Annoyed By Us Immigration Returning From Thailand

[hiromj]

Generalised sweeping insults of whole nations are not acceptable on Thaivisa. If you can't be civil, be quiet.

Sorry i do appologise, but it is a fact that - unfortunatley - the majority of americans have great difficulity reading and understanding basic text. There are obviously many very well educated americans, but unfortunatley they are the minority. I dont mean to insult americans - infact i have total empathy for the many who cant express there opinions through having been sh*t on by there masters.

I hope that if you really feel the way you express yourself, you will have the self respect, of boycotting, and not using any American technology, products or entertainment materials. I hope your point of view will be strong enough to keep you from being a hypocrite, and you can truly show your revulsion at my fellow countrymen difficulty ( which you misspelled) in reading and understanding basic text.

Americans(which you forgot to capitalize) unfortunately(which you also misspelled) will have great difficulties (which you also misspelled) in understanding such strong and determined intellect as you seem to have. Don't ( you also misspelled) take offense if this great display of your character and intellect goes unnoticed, in fact(that's 2 words not one) continue with such a boycott until Americans empathize and apologize (another word you messed up a little on) to you for not meeting your educational and intellectual standards. Personally if you would be so kind as to hold your breath while you are waiting for this, Americans will probably deeply appreciate it.

This is one of the funniest posts that I have read in a long time. Thanks Mellow1. (I sure hope I didn't mispell any words(:-))

[jackspratt]

I hope that if you really feel the way you express yourself, you will have the self respect, of boycotting, and not using any American technology, products or entertainment materials. I hope your point of view will be strong enough to keep you from being a hypocrite, and you can truly show your revulsion at my fellow countrymen difficulty ( which you misspelled) in reading and understanding basic text.

Americans(which you forgot to capitalize) unfortunately(which you also misspelled) will have great difficulties (which you also misspelled) in understanding such strong and determined intellect as you seem to have. Don't ( you also misspelled) take offense if this great display of your character and intellect goes unnoticed, in fact(that's 2 words not one) continue with such a boycott until Americans empathize and apologize (another word you messed up a little on) to you for not meeting your educational and intellectual standards. Personally if you would be so kind as to hold your breath while you are waiting for this, Americans will probably deeply appreciate it.

And for the purposes of the record, mis-spelled is hyphenated

Not according to this....

I prefer this http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/misspelled

It supports my argument

[mellow1]

I also find that customs and immigration can be quite annoying, and it's too bad that things in the world have created this to be so. I find it preferable to being blown up by a bomb though. A little further training in politeness and greater professionalism would not hurt at all. That said, better safe than sorry.

Sorry about the spelling debate, something I normally don't care about. I make spelling mistakes myself all the time. I find it easier to notice when using Firefox browser. If you go to tools- options- advanced, and check mark the box which says "check my spelling as I type", any mistakes will be underlined with a red line. You can then correct your mistakes, and easily detect other peoples mistakes. So when you are critical of other peoples education, you can at least appear to have a better one yourself. Of course for those boycotting American products, due to their perceived stupidity of Americans, this is not an option. Actually I wonder how they even manage to access this forum and the rest of us, without using American innovation. I'm sure they have a perfectly good explanation for that.

[Neeranam]

I was like excuse me??

I see you picked up some pidgin English on your trip.

Neeranam, that is not PIGEON english. It is a North American expression. Things such as "I was like: I'm getting outta here!" or "I was like: Now what?" are used to express the feeling behind their reaction. "I was like: excuse me?" means he was shocked or surprised at what someone did or said.

Damian Mavis

The Columbia Guide to Standard American English. 1993.

pidgin, pigeon (nn.)

These homophones have very different meanings: a pidgin is a special language, using some of the grammar of one language with a vocabulary mainly from one or more other languages; it is never the native language of its speakers but is used as a means of communication for people who have no other language in common. A pigeon is a kind of dove whose sometimes foolishly fearless behavior has given the word a figurative slang use as a name for the naive victim of a confidence trickster or other cheat.

[sbk]

OK, it's time to stop the bickering and return to the original subject of the post please.

endure's open warning stands. Continue in this path of bickering and sweeping derogatory generalizations and this thread will be closed and warnings handed out.

I hope I am being clear enough???

[Dr. Burrito]

I live in thailand most of the year with my Thai wife.In May her and I were going to Seattle as I had some Business there .She was going to stay for 2 weeks, Me longer.It was her second trip to the U.S.,The 1st time she went through Los Angeles alone and had no problem.

When we got off the plane in Seattle we went to Immigration together she went to the non citizens line and I went to the U.S.,The 1st thing out of the agents mouth was who is that girl with you,I responded my Wife,And then he asked me the normally questions and then told me to leave,He then Walked over to the guy Interviewing my wife and the both of them took her to the back room.I waited for about 30 minuets and started to get pissed and asking questions, At that point they had her wait outside and started interagating me. They wanted to know what I did for a living,How much I made,How much I have in the Bank ,Ect.And then they started on about were I meet my wife,How long have we been Married, WHY DID I MARRY SOMEONE SO MUCH YOUNGER !!! They were very aggresive and really a couple of pricks that were feeding off each others questions and insults during the whole intergation. The worse part is that after 2 hours of this Shit when they finally let us go my Wife tells me that the agents were advising her that she was wasting her life with such a old guy ( we are 27 years apart) And that she should find some one here own age. Its sad that the U.S.has become such a unhospitable place why anyone would want visit there is beyond me

My only truly negative experiences with entering the U.S. has been at Seattle as well. I first came to Thailand in 1989 and was here for two months, then returned for another three months later. The 2nd return to the U.S. was via Seattle and they looked through every spec of everything, including a book on Thailand plants as if they were sure to find the heroin I had unwisely brought with me. Seems two frequent trips to Thailand during that period raised red flags about drug smuggling. It seemed to go on forever to me, though I suppose my impatience expanded that in my mind, so I finally became a bit irate. When he asked was I wearing a money belt, I asked them to quickly do a strip search and get it over with. He shooed me on through at that point, but surely logged my name into a computer, flashing forward to 2002 when I was living here full-time, I went though Seattle again via EVA on my way to New York. They opened up and inspected the whole lot, just for old time's sake, then I was on my way. Moral of that story, computer's remind them not to like you if they choose.

As for LAX, I have yet to ever have a problem there of any consequence. On gentleman was asked to search my luggage once due to an answer I had made on the form asking where you had been since departing the U.S. Not realizing they meant since you had started your journey to the U.S., I dutifully filled in all manner of countries, some of them being in the Middle East. As he reviewed my sadly boring luggage, even he was a bit mystified until he further reviewed my form, apologized for its ambiguous nature and politely sent me on my way.

My wife, a Thai national, comes and goes through LAX with and without me. Since the kids are U.S. Citizen's, she uses the U.S. Citizen line and she has never been given a hard time. They are always polite and she is generally through as fast as you can expect. Of course, the hour wait for luggage at LAX usually doesn't make the quick clearing of Immigration that big an advantage.

Dr. B

[DamianMavis]

Doh Neeranam! Looks like we both learned something new about expressions we were not familiar with.

I always get hassled when I go back to Canada either through the States or not. I think they check younger men more frequently, maybe we are the stupid ones more likely to run drugs or something. I don't mind so much but I've never been cavity/strip searched so.... If I go through in a suit I don't have any problems.

This was in Vancouver (when I arrived from Thailand going home to Ottawa) but its an interesting insight into some of these people and shows that they can make alot of personal decisions on the job. I got "randomly" pulled aside along with a handful of non Canadians by a young woman and told to bring my luggage to get checked in a special room. Once in the room another young woman directed me to a third young woman agent at a booth with an xray machine. She had my luggage put up on the table, looked at me, and then said "we'll just put it through the xray machine". Once it was through she asked what electroncis equipment I was bringing back. I listed everything I remembered but TOTALLY forgot about the giant ps3 (the old model not the slim) I had bought in Thailand and was bringing back and would be completely obvious in the xray. She was smiling at me and said "are you sure.....?" I calmly and confidently told her "yes" with no sign that anything was wrong (since I'd forgotten). She just made a funny secret smile and then asked me if I was staying in Vancouver long, I told her I was just passing through to Ottawa and she looked absolutely crest fallen, so disappointed! I was too naive and retarded at the time to realise she was hitting on me. She sent me on my way and the second I stepped out of the "special room" I remembered the ps3, my heart started pounding and I got all sweaty thinking about how I just lied to a customs agent to her face (and she KNEW I was lying) and did something possibly illegal. I was just about to step back into the room to fess up when my intelligence got the better of me and I just left to go to my last flight home. After going over the scenario in my head trying to figure out what just happened I realised she was hoping to ask me out on a date but didnt bother since I was in the country for 2 whole hours and then let me through regardless of my lies. Took me completely by surprise as white women never ever hit on me, actually nobody in Canada hits on me heh. Guess if they like you or dislike you it can make a world of difference.

Now what I have always wondered is.... were the 3 young women working together grabbing young men from the line to help hook up the end girl who was boyfriendless? That will always be a mystery to me.....

Damian Mavis

[PeaceBlondie]

I've told this story before, but here it goes, because it concerns US customs at the border entrance. Normally the INS guy does the encounters at this border point, but he may have been on break, so the Customs Service officer (who worked within the Treasury Dept.) met me. I had lost my Texas driver's license on the trip all the way to the south of Mexico, had never owned a passport, and I had left my retired US military ID at home. The officer looked like my twin brother. I told him I lost my DL in Chiapas, and didn't carry my military ID because the Zapatista army might have thought I was a spy. He sincerely replied with a straight face, "That sounds logical." (as if he hears that excuse every day)

Then he asks where I work. As a career IRS employee, I knew not to spill the beans too quickly.

1. "I work for the government."

2. (Which government?) "Federal."

3. (Which department?) "Treasury."

4. (Which agency?) "I manage tax auditors at the IRS."

5. (Excuse me a minute, sir.) He goes back to his computer for 30 seconds with my federal employee health ID card. Mind you, he and I belong to the same labor union, but I'm management and he's labor.

6. He concludes, "Sir, we're going to treat you as a VIP if you promise not to audit our income tax returns."

My Chinese immigrant friend met me at the end of my trip and commented, "If you had been Hispanic or Asian, you'd still be in Mexico!"

[sriracha john]

If anyone thought that Immigration/Customs/TSA/etc. were already intrusive.... it's going to get to more so. Prepare to be visually stripped-searched...

New airline passenger screening machines

ARLINGTON, Virginia (USA) -- A new type of walk-through security machine will debut at several U.S. airports in the coming days as the Transportation Security Administration tries out the latest in body scanning technology.

It's called "millimeter-wave passenger imaging technology," and it produces a more detailed picture than the metal detectors in use now at airports to screen for weapons, explosives and all things suspicious.

Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix, Arizona, begins using the new machines Thursday -- to be offered as an option for people who are asked to be screened a second time.

Los Angeles International Airport in California and John Fitzgerald Kennedy International Airport in New York are also slated to try the machines. TSA calls this a testing phase and has purchased eight machines, at a cost of $1.7 million.

This is how it works. The passenger steps into a machine where he or she is quickly scanned with radio waves.

Those waves reflect off the body to transmit a three-dimensional image of the passenger that looks like a fuzzy photo negative. A TSA officer studies the image on a screen and looks for unusual shapes that might mean a passenger is carrying something suspicious.

Passengers who are asked to undergo a second screening can choose a pat-down search or the millimeter-wave test.

The TSA says the machines scan a passenger twice, each scan taking less than two seconds. But it takes another minute or two for a screener to review the scans before signaling a passenger to move on.

The TSA demonstrated the screening technology at a news conference Wednesday near Washington.

Ellen Howe, a spokeswoman for the TSA, said the millimeter wave is harmless and "can see more than a magnetometer," which is the first screening machine airport passengers encounter.

"A magnetometer only picks up metal or weapons, so this could see other materials that might be hidden on the body and it also produces an image" rather than just a beep, she said.

Asked if the millimeter wave could detect an object hidden in a body cavity, she said only that the TSA will learn more about the technology as it's tested at U.S. airports.

The TSA has been testing another type of imaging technology called backscatter. This technology came under some fire because it shows very detailed body images -- which led some critics to call it an electronic strip search. So, the backscatter was altered and blurred to show more of an outline of the body.

Howe said privacy will be respected with the new millimeter-wave technique.

"We want to preserve passengers' privacy and make them feel comfortable with trying a technology like this," she said.

A TSA officer will escort a passenger to the machine for the test, but the person looking at the actual body scans will be at a different location and will not see the passenger, the TSA said.

In addition, the scans will have a "modesty filter" to blur out faces, and no images will be saved.

- CNN

================================================================

Below are what the images created by the millimeter-wave test and the backscatter look like. Both of which produce... uhmmm... nud_e-like images of the passengers:

[onethailand]

I am American and I totally agree. My worst customs and immigration experiences have been in the US and it is getting worse. This August I returned for a visit with my two young daughters. The immigrations official was extremely curt to the point of rudeness, and barked orders at my two daughters when one inadvertently touched his fingerprint scanner and the other strayed 2 inches over the line. He was such an ###### that when we were finished my 10 year old asked me, "Daddy, who was that man, he made me afraid!" It was downhill from there as we then instructed to go to an inspection line after getting our bags. We spent about an hour there while the agents debated whether or not Ma Ma dried noodle soup was allowed in the US or not. After confiscating it and telling me I could be fined $500 they determined it was OK and told me I was free to go. Not so fast! When I handed my form to the agent at the final door he noted that I had declared $150 in commercial goods and told me to go back to get inspected. I told him I had already been inspected, and in a very gruff voice basically accused me of lying. Turns out the first inspection was for food only. I then spent another hour while the agents played keystone cops and debated under what classification the goods fell under, finally determining that nothing was owed. Totally unprofessional behavior by almost everyone there. Took 2 1/2 hours to clear. To top it off about 3/4 of the agents have shaved their heads so that the group looks like some kind of Aryan brotherhood reunion. It embarrasses me to see the kind of welcome (or lack thereof) that visitors to my country receive. By contrast, our treatment by Thai customs and immigration was exemplary.

Geez... which airport was this? I've never had any problem at LAX or LAS, but SFO was a bit of a pain once - then again I haven't been back for over a year and I'm likely to go to SFO or LAX next month - if this is the way they treat Americans (I'm American) then I don't dare to think how they treat visitors...

[qualtrough]

I am American and I totally agree. My worst customs and immigration experiences have been in the US and it is getting worse. This August I returned for a visit with my two young daughters. The immigrations official was extremely curt to the point of rudeness, and barked orders at my two daughters when one inadvertently touched his fingerprint scanner and the other strayed 2 inches over the line. He was such an ###### that when we were finished my 10 year old asked me, "Daddy, who was that man, he made me afraid!" It was downhill from there as we then instructed to go to an inspection line after getting our bags. We spent about an hour there while the agents debated whether or not Ma Ma dried noodle soup was allowed in the US or not. After confiscating it and telling me I could be fined $500 they determined it was OK and told me I was free to go. Not so fast! When I handed my form to the agent at the final door he noted that I had declared $150 in commercial goods and told me to go back to get inspected. I told him I had already been inspected, and in a very gruff voice basically accused me of lying. Turns out the first inspection was for food only. I then spent another hour while the agents played keystone cops and debated under what classification the goods fell under, finally determining that nothing was owed. Totally unprofessional behavior by almost everyone there. Took 2 1/2 hours to clear. To top it off about 3/4 of the agents have shaved their heads so that the group looks like some kind of Aryan brotherhood reunion. It embarrasses me to see the kind of welcome (or lack thereof) that visitors to my country receive. By contrast, our treatment by Thai customs and immigration was exemplary.

Geez... which airport was this? I've never had any problem at LAX or LAS, but SFO was a bit of a pain once - then again I haven't been back for over a year and I'm likely to go to SFO or LAX next month - if this is the way they treat Americans (I'm American) then I don't dare to think how they treat visitors...

It was LAX. My feelings exactly as far as visitors, although we know now that a lot of foreigners are avoiding visiting.

And just to make it crystal clear to the forum members here who continue to engage in straw man arguments: If you listen to what the majority of people here are complaining about, it is not the fact that there needs to be inspection, security, etc., it is the rude or unprofessional demeanor of some of the agents that irks many of us. Go back through this thread and you will see a number of posts that mention totally inappropriate comments made by immigration or customs officials.

[onethailand]

It was LAX. My feelings exactly as far as visitors, although we know now that a lot of foreigners are avoiding visiting.

And just to make it crystal clear to the forum members here who continue to engage in straw man arguments: If you listen to what the majority of people here are complaining about, it is not the fact that there needs to be inspection, security, etc., it is the rude or unprofessional demeanor of some of the agents that irks many of us. Go back through this thread and you will see a number of posts that mention totally inappropriate comments made by immigration or customs officials.

Bad news. You're with your daughters and you get treated like this... I travel single, in sweats, and I never get hassled... not at Immigration anyhow. And because I travel with a carry-on I guess they figure I'm not worth the hassle at Customs...

... but now I think I'm going to go through SFO instead... thanks for relating your experience.

[Spee]

he US Custom and Immigration officer noticed a "Thai" visa stamp in my passport, and asked me what I went to Thailand for. I told him "a vacation". His answer was that "nobody just goes for a vacation. They go for sex tourism"

Thank you for this additional evidence. There is no doubt in my mind they harass a good number of single male travelers who travel to Thailand.

Some of these stories seem to be clearly over the top and out of the norm, but IMHO it is important to separate harrassment from directed questions. When someone in this position asks what may seem like a really outlandish question, they are clearly trying to stimulate some sort of targeted response indicative of some profile in their training. It's no different than banter at a poker table. It's business not personal. Depending on the way people react to certain questions, a trained or skilled interpreter can infer a heck of a lot about whether the answerer is lying, hiding something or being honest. And there are other methods to the madness. Thailand, along with other places like China, Romania and Russia are world leaders in media piracy and intellectual property theft. If one gets caught with this kind of contraband, look out. When I was in Japan, young single US military personnel returning from Thailand holidays used to regularly get the third degree from Japanese customs looking for pirated stuff. Woe the person who got caught, because when the Japanese officials got done with them, the military officials then stepped in.

Regardless of all this stuff, all US citizens have constitutional rights against unreasonable search and siezure. Any official must be able to demonstrate sufficient probably cause for any kind of search. Obviously, getting backroomed is out of the ordinary and can't be done willy-nilly without risk of reprisal. The same thing holds true for a personal laptop computer. You can turn in on and show them it's not a b*mb. But there is nothing that says you have to enter your private password at the login screen and let them search around. It's no different than a policeman who wants to enter your home. If you let them in, then you have willfully granted them full access to anything they can see. If you tell them (nicely) to <deleted>-off and get a warrrant, then they have to back off or risk reprisal. Same goes for a laptop. CD's and other portable media are another story.

I'm probably about as pro-US as they come, and very happy to be a US citizen rather than a citizen of some other country. But no one is above the law. Everyone is accountable. Same thing goes for some of these over zealous clowns working at airports. If someone is going to the extreme or being outright rude, then it is up to the individual to get their name and badge number and make a report. Believe me, these are government bureaucrats like any other. When people make complaints to supervisors, then are not allowed to sweep it under the carpet. They have to fill out reports and discipline as required. WHY? Because you as a citizen have a right under the Freedom of Information Act to submit a query to verify whether or not the proper actions were taken. Very few of these supervisor bureaucrats who want to climb the GS-ladder will jeopardize their future by not filling out their paperwork.

Strangely, I can't say that I've ever been seriously hassled anywhere in the world including the US. Perhaps its because I have 20 pages worth of immigration stamps from all over the place. The only real bad experiences have been in Hong Kong where they have been a little over the top with searches. But that is probably because I am a US citizen and they want to see what I have. The only other was in Saudi Arabia one time where they went to search through all my bags. The first bag they chose was my main bag and the first thing they saw on the top was my flak-jacket. End of search. Please move on.

[Pepe']

he US Custom and Immigration officer noticed a "Thai" visa stamp in my passport, and asked me what I went to Thailand for. I told him "a vacation". His answer was that "nobody just goes for a vacation. They go for sex tourism"

Thank you for this additional evidence. There is no doubt in my mind they harass a good number of single male travelers who travel to Thailand.

Some of these stories seem to be clearly over the top and out of the norm, but IMHO it is important to separate harrassment from directed questions. When someone in this position asks what may seem like a really outlandish question, they are clearly trying to stimulate some sort of targeted response indicative of some profile in their training. It's no different than banter at a poker table. It's business not personal. Depending on the way people react to certain questions, a trained or skilled interpreter can infer a heck of a lot about whether the answerer is lying, hiding something or being honest. And there are other methods to the madness. Thailand, along with other places like China, Romania and Russia are world leaders in media piracy and intellectual property theft. If one gets caught with this kind of contraband, look out. When I was in Japan, young single US military personnel returning from Thailand holidays used to regularly get the third degree from Japanese customs looking for pirated stuff. Woe the person who got caught, because when the Japanese officials got done with them, the military officials then stepped in.

Regardless of all this stuff, all US citizens have constitutional rights against unreasonable search and siezure. Any official must be able to demonstrate sufficient probably cause for any kind of search. Obviously, getting backroomed is out of the ordinary and can't be done willy-nilly without risk of reprisal. The same thing holds true for a personal laptop computer. You can turn in on and show them it's not a b*mb. But there is nothing that says you have to enter your private password at the login screen and let them search around. It's no different than a policeman who wants to enter your home. If you let them in, then you have willfully granted them full access to anything they can see. If you tell them (nicely) to <deleted>-off and get a warrrant, then they have to back off or risk reprisal. Same goes for a laptop. CD's and other portable media are another story.

I'm probably about as pro-US as they come, and very happy to be a US citizen rather than a citizen of some other country. But no one is above the law. Everyone is accountable. Same thing goes for some of these over zealous clowns working at airports. If someone is going to the extreme or being outright rude, then it is up to the individual to get their name and badge number and make a report. Believe me, these are government bureaucrats like any other. When people make complaints to supervisors, then are not allowed to sweep it under the carpet. They have to fill out reports and discipline as required. WHY? Because you as a citizen have a right under the Freedom of Information Act to submit a query to verify whether or not the proper actions were taken. Very few of these supervisor bureaucrats who want to climb the GS-ladder will jeopardize their future by not filling out their paperwork.

Strangely, I can't say that I've ever been seriously hassled anywhere in the world including the US. Perhaps its because I have 20 pages worth of immigration stamps from all over the place. The only real bad experiences have been in Hong Kong where they have been a little over the top with searches. But that is probably because I am a US citizen and they want to see what I have. The only other was in Saudi Arabia one time where they went to search through all my bags. The first bag they chose was my main bag and the first thing they saw on the top was my flak-jacket. End of search. Please move on.

--------------------------

Which story seems the most clearly over the top?

[mcgriffith]

I hope that if you really feel the way you express yourself, you will have the self respect, of boycotting, and not using any American technology, products or entertainment materials. I hope your point of view will be strong enough to keep you from being a hypocrite, and you can truly show your revulsion at my fellow countrymen difficulty ( which you misspelled) in reading and understanding basic text.

Americans(which you forgot to capitalize) unfortunately(which you also misspelled) will have great difficulties (which you also misspelled) in understanding such strong and determined intellect as you seem to have. Don't ( you also misspelled) take offense if this great display of your character and intellect goes unnoticed, in fact(that's 2 words not one) continue with such a boycott until Americans empathize and apologize (another word you messed up a little on) to you for not meeting your educational and intellectual standards. Personally if you would be so kind as to hold your breath while you are waiting for this, Americans will probably deeply appreciate it.

And for the purposes of the record, mis-spelled is hyphenated

Not according to this....

I prefer this http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/misspelled

It supports my argument

Not really. The dot you see in the word in your link (and for that matter in my link) is the way all dictionaries separate the syllables of words- it is most emphatically not a hyphen. Misspelled has no hyphen. To quote a reference on English grammer:

" Do not hyphenate words prefixed by non, un, in, dis, co, anti, hyper, pre, re, post, out, bi, counter, de, semi, mis, mega, micro, inter, over, and under (among others).Examples: nonaffiliated, nonemergency, uninfected, inpatient, disorder, disbar, coworker, copayment, antismoking, antimanagement, hyperactive, hyperrealism, preoperative, prejudge, reoccur, readjust, resubmit, postoperative, posttraumatic, outpatient, outmoded, bimonthly, biannual, counterrevolutionary, counterculture, decompress, semifinal, semiannual, misinformed, misprint, megabyte, microcircuit, interconnected, interoffice, overemphasize, override, underrepresent, underestimated."

On topic, I have always been treated quite well by US Immigration and Customs. When I was a young lad with long hair, I was rousted a few times coming back from countries like Afghanistan, Morocco and Nepal....gee, I wonder why?

I think a lot of it has to do with your persona, your "vibe", your aura, so to speak. They are trained to spot a million telltale signs that incoming passengers inadvertantly display.

It is a small bother. As others have noted, try spending 3 hours in Riyadh in Saudi, and have your bicycle tires cut open.

The US is not the EU. I know NOW you can sail through EU borders and not stop, but I quite clearly recall entering Spain from France in the 70's, and having Franco's boys tear my car apart, scrutinize my docs, and put me through the wringer for 1+ hour.

This is nothing new, and I don't see it getting any better in the near term.....

[Tinkelbell]

quoted:......."You guys must fit a perfect "profile." Maybe you should take off the sunglasses, remove the turban and shave off the beard.

................................................................................

I always do just like that. Having Traveling between Florida and NY- LGA airport once or twice monthly. When I reach the security x-ray booth, I automaticely take off my shoes ( boots in winter, sandals in summer), hat (wool or straw), coat or blazer, my wrist watch, gold necklet, also my handbag, placed them all in the plastic tray. It is my routine now and I'm happy to do it.

Sometimes when all the passengers were lining up, ready for boarding, the airline gate agents would go random serch again, the agent would appologize for causing the un- convenient, I alway praising them for doing their job diligently by telling them it makes everyone feel safer. Remember, the terrorists can afford to miss everytime, all they need just on hit to cause catastrophe.

[CbrLad]

The Aussies can be pretty bad too.

I agree with that - Sydney can be a right pain.

When the 'random inspections' have you asked for by name, randomness ceases to be.

I now ask for their photo ID card before handing anything over. That seems to put a scare into them, & they'll call their boss with preference to providing the ID.

The boss will happily point out that complaints against their staff *MUST* be done there & then & only on their forms. Guess that makes it easier to shed the evidence & say there was no complaints.

These days, I just say I was on a farm - whether I was or not.

As for the US: Wouldn't go there. I don't appreciate the way tourists are treated & I don't willingly go to countries controlled by terrorists.

You don't get random searches in Australia, well Sydney anyway. If you have some to declare you go to the red line and show them what you have. If you don't you go to the green line then your bag is x-rayed. If you are specificaly asked to go to the red channel it isn't random it is because you have been targeted for some reason, THAT IS NOT RANDOM. This has happened to me once when the sniffer dog found something, which I later found out was fruit residue in the bag I take to work every day, it was enough to set the dog off. But that was a not a random thing, it was as a result of the dog. Others get targeted by the myriad of people who are looking and watching what is going on, the sad thing is if someone fits the profile once they will probably fit it everytime so will think they are being victimised, but sadly that is the way it is.

Oh one trick if you have something to hide take some wood in. AQIS will always want to check wood and for some reason after they see it they very rarley check anything else in your bag and then send you on your way without a bag x-ray.

Edited October 11, 2007 by CbrLad

[pgs]

The Aussies can be pretty bad too.

I agree with that - Sydney can be a right pain.

When the 'random inspections' have you asked for by name, randomness ceases to be.

I now ask for their photo ID card before handing anything over. That seems to put a scare into them, & they'll call their boss with preference to providing the ID.

The boss will happily point out that complaints against their staff *MUST* be done there & then & only on their forms. Guess that makes it easier to shed the evidence & say there was no complaints.

These days, I just say I was on a farm - whether I was or not.

As for the US: Wouldn't go there. I don't appreciate the way tourists are treated & I don't willingly go to countries controlled by terrorists.

You don't get random searches in Australia, well Sydney anyway. If you have some to declare you go to the red line and show them what you have. If you don't you go to the green line then your bag is x-rayed. If you are specificaly asked to go to the red channel it isn't random it is because you have been targeted for some reason, THAT IS NOT RANDOM. This has happened to me once when the sniffer dog found something, which I later found out was fruit residue in the bag I take to work every day, it was enough to set the dog off. But that was a not a random thing, it was as a result of the dog. Others get targeted by the myriad of people who are looking and watching what is going on, the sad thing is if someone fits the profile once they will probably fit it everytime so will think they are being victimised, but sadly that is the way it is.

Oh one trick if you have something to hide take some wood in. AQIS will always want to check wood and for some reason after they see it they very rarley check anything else in your bag and then send you on your way without a bag x-ray.

In recent years - yes, everyone is searched. 2000 - 2003 I was traveling Asia / Europe a lot for work. I would generally be cased at the carousel waiting for the 'priority luggage' that always seemed to be last off.

"Are you X?" knowing full well whom they are talking to takes the randomness away. after 3 consecutive runs of this, I lodged complaints & it stopped for a while.

Interesting was the 2nd explosives screening after going through the first security check (Sydney also check bags for explosives prior to check in). 3 very obvious 'persons of middle eastern appearance' were overlooked & I was checked again. Maybe she was scared of checking 3 of them. Still haven't worked out where in the airport I was supposed to get the fresh supply of explosives after check-in.

We've also used wood / orchids / chocolate as declaration items.

Before you start, I know chocolate doesn't need to be declared, but it is done to point out the stupidity of one of their rules.

As a side line, the Aussie (and NZ) shows of Border Security have been a great help in explaining what can't be brought in & sometimes why. TW watches regularly & generally now can pick out what they have done wrong. She now understands it's not right to bring back a large qty of pirate DVD / CDs or Thai foods.

Edited October 11, 2007 by pgs

[geriatrickid]

LAX is a nightmare now and will get worse in the coming years as the International terminal finally gets redone. Keep in mind that many of the agents are military reservists and they have been called up for duty. The ranks are filled with people that otherwise wouldn't have been hired. All it takes is the loss of a few experienced agents for a terminal to lose it's professional presence.Unfortunately, when a customs agent screams at groggy terrified asian tourists who do not understand english, or the lines are poorly managed as they are at LAX, it leaves a very bad first impression.

I too have been asked the porn question about my laptop. I know they have to ask since I fit the profile. I also sympathize that customs & immigration have to do their job. They intentionally ask provocative questions to guage the reaction. Those questions are often prompted by a software program that suggests it was written by a group of men that lived in rural Idaho. The training, particularly in the understanding of foreign behaviours is lacking. (Read the Inspector General's report section on training - psych and basic admin skills were cut back in favour of weapons training.)

Sadly, I have to fly in to & out Lax a few times in November. I'll see the difference betweenLAX & SFO when I start using SFO as my BKK commute route in December.

I miss the good old days when DL did PDX-NRT and I could transfer to SQ. Then again, flying was fun prior to 9-11 and a heck of alot cheaper. (Remember back in the mid 90's when you could get a ROW fare on DL-SQ-SR in 1st class for US$4500US and you got a real fork and knife?)

[sriracha john]

following up on the nud_e strip searches we'll be doing..

TSA Promises Privacy For Subjects Of Clothing-Penetrating Scans

The millimeter wave scanning system being tested at Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport can see through clothing to detect weapons, explosives, and other objects.

The U.S. Transportation Security Administration today promised to protect air travelers' privacy as TSA personnel peer through their clothes.

The TSA has begun testing a millimeter wave scanning system at Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport as an alternative to pat-downs performed by security personnel when secondary screening is deemed appropriate. The technology can see through clothing to detect weapons, explosives, and other objects.

The TSA said that energy emitted by millimeter wave technology -- 10,000 times less than a cell phone -- is safe, that the technology is intended to keep passengers safe, and that it will keep the potentially embarrassing images safe.

"We are committed to testing technologies that improve security while protecting passenger privacy," said TSA administrator Kip Hawley in a statement. "Privacy is ensured through the anonymity of the image: It will never be stored, transmitted, or printed, and it will be deleted immediately once viewed."

Ensuring privacy, as the TSA describes it, involves having security officers view images from remote locations. Thus, the security officer cannot identify the passenger, visually or by some other means, but can send word to fellow officers if a threat is detected.

According to the TSA, the scanning system applies a security algorithm to further protect passenger privacy by obscuring the passenger's face.

Not everyone finds such assurances credible. In a statement, Barry Steinhardt, director of the ACLU's technology and liberty program, spelled out three objections to the TSA's plans.

"First, this technology produces strikingly graphic images of passengers' bodies," Steinhardt said. "Those images reveal not only our private body parts, but also intimate medical details like colostomy bags. That degree of examination amounts to a significant -- and for some people humiliating -- assault on the essential dignity of passengers that citizens in a free nation should not have to tolerate."

Steinhardt also expressed doubt that such screenings could really be considered voluntary if passengers did not understand the invasiveness of the images and that the program would remain voluntary in the future. Finally, he voiced skepticism of the TSA's privacy safeguards. "They say that they are obscuring faces, but that is just a software fix that can be undone as easily as it is applied," he said. "And obscuring faces does not hide the fact that rest of the body will be vividly displayed."

- Information Week

====================================

smile and say "cheese"

[pgs]

following up on the nud_e strip searches we'll be doing..

"Privacy is ensured through the anonymity of the image: It will never be stored, transmitted, or printed, and it will be deleted immediately once viewed."

Don't believe that for a minute. The pics would be required in court, otherwise it's a "he says / they say" session.

As it's in the US (for now), it will be interesting to see the 'invasion of privacy' cases to follow.

Undoubtedly, they will wind up on a web-site somewhere.

[sriracha john]

" TSA's T and A " website is soon to come online...

[sriracha john]

SHEESH.... Worse has already happened:

Backscatter image

Backscatter X-Ray Machine Malfunctions - Floods Internet With X-Rated Pictures Including You Know Who

Authorities say that one of the Backscatter X-Ray machines at Sky Harbor International Airport malfunctioned today sending pictures of a whole database of naked passengers onto the internet.

Eye witnesses who were online at the time said that all of a sudden their computers crashed. After they were booted back up again, pictures of all the passengers were available on the TSA (Transportation Security Administration) national website.

The Backscatter X-Ray machine is a new device currently used in airports that takes X-rays of passenger's entire body in "incredibly graphic detail."

Authorities working for the TSA (Transportation Security Administration) said that they were unsure how many of the pictures actually made it onto the website, but sources say the number was in the thousands. It was said that among the group of naked pictures was a picture of Britney Spears.

A spokesperson for Backscatter said that tests were on going trying to determine the exact cause of the malfunction, but seemed to think that the problem could have been as simple as having the cable connected to the wrong port.

"We're still trying to work out all the bugs," the spokesman said. "Our workers are not rocket scientists you know."

Ms. Spears had no comment and seemed disaffected by the incident.

Transportation industry specialists say that a probe is currently being put into the investigation to try to expedite the process. Meanwhile, passengers who had their naked photos displayed over the internet are trying to minimize their embarrassment through laughter.

"It sure feels good to laugh at someone else for a change," said Wanda Price one of the passenger's whose picture was displayed.

Representatives from Slim Fast, Overeater's Anonymous and other companies that produce dietary supplements are capitalizing on the opportunity.

No word was out as to when the machines might be fixed.

- The Spoof Magazine

*The story above is a satire or parody. It is entirely fictitious.*

[backflip]

It's interesting that the posters are commenting on the actions of individual officers. When the same discussions are centered around Thailand, posters comment about: AOT, Thaksin, corruption....everything EXCEPT individual officers.

[Captain Chaos]

Those questions are often prompted by a software program that suggests it was written by a group of men that lived in rural Idaho.

[qualtrough]

Then he asks where I work. As a career IRS employee, I knew not to spill the beans too quickly.

1. "I work for the government."

2. (Which government?) "Federal."

3. (Which department?) "Treasury."

4. (Which agency?) "I manage tax auditors at the IRS."

5. (Excuse me a minute, sir.) He goes back to his computer for 30 seconds with my federal employee health ID card. Mind you, he and I belong to the same labor union, but I'm management and he's labor.

6. He concludes, "Sir, we're going to treat you as a VIP if you promise not to audit our income tax returns."

The only other was in Saudi Arabia one time where they went to search through all my bags. The first bag they chose was my main bag and the first thing they saw on the top was my flak-jacket. End of search. Please move on.

Two examples of less than stellar performance by immigration/customs officials (I realize one was in Saudi). While many terrorists are not very bright, some are, and surely it would occur to them that adopting the persona and paraphernalia connected to government employees or soldiers might put them under less scrutiny. Agents who do that are putting everyone at risk.

[meadish_sweetball]

I too have been asked the porn question about my laptop. I know they have to ask since I fit the profile.

What is the profile for laptop porn? Sexually active male?

[CbrLad]

We've also used wood / orchids / chocolate as declaration items.

Before you start, I know chocolate doesn't need to be declared, but it is done to point out the stupidity of one of their rules.

As a side line, the Aussie (and NZ) shows of Border Security have been a great help in explaining what can't be brought in & sometimes why. TW watches regularly & generally now can pick out what they have done wrong. She now understands it's not right to bring back a large qty of pirate DVD / CDs or Thai foods.

Well actually chocolate does need to be declared, it is food. Just because they will allow you in with it doesn't mean next time you can just ignore it. All FOOD needs to be declared. I always laugh at border control with the people who bring in food, I can imagine chocolate, no this not food this chocolate.

The question about your misses though what is wrong with bringing back food? So long as you declare it and accept what AQIS allows you to bring in you are doing nothing wrong. It is only wrong to not declare it.

[dave111223]

The key to passing through immigration quickly is to leave all your self respect at the door.

Put your brain into 2nd gear and just let them bully and insult you all they want.

Don't give any smart answers even if the question is ridiculous. Don't smile and don't get angry.

Just act like you are an idiot and take everything that they say as fact.

They will soon become bored and want to move on to their next victim.

So what if some thug in a uniform belittles you for a few minutes? Better than giving them some attitude (which i'm sure is what they are hoping for) and turning it into a 3 hour ordeal.

[sbk]

Well, I must not be hitting their radar at all as the only time I have ever been searched was about 6-7 years ago, and that was in an interior city (ie not coastal and therefor unused to flights from Thailand--only people pulled on that flight were me and the two Thai guys with US passports. The flight was KAL and all the Koreans went sailing on through).

I have never encountered anything other than friendly attitudes from either Immigration, Customs and the security staff who screen. Sure, I've heard stories but since I don't get annoyed, mind my own business and treat people with decency and good manners, I have never had a problem.

Maybe as a woman travelling alone I don't fit their profile, maybe I don't exude bad attitude so therefor get none in return.

No idea what is the trigger but I have managed to avoid it.