Australian Aged Pension

[KhunHeineken]

32 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You're posting opinions on what will happen, not facts. It may or may not happen.

It's proposed legislation.  Is that a fact, or not?  

 

How many links do you need to see showing you this?  Where's the "opinion" in it.  There were proposed by the Liberal government and they are in Labor's "in tray."  Link provided for this also.  

 

Can you post a link that shows I have made the proposed changes up, or it's all fake news? 

 

35 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Nothing wrong with having an opinion. It's when said opinion is repeated 100 times on the same thread that it gets on everybody's wick.

I've posted link after link after link.  Where's the "opinion."  The proposed changes are there for you to see. 

 

Sure, we can discuss law interpretation, tax minimization strategy etc, but to say the proposed changes is just  my "opinion" is BS.  It's all over the internet from credible sources, even the government's.

 

Proposed changes - fact.  Links provided.

 

Pensions are income - fact.  Links provided.

 

Pensions are taxable - fact.  Links provided. 

 

No tax free threshold for non residents - fact.  Links provided.

 

Show me where the above is just my "opinion." 

[KhunHeineken]

14 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

What does 470 times do?

 

And yet, just an hour ago, a member was still under the belief the tax free threshold still applies to non residents for tax purposes.

 

How many members still believe the proposed changes are only for guys like Paul Hogan, and if you still have a Medicare Card you are still a resident for tax purposes. 

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I have a pink Thai ID card.

Given the amount of stuff I had to do to get that, I'd say residency is only available to a miniscule proportion of expats.

Example re Permanent Residency (or it's official nomenclature 'Thai Lifetime Certificate of Rsidency' (not to be confused with a Certificate of Residence letter to confirm your address in Thailand to get a Thai drivers license etc., which has the same name but is a totally different matter).

 

I got Thai lifetime PR 27 years ago (yes ancient history and some things change or get adjusted).

 

At that time the maximum number of foreigners who could be approved for lifetime PR in any one year was 50 per countrry.

 

The year I got it the total number of approvals for applicants from my country was 5.

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by scorecard

[Lacessit]

17 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Example re Permanent Residency (or it's official nomenclature 'Thai Lifetime Certificate of Rsidency' (not to be confused with a Certificate of Residence letter to confirm your address in Thailand to get a Thai drivers license etc., which has the same name but is a totally different matter).

 

I got Thai lifetime PR 27 years ago (yes ancient history and some things change or get adjusted).

 

At that time the maximum number of foreigners who could be approved for lifetime PR in any one year was 50 per countrry.

 

The year I got it the total number of approvals for applicants from my country was 5.

 

Do you still have to do the yearly extensions and 90 day reporting?

[Lacessit]

51 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

It's proposed legislation.  Is that a fact, or not?  

 

How many links do you need to see showing you this?  Where's the "opinion" in it.  There were proposed by the Liberal government and they are in Labor's "in tray."  Link provided for this also.  

 

Can you post a link that shows I have made the proposed changes up, or it's all fake news? 

 

I've posted link after link after link.  Where's the "opinion."  The proposed changes are there for you to see. 

 

Sure, we can discuss law interpretation, tax minimization strategy etc, but to say the proposed changes is just  my "opinion" is BS.  It's all over the internet from credible sources, even the government's.

 

Proposed changes - fact.  Links provided.

 

Pensions are income - fact.  Links provided.

 

Pensions are taxable - fact.  Links provided. 

 

No tax free threshold for non residents - fact.  Links provided.

 

Show me where the above is just my "opinion." 

Proposed legislation does not become a fact until it is passed.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, LosLobo said:

What does 470 times do?

I didn't want to exaggerate.

[scorecard]

On 6/27/2023 at 9:34 AM, Tom A Hawk said:

My reasoning for not wanting to log in is because once I log in, there may be that message from them sitting there and it will start the 28 days clock on it, just like the guy in the video.  It's like they have served it on me electronically. 

 

You suggest I don't lie, but aren't people saying they have the intention to return to Australia but they actually don't?  Just look at the guy in the video again.  He said on the video, "Have you permanently shifted overseas? The answer is no" and then at the end of the video he shows his big new house.  I know having a house in Thailand doesn't mean someone has moved there permanently but it looks like he has.

 

Did you tell them you were going to live in Australia but were really gonna live in Thailand?

 

Say I answer "no" as well but a year later I still haven't gone back.  How long before the next declaration is sent to me and how can I keep saying "no" before they call BS on my answers because they know I haven't been back?  I will go back for a few weeks to see my kids but I am living in Thailand now. 

 

What is the point of these questions if everyone can keep saying they haven't permanently left Australia when they actually have and they know you haven't returned for a long time? 

 

QUOTE:

 

My reasoning for not wanting to log in is because once I log in, there may be that message from them sitting there and it will start the 28 days clock on it, just like the guy in the video.  It's like they have served it on me electronically. 

 

I'm lost; what specific 'message' are you referring to?

 

Last time I entered Mygov / C.link was 3 or 4 mnths ago.

 

I just logged on to Mygov 1537 LOS time 13 Nov 2023. I have no outstanding Mygov / C.link correspondence.

 

I repeat I'm lost; what specific 'message' are you referring to?

Edited November 13, 2023 by scorecard

[4MyEgo]

6 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Proposed

 

Means diddly squat until it becomes legislation, so until it does, shouldn't even worry about it, just like the way I am not worrying about the Thai "proposed" changes to their overseas remittance regulations.

 

6 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Pensions are income

 

Yes they are deemed as an income.

 

6 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Pensions are taxable

 

The Age Pension forms part of your taxable income. However, if it is your only source of retirement income, you will pay no tax. If you're on the Age Pension, you also receive health benefits and reduced charges on rates, telephones, gas and electricity, car registration and public transport.

 

 

6 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

No tax free threshold for non residents

 

The difference between the tax threshold of $18,200 for residents, which is not taxable if it's the only source of income Vs the no tax threshold for non residents on the aged pension is a mere $8,450, however this can be offset with SAPTO, and non residents can apply for this $2,230 amount which would reduce the tax payable for a non resident to $6,220 or around $120 per week.

 

If a single pensioner was to receive $26,000 for the year as a non resident, take out his tax of $6,220 after the SAPTO offset, he would end up with $19,780 or 45,494 baht based on 23 baht to the $, which is still feasible to live on in Thailand for a single bloke, Vs trying to live in Oz on $26,000 per year + rental assistance, Energy Allowance etc etc, suffice to say last time I checked a 1960's one bedroom unit within a 15km range of Sydney CBD (south) would cost you about your pension, including electricity, if you could find one. 

 

At the end of the day, I personally don't know of any pensions living here that pay tax on their aged pensions, are they supposed to, sure, but who cares, will the ATO deduct it from their pensions in the future, who knows, and who cares, it's irrelevant, that said, I doubt that they would deduct it, it would be more than likely that Services Australia would, but again, what's the point of worrying about something that hasn't happened, worry about it when it does, it's not a matter of being right or wrong or trying to push your point across, seriously, know one cares, it's still a good earner for those retiring in Thailand, remembering that they are allowed to have a certain amount of money to counter any short falls, albeit it they will pay additional taxes via the Deeming Rate, totally different story, but hey 45,494 baht after tax is still ok as I support a family of 4 for around 60,000 baht a month and we live a good life on that amount.

 

I do believe others have been trying to tell you to give it a rest, but you seem fixated and hell bent on wanting it to come to fruition so that you can say, see I told you so, that said, best let it rest, in other words, WE don't care.

[scorecard]

7 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Do you still have to do the yearly extensions and 90 day reporting?

 

PR is not 'classified' as a visa, it's issued for life. It automatically cancels when the holder dies. The only other way it can cancel is if the holder gains a criminal record in Thailand or abroad.

 

Therefore there is no expiry date. Therefore there's no yearly extensions and there's no 'review' ever. 

 

The only ime a PR holder visits immigration is:

 

- When the PR book is full (full of passport stamps; every time the holder departs / enters Thailand both the holders passport and the PR book get departure and arrival stamps. there's no interview involved). This doesn't involve review of the actual PR status in any way. Renewal of the full PR book is a simple administrative exercise.

 

- When the holder plans to depart Thailand, the holder must get an exit and re-entry stamp (single journey or multiple journey). There's no interview involved, and there's no review of the actual PR status in any way. Issue of the exit and re-entry stamps is a simple administrative exercise.

 

• PR holders don't do 90 day reporting.
• If the PR holder is married there is no visit by Immigration to ensure the marriage is 'genuine'. 

[Tom A Hawk]

21 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

QUOTE:

 

My reasoning for not wanting to log in is because once I log in, there may be that message from them sitting there and it will start the 28 days clock on it, just like the guy in the video.  It's like they have served it on me electronically. 

 

I'm lost; what specific 'message' are you referring to?

 

Last time I entered Mygov / C.link was 3 or 4 mnths ago.

 

I just logged on to Mygov 1537 LOS time 13 Nov 2023. I have no outstanding Mygov / C.link correspondence.

 

I repeat I'm lost; what specific 'message' are you referring to?

The message this guy got in the video.

 

I ended up signing in and that message wasn't there.  I don't know why he got it and I didn't.  Maybe it's on its way to me.  I can answer the way he suggests, but it would not be truthful.  At some point, regardless of my answers to those questions, they are just going to say I am a non resident because I am living in Thailand.  Bit hard to get around it when they know you are not in Australia for so long. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8kIY9ADQpg

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Tom A Hawk

[Artisi]

21 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Proposed legislation does not become a fact until it is passed.

That is correct, but bear in mind, but if it does pass - the problem for all Aussies living here on a pension or other income starts and the 180 day rule will kick in. 

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, Artisi said:

That is correct, but bear in mind, but if it does pass - the problem for all Aussies living here on a pension or other income starts and the 180 day rule will kick in. 

And I found mention that the number of old age pensioners who have their 4 weekly payment automaticlly transferred abroad every 4 weeks is around 1.5 to 2.00% of all Aussie old age pensioners. 

 

How many of the OAP folks receive the full OAP amunt and how many have no other income is I guess an open question except that if they are being honest and declaring other income their pension entitlement will possibly be lower.  

 

Will the ATO want to use resources to do any follow up on these folks? Seems doubtful to me. 

 

     *******************

 

There's also Aussies who receive permanent (for life) disability compensation payments abroad every 4 weeks from the DVA, in regard to disabilities accepted as related to war service. The number of war veterans in this group is tiny. 

 

The legislation involved states that such payments are exempt from Australian personal tax.

 

Will the ATO want to investigate  these veterans in any way? Seems quite doubtful.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by scorecard

[Lacessit]

27 minutes ago, scorecard said:

And I found mention that the number of old age pensioners who have their 4 weekly payment automaticlly transferred abroad every 4 weeks is around 1.5 to 2.00% of all Aussie old age pensioners. 

 

How many of the OAP folks receive the full OAP amunt and how many have no other income is I guess an open question except that if they are being honest and declaring other income their pension entitlement will possibly be lower.  

 

Will the ATO want to use resources to do any follow up on these folks? Seems doubtful to me. 

 

     *******************

 

There's also Aussies who receive permanent (for life) disability compensation payments abroad every 4 weeks from the DVA, in regard to disabilities accepted as related to war service. The number of war veterans in this group is tiny. 

 

The legislation involved states that such payments are exempt from Australian personal tax.

 

Will the ATO want to investigate  these veterans in any way? Seems quite doubtful.

 

 

How many age pensioners living outside Australia have their pension transferred into an Australian account, then send accumulated lump sums overseas when it suits them?

it's what I  have always done. it may or may not add to residency status, but it gives the ATO and Centrelink a bit more detail to unravel.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

On 11/13/2023 at 2:12 PM, KhunHeineken said:

No deflecting at all.  By all means, be as direct as you like. 

 

Here are the resident tax rates and non resident tax rates from the ATO website.

 

Can you show me where is the tax free threshold for a non resident for tax purposes?  See the part $0 to $120,000 is 32.5% tax.  That's on the whole $28,514 once deemed to be a non resident for tax purposes. 

 

We all know there's a tax free threshold if you are a resident for tax purposes, but that's not relevant to most Aussie expats living in Thailand who will be deemed to be a non residents for tax purposes when the new laws are legislated.    

 

Foreign residents tax rates 2023–24

Foreign resident tax rates 2023–24

Taxable income	Tax on this income
0 – $120,000	32.5c for each $1
$120,001 – $180,000	$39,000 plus 37c for each $1 over $120,000
$180,001 and over	$61,200 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000

 

Australian residents tax rates 2023–24

Resident tax rates 2023–24

Taxable income	Tax on this income
0 – $18,200	Nil
$18,201 – $45,000	19c for each $1 over $18,200
$45,001 – $120,000	$5,092 plus 32.5c for each $1 over $45,000
$120,001 – $180,000	$29,467 plus 37c for each $1 over $120,000
$180,001 and over	$51,667 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000

All good - those numbers are correct - there is no tax free threshold for non-resident tax payers in Australia.

But you missed my point - I am obviously not explaining it well enough - trying again.

 

The tax free threshold for a tax resident in Australia is $18,200.

Single Pensioners in Australia get $28,514 which is $10,314 OVER the tax free threshold.

But Pensioners in Australia do not pay any taxes on their Age Pensions - zero.

Because the Age Pension is a tax free payment in Australia - that is in the Act.

It does not matter if you are a tax resident or a tax non-resdient - it is a tax free payment.

 

For an age pension recipient in Thailand to be taxed (resident or non-resident) they would have to change a lots of the Regulations and Rules.

The Social Security Act would have to be amended - which requires approval through Parliament.

They would be challenged in AAT and the Courts in Australia.

And IMO they would be in breach of the UN International Convention.

[LosLobo]

26 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

All good - those numbers are correct - there is no tax free threshold for non-resident tax payers in Australia.

But you missed my point - I am obviously not explaining it well enough - trying again.

 

The tax free threshold for a tax resident in Australia is $18,200.

Single Pensioners in Australia get $28,514 which is $10,314 OVER the tax free threshold.

But Pensioners in Australia do not pay any taxes on their Age Pensions - zero.

Because the Age Pension is a tax free payment in Australia - that is in the Act.

It does not matter if you are a tax resident or a tax non-resdient - it is a tax free payment.

 

For an age pension recipient in Thailand to be taxed (resident or non-resident) they would have to change a lots of the Regulations and Rules.

The Social Security Act would have to be amended - which requires approval through Parliament.

They would be challenged in AAT and the Courts in Australia.

And IMO they would be in breach of the UN International Convention.

Tax-free threshold with SAPTO is $28,974, which is $460 UNDER.

Perhaps you could explain 'it well enough' and point to 'the Act'?

 

 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

28 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

Tax-free threshold with SAPTO is $28,974, which is $460 UNDER.

Perhaps you could explain 'it well enough' and point to 'the Act'?

Mate - stay out of it please - you are embassing yourself.

The SAPTO is a tax offset of up to $2,230 for singles. 

And go do your own research - type in Social Security Act.

Actualloy that requires high level reading skills - try this mate - Using the Social Security Guide | Social Security Guide (dss.gov.au)

 

[LosLobo]

1 hour ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Mate - stay out of it please - you are embassing yourself.

The SAPTO is a tax offset of up to $2,230 for singles. 

And go do your own research - type in Social Security Act.

Actualloy that requires high level reading skills - try this mate - Using the Social Security Guide | Social Security Guide (dss.gov.au)

 

I admit my error, I am that kind of guy, I was confused by this statement:

 

'The SAPTO for each member of a couple means they can each earn $28,974, or $57,948 together, tax-free'.

 

SAPTO and LITO, or do you really need an SMSF? (firstlinks.com.au)

 

I must also admit that perhaps I have not honed my literacy skills as sharply as you have, this is evident by the above and also my struggle of comprehension of words such as 'embassing' and 'actualloy'.

 

I suggest that your previous statement 'that is in the Act', remains only your opinion and the onus is on you to prove otherwise, and it is not for me to find it, mate!

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by LosLobo

[scorecard]

6 hours ago, scorecard said:

And I found mention that the number of old age pensioners who have their 4 weekly payment automaticlly transferred abroad every 4 weeks is around 1.5 to 2.00% of all Aussie old age pensioners. 

 

How many of the OAP folks receive the full OAP amunt and how many have no other income is I guess an open question except that if they are being honest and declaring other income their pension entitlement will possibly be lower.  

 

Will the ATO want to use resources to do any follow up on these folks? Seems doubtful to me. 

 

     *******************

 

There's also Aussies who receive permanent (for life) disability compensation payments abroad every 4 weeks from the DVA, in regard to disabilities accepted as related to war service. The number of war veterans in this group is tiny. 

 

The legislation involved states that such payments are exempt from Australian personal tax.

 

Will the ATO want to investigate  these veterans in any way? Seems quite doubtful.

 

 

 

I've since spoken to  C'link on the Older Aussies contact number (free from Thailand), I asked two questions:

 

1. "how many Aussie old age penioners who receive the full entitlement receive their payment on the 4 weekly cycle / payment transferred abroad?" I also asked

2. "is this type of data confidential?"

 

Her answers:

 

1. After checking she said "less than 1% of full OAP recipients receive their payments into their bank abroad on the 4 weekly cycle".

 

2. "This data is not confidential. C'link's policy is to be as transparent as possible". 

[Lacessit]

On 11/13/2023 at 9:56 PM, 4MyEgo said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do believe others have been trying to tell you to give it a rest, but you seem fixated and hell bent on wanting it to come to fruition so that you can say, see I told you so, that said, best let it rest, in other words, WE don't care.

He won't give it a rest, I sometimes think this is his only shot at self-validation.

Posting the same stuff 100 or 470 times is obsessive.

Correct, I don't care either.

 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

On 11/14/2023 at 7:13 PM, LosLobo said:

I admit my error, I am that kind of guy, I was confused by this statement:

'The SAPTO for each member of a couple means they can each earn $28,974, or $57,948 together, tax-free'.

SAPTO and LITO, or do you really need an SMSF? (firstlinks.com.au)

I must also admit that perhaps I have not honed my literacy skills as sharply as you have, this is evident by the above and also my struggle of comprehension of words such as 'embassing' and 'actualloy'.

I suggest that your previous statement 'that is in the Act', remains only your opinion and the onus is on you to prove otherwise, and it is not for me to find it, mate!

All good - we all sumtimes get it rong and missspel words and use bad grummer two.

 

[Lacessit]

18 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

All good - we all sumtimes get it rong and missspel words and use bad grummer two.

 

Boasting about a lack of education seems to be the new normal.

[Nemises]

Returning to Australia for 2 years to qualify for the aged pension? Add another 6 months before seeing any payments:

 

 

Tens of thousands of older Aussies are waiting months to have their Age Pension applications approved, due to a massive backlog at Centrelink, an anonymous source at Services Australia has said.

The delay means many people are having to eat into retirement savings to make ends meet and some are even having to delay important medical appointments while they wait for their health care card application to be processed.

A source at Services Australia, who asked not to be named, told The West Australian the backlog for new Age Pension claims stood at more than 30,000 in late November, with some applications dating back to early June.

 

https://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/centrelink/age-pension/centrelink-backlog-causing-massive-age-pension-delays/

 

 

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Nemises said:

Returning to Australia for 2 years to qualify for the aged pension? Add another 6 months before seeing any payments:

 

 

Tens of thousands of older Aussies are waiting months to have their Age Pension applications approved, due to a massive backlog at Centrelink, an anonymous source at Services Australia has said.

The delay means many people are having to eat into retirement savings to make ends meet and some are even having to delay important medical appointments while they wait for their health care card application to be processed.

A source at Services Australia, who asked not to be named, told The West Australian the backlog for new Age Pension claims stood at more than 30,000 in late November, with some applications dating back to early June.

 

https://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/centrelink/age-pension/centrelink-backlog-causing-massive-age-pension-delays/

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Nemises said:

Returning to Australia for 2 years to qualify for the aged pension? Add another 6 months before seeing any payments:

 

 

Tens of thousands of older Aussies are waiting months to have their Age Pension applications approved, due to a massive backlog at Centrelink, an anonymous source at Services Australia has said.

The delay means many people are having to eat into retirement savings to make ends meet and some are even having to delay important medical appointments while they wait for their health care card application to be processed.

A source at Services Australia, who asked not to be named, told The West Australian the backlog for new Age Pension claims stood at more than 30,000 in late November, with some applications dating back to early June.

 

https://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/centrelink/age-pension/centrelink-backlog-causing-massive-age-pension-delays/

 

 

 

From one extreme to another:

 

- From the news report currently 6 months + wait for initial approval.

 

- 4.5 years back I returned and applied, all approved within 18 days and received pleasant phone call (at 18 days) from polite young male officer, all explained very clearly and as he indicated a letter in my mail box the next day (same details as phone call) with a direct line no (132 300) to call if I had any questions. Day after phone call, late morning, the back payment was in my Aussie bank account. 

 

As said one extreme to another. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 11/13/2023 at 2:56 PM, 4MyEgo said:

Means diddly squat until it becomes legislation, so until it does, shouldn't even worry about it, just like the way I am not worrying about the Thai "proposed" changes to their overseas remittance regulations.

Clearly, it means more than "diddly squat" when accounting firms, financial planners, investment houses etc are warning their clients.  

 

It's not about "worrying" but about preparing.  there is a difference. 

 

On 11/13/2023 at 2:56 PM, 4MyEgo said:

 if it is your only source of retirement income, you will pay no tax. If you're on the Age Pension, you also receive health benefits and reduced charges on rates, telephones, gas and electricity, car registration and public transport.

For a non resident for taxation purposes, I don't think so. 

 

On 11/13/2023 at 2:56 PM, 4MyEgo said:

The difference between the tax threshold of $18,200 for residents, which is not taxable if it's the only source of income Vs the no tax threshold for non residents on the aged pension is a mere $8,450, however this can be offset with SAPTO, and non residents can apply for this $2,230 amount which would reduce the tax payable for a non resident to $6,220 or around $120 per week.

 

If a single pensioner was to receive $26,000 for the year as a non resident, take out his tax of $6,220 after the SAPTO offset, he would end up with $19,780 or 45,494 baht based on 23 baht to the $, which is still feasible to live on in Thailand for a single bloke, Vs trying to live in Oz on $26,000 per year + rental assistance, Energy Allowance etc etc, suffice to say last time I checked a 1960's one bedroom unit within a 15km range of Sydney CBD (south) would cost you about your pension, including electricity, if you could find one. 

 

At the end of the day, I personally don't know of any pensions living here that pay tax on their aged pensions, are they supposed to, sure, but who cares, will the ATO deduct it from their pensions in the future, who knows, and who cares, it's irrelevant, that said, I doubt that they would deduct it, it would be more than likely that Services Australia would, but again, what's the point of worrying about something that hasn't happened, worry about it when it does, it's not a matter of being right or wrong or trying to push your point across, seriously, know one cares, it's still a good earner for those retiring in Thailand, remembering that they are allowed to have a certain amount of money to counter any short falls, albeit it they will pay additional taxes via the Deeming Rate, totally different story, but hey 45,494 baht after tax is still ok as I support a family of 4 for around 60,000 baht a month and we live a good life on that amount.

So, by your calculations, it's possible pensioners will lose $120 a week, yet, some people believe the proposed changes "are only for guys like Paul Hogan."    Now, by your own calculations, it appears it's for everyone. 

 

Yes, we all should have been paying non resident tax, even pensioners.  It's not a new tax, just a new way to enforce that it's paid. 

 

For someone who is not "worrying" about it until it comes in, why even bother doing the math? 

[KhunHeineken]

On 11/13/2023 at 8:23 AM, Lacessit said:

Proposed legislation does not become a fact until it is passed.

The proposed legislation is a fact. That's all we have ever discussed on this forum.  I have never stated that they have been passed into law.  

 

You can sit back and do nothing until they are passed, or thrown in the bin, or, plan for the possibility they do get passed and the consequences thereof, but to say the proposed changes are not a fact is laughable.    

[KhunHeineken]

On 11/14/2023 at 6:08 AM, Artisi said:

That is correct, but bear in mind, but if it does pass - the problem for all Aussies living here on a pension or other income starts and the 180 day rule will kick in. 

As per the calculations of another member, it's a loss of $240 a fortnight. 

 

This may put some pensioners in some financial hardship, causing a decline in lifestyle, or, a return home to qualify for tax resident status every year. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 11/14/2023 at 9:11 AM, scorecard said:

There's also Aussies who receive permanent (for life) disability compensation payments abroad every 4 weeks from the DVA, in regard to disabilities accepted as related to war service. The number of war veterans in this group is tiny. 

 

The legislation involved states that such payments are exempt from Australian personal tax.

 

Will the ATO want to investigate  these veterans in any way? Seems quite doubtful.

You are correct, the service pension is tax free, but, many recipients of a service pension also worked.  Their total income, which includes their service pension, goes into the mix for the ATO and treated as combined income.  

 

We have already establish a pension, of any sort, is deemed to be an income.  A veteran living outside of Australia is still a non resident for tax purposes, thus, their services pension will be classified as any other pension and taxed at non resident rates.  

 

It's all about tax residency, not what type of pension it is.   

[KhunHeineken]

On 11/14/2023 at 9:48 AM, Lacessit said:

How many age pensioners living outside Australia have their pension transferred into an Australian account, then send accumulated lump sums overseas when it suits them?

it's what I  have always done. it may or may not add to residency status, but it gives the ATO and Centrelink a bit more detail to unravel.

How much detail does it give the immigration department to unravel - ZERO.

 

They will be the ones to inform Centerlink / ATO you have been outside of Australia for 45 / 183 days.  All done by a computer.  

[KhunHeineken]

On 11/14/2023 at 10:04 AM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

But Pensioners in Australia do not pay any taxes on their Age Pensions - zero.

Because the Age Pension is a tax free payment in Australia - that is in the Act.

It does not matter if you are a tax resident or a tax non-resdient - it is a tax free payment.

 

We are not living in Australia.  We are living in Thailand.  The game changes. 

 

Another member has asked you for a link to "the Act" and so will I.

 

Please post the act saying that a pension, which is deemed an income, is exempt from non resident tax for those choosing to live abroad in retirement.  

 

On 11/14/2023 at 10:04 AM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

For an age pension recipient in Thailand to be taxed (resident or non-resident) they would have to change a lots of the Regulations and Rules.

No, taxation laws for non residents have been the same for 90 years. That 90 year old legislation has a lot of holes in it, and that's why we have all got away without paying. 

 

The proposed changes are not a new tax. The proposed changes just close the holes that many, including myself, have slipped through for years. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 11/14/2023 at 10:40 AM, LosLobo said:

Perhaps you could explain 'it well enough' and point to 'the Act'?

Eagerly awaiting "the Act" link.