will be deleted.

I "THINK" the conversation was very informative and I for one was not talking about any airline but about training of Airline Pilots that some people didn't understand.

I hope you won't start deleting what you consider off topic.

Edited September 17, 2007 by Burr

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

A little more information on the specific aircraft involved in the crash. Apparently it is 24 years old. From the International Herald Tribune:

"Many budget airlines use older planes that have been leased or purchased after years of use by other airlines. According to Thai and U.S. aviation registration data, the plane that crashed in Phuket was manufactured and put into use in 1983, and began flying in Thailand in March this year."

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/09/17/...Plane-Crash.php

[mekka]

Terrible tradgedy, my thoughts go out to all involved and theyre families.

Does anyone know what the current situation is at the airport today? have they re-opened it?

I have some friends due to fly back to Australia tonight and they are unsure if this is going to happen or not. Im thinking probably not?

[simon43]

The airport is still closed (at 10.15am). I've just seen some heavy lifting cranes arriving at the airport, presumably to assist in removing the plane wreckage.

Simon

[Burr]

Terrible tradgedy, my thoughts go out to all involved and theyre families.

Does anyone know what the current situation is at the airport today? have they re-opened it?

I have some friends due to fly back to Australia tonight and they are unsure if this is going to happen or not. Im thinking probably not?

I don't think the age of the plane has anything to do with the crash. The pilot should have waited until the weather was better at the airport, what would 10-20 minutes have to do with the rest of your life in a case like this.

[konangrit]

My thoughts go out to friends and relatives of those who passed away and also to those seriously injured in this terrible tragedy. A very sad day indeed, I hope those in ICU all manage to pull through.

[cdnvic]

Terrible tradgedy, my thoughts go out to all involved and theyre families.

Does anyone know what the current situation is at the airport today? have they re-opened it?

I have some friends due to fly back to Australia tonight and they are unsure if this is going to happen or not. Im thinking probably not?

I don't think the age of the plane has anything to do with the crash. The pilot should have waited until the weather was better at the airport, what would 10-20 minutes have to do with the rest of your life in a case like this.

We don't know what happened for sure until they at least get the flight data and cockpit recorders examined.

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

Terrible tradgedy, my thoughts go out to all involved and theyre families.

Does anyone know what the current situation is at the airport today? have they re-opened it?

I have some friends due to fly back to Australia tonight and they are unsure if this is going to happen or not. Im thinking probably not?

I don't think the age of the plane has anything to do with the crash. The pilot should have waited until the weather was better at the airport, what would 10-20 minutes have to do with the rest of your life in a case like this.

In this crash it appears unlikely the age of the aircraft was a contributing factor. Some had asked for information about the aircraft. This was an addition. We still don't know the leasing company. In older aircraft metal fatigue can create a safety issue. In this instance it seems more likely pilot and ATC judgement errors led to the crash but we won't know for sure until the investigation is complete.

Edited September 17, 2007 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[cdnvic]

BANGKOK, Sept 16 (Reuters) - One-Two-Go, the budget airline whose jet crashed on the Thai resort isle of Phuket on Sunday, killing 88 people, was one of the first low-cost operators to spring up in the southeast Asian tourist haven.

One-Two-Go and its parent company, Orient Thai, operate a fleet of six Boeing 747s and seven McDonnell Douglas MD-82s, according to the airline's Web site .

Bangkok-based One-Two-Go opened in December 2003, and operates 168 flights a week, carrying 150,000 passengers a month domestically as well as to Hong Kong and South Korea.

Demand for cheap air travel from locals and foreigners alike has spurred massive expansion in the budget airline sector in the last decade in the region.

Despite a number of crashes and safety scares involving budget operators, especially in Indonesia, analysts say there is no hard evidence to suggest they are more accident-prone than full-service carriers.

In March, the European Union lifted a ban on Thailand's Phuket Air after the company addressed Brussels' safety concerns.

One-to-Go chairman Udom Tantiprasongchai said the MD-82 that crashed at Phuket was being flown by an experienced, foreign pilot. The planes were leased from abroad and were 100 percent insured, he told Thailand's ITV news channel.

"Tomorrow the police will set up an investigating committee to find out what actually caused the accident. What we need to do right now is take care of the injured," he said.

"It will take a week to study the black box."

The flight from Bangkok was trying to land in torrential rain and survivors spoke of turbulence as the plane approached the runway.

Other small operators in Thailand include Nok Air, Thai Air Asia, Phuket Air and Bangkok Airways. More than 12 million people visit Thailand each year, many of them on package tours from Europe.

[ChiangmaiCheers]

A dreadful tragedy, my condolences to all the families who have suffered such a loss.

It is with great anger that I have been reading this topic. Once again, as with the Tsunami and other tragedies that have hit this country, we find ourselves littered with would be experts, all having to show their own importance.

As a retired meteorologist, who was involved in the teaching of meteorology to prospective pilots, I can only urge people to wait for the results of the crash investigation.

This is not a time for speculation. It is a time for us all to register our sadness at yet another tragedy in Thailand.

[Jingjok]

Is it still reported that this a/c was landing 09? The topic has fizzled out with argument over pilot hours... (Nothing wrong with a 250hr pilot from an approved school course being appointed first officer, but don't tell me he/she can be in command before 1,500 hours and a full (unfrozen) ATPL. That's illegal, including in Thailand, is it not?)

Dekka's helpful comments and weather report, show wind from 270 degrees, ie due West (onshore in this case). If the initial reports are true, why was the plane approaching as dead-on downwind as it was possible to do?

Am I missing something here?

[THAILIBAN]

Oh shit..... being out of Thailand at the moment, after flying 1-2-Go 10 days ago to Hat Yai and then continuing to Malaysia, I learned of that horrible disaster just now......

so scary, but as I did fly all of those Thai airlines many times, I was actually sure that IF something bad ever would happen, it would happen to 1-2-Go.

their planes were always so run-down, even inside the cabin....

and I really doubt that their maintenance does always match international standard..... did u ever see one of their 32-year old B-747's ?

now this is probably the end of 1-2-GO....

but so sad for all those people who actually were hoping for a nice holiday and indeed lost their lives.... makes me almost cry right now.... may they rest in peace.....

and in 2 hours I have my international flight with an old B-737 (no, they dont have the new Airbus here from where I depart) of AirAsia Malaysia..... so wish me luck

sorry if my post sounds stupid, I am just emotionally overwhelmed, going online here in the morning in a cybercafe far away from Thailand and reading this news... its like someone hits ur face....

[dekka007]

Dekka's helpful comments and weather report, show wind from 270 degrees, ie due West (onshore in this case). If the initial reports are true, why was the plane approaching as dead-on downwind as it was possible to do?

Am I missing something here?

Speculation: It may have been there was significant weather on the approach to the opposite runway and the crew elected to make an approach on the weather clear side accepting the tailwind component if in performance limits. Again pure speculation no Idea.

[donna]

i just spoke to a co-worker of mine.

a close friend of his was ON THAT PLANE yesterday. he is in hospital with relatively minor injuries. apparently the man in question turned around and the person sitting behind him was on fire.

sorry if too graphic, but its a miracle that this man survived at all.

[catnip]

If any one is in Phuket and has an extra Bible, I bet some of the survivors would be happy to have one or have a visitor read to them. I have done this before. Also, besides being highly traumatized these survivors although having their lives, have no worldly good with them. Simple things mean a lot. The red cross here takes care of getting clothes and ditty bags together, I don't know if they have that in Phuket. So, toothbrushes, toothpaste, underwear (for when they get out) a skirt, t-shirt, trousers, deoderant, whatever means a lot. I'm sure the chaplains are working full time in the hospitals perhaps contacting one of them would be a good way to help out. I do that. The other thing if there is a German resident or Swedish one you know of in Phuket they might have a bible in that language. I regularly carry a German one in addition to English, so you never know. And just listening is a great comfort.

[Crossy]

Lost a good friend Colin Denny, his wife Bee (Sawitree Denny [spelling corrected from previous post]) survived, apparently not critical.

RIP Mate

Edited September 17, 2007 by Crossy

[Jingjok]

Dekka's helpful comments and weather report, show wind from 270 degrees, ie due West (onshore in this case). If the initial reports are true, why was the plane approaching as dead-on downwind as it was possible to do?

Am I missing something here?

Speculation: It may have been there was significant weather on the approach to the opposite runway and the crew elected to make an approach on the weather clear side accepting the tailwind component if in performance limits. Again pure speculation no Idea.

Thanks Dekka, good point. I was not thinking in terms of the huge circuits you guys have to make. Shame though: if you're going to run off the tarmac, it would be preferable to do it into the sea rather than a mountain.

I'm sure I am about to be flamed for speculating: there is no point ... respect for the dead ... 'self-importance' (in a self-important post no less) ... and so on. But what is this Forum for if not chit chat?

[konangrit]

Govt warns Orient Thai on insurance

The Department of Insurance cautioned Orient Thai Airlines this morning that it is fully responsible for compensating victims involved in the crash of Flight OG269 at Phuket, Radio Thailand reported.

News reports have said that Orient Thai has said it carried no insurance on the fatal flight, but promised to compensate Thai victims and their families.

But Radio Thailand's report quoted the Director General of the Department of Insurance, Chanthra Booranarik, as saying Orient Thai Airlines, also known as One-Two-Go Airlines, is responsible for paying for medical expenses and compensation to all victims of the One-Two-Go flight.

Mrs Chanthra affirmed her agency will coordinate in expediting aid to crash victims.

She said regulations were clear: Global civil aviation protocol dictates that airlines must properly insure their aircrafts and passengers onboard.

Orient Thai Airlines is reported to have leased Flight OG 269 from a foreign company, and has procured full insurance for the plane and its passengers, therefore the airline is capable of reimbursing air crash victims for medical treatment and other expenses.

Mrs Chanthra added that if passengers involved in the air crash feel that they are being treated unjustly, they are welcomed to contact the Department of Insurance at 1186, the Radio Thailand report said.

Orient Thai Airlines chief executive officer Udom Tantiprasongchai has also promised to compensate the victims and injured.

Bangkok Post

If the news reports of Orient Thai only promising to compensate Thai victims are true then that is shocking. At least Director General of the Department of Insurance, Chanthra Booranarik has put the record straight that they are responsible for all passengers.

[TAWP]

If any one is in Phuket and has an extra Bible, I bet some of the survivors would be happy to have one or have a visitor read to them. I have done this before. Also, besides being highly traumatized these survivors although having their lives, have no worldly good with them. Simple things mean a lot. The red cross here takes care of getting clothes and ditty bags together, I don't know if they have that in Phuket. So, toothbrushes, toothpaste, underwear (for when they get out) a skirt, t-shirt, trousers, deoderant, whatever means a lot. I'm sure the chaplains are working full time in the hospitals perhaps contacting one of them would be a good way to help out. I do that. The other thing if there is a German resident or Swedish one you know of in Phuket they might have a bible in that language. I regularly carry a German one in addition to English, so you never know. And just listening is a great comfort.

Items and/or basic support might be of value.

But please leave your bibles at home.

[peterpanner]

I worked for a carrier back in Europe, so I had free flights and flew a lot. Each time it rained hard, departing and landing were nightmares. All of you who know so much about flying, you'll know safety is just an empty promise.

And captains DO empty their tanks before crash landings. Seen it 5 times. But this one didn't plan to crash land.

All my sorries to the poor people and families involved.

[ChiangmaiCheers]

Catnip, save for the bible, about time someone started thinking of the victims and survivors. It makes a change from our resident experts, who should know better than continue to speculate. Did nobody ever tell these people that "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"?

[digitalchromakey]

Terrible Disaster....

Does anyone have the latest on when Phuket Airport will reopen?

Was due to fly into Phuket from Penang yesterday at 19:30 with Firefly; flight was cancelled while we were in the departure lounge.

I am now in stuck in Penang and need to figure out whether there will be any flights into Phuket today, or whether I should try and get back via another route.

Any information would be appreciated.

Edited September 17, 2007 by digitalchromakey

[catnip]

Some people in times of great tragedy find comfort in their religion others don't. So, offering something like a Bible is perfectly acceptable. Pushing it on someone is not. Thanks TAWP for your input. I'm not a missionary, just worked a lot of disasters and know that for some it's important. For others talking to a monk or having a basic Buddhist text (like we have in Japan) in the hospitals is a help. Long after the visitors have gone, there are long nights of recovery alone in hospitals and having something to cling to from your foundations can be helpful.

ps let's not make this a bible vs. no bible thumping thread. i am just thinking of what can help survivors.

[george]

Terrible Disaster....

Does anyone have the latest on when Phuket airport will reopen?

Was due to fly into Phuket from Penang yesterday at 19:30 with Firefly, flight was cancelled while we were in the departure lounge.

I am now in stuck in Penang and need to figure out whether there will be any flights into Phuket today, or whether I should try and get back via another route.

Any information would be appreciated.

Phuket Airport to reopen Monday evening

[TAWP]

catnip>> It was just noting that sometimes the most important part is being there and listening. Bringing religious scripture of any kind and beginning to read might have an adverse effect, especially if done against someone of a different faith. But being supportive is always welcomed.

[ChiangmaiCheers]

The National News Bureau Public Relations Department issued the following statement at 10am 17th Sept

The Chairman of the National Disaster Warning Center (NDWC), Dr. Smith Dharmasaroja (สมิทธ ธรรมสโรช), says today’s weather condition is still unsuitable for flight operations.

Mr. Smith comments on a passenger jet of One-To-Go Airline with 123 passengers and five crew members on board that crashed on landing at Phuket International Airport yesterday afternoon, saying the accident was due to fluctuating weather. He says all airports in Thailand have to deal with unconditional weather during the past few days because of the southwest monsoon over the Andaman Sea, southern Thailand and the Gulf of Thailand. He therefore would like pilots to take more precaution while deciding to land or take-off the airplanes during this period.

Meanwhile, the Airports of Thailand (AOT) is expected to allow Phuket International Airport to resume its operation at 17:00 hours today.

It seems even the powers that be speculate.