Australian Aged Pension

[4MyEgo]

6 hours ago, CygnusX1 said:

Sorry to harp on about this, but surely that can’t be correct, otherwise why would the ATO have all of the other residency tests on its website, as well as in the residency calculator?

What about a retiree who loves travel, and spends nine months of every year visiting different countries, staying no longer than a month in each? What country would he be a tax resident of, if not Australia?

Don't be sorry, and harp on as much as you like, knowledge is a powerful tool, as long as we learn, then we can use that tool.

 

I will sift through my bookmarks when I get my sheet together and post you the legislation, as much as I reading, howesle could I make sense out the ATO's madness, which plainly confuses the fark out of just about all of us, but when you interpret the legislation and read some interesting court rulings, then you can make a judgement call.

 

The above said, if you DO NOT stay in one destination, then that cannot be deemed as your "ABODE", i.e. your "USUAL" place of residence, just make sure you have all of your passport stamps with you stored in a safe place for they come a knocking ????

 

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

Not everybody fits the 'mould' you mention.

 

I don't have to do 90 day reports nor get extensions therefore no issues re 'insufficient funds'. 

 

I also have a wonderful family situation, son and his wife and kids who give me lots of love and care and respect.

 

Life is good.

 

 

A little confusing, care to elaborate and what residency status you are for the purposes of the topic ?

[Will27]

6 hours ago, CygnusX1 said:

Sorry to harp on about this, but surely that can’t be correct, otherwise why would the ATO have all of the other residency tests on its website, as well as in the residency calculator?

What about a retiree who loves travel, and spends nine months of every year visiting different countries, staying no longer than a month in each? What country would he be a tax resident of, if not Australia?

Let's face it, the chances of getting audited by the ATO are really small.

Even smaller if you're only on the pension and have small savings.

 

But it is good to be up to date on the rules and regulations.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

A little confusing, care to elaborate and what residency status you are for the purposes of the topic ?

Permanent Resident.

[4MyEgo]

21 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Permanent Resident.

To Thailand ?

 

Which would make you a non-resident for tax purposes in Australia.

[Will27]

2 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

To Thailand ?

 

Which would make you a non-resident for tax purposes in Australia.

Think he means PR for Australia.

[4MyEgo]

Just now, Will27 said:

Think he means PR for Australia.

If he means PR for Australia, but resides in Thailand for more than 183 days a year, then that would still make him a non resident for tax purposes, albeit the various tests that he would have to go through, to establish his residency for tax purposes.

[tifino]

3 minutes ago, Will27 said:

Think he means PR for Australia.

Which means irrelevance to him and on an aged pension... 

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, pdtokyo said:

Scorecard ... nice to hear that re-locating to Thailand has worked for you.

 

Your positivity is inspiring and (to a newish member of this forum) ... somewhat hard to find.

 

I plan to move as 'permanently' as i can from Australia (limited savings and age pension income) and marry my Thai partner before 2020 is out.

 

It obviously worked for you, may i ask how you handled your visa situation ?

 

Yes ... life is good ... and certainly better than the alternative ... and, yes, 'mould' may be an issue in parts of Thailand but that's not going to put me off.

 

 

I was transferred to Thailand by my employer, although I had previously had a 2 week holiday here, mostly in Chiang Mai.

 

The local admin. folks from my company were very focused, knowledgeable, friendly, professional and prompt, the main lady alerted me to the possibility of Permanent Residence (PR) and asked if I was interested.

 

My response was 'sure, why not', so she ensured my WP documents and my personal tax records were kept in order. When I had the right profile of WP's / personal Thai tax I applied and I got PR within the same year.

 

That's 20+ years back.

 

Life is good.

 

 

[rhodie]

On 1/26/2020 at 8:27 AM, pdtokyo said:

I plan to move as 'permanently' as i can from Australia (limited savings and age pension income) and marry my Thai partner before 2020 is out.

You do know that by marrying her, you will reduce your pension to the married rate.

[Artisi]

5 hours ago, rhodie said:

You do know that by marrying her, you will reduce your pension to the married rate.

Get married in Thailand and just forget about reporting your marriage to centrelink, I won't tell if you don't. 

[moojar]

^ Fully agree with you re the 'dot connecting', and I'm sure you know of 'robo debt'.  But geez, your budget is tight.  Even the single pension rate is tight, I cannot imagine trying to survive on half the married rate.  You'd have to live like a local, out catching frogs for dinner.  So if you can get that visa without being her 'partner' it will save you a lot of grief IMO.  Or just skip her trip to Oz, take her "overseas" to Cambodia or Laos.   

[johnny1966]

Apologies if this has already been answered, but does anyone know the exact number of years one has to have lived in Australia, and, how long one has to have paid tax in Australia, as an Australian resident in order to be eligible for the old age pension?

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, johnny1966 said:

Apologies if this has already been answered, but does anyone know the exact number of years one has to have lived in Australia, and, how long one has to have paid tax in Australia, as an Australian resident in order to be eligible for the old age pension?

Your birthdate for Age Pension       Age Date to claim 

 

1 January 1954 to 30 June 1955      66 years old 

1 July 1955 to 31 December 1956    66 years and 6 months old

On or after 1 January 1957             67 years old 

 

Australian Working Life Residence (AWLR). A person is able to continue receiving the full amount overseas that they are eligible for within Australia if they have an AWLR of 35 years of more.

 

It's not calculated by how many years tax has been paid.

 

It's calculated by years a citizen was in Australia from 16th birthday.  

 

The applicant must have the classification of 'resident' to be able to apply, and must physically be in Australia on the date of lodging the application.

 

For people born outside of Australia these rules can be a bit different especially if the person lived in another country and then migrated to Australia and that person is entitled to some form of pension/allowance from the other country. See the Centrelink website for more details. 

 

Centrelink has a permanent live link to Australian Immigration which means they have an ongoing continuously building file on your movements every time you leave and return to Australia but they don't know where you go when your out of Australia.

 

If you achieve 'portability' they will pay you the full basic pension and they will transfer the funds to a bank outside of Australia every 4 weeks (every second fortnight). But you don't receive other allowances like the electricity allowance. The bank account you nominate outside of Australia can be an account in your name or it can be a joint account, you and another person.  

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

Your birthdate for Age Pension       Age Date to claim 

 

1 January 1954 to 30 June 1955      66 years old 

1 July 1955 to 31 December 1956    66 years and 6 months old

On or after 1 January 1957             67 years old 

 

Australian Working Life Residence (AWLR). A person is able to continue receiving the full amount overseas that they are eligible for within Australia if they have an AWLR of 35 years of more.

 

It's not calculated by how many years tax has been paid.

 

It's calculated by years a citizen was in Australia from 16th birthday.  

 

The applicant must have the classification of 'resident' to be able to apply, and must physically be in Australia on the date of lodging the application.

 

For people born outside of Australia these rules can be a bit different especially if the person lived in another country and then migrated to Australia and that person is entitled to some form of pension/allowance from the other country. See the Centrelink website for more details. 

 

Centrelink has a permanent live link to Australian Immigration which means they have an ongoing continuously building file on your movements every time you leave and return to Australia but they don't know where you go when your out of Australia.

 

If you achieve 'portability' they will pay you the full basic pension and they will transfer the funds to a bank outside of Australia every 4 weeks (every second fortnight). But you don't receive other allowances like the electricity allowance. The bank account you nominate outside of Australia can be an account in your name or it can be a joint account, you and another person.  

I add a little more to my words above:

 

"It's not calculated by how many years tax has been paid."

 

However on the application form you do have to quote your Australian Tax file number. 

 

I lodged the application at a Centrelink office however you can lodge it on-line (along with your assets and income statement, on-line). 

 

The Centrelink officer commented something like 'You must quote your AOT number however Centrelink does not actually contact the AOT to check anything about your taxes'.

 

 

 

[scorecard]

44 minutes ago, scorecard said:

I add a little more to my words above:

 

"It's not calculated by how many years tax has been paid."

 

However on the application form you do have to quote your Australian Tax file number. 

 

I lodged the application at a Centrelink office however you can lodge it on-line (along with your assets and income statement, on-line). 

 

The Centrelink officer commented something like You must quote your AOT number:

 

1. however Centrelink does not actually contact the AOT to check anything about your taxes.

 

2. but if for some other reason you come under the radar of the AOT and they ask Centrelink for information whether you are receiving a pension or whatever and how much, then Centrelink must respond.

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

My apology, AOT is wrong, should be ATO (Australian Tax Office.

[RJRS1301]

8 hours ago, scorecard said:

however Centrelink does not actually contact the AOT to check anything about your taxes.

 

The data from both agencies are cross matched for declared income if one is receiving any type of government benefit though, it is done a regular basis.

 

[scorecard]

3 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

The data from both agencies are cross matched for declared income if one is receiving any type of government benefit though, it is done a regular basis.

 

Sure.

[nev]

15 hours ago, scorecard said:

Your birthdate for Age Pension       Age Date to claim 

 

1 January 1954 to 30 June 1955      66 years old 

1 July 1955 to 31 December 1956    66 years and 6 months old

On or after 1 January 1957             67 years old 

 

Australian Working Life Residence (AWLR). A person is able to continue receiving the full amount overseas that they are eligible for within Australia if they have an AWLR of 35 years of more.

 

It's not calculated by how many years tax has been paid.

 

It's calculated by years a citizen was in Australia from 16th birthday.  

 

The applicant must have the classification of 'resident' to be able to apply, and must physically be in Australia on the date of lodging the application.

 

For people born outside of Australia these rules can be a bit different especially if the person lived in another country and then migrated to Australia and that person is entitled to some form of pension/allowance from the other country. See the Centrelink website for more details. 

 

Centrelink has a permanent live link to Australian Immigration which means they have an ongoing continuously building file on your movements every time you leave and return to Australia but they don't know where you go when your out of Australia.

 

If you achieve 'portability' they will pay you the full basic pension and they will transfer the funds to a bank outside of Australia every 4 weeks (every second fortnight). But you don't receive other allowances like the electricity allowance. The bank account you nominate outside of Australia can be an account in your name or it can be a joint account, you and another person.  

Can you get the payment payed into a transferwise account or does it have to be a bank account?.

[scorecard]

38 minutes ago, nev said:

Can you get the payment payed into a transferwise account or does it have to be a bank account?.

You can still have it paid fortnightly into a bank account in Australia but sorry I don't know what other payment options might exist. 

 

Others have mentioned that the monthly payment to a bank abroad is quite fast and pretty much always available on the pension date, and occasionally 1 day early. 

[ripstanley]

1 hour ago, nev said:

Can you get the payment payed into a transferwise account or does it have to be a bank account?.

The exchange rate paid from the Australian Government to your Account in Thailand is a lot better then you get from Transferwise

[johnny1966]

23 hours ago, scorecard said:

Your birthdate for Age Pension       Age Date to claim 

 

1 January 1954 to 30 June 1955      66 years old 

1 July 1955 to 31 December 1956    66 years and 6 months old

On or after 1 January 1957             67 years old 

 

Australian Working Life Residence (AWLR). A person is able to continue receiving the full amount overseas that they are eligible for within Australia if they have an AWLR of 35 years of more.

 

It's not calculated by how many years tax has been paid.

 

It's calculated by years a citizen was in Australia from 16th birthday.  

 

The applicant must have the classification of 'resident' to be able to apply, and must physically be in Australia on the date of lodging the application.

 

For people born outside of Australia these rules can be a bit different especially if the person lived in another country and then migrated to Australia and that person is entitled to some form of pension/allowance from the other country. See the Centrelink website for more details. 

 

Centrelink has a permanent live link to Australian Immigration which means they have an ongoing continuously building file on your movements every time you leave and return to Australia but they don't know where you go when your out of Australia.

 

If you achieve 'portability' they will pay you the full basic pension and they will transfer the funds to a bank outside of Australia every 4 weeks (every second fortnight). But you don't receive other allowances like the electricity allowance. The bank account you nominate outside of Australia can be an account in your name or it can be a joint account, you and another person.  

Thanks for the detailed advice. So, according to what you've stated, if I lived in Australia from birth till 34 years old, and have been living abroad ever since, (I'm now 53) I will not be eligible for the pension, even if I move back to Australia. Correct?

[nev]

7 hours ago, ripstanley said:

The exchange rate paid from the Australian Government to your Account in Thailand is a lot better then you get from Transferwise

Thanks it must be a good rate then as transferwise has a excellent rate too but you do get charged a fee.

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, johnny1966 said:

Thanks for the detailed advice. So, according to what you've stated, if I lived in Australia from birth till 34 years old, and have been living abroad ever since, (I'm now 53) I will not be eligible for the pension, even if I move back to Australia. Correct?

From here I suggest you go on line and find the Centrelink website and look at the full details on this point. It could be that your entitled to a proportion e.g. 18/35 but I don't know if there is a lower cut off. e.g. perhaps you can only claim a part pension at 10/35 but no entitlement lower than 10/35. This is just a wild example, I really don't know this detail, that's why I'm suggesting find the Centrelink OAP stuff on the WWW. 

 

Other TV members might be able to give you an exact answer on this point, hopefully others will give more details.

 

Also note that there is an assets and income test, if you own a very expensive home and have very big bucks or big investments that can cut down your entitlement to the OAP.    

 

You mention you're now 53, so that means born in 1967. So to lodge a claim for the OAP you need to be 67 years old.

 

You need to be physically in Australia on the day you lodge the application* and there are no exceptions to this rule (*meaning application for the OAP and the assets and Income test). 

 

If you've been living abroad long-term you need to return (and lodge the application) and remain in Australia for 2 years to re-establish 'residency'. To do this you need to prove you have bought a home or show a rental agreement, in either case your name must be shown, plus you need to show several documents such as electricity or gas bills, council rates, drivers license, bank documents etc., in your name.

 

During this 2 years you can go abroad for short visits several times.

 

If approved (approval nowadays takes about 4 weeks) the payments then start immediately. 

 

After the two years in Australia to re-establish residency you would then be entitled to 'portability', meaning you can receive the payments anywhere in the world for life.

 

However if you are entitled to a pension from another country this can change your entitlement to a lower proportion, but you need to read the full details to get an exact answer. 

 

In the past Centrelink seemed to have a bad reputation for rudeness and being unhelpful however I found them to be just the opposite. They encourage people to contact them by phone or e.mail. The staff at the office I visited a couple of times (big office, outer Sydney area) were pleasant, respectful, quite helpful and good listeners and I waited just 10 minutes to see an officer.

 

Perhaps the  way to get a clear answer about any part pension entitlement would be to call them* however if you give your name be careful what you say e.g. don't say 'my permanent home is in Paris' because this will be taken to mean you have no intention of returning to Australia. And phone calls to many government agencies are now automatically recorded and then can easily recall any phone conversations. *You can't contact an individual office by phone, you speak to a central office (I think it's located in Canberra).

 

Sorry I can't be more specific but with some luck other Ozzie members will add more.

 

Good luck. 

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, nev said:

Thanks it must be a good rate then as transferwise has a excellent rate too but you do get charged a fee.

I receive a DVA Disability Pension from my service in Vietnam, when it started the DVA officer explained that payments abroad are processed through a different banking system which bypasses commercial bank charges and commissions etc. 

 

It's always in my local Thai bank account (I check my online banking and I get an SMS message) on the actual payday or occasionally 1 day early.

 

Given that Thai banks are not that fast at this type of processing I wonder if this indicates it's a different system.

 

(Twenty + years ago for funds transferred through banks it was common to wait as much as three months before the Thai banks actually lodged the money into your account and it was well proven they deliberately held the funds as long as possible in their funds available to play the global money markets.)

[simple1]

On 4/19/2020 at 8:31 AM, scorecard said:

I receive a DVA Disability Pension from my service in Vietnam, when it started the DVA officer explained that payments abroad are processed through a different banking system which bypasses commercial bank charges and commissions etc. 

 

It's always in my local Thai bank account (I check my online banking and I get an SMS message) on the actual payday or occasionally 1 day early.

 

Given that Thai banks are not that fast at this type of processing I wonder if this indicates it's a different system.

 

(Twenty + years ago for funds transferred through banks it was common to wait as much as three months before the Thai banks actually lodged the money into your account and it was well proven they deliberately held the funds as long as possible in their funds available to play the global money markets.)

Exchange rate is based upon the Reserve Bank rate. Don't know which financial institution processes the transaction.

[norbra]

10 hours ago, simple1 said:

Exchange rate is based upon the Reserve Bank rate. Don't know which financial institution processes the transaction.

Last time I asked,some years ago now, Treasury were using Citibank to deposit your pension in a foreign bank account

[4MyEgo]

Just a few questions regarding the OAP, sure it's been bashed around a bit, but am looking at returning to Oz with the family in the not too distant future and want to know how they look at the asset/s side of things and the threshold.

 

Examples:

 

I have shares in the stock market, some pay me a dividend, other don't, I also have funds in the bank.

 

Question: Do they assess my asset/s (stocks) and money in the bank on the income I make during the financial year as well as their value, I think the term is known as deeming, however I only saw this on the website for those on the disability pension and I would be looking at applying for the OAP, although it is a few years away, but better to plan now and be prepared.

 

Question: What is the threshold for non home-owners as I will be looking at renting.

 

For those replying please hit the quote button as for some reason I don't get an email advising someone has replied otherwise.

 

Thanks

[RJRS1301]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Just a few questions regarding the OAP, sure it's been bashed around a bit, but am looking at returning to Oz with the family in the not too distant future and want to know how they look at the asset/s side of things and the threshold.

 

Examples:

 

I have shares in the stock market, some pay me a dividend, other don't, I also have funds in the bank.

 

Question: Do they assess my asset/s (stocks) and money in the bank on the income I make during the financial year as well as their value, I think the term is known as deeming, however I only saw this on the website for those on the disability pension and I would be looking at applying for the OAP, although it is a few years away, but better to plan now and be prepared.

 

Question: What is the threshold for non home-owners as I will be looking at renting.

 

For those replying please hit the quote button as for some reason I don't get an email advising someone has replied otherwise.

 

Thanks

https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/individuals/topics/deeming/29656

 

https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/individuals/services/centrelink/age-pension/how-much-you-can-get/assets-test/assets#assetstestlimits