Can Employer Keep Foreign Passport?

[faxx]

My girlfriend from the Philippines and a group of 20 Filipino college students will be visiting Thailand next month for a period of six months to work in a resort in the South of the country. Their work is part of an OJT - On Job Training - that is required to finish their hotel school education. They have obtained proper visas and will apply for work permits once here so they will be 100% legal, of course.

However, I was told that once they arrive here they will need to give their passports to their employer and will only be able to get them back once they have completed their job after 6 months. If they would ask for their passport ahead of time, they would need to resign from the job first.

I am not sure if the people in charge of this are aware of how bad this thing is so I am looking at a way of telling them that they have no right to keep the worker's passports or documents at all. They argue that a copy of the pasport will be sufficient as an ID, but of course that is just a scam.

Is there any public documentation available that does say that foreigners do need to be in the possession of their original passport at all times?

I want to approach this problem with diplomacy to make sure the students will keep their jobs and be able to move around freely and with dignity.

[lopburi3]

AFAIK there is no such law. You are required to have photo ID by law. Hotels as a routine keep the passports of people staying with them in border areas and passports are regularly provided to Consulates for visa issue and such.

[percy2]

Hotels as a routine keep the passports of people staying with them in border areas

I never experienced this.

Care to elaborate?

Cheers

[cdnvic]

Many countries take a dim view of surrendering your passport to anyone but lawful authorities. I'd check with the Philippine foreign affairs department on it.

[exgov]

Many countries take a dim view of surrendering your passport to anyone but lawful authorities. I'd check with the Philippine foreign affairs department on it.

This slavery type practice is routinely done to Filipinas, Thais, Pakistanis, Indians. Bulgarians and others who work in Dubai, Bahrain, Saudi. Quatar. All of the Emirates. I would hope that Thailand can rise above this.

[lopburi3]

I never experienced this.

Care to elaborate?

Cheers

All of the hotels I stayed in Hat Yai requested passport and provided a receipt for it. You could talk your way out of it by saying you needed to use it and paying cash in advance but front office would have several drawers full of passports. This was at the case in at least eight different hotels that I have personal experience in that city.

[Pink Mist]

usually the passport is the property of the issuing government, so this practice would be illegal, get her to contact her immigration in fillipines.

[percy2]

All of the hotels I stayed in Hat Yai requested passport and provided a receipt for it. You could talk your way out of it by saying you needed to use it and paying cash in advance but front office would have several drawers full of passports. This was at the case in at least eight different hotels that I have personal experience in that city.

Fairy Nough.

Cheers

[applesple]

For my Opinion, the hotel will provide to apply work permit to them, right?

If yes, then it'll be easier to give them passport as in my job, it's always hard to ask employer to give me a passport, alway apologize. You know who response all fine if any trouble.

And i can say, it's hard to get a work permit as they will give you once 1 month and second 3 months then 1 year. Can you imagine if something go wrong, The process have to renew.

what's you think?

[faxx]

For my Opinion, the hotel will provide to apply work permit to them, right?

If yes, then it'll be easier to give them passport as in my job, it's always hard to ask employer to give me a passport, alway apologize. You know who response all fine if any trouble.

And i can say, it's hard to get a work permit as they will give you once 1 month and second 3 months then 1 year. Can you imagine if something go wrong, The process have to renew.

what's you think?

If you give them the passport, how can you leave the country? Let's say for a day trip to Kuala Lumpur on a day off? Or you get sick and need treatment that is available abroad, only? Just die?

Or how to open a bank account? How to send money to your family via Western Union? There are many more instances where you really do need a passport.

It's very easy to get a work permit, the work permit will not expire when you lose a passport.

[Ray1167]

agree with Bronco. Absolutely nobody has the right to retain a persons passport , except the issuing government.

[Artisi]

I think the simple answer is NO, NO , NO - they can not keep your passport it is a document issued for your safe passage while travelling and further, you are supposed to have it with you at all time while in Thailand or any other country for that matter.

[RickFarang]

There is no legitimate reason for an employer to hold an employee's passport. It sounds too much like the way some stories of sex slavery start out. They hold onto the passport so the victim feels as though she cannot escape.

If your girlfriend gives up her passport, make sure she knows that she can walk out of there any time. And make sure she has somebody in that town that she can contact for help.

[LivinLOS]

For my Opinion, the hotel will provide to apply work permit to them, right?

If yes, then it'll be easier to give them passport as in my job, it's always hard to ask employer to give me a passport, alway apologize. You know who response all fine if any trouble.

And i can say, it's hard to get a work permit as they will give you once 1 month and second 3 months then 1 year. Can you imagine if something go wrong, The process have to renew.

what's you think?

Do I detect a Thai that is happy abusing it s neighbours ??

Let me ask a question.. If someone offered a Thai lady a job in Singapore, KL or Dubai, but the 'agent' insisted that when you arrived you surrendered your passport to them.. Does this sound like a 'safe' arrangement to you ?? One where the employee is 'free' to leave ??

[Aussietraveller]

for an employer to state that you have to surrender your passport to them, and cannot get it back unless you resign, is wrong.

I would never be comfortable surrendering my passport to anyone while in another country.

I would be suspicious of the motives of an employer who insisted on this.

[faxx]

There is no legitimate reason for an employer to hold an employee's passport. It sounds too much like the way some stories of sex slavery start out. They hold onto the passport so the victim feels as though she cannot escape.

If your girlfriend gives up her passport, make sure she knows that she can walk out of there any time. And make sure she has somebody in that town that she can contact for help.

Well, she has me as I live in Thailand and I will not hesitate to help her.

But it's not about helping her when she gets in trouble, but making sure in the first place that her dignity and human rights are respected as well as local laws (they have laws regarding that in the Philippines, too - but nobody plays by them, unfortunately). Probably the people there are good people. It's a resort with a good name and they offer rooms for rather upscale clients who spend over 4000 baht a night. But it still thrills me why they or the responsible party act in such a way.

For example she was required to pass a mandatory HIV test to be accepted for the job. Mandatory HIV test are illegal in the Philippines and they are certainly not required to obtain a Thai visa or a work permit. This is all very questionable.

[britmaveric]

Well not unheard of, just ask the burmese, some of the silly rules they have to follow.

Being illegal has no bearing here since employment is involved. I dare say if you question this practice, you can forget about employment.

Edited October 8, 2007 by britmaveric

[Aussietraveller]

Getting a mandatory HIV test, and having to surrender her passport to her employer does not sit well with me.

Do you have the name of the property that she is going to work for?

Do you know the town?

Can you check it out to see if it is legit?

Perhaps find some Thai Visa members in that town and PM them ask what they know of the place.

It could all be legit, but it does not hurt to ask a few questions.

[faxx]

Getting a mandatory HIV test, and having to surrender her passport to her employer does not sit well with me.

Do you have the name of the property that she is going to work for?

Do you know the town?

Can you check it out to see if it is legit?

Perhaps find some Thai Visa members in that town and PM them ask what they know of the place.

It could all be legit, but it does not hurt to ask a few questions.

I checked it and visited the place in person to see if it was a good place for her. It is a large establishment with upscale pricing that is very popular with European and Asian customers. I do not really expect her to be treated badly, but as previously said, I am trying to find a diplomatic way to tellijng the people that they should respect the rights of the students/workers. As of now, I still have to find out if it is really the employer or the agency/school from the Philippines who does sanction these questionable procedures.

[canadiangirl]

My girlfriend from the Philippines and a group of 20 Filipino college students will be visiting Thailand next month for a period of six months to work in a resort in the South of the country. Their work is part of an OJT - On Job Training - that is required to finish their hotel school education. They have obtained proper visas and will apply for work permits once here so they will be 100% legal, of course.

However, I was told that once they arrive here they will need to give their passports to their employer and will only be able to get them back once they have completed their job after 6 months. If they would ask for their passport ahead of time, they would need to resign from the job first.

I am not sure if the people in charge of this are aware of how bad this thing is so I am looking at a way of telling them that they have no right to keep the worker's passports or documents at all. They argue that a copy of the pasport will be sufficient as an ID, but of course that is just a scam.

Is there any public documentation available that does say that foreigners do need to be in the possession of their original passport at all times?

I want to approach this problem with diplomacy to make sure the students will keep their jobs and be able to move around freely and with dignity.

Wow, what a scam! Kudos to you for doing something about it.

Holding on to your employee's passport in a foreign country is a good way to give yourself a compliant workforce, that's for sure! Since you need the physical document to return home, and it serves as ID, having it in someone else's hands is powerful leverage to ensure you're a "good worker". Jesus. You read so many bad stories that start like this.

But anyways...

I think that the physical document is the property of your government, they're just "lending" it to you so you can get around, so you're not even allowed to give it to anyone else for any lenght of time. I think you're allowed to give it to, say, an immigrant department for a few days so they can stamp a visa, but that's it -- and that's directly connected to immigration, they're not just "keeping it"

[canadiangirl]

Plus, aren't foreigners supposed to have our passports on us at all times in Thailand?

I've never been stopped by cops or immigration when I was in LOS, but in theory, can't they stop you and ask to see your passport/visa? How do they catch all those overstayers, etc?

[Jim Abbott]

Well not unheard of, just ask the burmese, some of the silly rules they have to follow.

Being illegal has no bearing here since employment is involved. I dare say if you question this practice, you can forget about employment.

Absolutely correct, excellent post. The OP wants to "diplomatically" talk to them about her human rights being violated? LOL, try talking to a brick wall or worse.

[Eff1n2ret]

Many countries take a dim view of surrendering your passport to anyone but lawful authorities. I'd check with the Philippine foreign affairs department on it.

This slavery type practice is routinely done to Filipinas, Thais, Pakistanis, Indians. Bulgarians and others who work in Dubai, Bahrain, Saudi. Quatar. All of the Emirates. I would hope that Thailand can rise above this.

Absolutely right.

A few years back I helped out a Philipina girl in Kuwait who had run away from her employer. At that time there were dozens of girls holed up in the Phillipine Embassy in similar straits. I paid for her ticket back to Manila, but she had to wait weeks while the authorities went through some pantomime of trying to get her passport back from her employer, who had gone abroad, and "release" from her contract. The last 6 weeks she spent in a police station and a detention centre.

If the OP's girlfriend's employers are paying her return fare to Thailand they will undoubtedly want to ensure compliance during her stay there, and hanging on to her passport is the most effective way of doing it. She has less to fear than her compatriots in the Middle East, because with his assistance she could easily get another passport and leave the country if the worst came to the worst - in Kuwait they needed an exit visa.

But as another poster has said, if she makes a big issue about it, she can probably forget about the job.

[TerryLH]

Since this is an OJT requirement through a school, have the students talk to their school about this.

Not condoning it, but I'll guess the resort has had problems in the past with workers.

Question for the OP.

Are the students worried about this, or is it just you?

If the school used this resort before, the students may have been told to expect this.

I just re-read the original post and answered that last bit. They aren't here yet, and apparently have been told about the resort holding the passports. I would suggest that if it is the students that are concerned about this, they ask for another location to do the OJT at.

[faxx]

Since this is an OJT requirement through a school, have the students talk to their school about this.

Not condoning it, but I'll guess the resort has had problems in the past with workers.

Question for the OP.

Are the students worried about this, or is it just you?

If the school used this resort before, the students may have been told to expect this.

I just re-read the original post and answered that last bit. They aren't here yet, and apparently have been told about the resort holding the passports. I would suggest that if it is the students that are concerned about this, they ask for another location to do the OJT at.

Yes, the students have been told to expect this, but they have no choice. They are told at gun point to either accept waiving off basic civil liberties or to forget about their entire education. They have paid extremely high fees for 4 years of attending college and if they complain, they will be unable to finish their education and need to start from scratch.

As I originally come from a communist country from Eastern Europe where we battled for freedom for years and were willing to risk out lives for it on a daily basis, I value human rights highly and I do know that civil rights are not tangible.

Just a few hours ago I had another discussion with my girlfriend. I told her she needed to have a passport whenever police would stop her as this is the law in Thailand. She told this to the agent of the employer/school and was given this answer that freaked me out: 'there is no need to leave the resort. You will be provided with a place to stay and food.' Heck, is it 2007 or 1507!?

Edited October 8, 2007 by faxx

[britmaveric]

I don't carry my passport around, as most people here don't. (too much hassle if it gets lost)

Any rate what sort of work will they be doing? Sounds bit like a cruise ship type position - work nonstop and only off a few days of the month. Since this is tied to their uni - I don't see much choice on the matter. So its rather irrelevant the passport issue.

[nonthaburial]

I must admit to hearing warning bells ringing here. As a matter of interest, is this group of 20 students all female ???

[jstumbo]

There is no legitimate reason for an employer to hold an employee's passport. It sounds too much like the way some stories of sex slavery start out. They hold onto the passport so the victim feels as though she cannot escape.

If your girlfriend gives up her passport, make sure she knows that she can walk out of there any time. And make sure she has somebody in that town that she can contact for help.

Well, she has me as I live in Thailand and I will not hesitate to help her.

But it's not about helping her when she gets in trouble, but making sure in the first place that her dignity and human rights are respected as well as local laws (they have laws regarding that in the Philippines, too - but nobody plays by them, unfortunately). Probably the people there are good people. It's a resort with a good name and they offer rooms for rather upscale clients who spend over 4000 baht a night. But it still thrills me why they or the responsible party act in such a way.

For example she was required to pass a mandatory HIV test to be accepted for the job. Mandatory HIV test are illegal in the Philippines and they are certainly not required to obtain a Thai visa or a work permit. This is all very questionable.

How does she even know that she will set foot in that hotel? That is the way human trafficking works. They promise you a job, bring you into the country, keep your passport, and instead of working the job at the hotel, you are sent to some building out in the country locked in and are stuck. If your girlfriend was in a remote area where no one spoke english, and she did not know where she was, she might have a hard time contacting you. And if she could, she would not know where she is anyway.

They had an incedent here in China, where I am right at the moment, where some girls (late teens) were going to a dance school. A real school, with formal dance training. They were sent to work for a while doing dance as part of their schooling. Problem is they sent them to another town to work in a mens club where they would also have to work as prostitutes.

Jim

[jstumbo]

I must admit to hearing warning bells ringing here. As a matter of interest, is this group of 20 students all female ???

No hotels in the Phillipines?

[PeaceBlondie]

I doubt the practice of holding passports of aliens, either customers or employees, is that widespread in Thailand. Even to rent a motorbike, you should be able to leave a copy of your p.p. New employees might surrender their passports for 24 hours or less for a clerk to run it to the authorities to get some license, but even then you'd probably have a receipt. I misplaced my passport once, and now keep it locked up except when I know I need to go out of the country or to Immigration. I always have a full color photocopy of my pp page, visa and extension in my wallet.

The response here to date on this thread shows it's highly unusual for employers in Thailand to hold worker's passports more than just overnight.