What Do You Mean By "paying For It"?

[JimmyCA]

I have been paying rent, 6k, plus 12 - 15k a month for living expenses. Although I never paid this woman for sex directly one could argue same same. I do not think I will take on another "Thai GF" when this one fizzles.

Many guys pay for short time sex, this makes the most sense and is cheapest.

[thomo]

Who gives a fuc_k what other people do or don't in their lives.

How about living your own life and making sure you're happy with what you're doing instead of trying to find out who's paying what to whom and what are they getting in return.

Couldn't give a fuc_k if someone is paying a million baht a month to some gold clad whore or if he has a harem of young nubiles weighting on him hand and and foot for free.

Who cares?

have you nothing better to do in your life than worry about what other people are doing?

[thomo]

I don't know whether to pity or make fun of you sad saps.

What, you actually care what other people do?

You sad, sad man.

[TonyLeung]

I don't know whether to pity or make fun of you sad saps.

What, you actually care what other people do?

You sad, sad man.

You realize that these argument can be applied to any statement that anyone makes on this board, right? People are stating their different opinions and beliefs, I am stating that I think they are sad. So no one should judge anyone else's opinion? But you just judged my stated opinion...

Edited November 14, 2007 by TonyLeung

[jing jing]

Have you guys considered that you have certain characteristics or qualities that cause the women who aren't interested solely in money to avoid you?

Tony, your contributions to this topic don't merit a serious response but I'll try to elucidate for you just a little bit in spite of your apparent supercilious attitude.

Consider the market for potential mates to be analagous to any other competitive market -- the prime assets will generally find their way into the hands of those with greater resources. At the risk of further alienating the female/feminist contingent here on TV I would suggest that a woman's greatest resource when it comes to attracting men is her sex appeal. If you wish to refute that, please give an example of a successful and/or handsome male (i.e. a "good catch") who has chosen an unattractive woman as his mate.

Conversely, I would suggest that a man's greatest resource for attracting women is the sum total combination of his charm, good looks, and financial werewithal... with finances being the dominant factor. If you wish to refute that please give us an example of a beautiful woman from a non-disadvantaged background who has chosen a poor, boring, unattractive man as her mate.

My earlier homily about attractive women and wealthy men was obviously an oversimplication as there are other factors at work, such as the woman's degree of affluence, the man's appearance and personal charisma, social status, and the like.

From a fellow who makes comments implying that he can have all the beautiful women he wants without spending a dime, it sure would be interesting to see a picture of you and your latest conquest along with an accounting of your expenditures to date.

Of course, every guy is a Valentino when they're hacking away at their keyboard on an internet forum.

[sbk]

Lets keep this civil without flaming and abuse please.

Any further such posts will be deleted and the poster warned--and this is being addressed to everyone, not any person in particular.

[DamianMavis]

I'm sure when 99% of people here say "paying for it" they mean bar girl. If they don't, the context is usually made quite clear. I think I've seen you post that you have gf's and don't pay for it in several threads, pretty much bragging that you don't pay (though that is nothing to brag about in a developing country), so I'm really starting to wonder why you bring this up so much.

With that out of my system, I have a girlfriend at the moment, and being in a relationship in Thailand has always cost me more over a month, year, whatever, than if I was just having one night stands or paying for bar girls. Since my gf makes about 13k a month, how can I expect her to come out with me, while I live the lifestyle I want at the moment, without treating her? I can spend 15-20k a week on restaurants, movies, pool/snooker, bars, discos, taxis, shopping, etc. When she's with me, most of my costs double. This adds up to a lot more than a one night stand (just the cost of me going out), or a bar girl (1 - 2k). I suppose if you're the type that likes to stay home all day and eat 30 baht meals or cook your own meals, then a gf won't cost much.

No you are seriously mistaken or have reading problems. I have had a live in Japanese girlfriend for 3 years now (basically I'm MARRIED) and have absolutely NO Thai girlfriends. I was referring to life in general when I said at the beggining of this thread: I don't pay women to like me, they either do or they don't. If it is constured as bragging to say that... well I'll try to be more careful.

Damian

[TheEmperorOfTheNorth]

You mean there's actually a point to this discussion? I think we're done here.

I pay for everything, for all I need except the air that I breathe, and to loooooveee youuuuu...

Damian mainly pays for an internet connection so he can see his own posts on screen, and a mirror, possibly.

Edited November 14, 2007 by TheEmperorOfTheNorth

[DamianMavis]

Actually I pay alot for good internet at home and my studio just so I can play Wow at any time of the day!... Im a geek. I don't need a mirror, I can go to my profile and gaze dreamily at my own pic. Thanks to my lightning fast internet connection that just makes it all that much better.

I wanted to hear what people had to say, so far so good. What is the point to any thread I wonder?

Damian

[WaiWai]

I think we're done here.

Possibly, because almost all thai-farang interactions *do* fit much the same mould. Partly because of the nature of Thai society, and partly because of the nature of the bulk (oops ) of the foreign sector here.

Elsewhere, you will find many, many differences and variations. Don't think so ? Talk to your own brothers and sisters living elsewhere, and nieces, nephews, kids and grand-kids.

Edited November 14, 2007 by WaiWai

[Scott]

For sex, cash works best.

For a relationship, I pay with everything (and some cash as well)!

[DamianMavis]

Well, is it safe to say that women pay (maybe not in cash) as well when in a relationship?

Damian

[chuck6660]

For sex, cash works best.

For a relationship, I pay with everything (and some cash as well)!

Well said...anyone who doesn't understand Scott's point should pull their head put of their 4th point of contact!

[a2396]

I'm sure when 99% of people here say "paying for it" they mean bar girl. If they don't, the context is usually made quite clear. I think I've seen you post that you have gf's and don't pay for it in several threads, pretty much bragging that you don't pay (though that is nothing to brag about in a developing country), so I'm really starting to wonder why you bring this up so much.

With that out of my system, I have a girlfriend at the moment, and being in a relationship in Thailand has always cost me more over a month, year, whatever, than if I was just having one night stands or paying for bar girls. Since my gf makes about 13k a month, how can I expect her to come out with me, while I live the lifestyle I want at the moment, without treating her? I can spend 15-20k a week on restaurants, movies, pool/snooker, bars, discos, taxis, shopping, etc. When she's with me, most of my costs double. This adds up to a lot more than a one night stand (just the cost of me going out), or a bar girl (1 - 2k). I suppose if you're the type that likes to stay home all day and eat 30 baht meals or cook your own meals, then a gf won't cost much.

No you are seriously mistaken or have reading problems. I have had a live in Japanese girlfriend for 3 years now (basically I'm MARRIED) and have absolutely NO Thai girlfriends. I was referring to life in general when I said at the beggining of this thread: I don't pay women to like me, they either do or they don't. If it is constured as bragging to say that... well I'll try to be more careful.

Damian

Japanese are not at all the same mentality as Thai. I would bet your lady has her own means of independent income as well.

[a2396]

Have you guys considered that you have certain characteristics or qualities that cause the women who aren't interested solely in money to avoid you?

Tony, your contributions to this topic don't merit a serious response but I'll try to elucidate for you just a little bit in spite of your apparent supercilious attitude.

Consider the market for potential mates to be analagous to any other competitive market -- the prime assets will generally find their way into the hands of those with greater resources. At the risk of further alienating the female/feminist contingent here on TV I would suggest that a woman's greatest resource when it comes to attracting men is her sex appeal. If you wish to refute that, please give an example of a successful and/or handsome male (i.e. a "good catch") who has chosen an unattractive woman as his mate.

Conversely, I would suggest that a man's greatest resource for attracting women is the sum total combination of his charm, good looks, and financial werewithal... with finances being the dominant factor. If you wish to refute that please give us an example of a beautiful woman from a non-disadvantaged background who has chosen a poor, boring, unattractive man as her mate.

My earlier homily about attractive women and wealthy men was obviously an oversimplication as there are other factors at work, such as the woman's degree of affluence, the man's appearance and personal charisma, social status, and the like.

From a fellow who makes comments implying that he can have all the beautiful women he wants without spending a dime, it sure would be interesting to see a picture of you and your latest conquest along with an accounting of your expenditures to date.

Of course, every guy is a Valentino when they're hacking away at their keyboard on an internet forum.

Excellent Post!!!

[DP25]

It seems that ALL the other Farangs I know in Thailand should also look in the mirror, because they are in the same situation. I don't know ANY Farangs of my personal aquaintence who go for free. If you are claiming that you don't give Thai ladies any money & you have a close relationship with them, I would like to know your secret.

The secret is called, being in your 20s.

[blizzard]

paying for sex is topic of the day. what is this forum cuming too.

i dont think hokers looked up to in any civliztion.

someone shold strt a thread what makes a good prostitute.

if you dont know the meaning of paying for it then you dont.

i dont see the big deal about it. its wot many frangs cm here for. IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE.

Edited November 14, 2007 by blizzard

[a2396]

paying for sex is topic of the day. what is this forum cuming too.

i dont think hokers looked up to in any civliztion.

someone shold strt a thread what makes a good prostitute.

I don't think the intention of the poster was to be quite so crass. I think the inquiry was about more about the situation with wives or girlfriends. Everyone knows that if you go to a prostitute for sex you are going to pay. Hopefully most of the women discussed here are not prostitutes, but that's a matter of definition. If a lady refuses any relationship with a man, unless they pay her money, what does that make her?

[blizzard]

THE PROBLEM WITH MANY IS THEY cant differentiate between girlfriend and hooker in hailand. they think its same same.

in usa guys dont refer to their paid help as their girlfriend. in thailand they do.

ps im not knocking hokers. there are some very sweet girls in the trade who do their job very well.

Edited November 14, 2007 by blizzard

[DamianMavis]

My eyes are bleeding after trying to read your post Blizzard... which is always the case, and my head hurts. Can you start posting in english?

A2396, of course man, my "wife" is far more educated and succesful than I, BUT she still expects me to be a man. She is tradtional and expects me to pay for dinner, movies etc, things like that. If I was rich enough she would expect me to pay the full rent instead of just 50%. However, after her long day of business meetings, buidling designing, or meeting with ambassadors... I still expect her to do the cleaning! And cooking but not as much since its just so easy to order food. Am I sexist? Guess so, but its the way she likes it so she is sexist too.

I know Thai women are different, but I think it mostly has to do with their personal income level? Most Thai women in this country are poor, so most of us farangs date poor women, so it shouldnt be surprising that the men pay for something I guess. But what bothers me about this whole situation is.... where does love become real? How can you ever trust or know for a fact that your poor Thai girlfriend actually loves you and isnt just using you? Even if all you are doing is bringing her family shopping. (which boggles my mind that some guys do this... I highly doubt Thai men are taking their girlfriends family or friends shopping and buying them whatver they want.)

Personally, and this probably sounds horrible, I could never trust and have a real relationship with a poor Thai woman. I could never get over the possibility that she might not actually love ME, just my money and the thought of financial security for the rest of their lives. Handsome has nothing to do with it, even youth has nothing to do with it, I could still never trust them, you would have to be pretty full of yourself to totally discount the possibility that she is using you. If a Thai woman had more money than me, then no problem I guess.

The last thing I have a problem with is alot of posters attitudes that "you are having sex with her so you are using her if you dont pay her SOMETHING". I dont get this... I dont know where you guys come from but where Im from, sex is mutually beneficial. No one should feel obligated or that they owe ANYTHING after having sex.... unless you are one of those guys that blows in under 30 seconds? In that case you owe a good 10 minutes of oral sex!

Damian

[blizzard]

anyone ever wonder why thi women are kinda ez to have sex with..............lol. many of them ok wih money, they not looking for mind blowing orgasm.

i bet many free sex falls into the category of man is just oblious to the signs. or gurl is new and may be shy to explicitly state her intentions.

its been said not ez to get god thai gurls into bed, they know the gam e as does EVERYONE ELSE in los.

[TonyLeung]

Have you guys considered that you have certain characteristics or qualities that cause the women who aren't interested solely in money to avoid you?

Tony, your contributions to this topic don't merit a serious response but I'll try to elucidate for you just a little bit in spite of your apparent supercilious attitude.

Consider the market for potential mates to be analagous to any other competitive market -- the prime assets will generally find their way into the hands of those with greater resources. At the risk of further alienating the female/feminist contingent here on TV I would suggest that a woman's greatest resource when it comes to attracting men is her sex appeal. If you wish to refute that, please give an example of a successful and/or handsome male (i.e. a "good catch") who has chosen an unattractive woman as his mate.

Conversely, I would suggest that a man's greatest resource for attracting women is the sum total combination of his charm, good looks, and financial werewithal... with finances being the dominant factor. If you wish to refute that please give us an example of a beautiful woman from a non-disadvantaged background who has chosen a poor, boring, unattractive man as her mate.

My earlier homily about attractive women and wealthy men was obviously an oversimplication as there are other factors at work, such as the woman's degree of affluence, the man's appearance and personal charisma, social status, and the like.

From a fellow who makes comments implying that he can have all the beautiful women he wants without spending a dime, it sure would be interesting to see a picture of you and your latest conquest along with an accounting of your expenditures to date.

Of course, every guy is a Valentino when they're hacking away at their keyboard on an internet forum.

You claimed that women care about money more than anything else. This might be true for the kind of women you date and spend your time with, but it is not true for myself or others who have commented in this thread (which includes female posters). I am sorry if that makes you angry.

[TonyLeung]

Jing, take a look at this post

These topics always go this way, it seems.

In fact, I do know several Thai women with foreign husbands who did NOT marry a foreigner for money. These women have assets of their own and, astoundingly enough, seem to have married these men because they love them. Amazing that can happen, even in Thailand.

What I find interesting is the entirely male perspective on relationships, as if they are all somehow transactions with the man giving a disproportionate amount of whatever (himself, his money etc). I wonder how many of these guys actually stop to think about what their wife/girlfriend does for them? Or that perhaps we do things for each other in a relationship because we love the other person and like to see them happy?

Not saying all Thai/Farang relationships are not financial transactions, what I am saying is that most certainly not all of them are. And if you continue to view your relationship for what you can get out of it, or what it offers you then you are bound to attract someone who behaves the same. A sort of self-fulfilling prophecy. You get what you give.

[TonyLeung]

Jing, check out this post.

SBK, it may be that you aren't aware of all the reasons behind why the Thai women you know married the foreigners they did, but I would venture to say they didn't end up with men who were financially dependent on them... they probably found the wealthiest guys they could attract.

Um, no, actually, you are incorrect. One that I know quite well is very well-to-do, University educated and attractive. Her husband's family, while not poor is most likely not nearly as asset wealthy as her family. She could have very easily married someone much wealthier than herself.

I am pretty sure that she actually loves the guy having known her for 18 years.

Not everyone approaches relationships in such a cynical fashion. Yes, many do, but be aware that there are always exceptions to every rule and not everyone will fit your idea of what is the norm here.

Also, as to the idea that women look for wealthy men, well certainly some women do, and of course it exists in the West as well, but is, I think, a dying tradition and one generally looked down upon by women themselves. Of course, someone will always come up with some example to refute this idea but again, it is merely an instance and IMO as a woman, not the norm in the West anymore.

[markwhite]

But what bothers me about this whole situation is.... where does love become real? How can you ever trust or know for a fact that your poor Thai girlfriend actually loves you and isnt just using you?

I used to associate with someone who initiated a long conversation with me about how he didn't believe that love existed and it was just an invention by the church back in the Dark Ages to indoctrinate people into the church-approved institution of marriage - that people felt obliged to say they had a certain feeling towards each other, and that the feeling itself was non-existant. I feel this is a somewhat cynical view, but then he was a very cynical person.

Love is not an easy thing to define. There's a bit in 'A Road Less Travelled' where love is given various definitions such as sexual lust, dependent love and unconditional love. And probably others I forget.

If you're in lust, it's probably easy not to care about the emotional side of things. If you get your nightly sh*g, that's all that matters.

If you have dependent love for someone, you need them to give you something back. You only love them if they have something to give you in return.

Unconditional love is accepting someone no matter what they do. It doesn't matter if they don't love you or are using you, you still extend your love to them.

I could never get over the possibility that she might not actually love ME, just my money and the thought of financial security for the rest of their lives.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but that reads pretty much like dependent love, and I'd venture that you're with a lot of people who have doubts and insecurities in a similar way. It's why a lot of people grab at relationships hoping it will fulfill part of themselves that they cannot fill for themselves - I'm insecure, she can make me feel secure - and then move on to repeat the same cycle again with someone else. Though some people do make it work until they can realise a different sort of love for each other.

[TonyLeung]

One very important aspect of "paying for it" financially is that it gives the payer a measure of control over the payee. They can be "boss" in the interaction, whether short-term or much longer.

At the same time, paying financially exempts the person from other emotional/"moral" obligations, and lets the payer feel they're not in danger of emotional manipulation, that is of "paying" in psychological ways.

This makes sense, but my gut feeling is that those who enter these types of relationships are more likely to do so out of a lack of options.

Edited November 14, 2007 by TonyLeung

[DP25]

anyone ever wonder why thi women are kinda ez to have sex with..............lol.

The Thai women in the places you hang out in are easy to have sex with. Why don't you go to a club in RCA or Thonglor tonight and see how 'easy' the chicks are to sleep with. And the chicks there are easier to pull than the ones that are in bed every night by 9pm.

[WaiWai]

One very important aspect of "paying for it" financially is that it gives the payer a measure of control over the payee. They can be "boss" in the interaction, whether short-term or much longer.

At the same time, paying financially exempts the person from other emotional/"moral" obligations, and lets the payer feel they're not in danger of emotional manipulation, that is of "paying" in psychological ways.

This makes sense, but my gut feeling is that those who enter these types of relationships are more likely to do so out of a lack of options.

Ermm, that wasn't very tactful, but yes, also that ... read the threads in the Gay forum where you will find more honesty in the analysis.

Edited November 14, 2007 by WaiWai

[blizzard]

dp i tink we are agreeing.

good thai gurlls just dont hop into bed with the local faranf or tourist.

gurls that do want something other than hot steamy orgasmic sex! and its a good thing these exist............lol.

[TheDon]

I never have paid for it and when in Thailand I never did.

I was in my early 20's then and it was easy. But it is easy here in Sydney too.