I Took My Old Employer To Court

[donna]

well, some of you may have followed my story which started six months ago when i was dismissed from my place of employment for no reason other than 'the head office doesnt want a farang doing this job'.

a very brief rundown of what has happened to me in the past six months is as follows:

i started work for a hotel in phuket on june 15, 2006. i did a great job, increased room revenue by 24% for the first five months of 2007, did things over and above my job description and was liked by my fellow employees and hotel guests. in fact, many hotel guests have become friends of mine now.

on june 13 this year, at close of business, i was told that i was no longer needed, give back the car keys and dont come in tomorrow. of course i was devastated and didnt really know what to do next. i consulted people from this forum who persuaded me to take this matter to court as there were laws to protect me against this kind of treatment.

i went to court for the first time where the hotel GM did not turn up, so the case was adjourned. my lawyer in bkk also stood me up so i was left floundering with no representation at the last minute which made me feel like an idiot but luckily the case was adjourned at the hotels instigation.

i then found a local lawyer here in phuket and went to court again on november 8 where the hotels team picked up on a minor thing in the original submission by the lawyer in saw in bkk and made a big deal out of it. they said that the bkk lawyer had stated that my contract did not have an end date, where in actual fact it did. this stupid error on his part made it seem impossible for me to win the case.

on that day, the hotel offered me 10,000thb to settle on the day and end the story. of course i did not agree to this, as i know by the law that i was entitled to a lot more than this and the 10,000thb did not even cover my legal fees.

at the end of that second hearing, i was feeling very 'woe is me' at the end as the judge and the lawyer for the hotel were very nasty and threatening in the way they spoke to me and my lawyer. but i stuck to my guns and would not withdraw the case, knowing that i should be able to win.

as we were sitting outside, a gentleman approached us and told us that there should be no problem with me winning this case. the reason is that the work i was doing was not a special project and was part of the every day running of the hotel business. he told me that i should win the case when i next went back, which was december 4, today. i later found out that this man was a judge (who was not working on my case, but who did say that everyone in the labour court knew of my case).

so, today we went back and i had the hotels old HR manager on my team, as well as their old financial controller, for moral support. after an initial debate about the way my contract was translated differently by each team, the judges went out the back for a coffee and discussion. then they came out all guns blazing saying that the hotel was clearly wrong in this case and that i had every right to sue them and win. the hotel cannot just fire me for no reason and that they should pay me 3 months salary as compensation.

as i had only been there for a year, the judge would not award damages, nor would he award me 30 days in lieu of notice, but i was very happy to just win the case and know that i was not living in a fantasy world thinking that i could sue a thai business and win. of course, i had the option of taking it higher if i wanted to, but this would have taken around a year to process and the legal fees would have been higher than the payout (i suspect), so i was more than happy to accept what they offered me today.

the judge told us to shake hands, and the gm of the hotel sat there with her hands firmly in her lap with her lips pursed and said 'mai aow' when i extended my hand to her. a member of her team then offered me his hand to shake and i accepted this. i also told the gm that i did not have any problem with her at all (she was not there when i was employed by the hotel). the gm ignored me and i feel that she did not do herself any favours in doing this.

the judge then asked me what i was planning to do now and i told him that i may just take a holiday and pehaps return to australia or whatever. he told me 'donna, always remember that you did not do anything wrong here. the hotel did the wrong thing and if you want to remain in phuket you can do so knowing that you are welcome on the island'. what a lovely man. (i must point out that this was said in the courtroom in front of everyone).

so, for anybody who has issues with an employer, i encourage you to stand your ground. seek out a good lawyer and do not be intimidated at all. the hotel tried to intimidate me by speaking to me like i was a piece of s*&t in the court room, but i did not lose heart. i stood by what i knew was right and by the fact that i did not do anything wrong.

i may be a non thai, but the law protected me as it would a thai person and i am thankful for that. for all of you who think that there is no justice for us westerners in this country, im happy to tell you that you are wrong.

[sbk]

Great news! Congratulations and I am so pleased to hear about your success.

[LeungKen]

'

I have always been a sucker for a happy ending, but this is up there with the best of them.

Cheers Donna and Congratulations.

[Old Croc]

Congratulations Donna! Any comments from you-know-who?

[PhilHarries]

Congrats donna, it's real nice to hear of a farang taking on a section of the Thai establishment and winning.

[Tywais]

'

I have always been a sucker for a happy ending, but this is up there with the best of them.

Cheers Donna and Congratulations.

I second that! Good to see corporate got it's ears pinned for wronging you.

[Boo]

What great news Donna, good for you for doing the right thing & sticking up for your rights. Many people would have walked away & moaned about it but you stuck to your guns & it may not be a massive financial victory but it is a huge moral one.

[PeaceBlondie]

Good for you, Donna! I know somebody who's suing their former employer, and it's taking well over a year, but I think it will be successful, too.

[donna]

thanks for the congratulations everyone. i feel extremely satisfied that i stuck to my guns and that justice was served.

[taxexile]

well done , good to hear that justice is alive and well , and that in spite of what we read and hear , falangs here dont always come off second best.

the reaction of the hotel gm is quite telling also.

they obviously didnt like the idea of a falang able to do the job successfully.

you wouldnt like to name the hotel would you ????

[donna]

not sure if i should name them on this forum, but i have sent you a pm with the name. i am happy to tell anyone via pm if you want to know.

[JimmyTheMook]

not sure if i should name them on this forum, but i have sent you a pm with the name. i am happy to tell anyone via pm if you want to know.

Good for you ! Hope the folks who did this you learned a valuable lesson.

[Andiamo]

Great news Donna! Good on you for persevering when many would have given up or felt too intimidated.

We have never met but I followed your original thread about your dismissal (and other threads of yours - not that I'm stalking you honest! ) Anyway, it is wonderful to hear that you won the case. Also that the Judge clearly demonstrated that you were in the right.

Enjoy your well deserved celebrations! You go girl!

[bendix]

Good to hear the outcome as we've pm'd about this for a while. I think three months is a very fair settlement, and the judge's comments are a real bonus.

There's a lesson here. Most employees in Thailand (farang and Thai) simply do not know their rights when it comes to termination. Frankly, neither do the employers. Arm yourself with information and stick to your guns and you'll do fine.

Well done.

[donna]

thanks bendix. and thankyou so much for your advice earlier on. without you i would have lost the momentum to carry on with the case. i owe you at least seven beers.

my case also clearly shows that the employer did not know the law, and nor did their lawyer. my lawyer in phuket, however, did know the law and did not back down. shes a tiny little thing, but a tough cookie, and both of us dug our heels in and it paid off.

[Oleg_Rus]

While it is a great news, may I ask simple question :

What for **** hel_l are we so cheerful ? That we know that this country has a law system ? Dah ? XXI century, digital age - and the REALLY OBVIOUS CASE of DONNA is not a 8th Wonder. Surely she should win, just take a point and as she says "stuck to my guns" (kinda wierd for a woman, though).

Good for you, truly congratulations and sorry it took so long. I've been in the same sh*t, feels bad.

PS> btw, 24% up - marketing ?

[TakingAVacation]

Winning in court is only half the battle. Collecting the judgement is an entirely different matter (does Thai law have a 'writ of execution' function for this?)...

Congrats on your fight. Hope you see the money...

[Andiamo]

While it is a great news, may I ask simple question :

What for **** hel_l are we so cheerful ? That we know that this country has a law system ? Dah ? XXI century, digital age - and the REALLY OBVIOUS CASE of DONNA is not a 8th Wonder. Surely she should win, just take a point and as she says "stuck to my guns" (kinda wierd for a woman, though).

Good for you, truly congratulations and sorry it took so long. I've been in the same sh*t, feels bad.

PS> btw, 24% up - marketing ?

I presume that she is happy and cheerful because of the Positive verdict in HER favour. To my knowledge, the Courts here in Thailand are not particularily well-known for siding on the side of the Foreigner ....

I stand to be corrected......if misunderstood.

[donna]

i have a document with me which states that the hotel will present themselves at a bank in phuket at 3pm on the 19th with a cashiers cheque. this document is signed by myself, my lawyer, the three member judging panel, the hotel gm and their lawyer.

i will send the hotel GM an email confirming that they will be there and if they do not show up, my lawyer will receive a phone call at 3.05pm, after which she will contact the court.

Oleg_Rus, the 24% was due to yield management. knowing when to increase/decrease rates according to supply and demand basically. its a game really, but one that i feel i played well.

[madjbs]

While it is a great news, may I ask simple question :

What for **** hel_l are we so cheerful ? That we know that this country has a law system ? Dah ? XXI century, digital age - and the REALLY OBVIOUS CASE of DONNA is not a 8th Wonder. Surely she should win, just take a point and as she says "stuck to my guns" (kinda wierd for a woman, though).

Good for you, truly congratulations and sorry it took so long. I've been in the same sh*t, feels bad.

PS> btw, 24% up - marketing ?

I presume that she is happy and cheerful because of the Positive verdict in HER favour. To my knowledge, the Courts here in Thailand are not particularily well-known for siding on the side of the Foreigner ....

I stand to be corrected......if misunderstood.

This "Thais always win" thing seems to be an urban myth to me and Donna's case goes to prove that. Great result Donna and it's great that the Judge felt he should mention those comments.

[dog412]

While it is a great news, may I ask simple question :

What for **** hel_l are we so cheerful ? That we know that this country has a law system ? Dah ? XXI century, digital age - and the REALLY OBVIOUS CASE of DONNA is not a 8th Wonder. Surely she should win, just take a point and as she says "stuck to my guns" (kinda wierd for a woman, though).

Good for you, truly congratulations and sorry it took so long. I've been in the same sh*t, feels bad.

PS> btw, 24% up - marketing ?

I presume that she is happy and cheerful because of the Positive verdict in HER favour. To my knowledge, the Courts here in Thailand are not particularily well-known for siding on the side of the Foreigner ....

I stand to be corrected......if misunderstood.

This "Thais always win" thing seems to be an urban myth to me and Donna's case goes to prove that. Great result Donna and it's great that the Judge felt he should mention those comments.

without knowing more of the facts, i'm not sure that the hotel did not win MORE. 3months salary minus whatever she would have been legally entitled to under labor laws, and whatever court costs, they gained valuable knowledge due to her professionalism. she taught them, if they were listening. why was the position not mandated to be offered back to her?

[donna]

because if they did offer me the position, they would lose more face than they already lost.

also, the gm of the hotel would rather have malaria than be in the same room as me after this case (not that i have any personal problem with her but she did behave very childish in the courtroom for all to see)

i would not want to work at the hotel under the current management as the staff are running away in droves. not what a hotel manager needs right on the eve of peak season.

since this gm has been there, the following staff have left:

2 front office managers

1 front office supervisor

1 HR manager

1 accounts payable

1 engineer

1 housekeeping manager

1 financial controller

with many more on the way out the door.

[dog412]

because if they did offer me the position, they would lose more face than they already lost.

also, the gm of the hotel would rather have malaria than be in the same room as me after this case (not that i have any personal problem with her but she did behave very childish in the courtroom for all to see)

i would not want to work at the hotel under the current management as the staff are running away in droves. not what a hotel manager needs right on the eve of peak season.

since this gm has been there, the following staff have left:

2 front office managers

1 front office supervisor

1 HR manager

1 accounts payable

1 engineer

1 housekeeping manager

1 financial controller

with many more on the way out the door.

i'm glad that you did take this as far as you did. however, what i am trying to say is that the judges should NOT be taking into consideration the "face saving" aspect of the plaintiff or defendant. you won your case and should have been offered the position back, at your discretion. at their discretion, the hotel would now be at a position to offer "suitable" compensation to "avoid" loss of face, by PAYING YOU OFF.

[kiakaha]

the gm of the hotel sat there with her hands firmly in her lap with her lips pursed and said 'mai aow' when i extended my hand to her.

I can also concur from working in BKK 11 years now, that for some Thai women in higher positions, when the time comes to show their true colors, they prove to have the maturity level of a 7 year old child not getting the latest toy for Xmas.

[Prakanong]

"Oleg_Rus, the 24% was due to yield management. knowing when to increase/decrease rates according to supply and demand basically. its a game really, but one that i feel i played well."

Its not a game Donna - its sound economics and it looks like you are very good at it - well done

Congratulations on winning the court case too.

[kudroz]

That is so refreshing, and what a nice thing the judge said in front of everyone!

Congratulations, you did well.

[astral]

Well done, Donna.

[BambinA]

Good job P' Donna

[Dupont]

because if they did offer me the position, they would lose more face than they already lost.

since this gm has been there, the following staff have left:

2 front office managers

1 front office supervisor

1 HR manager

1 accounts payable

1 engineer

1 housekeeping manager

1 financial controller

with many more on the way out the door.

Well done and nice to see them loose face.

This is a classic Thai management newcomers trick. Get shot of everybody, starting with the most proficient, as they are the ones most likely to show them up for the dolts they often are.

Its then a simple case of getting friends and family on the payroll carrying out jobs they are totally unfit for.

More people should follow your example instead of moaning on about unfairness in the system.

Again (and most importantly) well done.

[jdinasia]

Congrats Donna! you are my hero!