Two Tourists In Pai Shot By A Police Officer

[Khun ?]

Wow that looks like a big big bandage area over the scrape or scratch.

From looks alone of the people involved and knowing I was in the golden triangle I would of been more scared by

the Canadians.....

[permanent_disorder]

if we have peoples with (tribal) tattoos involved we could also quote Adolf Loos essay "Ornament and Crime". he wrotes: " The Papuans tattoo themselves, decorate their boats, their oars, everything they can get their hands on. But a modern man who tattooes himself is either a criminal or a degenerate. Why, there are prisons where eighty per cent of the convicts are tattooed, and tattooed men who are not in prison are either latent criminals or degenerate aristocrats. When a tattooed man dies at liberty, it simply means that he hasn't had time to commit his crime."

What the frik? Who said that Adolf Hitler what? Would you just STOP with the bizarre generalisations? Tattoos do not equal CRIMINALITY, having more than one boyfriend does not equal ASKING TO BE SHOT and all the other thoughts from 1906! Dang man, quit it already.

Oh my god... I was joking but that essay actually WAS from 1908.... talk about blind luck.... or maybe it was obvious in the ridiculousness of the ideas....

Damian

of course not, damian. easy to see that i used for is a overstatement. if someone tell us stories about that he went with the wife of a policeman to the university, i start to quote Adolf Loos. that is related in the same degree - null, zero niente.

adolf loos is an architect. he is the pioneer of modern architecture. his essay predates the ideas of le corbursier and the 'form follows function' movement and bauhaus days. is one of the most famous and influential manifests about architecture in the last century. people with a good educational background should know and see it. didn't you say you are one of them, ahh not you just hang out with them, right. seems to be not enough. even with out that background knowledge only an autistic monkey panda bear would take it for serious. i should start to use footnotes

and specially you, please stop to talking in that case about lying isaan hookers, beating on sukhumvit road and all that other crap you are talking because you know so much because someone told you. thats all generalisation. thats a freaking western narrow minded view, thinking to be superior. but superior you are not, not the society you came from nor you as a individual.

please, no more of topic rants from you and no more litmus test traps for stupids from me, okay?

[kat]

Your name should be "Permanent Distraction". Your points above are way off topic, and not relevant at all.

and you don't get my point again. i try to explain why things are off topic and give some examples.

all these have nothing to do with the singular case in pai.

how can damians stories about beating on suk&vomit road be on topic? how can a story 'i went to university with a police man wife' be here on topic und related to the singular caes in pai? and all these other stories.

please, if you feel you have to play the moderator don't do it lopsided and jump only on me.

you not agree with me, i have an other opinion then you.fine. but if you want discuss about that one with me, then please read my post more carefully.

to think outside the box. i explain my way to do it to you personally two times already.

my post start with a question "how is it related?" and ended with "imho all this have nothing to do with the individual case in Pai"

so can you explain how all these police stories are somehow related to the pai case? (beside that the do a favour for your point of view)

Because we are talking about the patterns of police enforcement and crimes in Thailand, and when relevant how it compares to elsewhere for perspective, not the sociology of tattoos amongst Papuans and neo-nazi propaganda on how they relate to criminality and non-ornamental architecture in a modern society!

I really don't care what you have to say in return as reading your posts are a waste of time and I'm putting you on ignore.

[permanent_disorder]

Wow that looks like a big big bandage area over the scrape or scratch.

From looks alone of the people involved and knowing I was in the golden triangle I would of been more scared by

the Canadians.....

we can not come to the logical conclusion from the look of some people to their real character.

look at the last canadian face we see in the newspapers in a thailand related case. that neat looking english teacher was evildoer.

but leo with his rasta hair and goatee seems to have been a nice friendly caring young man.

there is no evidence in that.

but when it come to make a decision in self-defence, when you are in fear and scared, have to act in a split of second, in that moment maybe the pai police man take his gun., because leo loke like someone you are be scared of. but pointing the gun that was wrong from him. and of course the police man have to face a justice.

i don't want apoligise the police man, i think he commit a punishable crime.

but for coming to justice we must also elicit why he commit that crime. why the bullets were shot is still unclear to me, there are a few more possible scenarios why it happen.

[Maestro]

...[the policeman] FLED the scene.

This is one of the few undisputed and non-contradicted facts in this case.

--

Maestro

[endure]

We mods have tried to be reasonable but you don't seem to want to respond so I will say it one more time. DO NOT post any more personally insulting remarks in this thread. Stick to the subject. THE NEXT MEMBER WHO POSTS INSULTING REMARKS WILL BE SUSPENDED FOR 7 DAYS - THAT'S A PROMISE.

[Lucifer]

Is it me, or does that police man look as if he's still drunk?

[DamianMavis]

Mods, I rewrote this to make it as nice as possible:

Permanent Disorder:

You do realise your posts are not entirely clear right? Theres nothing wrong with that of course and Im not intending to be insulting but how can you expect us to get your true meaning? All we are getting, over and over, is that you have alot of ideas that date back to the start of the 1900s, (people with tattoos are bad criminals, women that have more than one boyfriend in thier lives are bad and deserve bad things happening to them etc...). Now you are saying you are trying to prove a point by posting these statements and that you dont actually believe them, well your point is not easily discernible. We are talking about topics related to this case and the situation in Thailand and when you throw in things that dont seem related we dont see the connection and have no idea what you are getting at. Try to be patient with us.

Here is the actual quote you keep referring to: "No, unless I read this incorrectly? This is a falang woman, not bloody likely to lie against her murdered falang husband, even if she did cheat. This isnt some isaan hooker that can be pressured by her countries gangster police." This was in response to: "My bet is on the girl. If she's indeed pregnant from another guy she'll probably be coerced to testify against the dead canadian, putting all blame on him which will keep her & the cop out of prison. The police volunteer fund might even step in with a few donations for the future baby." I did not just randomly and off topic start talking about hookers from isaan lying.

I stated quite clearly that my friend (my close friend) was at the scene and saw the falang die at the cops roadside bar in front of landmark, he was right there and watched the mans brains spill out onto the ground after being savagely beaten in the head by a mob with sticks and bars (the bar staff). Nobody was held accountable as a cop owned the bar. This is relevant when discussing the lack of accountability for cops in Thailand.

Damian

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

<h3 class="western">Funeral held for Calgary man killed in Thailand</h3>

CALGARY -- Family members of a Canadian man shot and killed in Thailand early this month were overcome with grief Thursday as he was laid to rest.

Leo John Del Pinto, 24, died after being shot in the face and chest in the northern Thai town of Pai earlier this month

Del Pinto's father, mother, grandmother and two sisters sobbed as they touched the casket, draped in a white cloth before it was carried out of Our Lady of Grace Catholic Church.

"It was very hard to see my son for the last time at the funeral home but I have a little bit of closure because I know he's in a good place,'' said Ernie Del Pinto, talking to reporters at the family home in northwest Calgary.

"We all said goodbye. We put him in the hearse and I just feel so sad that my son had to die this way.''

AND:

Two Thai witnesses who were in the restaurant prior to the altercation involving Del Pinto and Reisig have now come forward, according to family spokesman Ross Fortune.

"Both have confirmed most of the details of Carly's story,'' said Ross Fortune. "It appears the off duty police officer did walk up and was not incited by anything Leo or Carly was doing.''

The biggest fear of the Del Pinto family that the officer, who is reportedly taking part in the investigation, will not face justice.

Fortune is hopeful the two new witnesses will make the difference.

"They've vowed to testify in the court case which we expect to happen within the next 30 days. The justice system is very swift there,'' he said.

"The investigation should be wrapping up very quickly and within 30 days this individual will be brought forward to stand trial.''

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...0117?hub=Canada

[PhilHarries]

Two Thai witnesses who were in the restaurant prior to the altercation involving Del Pinto and Reisig have now come forward, according to family spokesman Ross Fortune.

"Both have confirmed most of the details of Carly's story,'' said Ross Fortune. "It appears the off duty police officer did walk up and was not incited by anything Leo or Carly was doing.''

If true, we have two very courageous folks out there. I just hope they have the protection they need prior to, and after, the trial.

[Jai Dee]

Funeral held for Calgary man killed in Thailand

Family members of a Canadian man shot and killed in Thailand early this month were overcome with grief Thursday as he was laid to rest.

Leo John Del Pinto, 24, died after being shot in the face and chest in the northern Thai town of Pai earlier this month

Del Pinto's father, mother, grandmother and two sisters sobbed as they touched the casket, draped in a white cloth before it was carried out of Our Lady of Grace Catholic Church.

"It was very hard to see my son for the last time at the funeral home but I have a little bit of closure because I know he's in a good place,'' said Ernie Del Pinto, talking to reporters at the family home in northwest Calgary.

"We all said goodbye. We put him in the hearse and I just feel so sad that my son had to die this way.''

Del Pinto's family believes he was shot at point-blank range while defending his friend Carly Reisig of Chilliwack, B.C., after a man punched her in the head.

A Thai police officer has been charged with premeditated murder in the shooting death of Del Pinto, who was 24, and with "intent to kill'' in the wounding of Reisig.

But the officer was released on bail less than a day after Del Pinto's death.

Reisig, who also shot in the chest during the altercation and is recovering in a Thai hospital, has said she is worried about her safety and that of her Thai boyfriend, who also witnessed the shootings.

And while the priest conducting the funeral service was preaching the importance of forgiveness, that is something the grieving father is finding difficult.

"You know, the father's sermon was fantastic. The forgiveness part? I'm going to say I forgive but I don't forget because it's hard. Shot cold dead...how could you possibly forgive a guy like this or forget?''.

"I'm Catholic but this man has got to be brought to justice. I don't care if he gets the death penalty,'' he added. "I'm still angry. It's just bundled up. I'm angry at everything.''

Hundreds of people crowded into the church and others stood outside the doors listening to the service.

"My son had a lot of friends. If he was a bad kid we wouldn't have had these people. These people there didn't come for me, these people came for Leo.''

Two Thai witnesses who were in the restaurant prior to the altercation involving Del Pinto and Reisig have now come forward, according to family spokesman Ross Fortune.

"Both have confirmed most of the details of Carly's story,'' said Ross Fortune. "It appears the off duty police officer did walk up and was not incited by anything Leo or Carly was doing.''

The biggest fear of the Del Pinto family that the officer, who is reportedly taking part in the investigation, will not face justice.

Fortune is hopeful the two new witnesses will make the difference.

"They've vowed to testify in the court case which we expect to happen within the next 30 days. The justice system is very swift there,'' he said.

"The investigation should be wrapping up very quickly and within 30 days this individual will be brought forward to stand trial.''

Source: The Canadian Press - 18 January 2008

[sriracha john]

sounds like quite a turnout for the funeral...

Ernesto Del Pinto, holds a photo of his son, Leo Del Pinto

Hundreds of mourners crowd Calgary church for funeral of man killed in Thailand

CALGARY - Family members of a Canadian man shot and killed in Thailand early this month were overcome with grief Thursday as he was laid to rest.

http://www.canadaeast.com/front/article/186017

[Arkady]

Two Thai witnesses who were in the restaurant prior to the altercation involving Del Pinto and Reisig have now come forward, according to family spokesman Ross Fortune.

"Both have confirmed most of the details of Carly's story,'' said Ross Fortune. "It appears the off duty police officer did walk up and was not incited by anything Leo or Carly was doing.''

If true, we have two very courageous folks out there. I just hope they have the protection they need prior to, and after, the trial.

Interesting development. It is not clear which restaurant these witnesses were in but it seems to imply they were at Dang's outside which the shootings took place. The other accounts don't indicate to my recollection whether the altercation or play fighting (depending on which version) between Del Pinto and Reisig was a static affair that took place entirely outside Dang's or started further up the road and culminated outside Dang's. In the the latter case, witnesses at Dang's wouldn't have seen the whole thing and this may or maybe not be relevant. Whichever, it will be interesting to see whether these witnesses would actually testify largely in support of Reisig's version, if, indeed, Fortune's information is really correct. My guess is that they will not.

They will not certainly not have any protection and they and their families would be extremely vulnerable for years after testifying against a cop. Even for big racketeering cases Thailand has no witness protection program. I remember this being discussed in the media a few years ago during Thaksin's "war against organized crime" which failed to net any big fish. Government funding was a stumbling block.

[kat]

Yes, it is an interesting development. I hope the family is correct, but my guess is that it is much too early to predict the outcome of this new information. I wish them all the best.

[Arkady]

"They've vowed to testify in the court case which we expect to happen within the next 30 days. The justice system is very swift there,'' he said.

"The investigation should be wrapping up very quickly and within 30 days this individual will be brought forward to stand trial.''

Source: The Canadian Press - 18 January 2008

The justice system can be very swift like the Katherine Horton murder case where convictions followed within two weeks or it can drag on for decades like the Sherry Ann Duncan murder case which took about 20 years and ended with the wealthy suspect finally being acquitted by the Supreme Court. If they want to be fast in a relatively straightforward case where there is no doubt about who pulled the trigger, they can be. Let's hope Fortune is right about this.

[Arkady]

I hesitate to point this out for fear of being criticized for failing to respect Thai culture by the many highly assimilated members of TV but I just noticed that in the photograph of Sgt Uthai displaying the minute scratch to his right elbow you can see from the fresh looking white strings attached to his right wrist that he had very recently participated in a merit making ceremony. I think I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread the effectiveness of merit making in resolving moral dilemmas and guilt that might otherwise be suffered by Thais who kill. This is well illustrated in the autobiography of the Corrections Department executioner who retired a few years ago when lethal executions replaced shooting the condemned from behind a canvas screen, making his skills redundant.

[kat]

Yes, I noticed that too, Arkady, and it looks like he is wearing a protective amulet.

[TAWP]

He probably did go through that since he know he did wrong. He is most likely not a coldblooded killer. He is a man with improper training working for a police force with poor oversight where they can behave badly with impunity. He knows he did wrong. He fled the scene.

[Kerryd]

Two Thai witnesses who were in the restaurant prior to the altercation involving Del Pinto and Reisig have now come forward, according to family spokesman Ross Fortune.

"Both have confirmed most of the details of Carly's story,'' said Ross Fortune. "It appears the off duty police officer did walk up and was not incited by anything Leo or Carly was doing.''

If true, we have two very courageous folks out there. I just hope they have the protection they need prior to, and after, the trial.

I find it interesting that we are hearing this not from a source in Thailand, but from the (self-appointed ?) family spokesman in Canada.

Has anyone heard a similar report from a Thai (i.e. news) source ?

[Claymore]

Two Thai witnesses who were in the restaurant prior to the altercation involving Del Pinto and Reisig have now come forward, according to family spokesman Ross Fortune.

"Both have confirmed most of the details of Carly's story,'' said Ross Fortune. "It appears the off duty police officer did walk up and was not incited by anything Leo or Carly was doing.''

If true, we have two very courageous folks out there. I just hope they have the protection they need prior to, and after, the trial.

I find it interesting that we are hearing this not from a source in Thailand, but from the (self-appointed ?) family spokesman in Canada.

Has anyone heard a similar report from a Thai (i.e. news) source ?

Yes. According to Andrew Drummond quite early on in this investigation two people came forward to support Carly's story and even went to see her in hospital, but at that time they were scared to give evidence, or go on the record. He did not mention this in his stories but strongly hinted in his 'Letter to the Nation' that the credibility of two other Thai witnesses was being contradicted - and that there was (with one I believe) a link to police. He told me that if what they were saying was true he did not want to scare them off, or let them be interefered with, at this stage by going public locally. I guess he thinks its unfortunate this has come out now.

This may be one of the reasons that he regretted publishing some of the background on Carly, even though it has been substantiated. But on that I am just guessing.

Ross Fortune is fiance of one of Leo's sisters. The family have appointed him as their spokesman. Seems understandable enough.

[LoveDaBlues]

OMIBUDDHA

Did you see the photo of the cop? They beat the crap out of that guy! His face was mangled! And the giant cuts on his elbow; how many stitches......100's I bet.

pathetic little man

[lannarebirth]

It would be interesting to know the circumstances of the polceman's "photo op". Understandable if in the context of his defense counsel trying to get his "story" out. If it is the police presenting the story, than it is clear that they consider him as someone to defend rather to investigate and bring to judgement.

[Claymore]

It would be interesting to know the circumstances of the polceman's "photo op". Understandable if in the context of his defense counsel trying to get his "story" out. If it is the police presenting the story, than it is clear that they consider him as someone to defend rather to investigate and bring to judgement.

I guess so if police so far only interviewed defence witnesses

[Maxi101]

I understand the grieve of this family - but I am sure they don't understand what risks those witnesses are taking if this is indeed true.

Here again the clash of realities.

I hope the best for them.

RIP

maxi

[DamianMavis]

This makes me so sad, those witnesses will not testify when it counts. Watch.

Damian

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

Has anyone found out whether the cop had an automatic or a revolver? If anyone here knows Andrew Drummond perhaps he might be able to find out.

[ataloss]

Andrew Drummond is a famous sensationalist

And the basis for this pronouncement would be?

Stupid comment at best and quite insupportable.

The chap is a first rate journo and a great ally to those who have had need of his help.

In terms of credibility one can generally dispense with the salt when reading his work.

Thanks 'gent' for replying to the 'seonai' disinformation on A Drummond. Also, the previous article detailing the location of his abode is akin to incitement to harm - Not good! He may have to move now. Why do these malicious brain-dead species surface so often on TV?

[DamianMavis]

An excellent question but one with no answer I'm afraid.

Damian

[lannarebirth]

Has anyone found out whether the cop had an automatic or a revolver? If anyone here knows Andrew Drummond perhaps he might be able to find out.

Answered by sabaijai in his post here:

QUOTE (sabaijai @ 2008-01-15 01:53:43)

Some news from Pai.

1. It has been confirmed by police, and corroborated by two civilian witnesses willing to go on record, that on the previous occasion where Carly Reisig struck local police, she had been fighting with her former Thai boyfriend, Nui.

According to the owner of Be-Bop, the fight began inside his bar around midnight. He called the police, who arrived and asked the couple to leave the bar. Carly pushed one of the officers and kneed another, according to the owner and another witness, a local Thai musician (who she also struck, during the melee). The police then escorted Carly and Nui outside to cool off. Outside between Be-Bop and Grooveyard, they continued screaming at each other according to an American resident of Pai who was outside when the events took place. Police arrested the couple and took them to the station for drug tests. The tests were negative and the couple was released shortly thereafter, uncharged. According to the police, and to eyewitnesses at the station that night, the police asked them both to leave town and never come back. They left town and Nui never came back. Reisig soon returned.

2. There is one witness from Daeng's claiming that Feun (Reisig's current boyfriend) started the fight that resulted in Sgt Maj Uthai's approach. This witness is willing to go on record and be named, and has no apparent connection to the police.

3. A Canadian journalist here (now in BKK) told one of the editors of the Pai Post that the police allowed him to handle the policeman's pistol, which had already been dusted for prints and remanded as evidence. He said it was a double-action semi-automatic fitted with a hair trigger.

4. So far none of the foreign journalists who have come to Pai to follow this story have stayed longer than one night.

Edited January 18, 2008 by lannarebirth

[Arkady]

He probably did go through that since he know he did wrong. He is most likely not a coldblooded killer. He is a man with improper training working for a police force with poor oversight where they can behave badly with impunity. He knows he did wrong. He fled the scene.

I agree with you that this is quite likely the case, although he probably deserves severe punishment for unjusitifiable homicide. On the other I think the merit making and amulets are standard operating procedure for the hardened killers too. No doubt the death squads in the war against drugs spent a small percentage of their "fees" on merit making and amulets to absolve their guilt and ward off the ghosts of their victims. It seems too simple but then confession in the Catholic church is not totally dissimilar.