Why Do Western People Use The Word "farang"?

[mr_hippo]

So an educated foreigner who cannot speak English should be able to tell the difference between a Croat, an Albanian and a Romanian when they are speaking English? Can you?

The accepted word in Thailand is 'farang' - learn to live with it!

No, but an educated person of any country should be able to tell the difference between Russian, English, Chinese, Japanese, Spanish, and German.

I already said 10 times I have no problem with it, but sorry, it does say something about Thailand, like it or not.

55555 - An American TV station bought a detective series - Taggart- from Scottish TV. What did these 'educated' Americans do? They returned the tapes to Scottish TV and asked them to add English subtitles as the dialogue was in Greek!

I'm out of here, got to go to Chok Chai 4 to watch the traffic lights change colour! More stimulating that this rehashed topic.

[Jingthing]

I am sure the subtitles were badly needed, whats your point? I can't understand a Scotsman but I can tell he is a Scotsman because I can't understand him ...

Edited November 24, 2007 by Jingthing

[mr_hippo]

I am sure the subtitles were badly needed, whats your point? I can't understand a Scotsman but I can tell he is a Scotsman because I can't understand him ...

So any accent that you do not understand you assume that he is a Scot? What's my point? Those educated people thought that the dialogue was in Greek.

[Jingthing]

I am sure the subtitles were badly needed, whats your point? I can't understand a Scotsman but I can tell he is a Scotsman because I can't understand him ...

So any accent that you do not understand you assume that he is a Scot? NO What's my point? Those educated people thought that the dialogue was in Greek. YEAH, SURE THEY DID.

[qualtrough]

Just listen to their language/accents and most educated people with curiosity about the world could guess mostly right. As you all know, I am no genius, and I can usually tell the nationality of most anyone I encounter if I just hear them talk. Russians are farangs. Argentinians are farangs. Alot in common those two peoples (not)!

Sounds like a lot of denial/excuse making for the the basic fact of Thai insularity. Without it, Thailand wouldn't be the Thailand most of us love, but lets see it for what it is.

So, you can instantly tell a Canadian from a Yank?

A Belgian from Flanders from a Dutchman?

A Belgian Walloon from a Frenchman?

A German from an Austrian from a Swiss German?

A Frenchman from a Belgian, or from someone from Swiss Romande?

A Spaniard from An Argentine?

.etc & .etc.

You are one heckuva linguist. Must be a cunning one at that!

[jetjock]

You are one heckuva linguist. Must be a cunning one at that!

I am sure that we have a lot of cunning linguist here in our group and I am proud to be part of that group !

[Jingthing]

You are one heckuva linguist. Must be a cunning one at that!

Just ask if it isn't obvious. Most of the time, it is obvious. You see what I am suggesting is that it is intellectual laziness (and/or poor education and insularity) and totally ignorant to group all foreign nationals with light skin in the same boat. I am not saying Thais should change, or that this is a problem for me personally or should be a problem for you, just calling a spade a spade. I once asked a Thai if he was a hill triber (because he looked like one and was from North Thailand) and he practically bit my head off, so within the provincial Thai perspecitive, they are well aware and care very much about these differences. Also, within Asia, Thais will generally be well aware the Burmese people aren't Thai, Cambodians aren't Thai, Indonesians aren't Thai. Vietnamese aren't Thai, etc. They don't call Asian looking people bananarangs, now do they?

But outside Thailand, all the amazingly diverse people from the plethora of world nations with light skinned humans are farangs. I find it hilarious that some people are offended by a simple statement of reality. I can see that Thais would be offended because what I am concluding is not very flattering, but most of us posting here are other nationalities.

Edited November 24, 2007 by Jingthing

[Dupont]

You are one heckuva linguist. Must be a cunning one at that!

Just ask if it isn't obvious. Most of the time, it is obvious. You see what I am suggesting is that it is intellectual laziness (and/or poor education and insularity) and totally ignorant to group all foreign nationals with light skin in the same boat. I am not saying Thais should change, or that this is a problem for me personally or should be a problem for you, just calling a spade a spade. I once asked a Thai if he was a hill triber (because he looked like one and was from North Thailand) and he practically bit my head off, so within the provincial Thai perspecitive, they are well aware and care very much about these differences. Also, within Asia, Thais will generally be well aware the Burmese people aren't Thai, Cambodians aren't Thai, Indonesians aren't Thai. Vietnamese aren't Thai, etc. They don't call Asian looking people bananarangs, now do they?

But outside Thailand, all the amazingly diverse people from the plethora of world nations with light skinned humans are farangs. I find it hilarious that some people are offended by a simple statement of reality. I can see that Thais would be offended because what I am concluding is not very flattering, but most of us posting here are other nationalities.

Thats just it though, all people with white skin are in the same boat.... they have white skin.. and if you want to refer to all people with white skin, you need a means (or a word) to do it. Falang fits the bill.

If I want to say that white skinned people should stay out of the sun because they have a high risk of skin cancer I need a means of saying white skinned people. Falang is a much shorter and easier way than saying "white skinned people".

"Falang" is certainly easier than saying

"indidgenous british residents, many canandian non indidgenous settlers, most early american unforced settlers, western russian, central european nationals (excluding immigrants, african or muslim interlopers left behind following a series of invasions, re-takings and holy war repercussions) australian immigrants (excluding possibly many of mediteranean or Asian decent), non indigenous new zealanders, etc. etc."

Or don't you think?

Please give us the correct term for white skinned people, if we wish to speak of white skinned people as a group. EG please re write the following phrase in abreviated form "white people"

Easy.... or is it?

[Jingthing]

You chose not to get my point. They aren't talking about skin cancer. They are bunching all our diverse CULTURES into one basket. Simple minded, isn't it?

You know, I am starting to think some of the defenses here of this Thai tendency towards insularity is a modern and condescending to Thais twist of the classic European romanticism of the "noble savage". Innocence and unworldly ignorance as proof of a great goodness. OK, I admit this is kind of off the wall, but interesting to me anyway.

The noble savage is dead. (He never existed.)

Edited November 24, 2007 by Jingthing

[meemiathai]

Jingthing, you really open my eyes. That there are indeed people who have such a way of thinking and logic. And that further ensures my belief that there will never be peace in this world.

Really really strange.

BTW, why did you not try to point out what those people were which was posted by, I think Mr Hippo?

[AGareth2]

There is a polite Thai word for westerners, however motorcycle taxi drivers and their ilk don't know it, so farang is what they say.

However when I worked at a Uni, the staff, never used the F word!

[Andrew Hicks]

Why do Western People Keep Obsessing About the Use of the Word 'Farang'?

Whether it is derogatory or the opposite depends on the speaker and the context in which it is used. It can cover the whole spectum of opinions.

A farang, like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[tartempion]

When in Europe I mention the word Caucasian I get a blanc stare also

To answer the OP's question: Farang means Caucasian in Thai, please consult your local dictionary.

Edited November 25, 2007 by tartempion

[tartempion]

I am sure the subtitles were badly needed, whats your point? I can't understand a Scotsman but I can tell he is a Scotsman because I can't understand him ...

In Flanders I speak Flemish and they don't know I am Walloon and in Wallonia I speak Walloon and they don't know I am Flemish.

So your pouint is?

THat I am Scotsman because you don't understand me?

[dantilley]

Why do Western People Keep Obsessing About the Use of the Word 'Farang'?

Whether it is derogatory or the opposite depends on the speaker and the context in which it is used. It can cover the whole spectum of opinions.

A farang, like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Exactly. Like the term "Yank" for Americans, usually a harmless colloquialism, but when spoken with real venom can be insulting. Same with Farrang, or "Bak-si-daa" as you will often find yourself being called if you go to the northeast of the country.

It's come into other farrangs' vocabulary over here by force of habit mainly and is usually completely harmless and a useful way of referring to us all together.

[Petesear]

Mostly I don't have a problem with the use of the word 'ferang', until people talk about speaking ferang. I don't speak white, I am, I speak English and I'm proud of that.

[RudyS]

The one Thai word that Westerners seem to use all the time, and crops up all over this forum, is "Farang". But isn't it almost meaningless and vaguely insulting to the countries and cultures we come from?

I have heard the F word used to mean English speakers. In BKK you often see taxis with a sticker in the window saying "I Love Farang", which means the driver speaks English. I suppose it mostly means Caucasian but can also mean people from the Western world who earn Western salaries.

When I have pointed out to Thai people that the majority of European countries are not English speaking, that many States of the US have more Spanish than English speakers and that there are millions of Asians, Africans, Hispanic people, Afro-Caribbeans, etc living in the Western world, they look blankly at me.

Isn't it a bit like a Westerner referring to a Thai (or any oriental person) as a "Chinky" and expecting them to speak Chinese.

The word seems to be based on an ignorance of the world outside Thailand. Not that this is their fault. Thai people have told me that in schools they get little or no education about the Western world, that a month's trip round Europe is just not financially viable for most people and that Thai TV is not exactly littered with educational documentaries on the world outside.

But why do we have to adopt the word?

In Singapore which is, dare I say it, a little more enlightened than Thailand, they use the word "Caucasian" to mean Caucasian and "English Speaker" to mean English Speaker. And of course they would mostly include themselves in the latter but not the former.

And as much as I dislike the word, I often find myself using it, turning to my Thai girlfriend and saying "farang yuk mak mak" or "Farang kon dio".

So why do we use it? Are we being ironic? Are we mocking Thai people and their ignorance of the outside world? Are we showing that we have mastered at least one word of the local lingo? Are we enjoying being disrespectful to ourselves and our cultures? Or is it just a case of "When in Rome..."?

Actually there are not "many" states in the USA with more Spanish speakers than English speakers.

Actually there are not "any" states with more Spanish speakers than Englsih speakers. In Texas, N.M., and California

there are more people of Hispanic descent but most of them are bi-lingual. English speaking people are still the majority

in all 50 states.

[alyx]

Just to let you know that the origin of the word FARANG comes from the French "Français" (pronouce Farancé becoming Farang sé and then Farang)

Thai Nationals took on the habit to consider that word as designating any caucasian

This stayed on: of course to our culture it seems to be rude to be called by one's ethnic details but well a cat is cat You will notice that this appelation tends to disappear in middle to upper class and unless one wants to mock you (and the tone should be sufficient to make the difference) no harm is meant

If you are offended by the word Farang (which you now know the origin) what would you say when a salespersonn or a guard calls you shouting 'You You" Well outside of Thailand it would be deemed quite rude: just know that Thai people call each other's attention byb saying 'Khun Khun' meaning sir Mrs or a polite way to say 'You'

We have so many things to learn from everyone from the point of the culture that we should not waste time getting offended Let s not be sensitive where there is no reason to be

[apex2000]

As I see it, the word 'farang' is the Thai way of saying 'foreign' in English. There are many English words in Thai and the sound of the English word is changed due to the Thai spelling of the word.

[Jingthing]

As I see it, the word 'farang' is the Thai way of saying 'foreign' in English. There are many English words in Thai and the sound of the English word is changed due to the Thai spelling of the word.

Foreign AND white skinned, not the same as just foreign.

[Ave]

what's all this fuss about it. I thought that farang comes from 'farangseht'=french, then the word assumed a derogatory meaning but not anymore as far as I'm given to understand. The Thais that I know, literate and illiterate ones say that it's just a practical way of addressing us and that it is no longer considered offensive. I use it too sometimes but not with very high level people. They know it's more pc to call us...what is the appropriate expression? See? I can't remember therefore I use farang..

[keekwai]

Could be reffered to as 'dam farang' (black farang).

Farang Si Dahm is the term I've always heard. I 've also heard them just use the word "negro" a lot too.

[Ave]

Negro is the original name the Spanish and the Italians still call them with. If in the English language this has changed it doesn't mean the latinoes have to change too at least in their own countries.

[Ave]

In Italy they are also called 'di colore' = of colour but then this term is now also considered non pc..

[qualtrough]

You chose not to get my point. They aren't talking about skin cancer. They are bunching all our diverse CULTURES into one basket. Simple minded, isn't it?

You know, I am starting to think some of the defenses here of this Thai tendency towards insularity is a modern and condescending to Thais twist of the classic European romanticism of the "noble savage". Innocence and unworldly ignorance as proof of a great goodness. OK, I admit this is kind of off the wall, but interesting to me anyway.

The noble savage is dead. (He never existed.)

Stop setting up a straw man argument here. As far as I have read here nobody is defending the Thai's for being insular. What I, and many others, are defending is their right to term those termed white, caucasian, or European 'farang.' Your idea that people should always be referred to by their nationality or culture and that this is instantly and easily determinable is both hare-brained and wrong.

[meadish_sweetball]

There are of course a lot of bad things in thailand but at least I can tell you the word "farang" is not one of them.

And this speaking from a person born and grown up in Asia.

Your opinion. I actually think outsiders can see the bad things about a culture much more clearly than natives. Nose picking. Oppressive class structure. Kleptocracy. The word farang, I do think it is one of the very mild negative things and isn't worth any kind of crusade or even commenting about to Thais. The word can be used innocently and it can be used in an insulting way, but it still reflects a very unsophisticated world view. Which the flip side (sorry Pinoys) is that it can be quite charming to live among un-PC-people. As to why we use the word, we use it because the Thais use it and we are in Thailand. If they didn't use it, we would just refer to the same group as either white people, caucasions, European descent people, or by their nationality. One problem with us here is very few of us are on the road to ever being Thai. In that sense, we are a race apart from Chinese Thais and Indian Thais.

Whats the point of just posting Yes, or No, without expressing why you think that way?

The issue of whether the word is derogatory or not is not one of opinion, anyone who speaks, reads and understands Thai well enough will know you are wrong. Unfortunately many seem more interested in perpetuating myths and misunderstandings than actually learning something useful.

Qualthrough and madjbs have already explained how the word works. The word CAN be used in negative contexts, but that does not mean it always is, and nor does it mean it is derogatory per se.

It's possible to call somebody a 'European idiot', 'Scandinavian son-of-a-bitch', 'clueless American lowlife' and 'ugly German slob' too, but it doesn't make the words 'European', 'Scandinavian', 'American' or 'German' derogatory, except for people who don't understand how to interpret those phrases correctly.

If you want to keep clinging to incorrect ideas about the word, feel free, but don't expect others to take you seriously.

As I see it, the word 'farang' is the Thai way of saying 'foreign' in English. There are many English words in Thai and the sound of the English word is changed due to the Thai spelling of the word.

Another common misconception. The word 'farang' is definitely not an English loan. People from other countries in Asia or from Africa are not called 'farang' by Thais.

The general term for 'foreigner' is chaao/khon dtaang chaad/bpratheed. Back translated literally, it means "person other country".

[meadish_sweetball]

Could be reffered to as 'dam farang' (black farang).

Farang Si Dahm is the term I've always heard. I 've also heard them just use the word "negro" a lot too.

'dam farang' is ungrammatical. Unlike English, Thai places the description after the thing described, so it should be 'farang dam'.

I've heard 'farang dam', and 'khon phiw dam', 'khon aefrikaa' and 'negro'. The most common ones seems to be 'khon phiw dam', and 'khon aefrikaa'.

To answer the OP, I use 'farang' when I speak Thai because it is the common, everyday word used to refer to Westerners and Western culture by Thais. If I talk to officials, I speak about 'khon yuroop', 'chaao dtawan dtok', 'khon amerikaa' etc. depending on the context.

I usually don't use the word farang so much when I speak English, because I am not a fan of pidgin.

[JimsKnight]

Its best to take off the politically correct hat at the immigration line. Otherwise, it could drive you batty. The use of the word farang is just the start of it. Thailand is a double edged sword, we wouldn't have the good things without the bad things. If they become completely like the west, as Singapore kind of is, whats the attraction?

Agree totally, that this subject is even raised tells me the op is pretty new to Thailand...

[Jingthing]

Your idea that people should always be referred

You have failed to read my posts, Mr. Straw Man.

I NEVER said they SHOULD do anything or change anything.

I am just observing what I think the fact that the Thais mostly group all of the diverse countries that are populated with whiter people into one bag o' farangs tells US about THEM. Contrast that with how they do NOT mix the bag of Asian countries into one generic bag. You could make an argument this is a kind of racism; I will leave it up to individuals to decide on that can of worms.

Edited November 25, 2007 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

If you want to keep clinging to incorrect ideas about the word, feel free, but don't expect others to take you seriously.

You are correct. I am incorrect. I get it now. (How arrogant!)

BTW, read my posts, I said before quite clearly it can be used both neutrally or as an insult. And I didn't need an Asian studies scholar to get that very quickly here. You can feel it on the streets.

Edited November 25, 2007 by Jingthing