Australian Aged Pension

[KhunHeineken]

40 minutes ago, Will27 said:

You said this.

 

The ATO will then instruct the banks to tax the interest at non resident rates of account holders outside of Australia for more than 183 day, and forward it to them".

 

Is it you opinion, prediction or factual?

Because you've posted it as fact.

How can it be factual when the new changes haven't come in yet.  I thought this was a given.  

 

Ok, it's  prediction, for when the new changes come in, if the new changes come in.  

 

Blind Freddy can see what these new changes are designed to do, and who they target.  

 

Once again, we are going around in circles.

 

Good luck should the new changes come in.  

[scorecard]

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

We are going around in circles.

 

My last several posts have been proving with links what the last several posts before them have been about.

 

I, and others, have posted links to the new changes.  (THEY ARE NOT IN YET - NO ONE SAID THEY WERE) In my opinion they will come in, if others feel differently, that's fine.

 

Good luck with the new changes, should they come in.  

Now, please cease!

[Will27]

8 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

We are going around in circles.

 

My last several posts have been proving with links what the last several posts before them have been about.

 

I, and others, have posted links to the new changes.  (THEY ARE NOT IN YET - NO ONE SAID THEY WERE) In my opinion they will come in, if others feel differently, that's fine.

 

Good luck with the new changes, should they come in.  

That's the point I've been trying to make.

 

You posted a link and said people with HECS debts have been stopped from leaving the country.

The link said nothing of the sort.

When I questioned you about it, you went off on another tangent.

 

You said tax debts weren't written off.

I told you they were, and again you went off about people not being able to come back to Australia.

 

You also said "banks have been instructed to change someone from a resident to a non-resident".

When I asked for proof you sent a link about TFN's not being supplied.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, Will27 said:

You might want to laugh and say "who cares", but you're not seeing the big picture.

It's not about bank interest.

 

KhunHeineken said the ATO would instruct the bank to tax as you a non-resident.

If that is correct, which I don't think it is, it would mean you have been classed as a non-resident

which mean all income will be taxed at those rates.

 

Quite correct, but how is the ATO going to know what you have invested in? Only if you tell them in a tax return lodged with them.

The ATO is connected with  Centrelink, and if they start taxing the OAP, I simply won't put in a tax return the next time around. Plenty of people doing that already.

[KhunHeineken]

28 minutes ago, Will27 said:

TBF, you've posted a lot of unfounded information as fact.

When you do that, you should expect to get questioned.

The facts, which are the proposed changes, and have been linked by me, and others, are there for all to see.

 

What followed was discussion about those facts.  Some of that discussion were my posts, where I have clearly stated my opinion, and made some predictions.  Obviously, these were about IF the new changes come in, and what impact they MAY have on expats.  

 

Some of my opinions were formed around other facts, and I have also linked the other facts. 

 

I have since fielded questions, about other question, about other questions.

 

We are going around in circles.  Like I said, you have the new changes, they are the facts.  What you do with that information is up to you.   Some are under the belief there will be no impact to them at all, and that's fine.  

 

We all have a different relationship with the ATO.  I am quite sure I will be impacted, same with a few friends.  I am already preparing to deal with that impact.  

 

I wish you the best of luck dealing with them also, should they come in.  

[KhunHeineken]

8 minutes ago, Will27 said:

That's the point I've been trying to make.

 

You posted a link and said people with HECS debts have been stopped from leaving the country.

The link said nothing of the sort.

When I questioned you about it, you went off on another tangent.

 

You said tax debts weren't written off.

I told you they were, and again you went off about people not being able to come back to Australia.

 

You also said "banks have been instructed to change someone from a resident to a non-resident".

When I asked for proof you sent a link about TFN's not being supplied.

You should disregard every post I have made on the topic.  The content is of little value.  

 

Good luck with the new changes, should they come in.  

[KhunHeineken]

13 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Now, please cease!

It's like that scene from the movie The Godfather.

 

"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in."   ????

[KhunHeineken]

8 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Quite correct, but how is the ATO going to know what you have invested in? Only if you tell them in a tax return lodged with them.

The ATO is connected with  Centrelink, and if they start taxing the OAP, I simply won't put in a tax return the next time around. Plenty of people doing that already.

Why do you think your TFN is attached to your bank account?

 

No need for a tax return.  They know you are a non resident, because immigration has told them you are outside Australia for 183 days.  You simply may get 32.5% less pension, but hey, I'm scaremongering again for something that hasn't even come in yet, and I'm only make predictions.  ????

[Will27]

2 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Why do you think your TFN is attached to your bank account?

 

No need for a tax return.  They know you are a non resident, because immigration has told them you are outside Australia for 183 days.  You simply may get 32.5% less pension, but hey, I'm scaremongering again for something that hasn't even come in yet, and I'm only make predictions.  ????

You keep banging on about this.

 

If you're deemed to be a non-resident by the ATO, you will be taxed accordingly, by the ATO.

I'm pretty sure Centrelink won't be reducing your pension.

That's not their job.

 

I take it you've obviously not heard of natural justice either.

[KhunHeineken]

2 minutes ago, Will27 said:

I'm pretty sure Centrelink won't be reducing your pension.

Do you have a link for this?

 

Is this your opinion?  Is this a prediction?

 

We don't know what they will do because it's not in yet, but I bet they know what they will be doing.  Everything has already been planned.  We will have to wait and see.  

 

[scorecard]

24 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Quite correct, but how is the ATO going to know what you have invested in? Only if you tell them in a tax return lodged with them.

The ATO is connected with  Centrelink, and if they start taxing the OAP, I simply won't put in a tax return the next time around. Plenty of people doing that already.

But perhaps that could mean, in some revised regulations that Centrelink will be required to remove tax for some pensioners living abroad before transfer of the balance to  the  pensioners overseas bank account. 

 

Nobody knows and there's way too much assumption going on.

 

It could well be that the gov't will creat/adapt/continue polices which to a major degree protect old age pensioners with no asssets or other income.

 

Seems to me that the gov't will be very wary of upsetting pensioners etc.

 

We wait and see.

 

Enough please. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by scorecard

[LosLobo]

18 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Do you have a link for this?

 

Is this your opinion?  Is this a prediction?

 

We don't know what they will do because it's not in yet, but I bet they know what they will be doing.  Everything has already been planned.  We will have to wait and see.  

 

[Will27]

21 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Do you have a link for this?

 

Is this your opinion?  Is this a prediction?

 

We don't know what they will do because it's not in yet, but I bet they know what they will be doing.  Everything has already been planned.  We will have to wait and see.  

 

Well, being a non-resident for tax purposes means you will be taxed accordingly by the ATO.

AFAIK, Centrelink have nothing to do with taxes.

 

So as an educated guess, I'll assume it's done by the ATO.

 

I thought you were done with it?

 

 

[Will27]

25 minutes ago, scorecard said:

But perhaps that could mean, in some revised regulations that Centrelink will be required to remove tax for some pensioners living abroad before transfer of the balance to  the  pensioners overseas bank account. 

 

Nobody knows and there's way too much assumption going on.

 

It could well be that the gov't will creat/adapt/continue polices which to a major degree protect old age pensioners with no asssets or other income.

 

Seems to me that the gov't will be very wary of upsetting pensioners etc.

 

We wait and see.

 

Enough please. 

I can't see why the government would put taxation collection onto Centrelink TBH.

Also, like you alluded to, they might make pensions non-taxable.

[KhunHeineken]

6 minutes ago, Will27 said:

Well, being a non-resident for tax purposes means you will be taxed accordingly by the ATO.

AFAIK, Centrelink have nothing to do with taxes.

 

So as an educated guess, I'll assume it's done by the ATO.

 

I thought you were done with it?

 

 

I'm done explaining myself.  

 

Short answers, no problem.

 

Do you think it's possible, even remotely possible, one government agency will talk to the other agency.? 

 

Could the ATO talk to Centerlink and tell them a pension recipient has been deemed a non resident and Centerlink adjusts their pension accordingly?  

 

I'll put it to you as a question, because I would not want you to think I am making stuff up, posting opinion, or predictions, or giving advice.  

[KhunHeineken]

12 minutes ago, Will27 said:

I can't see why the government would put taxation collection onto Centrelink TBH.

There would be nothing to collect, it becomes a savings for the government.    

Edited May 4, 2022 by KhunHeineken

[Will27]

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

I'm done explaining myself.  

 

Short answers, no problem.

 

Do you think it's possible, even remotely possible, one government agency will talk to the other agency.? 

 

Could the ATO talk to Centerlink and tell them a pension recipient has been deemed a non resident and Centerlink adjusts their pension accordingly?  

 

I'll put it to you as a question, because I would not want you to think I am making stuff up, posting opinion, or predictions, or giving advice.  

Why would the ATO put taxation duties onto another government agency?

It makes no sense to involve Centrelink.

 

Just let it be done by the agency who looks after taxation.

It's not hard.

[Will27]

2 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

There would be nothing to collect, it becomes a savings for the government.    

What happens when you lodge a tax return?

All of the income will be assessed at non-resident rates.

 

With your theory, the pension would have to be exempt as income as tax would've

already been taken out.

 

It's all to messy.

 

Just leave it with the ATO.

[KhunHeineken]

7 minutes ago, Will27 said:

Why would the ATO put taxation duties onto another government agency?

It makes no sense to involve Centrelink.

 

Just let it be done by the agency who looks after taxation.

It's not hard.

Do you think it could be because the payer can also be the taxer, being the government?  

 

Why would Centerlink give the full pension every fortnight, then the ATO has to chase some of that pension as a tax?  Too much work, too costly.

 

Do you think the ATO could just tell Centerlink to give 32.5% less pension to people they know who are overseas for 183 days?  Pension paid and tax paid, at the same time.  

 

Note the questions, not predictions, opinions, advice.  

[KhunHeineken]

11 minutes ago, Will27 said:

What happens when you lodge a tax return?

How many expat pensioners lodge tax returns?

 

11 minutes ago, Will27 said:

All of the income will be assessed at non-resident rates.

Correct.  That is the law.  From dollar number one, no tax free threshold.

 

12 minutes ago, Will27 said:

With your theory, the pension would have to be exempt as income as tax would've

already been taken out.

I didn't put forward a theory, I asked you some simple questions.

 

Expats will still get a pension.  It just MAY be less 32.5% because non resident tax has been taken out, IF pensions are not exempt. 

 

Same as you work for someone and at the end of the week the boss takes out tax and super, and you get the rest.   

 

16 minutes ago, Will27 said:

It's all to messy.

 

Just leave it with the ATO.

No, it's easy, too easy for them. That's why they are bringing in the changes.  

 

Example: 

 

John Smith is an Aussie and been living in Thailand for a few years on an Aussie pension. The new laws come in.  Immigration then shows John Smith is outside of Australia for 183 days and informs the ATO.  The ATO inform Centerlink, and the pension is taxed at a non resident rate.  John Smith gets a smaller pension each fortnight.  Computers do everything, and John Smith can't ask for a review, or appeal.  They have John Smith on toast. 

 

Is what I described an opinion, a theory, a prediction, advice, making stuff up?  Regardless if it's one, or all of these, is it possible?  

 

 

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

Do you have a link for this?

 

Is this your opinion?  Is this a prediction?

 

We don't know what they will do because it's not in yet, but I bet they know what they will be doing.  Everything has already been planned.  We will have to wait and see.  

 

So, as you said, let's wait and see.

[scorecard]

33 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I'm done explaining myself.  

 

Short answers, no problem.

 

Do you think it's possible, even remotely possible, one government agency will talk to the other agency.? 

 

Could the ATO talk to Centerlink and tell them a pension recipient has been deemed a non resident and Centerlink adjusts their pension accordingly?  

 

I'll put it to you as a question, because I would not want you to think I am making stuff up, posting opinion, or predictions, or giving advice.  

And you keep on and on and on with what's just become reptition and repetition and involving lots of assumptions.

 

Please enough, lets wait and see.

[KhunHeineken]

1 minute ago, scorecard said:

So, as you said, let's wait and see.

Yes, but I am already making plans for a few possible scenarios. I don't want to wait until it's on me to make some moves.  

 

Like I said, it was just a heads up for members and then the following discussion got busy.

[KhunHeineken]

3 minutes ago, scorecard said:

And you keep on and on and on with what's just become reptition and repetition and involving lots of assumptions.

 

Please enough, lets wait and see.

I've showed some courtesy by replying to posts directed at me.  

 

No need to reply to this post.  ????  

[deej]

3 minutes ago, scorecard said:

And you keep on and on and on with what's just become reptition and repetition and involving lots of assumptions.

 

Please enough, lets wait and see.

Scorecard , the member signed off, a couple hrs or so ago, on the topic , but is still posting,which IMO is all Froth and Wind information

I agree ,wait til the Sh#t hit,s the  fan and take it,  from there????

 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, deej said:

Scorecard , the member signed off, a couple hrs or so ago, on the topic , but is still posting,which IMO is all Froth and Wind information

I agree ,wait til the Sh#t hit,s the  fan and take it,  from there????

 

I'd suggest if - and it's a big IF - the s##t does hit the fan, many pensioners will be minimizing what the government can get its hands on. I know I will be.

As Kerry Packer once famously said, anyone who doesn't minimize their tax needs their head read, because you guys don't spend it so well we should just give it to you.

[deej]

15 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I'd suggest if - and it's a big IF - the s##t does hit the fan, many pensioners will be minimizing what the government can get its hands on. I know I will be.

As Kerry Packer once famously said, anyone who doesn't minimize their tax needs their head read, because you guys don't spend it so well we should just give it to you.

From my up to date , homework ,  on any change to  Our portable oversea,s pension being changed as being discussed on this thread, particular by one misinformed member, is all B/S , it remains Status Quo

to this point of time, according to reliable sources , so to all,  relax  until any Govt announcement is forthcoming, which IMO 

is  not in the immediate future or not at all, i expect the latter, and if i,am mistaken,  we will be Grandfathered in????

 

 

 

[scorecard]

3 minutes ago, deej said:

From my up to date , homework ,  on any change to  Our portable oversea,s pension being changed as being discussed on this thread, particular by one misinformed member, is all B/S , it remains Status Quo

to this point of time, according to reliable sources , so to all,  relax  until any Govt announcement is forthcoming, which IMO 

is  not in the immediate future or not at all, i expect the latter, and if i,am mistaken,  we will be Grandfathered in????

 

 

 

Thank you. Also seems to me that the oap pensions (those who have no other assets or income) will remain as non taxable.

 

Also seems to me that no government would want to cop the angst of pensioners at the ballot box by taxing basic pensions in any way. 

 

I also get a DVA disability pension (name has recently changed to DVA Disability Compensation Allowance), that's very firmly defined as non taxable and I very much doubt the non taxable classification will ever change. 

 

Ultimately we wait and see. 

[Nemises]

4 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Ultimately we wait and see.

Exactly. And until then, could the scaremongers please go elsewhere.  

[Old Croc]

I've never applied for nor received a cent of the OAP (or whatever it's called now), but do receive a superannuation pension from my years slaving for the govt.

It is taxed, but at a reasonable, residents rate. This proposed way of taxing my stipend would definitely hurt, and affect my lifestyle. I decided some time ago that I will never return to Australia

My on-line tax form comes prefilled by ATO, all I do each year is confirm the detail. I will be waiting with some trepidation to see how it is completed this year.