Police Volunteers

[wcr]

If you are doing voluntary work to help the Thai's do you think the Police are going to arrest you?

Allow me to refresh your memory with the following:

Tsunami volunteers warned: get work permits

PHUKET: Foreign volunteers assisting in tsunami-related charity work are required to hold work permits, regardless of whether they are being paid for their efforts or not.

Sayan Chuaiyjan, head of the Phuket Provincial Employment Service Office [ESO], told the Gazette yesterday that there could be no exceptions and that his office would begin to enforce the regulations soon – possibly in March.

“There can be no exceptions. Work is work, even if it is for charity,” he said.

He urged relief workers to apply for work permits, adding that those working for recognized charitable organizations would find them easy to obtain.

“They can just present a document certified by the charity organization they work for and we will issue them with work permits, then they will be able to work legally,” he said.

He pointed out that any foreigner caught working with out a work permit is liable to hefty punishment.

“If our officers, police officers or immigration police learn [of foreign volunteers] who don’t have work permits, the maximum penalty is three years in jail, a 30,000 baht fine [or both],” he warned.

“We did not enforce this law too rigidly [in the immediate aftermath of the tsunami], because we knew that everyone wanted to help out.

“But now that the situation is returning to normal, we will have to start taking it more seriously,” he said, adding that a crackdown could begin as early as next month.

Phuket Vice-Governor Winai Buapradit, who is charged with overseeing work permit procedures in the province, agreed with the ESO stance and said that the law needed to be enforced both in Phuket and throughout Thailand.

“Now that the post-tsunami relief operations are slowing down, they should have work permits to continue working. Otherwise, government officials will have no idea what they are actually doing here – and this could result in trouble in the future,” he said this morning.

Brought to you by:

The Phuket Gazette

Yes, fine, so The Phuket Gazette quote some minister. DID IT HAPPEN?

[sriracha john]

Thank you for your replies, wcr. Thank you also for originating one of the original threads on this topic in a very candid manner. Your views and others at that time expressed a lot of the same misgivings on the TPV that are being expressed here 3 and half years later:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6592

It seems not much has changed and I would encourage all readers of this thread to read the above cited thread as well.

Edited October 4, 2007 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

I will try and answer that one for you Jimmyd as I too am a member of the FPV. Like many volunteer groups we are exempt from the need of a workpermit, we are issued with an ID card that covers the Soi 9 Police Station.This is not just a police thing, if you go to bristols music bar on I think Sundays whoever plays is exempt a work permit as they are raising funds for charity but they have applied for this!. I would class our work as more like that of a Citizens Advice than police. I find the job rewarding in that we are in direct contact with both tourists of all nations and ex pats, the reward comes from seeing them leave with a problem solved. The only thing I dont like is the Black Gear!! but maybe we can change that.

Might we ask who specifically authorized this special exemption from the work permit requirement that is in place for all foreigners working in Thailand, either as paid workers or volunteer workers?

Has the Labour Ministry provided their written authorization for this exemption from their requirement?

As regards the FPV we are authorised on a trial period from local goverment at Chonburi, certainly nothing special about it and I dont think that is what this post is about, its about do we do a wothwhile job. I think we do as do the many people who have walked into Soi 9 and seen someone they can ask for advice allbeit wearing a black shirt ( I really do hate them and I dont even have dandruff! then again I dont have any hair either )

Thank you for your response, however, I'm not questioning whether the work is worthwhile or not.

I'm questioning the specific legality of being exempted from the work permit requirements that everyone else must comply with in Thailand.

There are countless foreigners who would very willingly volunteer on a regular basis in any number of worthwhile causes, but are impeded from doing by the endless bureaucracy involved in getting work permits from the Labour Ministry. Now if this organization is specifically exempted from the stringent requirements demanding work permits (eg. failure to comply is cause for deportation), then I would expect there would be specific written authorizations and that the Labour Ministry co-authorizes these specific exemptions for the members of this organization.

Do you possess such authorizations individually or have you witnessed a group exemption letter that authorizes all of you to work without a work permit? If so, might we inquire as to who signed off on it and from which department of the government they represent?

I am a Foreign Police volunteer and as such am based solely in Pattaya police station, Soi 9....snip...I hope you now understand how we are fulfilling our promise to help farangs/foreigners, and at the same time relieving some of the workload of the police.

You're the perfect person to answer my question then, having direct experience. Are you required to have a work permit to do your volunteer work in Thailand or are you exempted from that requirement?

Let me address the WP thing. As well as being a FPV I am also a member of Rotary and I have a WP for neither, although I do have a WP but for my business.

If you are doing voluntary work to help the Thai's do you think the Police are going to arrest you? I have been a Rotarian for several years. My club is member of Rotary International as are all Rotary Clubs. Can you imagine the uproar internationally if the Immigration Police rounded up 10 Rotarians for working when doing volunteer working helping poor Thai families?

The problem comes when someone sings in a bar every night, or week and says its for raising money for charity.

If you wish to help by doing volunteer work, may I suggest you join something like Rotary or Lions Club. These are international organisations and you are very unlikely to ever get into problems.

Can we presume then that basset misspoke above when he said that FPV have been granted an exemption from the requirement for work permits "from the government in Chonburi," when in actuality no such specific exemption has been granted?

If you choose to work without either a work permit or without a specific exemption from the work permit requirement granted, in writing, by the Labour Ministry is entirely up to you...

I don't think I would ever want to jeopardize my situation here. It has nothing to do with "logic" or what "common sense" should indicate to any of us. Knowing that my presence here could all come crashing down due to non-compliance with an admittedly ridiculous rule precludes me from doing so.

Edited October 4, 2007 by sriracha john

[ovenman]

If you are doing voluntary work to help the Thai's do you think the Police are going to arrest you?

Allow me to refresh your memory with the following:

{article snipped}

Yes, fine, so The Phuket Gazette quote some minister. DID IT HAPPEN?

Dunno. Perhaps more to the point, did this ever happen?

George, what you say about work permits is not true. You can get special dispensation from the Thai Labour Ministry to do voluntary work without a work permit. I am a member of Pattaya City Expats Club and there are about 30 of us volunteering to teach English to school kids in Pattaya schools as well as getting involved with giving City Hall employees and local Thai newspaper reporters practice at speaking and listening to English to add to the lessons they are recieving. We are all in the process of getting approved and being issued with the notice from the Labour Ministry in Chonburi.

Do you have this exemption notice from the Labour Ministry in Chonburi?

[wcr]

Thank you for your replies, wcr. Thank you also for originating one of the original threads on this topic in a very candid manner. Your views and others at that time expressed a lot of the same misgivings on the TPV that are being expressed here 3 and half years later:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6592

It seems not much has changed and I would encourage all readers of this thread to read the above cited thread as well.

My god srircha john, what a memory you have. And what a nice stroll down memory lane for me I noticed I put myself down as a yank in that thread. Don't know how that happened.

Anyhow, that was over 3 years ago now. I personally felt uncomfortable with the set-up of the TPV's at that time, and frankly my opinion hasn't changed. I feel much more comfortable with the FPV's working in the police station and that is why I got involved with them. Each to their own I guess?

[sriracha john]

Thank you for your replies, wcr. Thank you also for originating one of the original threads on this topic in a very candid manner. Your views and others at that time expressed a lot of the same misgivings on the TPV that are being expressed here 3 and half years later:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6592

It seems not much has changed and I would encourage all readers of this thread to read the above cited thread as well.

My god srircha john, what a memory you have. And what a nice stroll down memory lane for me I noticed I put myself down as a yank in that thread. Don't know how that happened.

Anyhow, that was over 3 years ago now. I personally felt uncomfortable with the set-up of the TPV's at that time, and frankly my opinion hasn't changed. I feel much more comfortable with the FPV's working in the police station and that is why I got involved with them. Each to their own I guess?

Probably because it is such a much more reasonable program when compared to TPV... and probably why it hasn't received the amount of adverse attention that the TPV has generated... and probably why, in this thread with the exception of the work permit issue, it's not been questioned to the extent that TPV has... and probably why the OP was all about the TPV in the first place.

[sriracha john]

An informative historical review of some of the farang police threads in Pattaya:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13438

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=93686

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=121877

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=100058

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=142767

--------------------------

And interesting threads from other areas of Thailand:

Samui farang police threads:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=126666

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=115825

Chiang Mai farang police threads:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=46636

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=62122

Edited October 4, 2007 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

A bigger issue for me would be the professionalism and judgment involved with wearing something "as a joke" while in the performance of doing one's work in an official capacity, particularly when by doing so, it would justifiably raise serious questions in the public at large as well as apprehension and suspicion in the hundreds of tourists who aren't in on "the joke."

Edited October 4, 2007 by sriracha john

[HarryHacker]

To his credit, WCR has been very clear in his responses, if I recall correctly and please correct me if I’m wrong, he was a Tourist Police volunteer but was quite dismayed by their lack of professionalism and left that particular group early on after he joined. I also understand he was a policeman back in Farangland. I personally have no problem with WCR doing what he is doing now for the ‘real’ police in Soi 9, manning a desk in the police station, just as long as it’s with the full backing of the labor ministry.

On the other hand, the TPV have had a bad reputation from the fellow farangs right from the start, this is due to their total lack of professionalism and just too many unanswered questions.

[torrenova]

My tak eon it is that their most useful asset is their language skills and their ability to act as a buffer between the tourists and the authorities. To see them as a more honest form of law enforcement is ridiculous. Law breaking as the OP saw should be punished by the regular police and they have very little interest in doing so.

My fears for the TPV are that some amongst their ranks will continue to abuse their power. Recent accusations against Thais threatening westerners with the threat of "I am a tourist police volunteer" seem to be used by people demanding money with menaces. Westerners are apprehensive of Thai men in many situations and not unreasably so given their tendency to resort to violence as the first option. Couple this with some real or fake power of officialdom and you have a frightening scenario for tourists who need no further reason to find another holiday destination at the present time.

[Mobi]

I have two confessions to make.

Firstly I confess that I am surprised and delighted that this thread has managed to stay open so long and has attracted so many contributions – including for the first time, as far as I am aware – from some farangs who are actually ‘working’ as Foreign Tourist Police. This is most welcome and well done Thai Visa for finally allowing a reasonably adult discussion on this touchy subject. Long may it continue.

My second confession is that despite SJ’s assumption to the contrary, I have to admit that I had no idea that there are in fact two types of volunteer police – namely Thai and farang and that they had different functions. I previously assumed that they were all part of the same ‘force’ so to speak, and that some were farangs and some were Thais. I now know better, and thanks for the clarification. I am obviously getting old and very dim.

Now to a few comments.

As previous stated, the big problem in policing tourist areas such as Pattaya is the lack of Thai police who speak English. In a country, which can no longer be classed as poor, and which has a major international tourist industry, it is mind boggling that the powers to be can’t ‘fast track’ graduate policemen through decent English courses and assign them to areas such as Pattaya and Phuket where their language skills could be put to proper use. But though Thailand is not poor, it is still very much 3^rd world, and as such, this sort of thing is just wishful thinking.

So - enter the Foreign Volunteer Police assistants to fill the gap left wide open due to lack of language skills by the indigenous constabulary.

I have read with interest the sort of functions performed by the FVP. Much of this work is carried out at Soi 9, and is in the nature of “Police Liaison’ duties. I can see the need, and have no doubt that it is of benefit, but I question why the volunteers that carry out such functions have to be called police and why to they wear uniforms. Surely a more apt title would be “foreign liaison volunteer” or “Help /information volunteer” or something similar? And rather than a uniform, surely a badge or a special Photo/ID Card pinned to the shirt would be sufficient?

I can offer possible reason as to why it is preferable to call them police and put them in uniforms. If they didn’t – they wouldn’t get many volunteers. After all who wants to be a “liaison Volunteer”? But, as we all know there are many farangs out there who are delighted answer the call to be a policeman.

As for the ‘other duties, we have been told about – breaking up fights, pulling people from fires, entrapping illegal prostitutes etc. Well I have to say that IMHO, farangs have absolutely no business getting involved in such matters, and I question whether there is any other country in the world that would permit aliens to carry out such tasks .

Having said all that, I can see that there are some dedicated farangs who do indeed perform a valuable service – even if they are a bit starry eyed about being cops in their black shirts – and long may they continue, as we never know when we may need them.

But lets not kid ourselves – this is a messy, unsatisfactory, third world solution to a problem that could be far better dealt with by other means.

BTW the point about needing a work permit to work for charity is the fact that if a farang does it for nothing, he/she is depriving a Thai from doing for a salary.

And how many times have we heard the statement: ‘If the authorities enforced such and such a law… there would be an international outcry etc. etc…..’

When are you going to learn that they couldn’t give a toss about international outcries, and if it suited their purpose they would shut down every charity in the country?

[wcr]

To his credit, WCR has been very clear in his responses, if I recall correctly and please correct me if I’m wrong, he was a Tourist Police volunteer but was quite dismayed by their lack of professionalism and left that particular group early on after he joined. I also understand he was a policeman back in Farangland. I personally have no problem with WCR doing what he is doing now for the ‘real’ police in Soi 9, manning a desk in the police station, just as long as it’s with the full backing of the labor ministry.

On the other hand, the TPV have had a bad reputation from the fellow farangs right from the start, this is due to their total lack of professionalism and just too many unanswered questions.

Correction. I never officially became a TPV. I did go to WS on several occasions to do on the job training. I was sent on patrol without an ID card or back-up. I felt vulnerable, and uncomfortable. I won't open up old wounds as one poster here and I had some runs in about this subject on the board and away from the board. I don't want that to start again.

I was a police officer in London, including some specialist experience, which I thought could be useful to the Thai police also and I would have been happy to help out in that area. And it would have also benefited the general public here in certain situations. However I won't push myself onto them unless asked to do so. My last 2 years in the police I was a training officer. I am happy to assist the Thai Police and volunteers IF ASKED to do so with any training they may think I can help in. I believe this should be requested and not forced.

[Prakanong]

To his credit, WCR has been very clear in his responses, if I recall correctly and please correct me if I'm wrong, he was a Tourist Police volunteer but was quite dismayed by their lack of professionalism and left that particular group early on after he joined. I also understand he was a policeman back in Farangland. I personally have no problem with WCR doing what he is doing now for the 'real' police in Soi 9, manning a desk in the police station, just as long as it's with the full backing of the labor ministry.

On the other hand, the TPV have had a bad reputation from the fellow farangs right from the start, this is due to their total lack of professionalism and just too many unanswered questions.

I agree with you - volunteers based at the police station would be a great help in times of stress.

Volunter's on the street - well you have to question some of their motives.

Do they like para-military uniforms?

Have they a full policebackground check at home ie in the UK the full one and not just spent convictions?

Are they doing it for access to something to benefit their business rather than altruism?

The questions go on - how many of these people voluntered in their home countries for similar activities?

[begsaresponse]

To his credit, WCR has been very clear in his responses, if I recall correctly and please correct me if I'm wrong, he was a Tourist Police volunteer but was quite dismayed by their lack of professionalism and left that particular group early on after he joined. I also understand he was a policeman back in Farangland. I personally have no problem with WCR doing what he is doing now for the 'real' police in Soi 9, manning a desk in the police station, just as long as it's with the full backing of the labor ministry.

On the other hand, the TPV have had a bad reputation from the fellow farangs right from the start, this is due to their total lack of professionalism and just too many unanswered questions.

I agree with you - volunteers based at the police station would be a great help in times of stress.

Volunter's on the street - well you have to question some of their motives.

Do they like para-military uniforms?

Have they a full policebackground check at home ie in the UK the full one and not just spent convictions?

Are they doing it for access to something to benefit their business rather than altruism?

The questions go on - how many of these people voluntered in their home countries for similar activities?

Speaking for myself as an FPV in Soi 9 I simply did not have the time to become a Special Constable in the UK. My employment forbade me from doing so.

So now I am retired I have the time,and the freedom from employer constraints to do so.

begsaresponse

[Basset]

I have two confessions to make.

Firstly I confess that I am surprised and delighted that this thread has managed to stay open so long and has attracted so many contributions – including for the first time, as far as I am aware – from some farangs who are actually 'working' as Foreign Tourist Police. This is most welcome and well done Thai Visa for finally allowing a reasonably adult discussion on this touchy subject. Long may it continue.

My second confession is that despite SJ's assumption to the contrary, I have to admit that I had no idea that there are in fact two types of volunteer police – namely Thai and farang and that they had different functions. I previously assumed that they were all part of the same 'force' so to speak, and that some were farangs and some were Thais. I now know better, and thanks for the clarification. I am obviously getting old and very dim.

Now to a few comments.

As previous stated, the big problem in policing tourist areas such as Pattaya is the lack of Thai police who speak English. In a country, which can no longer be classed as poor, and which has a major international tourist industry, it is mind boggling that the powers to be can't 'fast track' graduate policemen through decent English courses and assign them to areas such as Pattaya and Phuket where their language skills could be put to proper use. But though Thailand is not poor, it is still very much 3^rd world, and as such, this sort of thing is just wishful thinking.

So - enter the Foreign Volunteer Police assistants to fill the gap left wide open due to lack of language skills by the indigenous constabulary.

I have read with interest the sort of functions performed by the FVP. Much of this work is carried out at Soi 9, and is in the nature of "Police Liaison' duties. I can see the need, and have no doubt that it is of benefit, but I question why the volunteers that carry out such functions have to be called police and why to they wear uniforms. Surely a more apt title would be "foreign liaison volunteer" or "Help /information volunteer" or something similar? And rather than a uniform, surely a badge or a special Photo/ID Card pinned to the shirt would be sufficient?

I can offer possible reason as to why it is preferable to call them police and put them in uniforms. If they didn't – they wouldn't get many volunteers. After all who wants to be a "liaison Volunteer"? But, as we all know there are many farangs out there who are delighted answer the call to be a policeman.

As for the 'other duties, we have been told about – breaking up fights, pulling people from fires, entrapping illegal prostitutes etc. Well I have to say that IMHO, farangs have absolutely no business getting involved in such matters, and I question whether there is any other country in the world that would permit aliens to carry out such tasks .

Having said all that, I can see that there are some dedicated farangs who do indeed perform a valuable service – even if they are a bit starry eyed about being cops in their black shirts – and long may they continue, as we never know when we may need them.

But lets not kid ourselves – this is a messy, unsatisfactory, third world solution to a problem that could be far better dealt with by other means.

BTW the point about needing a work permit to work for charity is the fact that if a farang does it for nothing, he/she is depriving a Thai from doing for a salary.

And how many times have we heard the statement: 'If the authorities enforced such and such a law… there would be an international outcry etc. etc…..'

When are you going to learn that they couldn't give a toss about international outcries, and if it suited their purpose they would shut down every charity in the country?

Morning All,Mobi I agree with most you have said about the FPV and think we would look a lot more user friendly without the uniform, Grey slacks, white shirt and name card would be fine. As regards the WP this can be debated forever, has the moderator checking us now got one!!! do the ladies from the PILC have one when they work in the Fountain of Life, I think common sense prevails as regards do you need one or not. So back to Soi 9 we are at present on a 6 months trial if after that we are still there those of our group who are ex teachers will start the job of English lessons to Thai Police. Since we started a few months ago there has been a vast improvement in the attitude of the Thai police towards Farangs and I am sure that will continue. We all accept the fact we are not Police and are there to help, give advice and direct people to the right person to solve there particular problem.

[Mobi]

Morning All,Mobi I agree with most you have said about the FPV and think we would look a lot more user friendly without the uniform, Grey slacks, white shirt and name card would be fine. As regards the WP this can be debated forever, has the moderator checking us now got one!!! do the ladies from the PILC have one when they work in the Fountain of Life, I think common sense prevails as regards do you need one or not. So back to Soi 9 we are at present on a 6 months trial if after that we are still there those of our group who are ex teachers will start the job of English lessons to Thai Police. Since we started a few months ago there has been a vast improvement in the attitude of the Thai police towards Farangs and I am sure that will continue. We all accept the fact we are not Police and are there to help, give advice and direct people to the right person to solve there particular problem.

Bassett,

I wasn't suggesting for one moment that you will have a problem with your lack of work permit. I'm sure you will all be fine, as will all the folks who work for charities in Thailand.

But never forget that TIT, and you can never be 100% sure about anything, and 'international outcries' have little meaning, except to those farangs who delude themselves into thinking that they do, and expect Thailand to react like a western democracy.

Keep up the good work - you sound like you are one of the heroes.

[Prakanong]

To his credit, WCR has been very clear in his responses, if I recall correctly and please correct me if I'm wrong, he was a Tourist Police volunteer but was quite dismayed by their lack of professionalism and left that particular group early on after he joined. I also understand he was a policeman back in Farangland. I personally have no problem with WCR doing what he is doing now for the 'real' police in Soi 9, manning a desk in the police station, just as long as it's with the full backing of the labor ministry.

On the other hand, the TPV have had a bad reputation from the fellow farangs right from the start, this is due to their total lack of professionalism and just too many unanswered questions.

I agree with you - volunteers based at the police station would be a great help in times of stress.

Volunter's on the street - well you have to question some of their motives.

Do they like para-military uniforms?

Have they a full policebackground check at home ie in the UK the full one and not just spent convictions?

Are they doing it for access to something to benefit their business rather than altruism?

The questions go on - how many of these people voluntered in their home countries for similar activities?

Speaking for myself as an FPV in Soi 9 I simply did not have the time to become a Special Constable in the UK. My employment forbade me from doing so.

So now I am retired I have the time,and the freedom from employer constraints to do so.

begsaresponse

Thanks for the reply.

Its my view that those guy's quietly going about the business of helping people outside of the public glare inside the police station are doing a good job and are there for the right reasons.

As to the others.......

[sriracha john]

Firstly I confess that I am surprised and delighted that this thread has managed to stay open so long and has attracted so many contributions – including for the first time, as far as I am aware – from some farangs who are actually ‘working’ as Foreign Tourist Police. This is most welcome and well done Thai Visa for finally allowing a reasonably adult discussion on this touchy subject. Long may it continue.

I wholeheartedly agree. Every one of those threads I cited earlier have been closed, which does nothing to increase the understanding of the issue of this topic.

My second confession is that despite SJ’s assumption to the contrary, I have to admit that I had no idea that there are in fact two types of volunteer police – namely Thai and farang and that they had different functions. I previously assumed that they were all part of the same ‘force’ so to speak, and that some were farangs and some were Thais. I now know better, and thanks for the clarification. I am obviously getting old and very dim.

Not sure what you mean by my "assumption to the contrary," but I, too, was surprised to learn of the two different groups as I was previously unaware of them. I did make the contention that once these distinctions were explained, it quickly became evident to me that FPV was not the direct subject of this thread. That several members have come on and explained aspects of the FPV that it would seem most of us were unaware of is a testament to their higher standing.

Hopefully we are provided some feedback to the plethora of questions raised through numerous member's posts that have gone unanswered.

But never forget that TIT, and you can never be 100% sure about anything, and 'international outcries' have little meaning, except to those farangs who delude themselves into thinking that they do, and expect Thailand to react like a western democracy.

In complete agreement there on the issue of work permits for either group.

Edited October 4, 2007 by sriracha john

[mrbojangles]

Well, i have never been in trouble but in my view if i ever did, it would be comforting to know that there was someone near to help, or point me in the right direction.

It's not what you know but who you know and surely these guys know more Thai Police than i do. You've also got to remember that alot of us guys, are pretty much Thai savvy. As opposed to the tourist who is on his first visit and got into a scrape, which is what the volunteers are really there for.

As for their motives for volunteering, well each to their own. Have you guys never volunteered to help someone out before, with no financial reward? I have

[Jai Dee]

Firstly I confess that I am surprised and delighted that this thread has managed to stay open so long and has attracted so many contributions – including for the first time, as far as I am aware – from some farangs who are actually ‘working’ as Foreign Tourist Police. This is most welcome and well done Thai Visa for finally allowing a reasonably adult discussion on this touchy subject. Long may it continue.

I wholeheartedly agree. Every one of those threads I cited earlier have been closed, which does nothing to increase the understanding of the issue of this topic.

If the discussions continue in the mature and reasonable manner that has been displayed so far, the thread may even be worthy of pinning, so all readers of the Pattaya Forum can be informed.

Well done everybody and thanks for your contributions.

[suiging]

Sorry to harp on.

Still feel duties, responsibilities, and above all powers of all of you guys should be promulgated, endorsed and displayed for all to see at the earliest opportunity.

This would clear up a great deal of misunderstanding.

[h5n1]

For all intents and purposes the farang police do not speak any Thai save for one or two and from what I have gathered, are not fluent. I want to disolve this myth. My hunch is that none can read Thai script not pass Pratom 6 which should be the actual standard for farang police. In fact there are no standards. Fill in the app, get approved by Neils.

I totally agree about the grey slacks, white shirt and name badge - in fact, not calling themselves police would be a huge improvement as they really are not 'police' in any sense of the word - what are they policing and how are they enforcing what they are policing? Helping tourist/s is not police work.

Police given their powers over the general population must be a professional force - period. While I have been bagging on the farangs, it is the local Thais that are very often found to be abusing their powers - which proves the point. I have neven been hassled by any cops in Thailand and often have recd cheery help w/ directions... they are not bad guys.

As I stated all Pattaya need due is enforce its traffic laws, increase revenue and grow the force!

[Basset]

For all intents and purposes the farang police do not speak any Thai save for one or two and from what I have gathered, are not fluent. I want to disolve this myth. My hunch is that none can read Thai script not pass Pratom 6 which should be the actual standard for farang police. In fact there are no standards. Fill in the app, get approved by Neils.

I totally agree about the grey slacks, white shirt and name badge - in fact, not calling themselves police would be a huge improvement as they really are not 'police' in any sense of the word - what are they policing and how are they enforcing what they are policing? Helping tourist/s is not police work.

Police given their powers over the general population must be a professional force - period. While I have been bagging on the farangs, it is the local Thais that are very often found to be abusing their powers - which proves the point. I have neven been hassled by any cops in Thailand and often have recd cheery help w/ directions... they are not bad guys.

As I stated all Pattaya need due is enforce its traffic laws, increase revenue and grow the force!

You are correct h about our standards of Thai speaking, some are very good some bad however we attend Thai lessons every Thursday to try and improve our standards. There is a very good interpreter in the station and we come to the fore when they have a problem with a tourist who does not speak English, ( and there are many ) we have 18 different nationalities many who speak 2 or 3 languages to call on.

[hm1973]

To be honest, there is nothing more for me to say. I have explained what we do and there are those who choose not to believe me and think we are into more sinister things than assisting Tourists. Please see it from my perspective....I have been the target of TPV threads for almost 5 years....yes....5 years. I have said all I can say about the TPV's and these days tend not to get too involved in these sort of threads. Although the FPV's and the TPV's have the same basic objectives, we are different and the TPV's are far more involved in cases and can often influence the decision of Police Officers when dealing with a case in the field. This is often beneficial for the Tourist who may have got him or herself into strife. I cannot explain everything we do....but everything I can explain I have already done so in this and countless other threads about us.

One final thing.......if you want our assistance we will give it to you...if not then tell us not to get involved and we won't.....but if we do help you and you are happy with our service then it was a pleasure to serve you.

Thats my final reply to this thread so continue the discussion if you wish, however I will hope that any abusive posts or posts criticising the Royal Thai Police who monitor this and other sites are dealt with in the appropriate manner.

Howard

[Maestro]

To be honest, there is nothing more for me to say. I have explained what we do...

Thank you, Howard, for the information you have provided... and for your patience.

--

Maestro

[Mobi]

To summarise, there seems little doubt that a preponderance of opinion veers on the side of of :Yes some sort of organised farang volunteer group to help out with tourists in trouble is a good and positive thing,

But farangs in uniform, calling themselves police and patrolling the streets is not something the farang community as a whole welcome. If anything these people are regarded as a bit of a laughing stock.

I do genuinely appreciate the input from all concerned, and at least we have a much better understanding of this subject

Edited October 7, 2007 by Totster

[Totster]

I have reviewed this topic and removed some irrelevant posts.

This thread is very informative with regards to the role and duties of the FPV and the TPV, I for one have a better understanding now.

For this reason it should not be removed as it provides such good information, the majority of posters in this thread have managed to have a sensible discussion and learned something at the same time.

I would like for this thread to remain objective in educating people about the FPV/TPV. Therefore, there are to be NO further posts about specific individuals involved in the FPV/TPV, and any posts critical of them or what they do are not welcome. Please feel free to ask intelligent questions about the role and duties of the two groups, and hopefully someone involved will take the time to answer.

If you have nothing more constructive to add to this thread then do not post. Flaming or abuse will not be tolerated, and will result in suspension.

Thanks to all who have participated so far.

Totster

[sriracha john]

Thank you for re-opening this previously deleted thread.

Keeping this thread in a general, non-personal manner, I would ask for clarification on the following post which never got answered completely by either group. If it got cleared up, I would think it would help any recruiting efforts they routinely initiate as well help the general public regarding these forces:

Thank you for your response, however, I'm not questioning whether the work is worthwhile or not.

I'm questioning the specific legality of being exempted from the work permit requirements that everyone else must comply with in Thailand.

There are countless foreigners who would very willingly volunteer on a regular basis in any number of worthwhile causes, but are impeded from doing by the endless bureaucracy involved in getting work permits from the Labour Ministry. Now if this organization is specifically exempted from the stringent requirements demanding work permits (eg. failure to comply is cause for deportation), then I would expect there would be specific written authorizations and that the Labour Ministry co-authorizes these specific exemptions for the members of this organization.

Do you possess such written authorizations individually or have you witnessed a group exemption letter that authorizes all of you to work without a work permit? If so, might we inquire as to who signed off on it and from which department of the government they represent?

[Jai Dee]

Actually the Pattaya Tourist Police Volunteers (TPV) has a website but there's not much to learn about them there.

The Udon Thani TPV has a very informative website here.

A big thank-you to Howard for his clarification on the role of the FPV.

Edited October 7, 2007 by Jai Dee
additional comment added.

[sriracha john]

Actually the Pattaya Tourist Police Volunteers (TPV) has a website but there's not much to learn about them there.

The Udon Thani TPV has a very informative website here.

Edit: Comments removed pending moderator pre-approval.

Edited October 7, 2007 by sriracha john