Australian Aged Pension

[Artisi]

7 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

We know this, but what about re-establishing residency before applying?

 

As I asked in another post, is it really that easy to fly back into Australia before your birthday, after 20 years away, apply, receive, and fly out again with portability.  If so, I would be somewhat surprised, but hey, Australia has an easy welfare system.  

No, it's not possible to fly in after years away, get a pension and fly out again - end of story. 

Fly in after years away and get a pension if eligible, yes - but basically  grounded for 2 years before portability is granted - again, end of story. 

[Lacessit]

 

 

You may notice when KH posts a comment on one of my posts, he does not get any response from me.

 

What's the best way to deal with a troll? Don't give them any oxygen whatsoever.

[scorecard]

16 hours ago, Artisi said:

That is correct, if you haven't been resident for 2 years prior to applying for OAP then you need to spend 2 years as a resident for portability, however I think there is provision to exit for occasional short periods such as holidays - but this time away might be tacked onto the 2 year period ---  worth checking.

 A few points:

 

Yes, after your OAP is approved you can do short several trips out and return to Australia (short trips is not well defined, as an example say 3 weeks) during the next 2 years:

• - If you do a 'short trip' out your OAP payments are suspended (Centrelink has a 24/7 live link to immigration records (passport records) and if you depart and return Centrelink knows instantly and instantly stops / reinstates any payments.
• - The 2 years is calculated from the date you arrived back in Oz (after a long absence), It's NOT calculated from the date your OAP application was lodged or approved.
• - Short periods out of Oz do NOT impact the accumulation of the 2 years, even if you do several short trips out; the accumulation continues unaffected by any short trips out. In Other words the accumulation of the 2 years continues uninterrupted by any short trips out.

I returned after a long absence, I applied for the OAP and it was approved.

I called the older Australian line several times (132300) and asked about the bullet points.

 

During each call I asked a 'new' question and looked for confirmation of the previous answers to other points.

 

All confirmed.

 

In reality these bullet points are a direct result of my calls to 132300. 

 

Then COVID- 19 happened and I stayed put in Oz. 

 

All of the above has been previously shared on this site by many Australians. 

[ozfarang]

Centrelink International is the section to call regards all questions on portability of the OAP.

 

I have called 131673 and they answered all my questions on portability of my OAP. 

 

@scorecard has correctly  answered most of the questions regarding portability in his post above

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/16/2024 at 12:54 AM, Artisi said:

No, it's not possible to fly in after years away, get a pension and fly out again - end of story. 

Fly in after years away and get a pension if eligible, yes - but basically  grounded for 2 years before portability is granted - again, end of story. 

So, a member has said you just need to be in Australia at the time of becoming eligible, and you say that's not the case, which I suspected. 

 

If one has been away for 20 years, how long before their eligible date for application should they return to Australia?

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/15/2024 at 11:46 PM, Olmate said:

Surely your not suggesting we need a yearly pass to travel the roadways.

Wow.  How out of touch are you?  You already do, they are called "E-Tags" and you stick them on your windscreen. 

 

Dated just yesterday.

 

https://www.drive.com.au/news/sydney-drivers-paying-upwards-of-10000-a-year-on-tolls/

 

"According to figures released by the state’s E-Toll provider, 901 motorists paid between $10,000 and $20,000 in the last financial year to end of June, with around a dozen spending upwards of $30,000.

And that doesn’t even include businesses who use more than three tags or private account holders.

 

 

"E-Toll users are spending $2.5 billion a year to drive on NSW toll roads – all of which are in the Sydney area – with the big-spending motorists mostly from the city's west.
 

The above is just from NSW, not nation wide. 

 

Nice earner.

 

On 9/15/2024 at 11:46 PM, Olmate said:

How is it that KH, the not to be eligible for OAP Oz tax avoider, (by his own admission), supposedly live out of the country,are judging the welfare system? 

I worked hard all my life, so did my ex-wife, and we made some good investments.  Our divorce was amicable.  It allowed me to retire earlier than most.  I have assets over the threshold to claim an aged pension. 

 

To clarify, the tax I am avoiding is the same tax pensioners are avoiding, and that is, non resident tax.  I am still paying tax in Australia. 

 

Remember, the pension is deemed an income, the pension is taxable, expats living in Thailand are obviously non residents of Australia for tax purposes, and the tax bracket for a non resident is 30% from $0.  

 

On 9/15/2024 at 11:46 PM, Olmate said:

Next Q. How to pronounce hypocritical troll ! 

Oh, the irony.

 

However, the proposed changes from "domiciled" to a time based and physical presence residency model will see all Aussie expats deriving an income, which is also a pension, up for non resident tax.  

 

Talk about shoot yourself in the foot.     

 

[Pattaya57]

On 9/5/2024 at 12:03 AM, KhunHeineken said:

A family member is living in my property, and we have an "agreement."  They also holiday in Thailand, usually twice a year.  Upon catching up, cash is exchanged for rent and utility bills.  None of it's right down to the dollar.  It works for them, and works for me.  We both benefit financially.  It's amicable.

 

The property is just a bolthole for me.  We are both happy with the deal.  They get reasonably cheap rent, I get a "domicile" in Australia and some cash, and I haven't burnt all my bridges, and don't pay non resident tax rates. 

 

Where's the BS in this?  I have quite a few Aussie friends doing the same.  

 

38 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

To clarify, the tax I am avoiding is the same tax pensioners are avoiding, and that is, non resident tax.  I am still paying tax in Australia. 

 

How do you state the above when you admitted you rent your property in Australia for cash that you don't declare to the tax office? That's tax fraud, which is up to you, but don't say you only avoid tax like everyone else...

 

Edited yesterday at 07:25 AM by Pattaya57

[KhunHeineken]

25 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

 

 

How do you state the above when you admitted you rent your property in Australia for cash that you don't declare to the tax office? That's tax fraud!

 

Duplicate post.

Edited yesterday at 07:31 AM by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

25 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

 

 

How do you state the above when you admitted you rent your property in Australia for cash that you don't declare to the tax office? That's tax fraud!

 

You use the word "property." 

 

I have multiple properties, and other investments.  The properties are all in the hands of real estate property managers and on the books,  I pay tax on the rental income.   

 

The "property" in which a family member is residing has everything in my name.  It's my "domicile."  I am just on a long holiday.  I know many Aussies still maintaining a "domicile" in Australia to avoid paying non resident tax.  Some vacant, some with a family member or friend.  It's been going on for decades.    

 

Why do you think the Australian government wants to like Thailand, 183 inside = resident.  183  outside = non resident.  It gets people like me, but also gets pensioners.  

 

It's a tax we should have all been paying, but the government can't disprove "intention."  or otherwise, to return to Australia.  With the 183 days, they don't have to.  That's why I posted about it, so long ago. 

Edited yesterday at 07:30 AM by KhunHeineken

[Artisi]

5 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

So, a member has said you just need to be in Australia at the time of becoming eligible, and you say that's not the case, which I suspected. 

 

If one has been away for 20 years, how long before their eligible date for application should they return to Australia?

No, I said you can't fly in, get a pension and fly out if your have been absent for a longish period.

If of pension age, you can fly in and apply for a pension but have to stay 2 years for portability. 

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, Artisi said:

No, I said you can't fly in, get a pension and fly out if your have been absent for a longish period.

If of pension age, you can fly in and apply for a pension but have to stay 2 years for portability. 

You haven't answered the question. 

 

Example:  Say one's pension age is 67.  They have been outside of Australia since their mid to late 40's, for whatever reason. 

 

How long before the day they turn 67 should they return to Australia to guarantee portability on the day they apply, and receive, the aged pension?   

[Will27]

52 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

You haven't answered the question. 

 

Example:  Say one's pension age is 67.  They have been outside of Australia since their mid to late 40's, for whatever reason. 

 

How long before the day they turn 67 should they return to Australia to guarantee portability on the day they apply, and receive, the aged pension?   

He has answered the question.

Twice actually.

 

In the example you provided, he's eligible for the pension at 67.

He can return to Australia on the day (or earlier) and apply.

 

Once granted, he won't be eligible for portability for 2 years.

 

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, Artisi said:

No, I said you can't fly in, get a pension and fly out if your have been absent for a longish period.

If of pension age, you can fly in and apply for a pension but have to stay 2 years for portability. 

 

You always, deliberately I suspect, make things complicated.

 

You wrote:  

 

"Say one's pension age is 67.  They have been outside of Australia since their mid to late 40's, for whatever reason. 

 

How long before the day they turn 67 should they return to Australia to guarantee portability on the day they apply, and receive, the aged pension? " 

 

Nobody can 'pick a date' to guarantee portability on the day they apply or on any date. It doesn't work like that. Or put that another way, there is no way whatever that a person can receive portability on the date they apply for the OAP.

 

Portability depends on a couple of factors, one being that the person is already receiving the OAP.

 

The  2 years period starts on the day the person arrived back in Australia, it DOESN'T start on the day the person applies for and/or is approved for the OAP.

 

A person can apply for the OAP on the day they become eligible (by age). Or they can apply on any date after that, even several years later. If you apply several years after the eligibility date, even say 20 years later no questions are asked, doesn't change anything about the '2 years' to gain portability.

 

But keep in mind there's several other items involved to get approval for the OAP.  

 

Also keep in mind the person must physically be in Australia on the day they lodge their application for the OAP and the person must have a Centrelink CRN (Centrelink Reference number - which is simple and  issued at any Centrelink office in a few minutes. You do need proof of identity).  

 

As mentioned above the person must be in Oz on the date of lodging the OAP application and this is NOT flexible (sickness is not accepted, living in a wheelchair is not accepted) and it cannot be done by e.mail of by phone before the person arrives back in OZ. It cannot be done by the person calling a Centrelink office and completing the CRN application on the phone even it the call is a domestic phone call. 

 

Now let's see how you can twist / challenge / disagree with these FACTS.

 

You're still on my IGNORE list.

Edited yesterday at 03:11 PM by scorecard

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, Will27 said:

He has answered the question.

Twice actually.

 

In the example you provided, he's eligible for the pension at 67.

He can return to Australia on the day (or earlier) and apply.

 

Once granted, he won't be eligible for portability for 2 years.

 

I'll make it simple for you.

 

Say one goes back to Australia 6 months before their birthday and apply on the day, do they have to stay 18 months after they are granted the pension, or still stall 2 years afterward for portability? 

 

I can give many other scenarios buy months, but do YOU see the point I am trying to make? 

 

Sure, return just over 2 years before your birthday and application date, apply, granted, and fly out with portability.  I get that, but that's not the question I am asking, is it? 

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

How long before the day they turn 67 should they return to Australia to guarantee portability on the day they apply, and receive, the aged pension? " 

Great question.  I wished I asked it myself. 

 

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Nobody can 'pick a date' to guarantee portability on the day they apply or on any date. It doesn't work like that.

But Will27 posted the question has been answered, twice. 

 

What is one to believe?  

 

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Portability depends on a couple of factors, one being that the person is already receiving the OAP.

That's a given, of course.  There can be no portability without a pension, right? 

 

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

The  2 years period starts on the day the person arrived back in Australia, it DOESN'T start on the day the person applies for and/or is approved for the OAP.

Before, or after, their birthday, thus, their application date? 

 

You do not mention an arrival date back to Australia BEFORE their birthday and application date. 

 

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

A person can apply for the OAP on the day they become eligible (by age). Or they can apply on any date after that, even several years later. If you apply several years after the eligibility date, even say 20 years later no questions are asked, doesn't change anything about the '2 years' to gain portability.

We know this.

 

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

lso keep in mind the person must physically be in Australia on the day they lodge their application for the OAP and the person must have a Centrelink CRN (Centrelink Reference number - which is simple and  issued at any Centrelink office in a few minutes. You do need proof of identity).  

We know this also.

 

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Now let's see how you can twist / challenge / disagree with these FACTS.

I don't want to twist / challenge / disagree  with anything. 

 

I want to know if someone has been outside of Australia for say 20 years, how many years / months do they have to return to Australia BEFORE their qualifying birthday for the pension, so they can fly straight out with portability.  

 

I really can't make the question more simple. 

 

Do you know the answer?  Yes, or no? 

 

It's important because we have a member suggesting you just have to be inside Australia at the time of applying, which I found surprising. 

 

Edited yesterday at 04:25 PM by KhunHeineken

[Peterw42]

10 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

You haven't answered the question. 

 

Example:  Say one's pension age is 67.  They have been outside of Australia since their mid to late 40's, for whatever reason. 

 

How long before the day they turn 67 should they return to Australia to guarantee portability on the day they apply, and receive, the aged pension?   

They would need to return to Australia at age 65, 2 years prior. 

If they have been out of Australia since their 40s, then the probably haven't put in enough years to get a full pension, IIRC its 35 years.

[rhodie]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

They would need to return to Australia at age 65, 2 years prior. 

They can return anytime. If they return at age 67 or later, they will receive the full pension as soon as their application is finalised. They will get the full pension, if eligible, while in Australia. If they leave after 2 years on a portable pension, the 35 year rule kicks in after being out of the country for 6 months, but, if they have 35 years of working life in Australia, they continue to receive the full pension.

[Olmate]

When going back for short stays, 2 or 3months  for eg., do the extra benefits eg rent.assist, other allownces kick in, and how long willthey continue on your return to Thailand.  A mate will now be making 3 or 4 return trips yearly.

[RJRS1301]

13 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

You haven't answered the question. 

 

Example:  Say one's pension age is 67.  They have been outside of Australia since their mid to late 40's, for whatever reason. 

 

How long before the day they turn 67 should they return to Australia to guarantee portability on the day they apply, and receive, the aged pension?   

You understand that Services Australia, will check a pension application against DFAT/Immigration records to see how long one has been out the country before applying, whether or not they claim to have been in "domicile", every entry and exit is listed and the Services Australia computer auto cross links to the DFAT/Immigration computer for matching 

[RJRS1301]

46 minutes ago, Olmate said:

When going back for short stays, 2 or 3months  for eg., do the extra benefits eg rent.assist, other allownces kick in, and how long willthey continue on your return to Thailand.  A mate will now be making 3 or 4 return trips yearly.

Last I heard any rental assistance for renters/pharmaceutical benefits cease after six week,

The mate needs to confirm he has portability

You would need to notify Centrelink/Services Australia of "change of circumstances" on return to have the benefits reassessed.

 

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, rhodie said:

They can return anytime. If they return at age 67 or later, they will receive the full pension as soon as their application is finalised. They will get the full pension, if eligible, while in Australia. If they leave after 2 years on a portable pension, the 35 year rule kicks in after being out of the country for 6 months, but, if they have 35 years of working life in Australia, they continue to receive the full pension.

The 35 year rule has nothing to do with pension being portable or being cut off if you leave. 35 years is the minimum time you are required to be working (available for work), to even qualify for a pension.

As above, if someone leaves Australia aged 40 and doesn't return until 67, then they haven't put in the required years to even get a pension, let alone making it portable. Even if they started working at 15, that 25 years working.

[scorecard]

28 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

The 35 year rule has nothing to do with pension being portable or being cut off if you leave. 35 years is the minimum time you are required to be working (available for work), to even qualify for a pension.

As above, if someone leaves Australia aged 40 and doesn't return until 67, then they haven't put in the required years to even get a pension, let alone making it portable. Even if they started working at 15, that 25 years working.

 

QUOTE from above:
 

"The 35 year rule has nothing to do with pension being portable or being cut off if you leave. 35 years is the minimum time you are required to be working (available for work), to even qualify for a pension."

 

Qualify for a pension are the key words. 

 

The OAP application form has questions which are specific to this point. There's no flexibility.

Edited 19 hours ago by scorecard

[LosLobo]

On 9/15/2024 at 10:08 PM, Lacessit said:

If you had returned to Australia before you became eligible for the pension ( 65? 67? ) IMO you may then have had immediate portability.

 

No-one in Australia becomes eligible at 70. They become eligible at 67 . They also need to have a residential address.

 

It would appear people who have to stay in Australia for two years to get portability (a) are not in Australia when they turn 67 (b) have no residential address in Australia.

 

On that basis, it's possible some have not planned very well.

In my case, I was not eligible at 67 because I did not meet the DSS criteria for a returning resident, as I lacked the intention to stay in Australia indefinitely or for two years.
 

A pension claim can be made by a former resident who has resumed living in Australia if there is clear evidence of an intention to stay permanently. According to the Social Security Act subsection 7(2), someone planning to return for a specific period, like two years, would not meet the definition of an 'Australian resident.'
 

When I returned at age 70 with the intention to live permanently, I became eligible for the pension. After two years, I gained portability, allowing me to take the pension abroad. This two-year rule prevents individuals from returning solely to claim the pension and then leaving.

 

In summary, while the standard eligibility age is 67, the intention to reside permanently is a key factor that can affect the timing of eligibility.

7.1.4 Requirements for former residents of Australia receiving a portable pension | Social Security Guide (dss.gov.au)

Edited 19 hours ago by LosLobo

[Olmate]

1 hour ago, RJRS1301 said:

Last I heard any rental assistance for renters/pharmaceutical benefits cease after six week,

The mate needs to confirm he has portability

You would need to notify Centrelink/Services Australia of "change of circumstances" on return to have the benefits reassessed.

 

Thanks, 6 weeks is what  I thought too, he is a 'lifer'work-wise, same as I, so no  worry  there. Not sure on the "need to notify", I thought it was automatic re  come.n.go? 

[LosLobo]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

The 35 year rule has nothing to do with pension being portable or being cut off if you leave. 35 years is the minimum time you are required to be working (available for work), to even qualify for a pension.

As above, if someone leaves Australia aged 40 and doesn't return until 67, then they haven't put in the required years to even get a pension, let alone making it portable. Even if they started working at 15, that 25 years working.

To qualify for Age Pension you must have been an Australian resident for a minimum of 10 years in total. Additionally, for at least 5 of these years, there should be no break in your residence.
 

The 35-year rule for the Australian Age Pension refers to the Australian Working Life Residence (AWLR) requirement. To receive the full pension rate while living overseas, you must have been an Australian resident for at least 35 years between the ages of 16 and pension age. However, it's important to clarify that this does not require you to have been working during those 35 years; it only requires that you were physically present in Australia as a resident during that time.
 

If you have fewer than 35 years of AWLR, your pension rate is proportional to the time you spent as an Australian resident during your working life. For example, if you were a resident for 20 years, you would receive about 20/35ths of the full pension rate if living overseas.

Residence rules for Age Pension - Age Pension - Services Australia

 

Edited 18 hours ago by LosLobo

[Artisi]

3 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

The 35 year rule has nothing to do with pension being portable or being cut off if you leave. 35 years is the minimum time you are required to be working (available for work), to even qualify for a pension.

As above, if someone leaves Australia aged 40 and doesn't return until 67, then they haven't put in the required years to even get a pension, let alone making it portable. Even if they started working at 15, that 25 years working.

Not correct, they would recieve 25/35 of the pension. 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, LosLobo said:

In my case, I was not eligible at 67 because I did not meet the DSS criteria for a returning resident, as I lacked the intention to stay in Australia indefinitely or for two years.
 

A pension claim can be made by a former resident who has resumed living in Australia if there is clear evidence of an intention to stay permanently. According to the Social Security Act subsection 7(2), someone planning to return for a specific period, like two years, would not meet the definition of an 'Australian resident.'
 

When I returned at age 70 with the intention to live permanently, I became eligible for the pension. After two years, I gained portability, allowing me to take the pension abroad. This two-year rule prevents individuals from returning solely to claim the pension and then leaving.

 

In summary, while the standard eligibility age is 67, the intention to reside permanently is a key factor that can affect the timing of eligibility.

7.1.4 Requirements for former residents of Australia receiving a portable pension | Social Security Guide (dss.gov.au)

After you submit your OAP application you get a standard e.mail from Centrelink asking if you have any plans to go abroad in the near future.

 

My answer was 'No, and my adult son abroad* is making plans for himself, his wife and 3 kids to visit me in Oz probably every 1 or 2 years'.

 

Centrelink didn't respond to the above. I guess I gave an answer which kept them happy. (*  I didn't mention which country abroad.) 

 

[LosLobo]

21 minutes ago, scorecard said:

After you submit your OAP application you get a standard e.mail from Centrelink asking if you have any plans to go abroad in the near future.

 

My answer was 'No, and my adult son abroad* is making plans for himself, his wife and 3 kids to visit me in Oz probably every 1 or 2 years'.

 

Centrelink didn't respond to the above. I guess I gave an answer which kept them happy. (*  I didn't mention which country abroad.) 

 

I actually had a declaration to sign posted to me, which was basically a questionnaire asking me about my stay in Thailand and my anticipated new life in Oz, family ties, accommodation etc.

[LosLobo]

6 hours ago, Olmate said:

When going back for short stays, 2 or 3months  for eg., do the extra benefits eg rent.assist, other allownces kick in, and how long willthey continue on your return to Thailand.  A mate will now be making 3 or 4 return trips yearly.

Sounds like your 'mate' may be making multiple trips per year to avoid residency and taxation issues.

I suggest Rent Assistance and the non-basic Supplement payments are generally only available to Australian residents living in Australia as these benefits are tied to long-term residency.

 

Additionally, claiming these supplements while primarily living overseas could potentially raise questions about residency status, which might impact pension portability.

It’s best to check with Services Australia for tailored advice.

 

Edited 14 hours ago by LosLobo

[scorecard]

12 hours ago, LosLobo said:

I actually had a declaration to sign posted to me, which was basically a questionnaire asking me about my stay in Thailand and my anticipated new life in Oz, family ties, accommodation etc.

Re accommodation: there's several detailed questions on this subject in the actual OAP application document.

 

Two possibilities:

1. Show proof that you own a home and proof that you are receiving and pay council etc., rate. Prove that you receive electricity and water bills etc., and that you pay them. Proof of a bank account with your name and the address of the home you own. 

 

2. Show proof of at least one year rental agreement of a home or apartment etc. The rental agreement must be using a format which is approved at state level. Prove that you receive electricity and water bills etc., and that you pay them. Proof of a bank account with your name and the address of the property you are renting.