Australian Aged Pension

[KhunHeineken]

9 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I am wondering if he is an ex-public servant, I just can't see him surviving for long in private industry with such relentless negativity.

Aren't certain people paid to look at the negatives?  Eg. financial analysts.  They are paid to predict the troughs as well, not just the peaks.  What about guys working in health and safety.  They are paid to look at the worst case scenario for workplace accidents. 

 

When it comes to tax, look at the worse, and anything other than that is a bonus. 

[KhunHeineken]

10 hours ago, Lacessit said:

IIRC you suggested using an ATM with an Aussie debit card. That's another avenue.

 

IME, when governments do something stupid, people will always manage to find a way to neuter the stupidity.

Tax should be looked at as just another bill to pay, and there's nothing illegal about minimizing that bill.  Tax minimization is legal, tax avoidance is illegal. 

 

More your money around, take advantages of thresholds, low tax jurisdictions, favorable laws etc etc. 

 

Thailand now wants a cut of your money.  I suggest Australia will not be far behind them, after all, in relation to pensioners, it is the Australian government's money, and none of it is going into the Australian economy, so it makes sense they want at least some of it back. 

[Lacessit]

7 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

But do your research about charges imposed on using ATM cards / Debit cards in Oz, cards issued by foreign banks. 

 

I discovered that ANZ bank imposed very small charges for withdrawals in Oz using K Bank Debit card.

 

On the other hand all the other Oz banks have bigger / quite steep charges. One Oz bank charges me AU$34- for using my K Bank debit card in their Oz ATM. I can't remember which Oz bank it was so I'll not guess.

I am talking about using an Australian debit card to withdraw baht from a Thai ATM.

[Lacessit]

39 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Tax should be looked at as just another bill to pay, and there's nothing illegal about minimizing that bill.  Tax minimization is legal, tax avoidance is illegal. 

 

More your money around, take advantages of thresholds, low tax jurisdictions, favorable laws etc etc. 

 

Thailand now wants a cut of your money.  I suggest Australia will not be far behind them, after all, in relation to pensioners, it is the Australian government's money, and none of it is going into the Australian economy, so it makes sense they want at least some of it back. 

You may be right. However, I would argue we are less of a burden on the public purse than pensioners in Australia.

We don't clog up public hospitals. We don't use the PBS for our medications. We don't get rent assistance, energy or phone supplements. We don't get a couple's pension if we are in a relationship with a Thai.

IMO all the talk of not contributing to the Australian economy comes from miseryguts who are envious of our lifestyle.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

Aren't certain people paid to look at the negatives?  Eg. financial analysts.  They are paid to predict the troughs as well, not just the peaks.  What about guys working in health and safety.  They are paid to look at the worst case scenario for workplace accidents. 

 

When it comes to tax, look at the worse, and anything other than that is a bonus. 

Noted you are not denying you are/were a public servant.

[4MyEgo]

10 hours ago, Lacessit said:

His post about using an ATM with an Australian credit/debit card, and the website for a company which purportedly enables retirement visas/extensions for foreigners who don't meet the financial requirements.

 

Use of ATM card usually come with a charge of about 200 baht per 20,000 baht maximum, per time transactions, i.e. every time you make a transaction up to you Australian credit/debit card limit, you will x that by, suffice to say if my limit is $2,000 per day and I want it all in that day, I would be up for 2 x 200 baht in that day, using the LOWER exchange rate, that ATM's usually give, then you have to add the charges that your bank will make back in Australia, usually about the same, so it would be a double wammy, plus a lower exchange rate IMO.

 

As for retirement visa/extensions, we all know of these agents that will go down the illegal route for xyz baht.

 

Everyone has choices and if you want to use the ATM route, be prepared to pay the price, same applies with agents going down the illegal route.

 

I don't believe he has added any value to anything he has provided out of the 747 strikes he has provided, and of course we all know that a person who won't admit that they are WRONG is unrepentant.

[LosLobo]

10 hours ago, Lacessit said:

To give the devil his due, he has come up with two potentially useful pieces of information. I suppose out of 747 posts, he had to get a couple that actually contributed.

 

I am wondering if he is an ex-public servant, I just can't see him surviving for long in private industry with such relentless negativity.

Giving the devil his due is akin to feeding a troll.

A broken clock comes up with potentially useful pieces of information as well, twice a day, every day.
 

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Use of ATM card usually come with a charge of about 200 baht per 20,000 baht maximum, per time transactions, i.e. every time you make a transaction up to you Australian credit/debit card limit, you will x that by, suffice to say if my limit is $2,000 per day and I want it all in that day, I would be up for 2 x 200 baht in that day, using the LOWER exchange rate, that ATM's usually give, then you have to add the charges that your bank will make back in Australia, usually about the same, so it would be a double wammy, plus a lower exchange rate IMO.

 

As for retirement visa/extensions, we all know of these agents that will go down the illegal route for xyz baht.

 

Everyone has choices and if you want to use the ATM route, be prepared to pay the price, same applies with agents going down the illegal route.

 

I don't believe he has added any value to anything he has provided out of the 747 strikes he has provided, and of course we all know that a person who won't admit that they are WRONG is unrepentant.

Another option I have is to bring in Australian dollars and exchange them for baht at SuperRich or the like, the rates are competitive.

As I said before, when governments try on stupid things, people look for ways to circumvent them.

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

Giving the devil his due is akin to feeding a troll.

A broken clock comes up with potentially useful pieces of information as well, twice a day, every day.
 

I'd agree it's a bit like a Test opener making 20 ducks in a row.

[4MyEgo]

19 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Noted you are not denying you are/were a public servant.

 

If I was a betting man, I would bet that in no way, shape or form that he was in tax or finance because he has no idea what he is talking about, maybe, just maybe a politicians side kick, at the lowest entry that there is, because we all know how they put a spin on things, you know, always denying things, even after contradicting themselves, then deflecting, so as to avoid admitting that they were WRONG.

 

One minute they say they have stopped researching, then in the same post admit that they say they are still researching, if that' not contradicting oneself then I don't know what is, then he moves onto the Germany treaty, who cares, it was never in the discussion, it's another deflection, and Article 18 he says Article 19 has to go with Article 18, but doesn't accept the fact that the provisions of Article 19 does not, if it is only the Age Pension and nothing else in Article 18, and so on and so forth, but as I have said time and time again, there was a movie out called Dumber  Dumber which could be befitting.

 

If I had to use one word of many words on this forum without being in fear of being shut down, I would say that he has a mental condition, sad really, however the word eludes me at the moment.

 

Only if he could say that he was WRONG, he would be set free, but that is a big if......as far as I'm concerned he can stay in his lane, but would recommend that he change his meds, because it's evident that they aren't working.

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

 

 

If I had to use one word of many words on this forum without being in fear of being shut down, I would say that he has a mental condition, sad really, however the word eludes me at the moment.

 

 

I have some obsessive - compulsive traits myself, in the way I order my possessions. IMO I am nowhere near the obsessive behavior KH constantly exhibits. I don't need to speculate on any other mental quirks he may have.

[4MyEgo]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I have some obsessive - compulsive traits myself, in the way I order my possessions. IMO I am nowhere near the obsessive behavior KH constantly exhibits. I don't need to speculate on any other mental quirks he may have.

 

LoL, that is so funny, 1st laugh and smile of the day, thanks for that.

 

Talking about obsessive - compulsive traits, I couldn't help myself, just having gone over and looking at Article 17 & 18 of the DTA between Australia & Germany, and can clearly say, that it is pretty much no different to the DTA between Australia & Thailand, and the 15% tax he is on about is totally misrepresented by that certain member IMO, once again.

 

Deflection, or could it be how that person reads into things, not really understanding what he is talking about, which would mean that he is WRONG....LoL, no names mentioned of course, and I just had a thought, call it my opinion, i.e. I believe that, that person could be showing a certain trait which could be Schizophrenia, that said, I am no medical professional, and could be clearly wrong, but that person does in my opinion show similar traits as defined in that condition.

 

The condition affects how a person thinks, feels, and behaves, that said, I will go and waste my time making breakfast now, take my meds, and bid you a good day. 

[Olmate]

31 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

If I was a betting man, I would bet that in no way, shape or form that he was in tax or finance because he has no idea what he is talking about, maybe, just maybe a politicians side kick, at the lowest entry that there is, because we all know how they put a spin on things, you know, always denying things, even after contradicting themselves, then deflecting, so as to avoid admitting that they were WRONG.

 

One minute they say they have stopped researching, then in the same post admit that they say they are still researching, if that' not contradicting oneself then I don't know what is, then he moves onto the Germany treaty, who cares, it was never in the discussion, it's another deflection, and Article 18 he says Article 19 has to go with Article 18, but doesn't accept the fact that the provisions of Article 19 does not, if it is only the Age Pension and nothing else in Article 18, and so on and so forth, but as I have said time and time again, there was a movie out called Dumber  Dumber which could be befitting.

 

If I had to use one word of many words on this forum without being in fear of being shut down, I would say that he has a mental condition, sad really, however the word eludes me at the moment.

 

Only if he could say that he was WRONG, he would be set free, but that is a big if......as far as I'm concerned he can stay in his lane, but would recommend that he change his meds, because it's evident that they aren't working.

  Agree mostly but yourdead wrong on his political background. Even a young liberal aint that clueless as to how the Labour Party  works.

[4MyEgo]

20 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I do know you have a real talent for taking the most negative view of any situation.

HK could start reading Confucius and learn somethings in life, as opposed to posting his negative and misleading views that are not backed up with anything of substance, suffice to say, one quote from the old boy comes to mind:

 

" A man who has committed a mistake and doesn't correct it, is committing another mistake."

 

In other words, is he admits he is WRONG and has made a mistake, he might actually grow as a person, but I think he is way past that point, then again, I could be wrong, but won't be holding my breath as I did take to the bone.  

[4MyEgo]

More clarification on the DTA in regard to the Age Pensions & Superannuation Pensions, whereby the below clearly states that Thailand can only tax Pensions, boo-hoo.

 

I strongly believe that someone has truly buried their head in the sand (HK) as opposed to "researching" further as we haven't heard from him and his so called admittance to be wrong yet.....expected though.

 

My my, at the press of a button (research), I found this to add.

 

This is particularly relevant for those living in Thailand and surviving on their Australian age-pensions, and/or on their Australian (non-government) superannuation pensions, as the tax treaty states that ONLY Thailand can tax those pensions!

 

https://www.expattaxes.com.au/update-thailand-clarifies-tax-on-foreign-income/#:~:text=This is particularly relevant for,Thailand can tax those pensions!

 

 

 

 

[Peterw42]

5 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

More clarification on the DTA in regard to the Age Pensions & Superannuation Pensions, whereby the below clearly states that Thailand can only tax Pensions, boo-hoo.

 

I strongly believe that someone has truly buried their head in the sand (HK) as opposed to "researching" further as we haven't heard from him and his so called admittance to be wrong yet.....expected though.

 

My my, at the press of a button (research), I found this to add.

 

This is particularly relevant for those living in Thailand and surviving on their Australian age-pensions, and/or on their Australian (non-government) superannuation pensions, as the tax treaty states that ONLY Thailand can tax those pensions!

 

https://www.expattaxes.com.au/update-thailand-clarifies-tax-on-foreign-income/#:~:text=This is particularly relevant for,Thailand can tax those pensions!

 

 

 

 

 

I would take anything on that expattaxes website with a grain of salt. their business is scaring expats so the expats sign up for their services.

[4MyEgo]

6 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

 

I would take anything on that expattaxes website with a grain of salt. their business is scaring expats so the expats sign up for their services.

 

It further backs up what I have been saying all along with regard to the Double Taxation Agreement between Australia and Thailand, Article's 18 & 19 to be specific. 

[Lacessit]

18 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

 

I would take anything on that expattaxes website with a grain of salt. their business is scaring expats so the expats sign up for their services.

I would be taking their advice to segregate savings and income, that's just common sense.

 

IMO the acid test will come when retirees, who only have the OAP as income, start applying for Thai tax numbers. Either they will get one, or be told cannot.

 

Anyone married to a Thai, with only the OAP, would be paying minimal tax anyway. It's probably not worth it for the RD to be chasing.

[KhunHeineken]

11 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

It further backs up what I have been saying all along with regard to the Double Taxation Agreement between Australia and Thailand, Article's 18 & 19 to be specific. 

You mean, the DTA that was made in 1989 that is set to change in the near future. 

[KhunHeineken]

11 hours ago, Lacessit said:

IMO the acid test will come when retirees, who only have the OAP as income, start applying for Thai tax numbers. Either they will get one, or be told cannot.

Why "can not" when Thailand gets 10%?  Money Number One in Thailand.  You know this. 

 

11 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Anyone married to a Thai, with only the OAP, would be paying minimal tax anyway. It's probably not worth it for the RD to be chasing.

Minimal tax is still revenue.  Why wouldn't Thailand want it from the millions of foreigners that live in Thailand? 

[KhunHeineken]

11 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

 

I would take anything on that expattaxes website with a grain of salt. their business is scaring expats so the expats sign up for their services.

The member is solely focused on the current DTA with Thailand, and has totally disregarded a later DTA with Germany, in which it clearly states pensions will be taxed 15% from the source country, being Australia.  (like previously provided)  

 

A link also previously provided states Australia is currently updating all of its DTA's with all countries.  Once again, also disregarded by the member.  

 

Th DTA Australia has with Thailand today, very well may not be the DTA Australia has with Thailand in the near future.  

 

The more recent DTA with Germany is very clear, it's 15%, no Article 18 and Article 19, it's 15%.  This is something the member refuses to accept ass a real possibility in the near future.     

[KhunHeineken]

12 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

More clarification on the DTA in regard to the Age Pensions & Superannuation Pensions, whereby the below clearly states that Thailand can only tax Pensions, boo-hoo.

 

I strongly believe that someone has truly buried their head in the sand (HK) as opposed to "researching" further as we haven't heard from him and his so called admittance to be wrong yet.....expected though.

 

My my, at the press of a button (research), I found this to add.

 

This is particularly relevant for those living in Thailand and surviving on their Australian age-pensions, and/or on their Australian (non-government) superannuation pensions, as the tax treaty states that ONLY Thailand can tax those pensions!

 

https://www.expattaxes.com.au/update-thailand-clarifies-tax-on-foreign-income/#:~:text=This is particularly relevant for,Thailand can tax those pensions!

 

 

 

 

Didn't you state previously the pension is tax free in Australia, so it is also tax free no matter where you live overseas? 

 

Now, you are stating the pension can be taxed. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 2/13/2024 at 8:50 AM, 4MyEgo said:

HK could start reading Confucius and learn somethings in life

Why Confucius?  You are the one banging on about "the law, the legislation."  BUT, "forget about Article 19." 

 

On 2/13/2024 at 8:50 AM, 4MyEgo said:

as opposed to posting his negative and misleading views that are not backed up with anything of substance,

Are the proposed changes to tax residency legislation "negative and misleading?"  If so, can you state how so? 

 

Also, why no comment on  the DTA with Germany?  You are the one that stated the Australian aged pension is not taxed in Australia, and not taxed overseas.  This is clearly WRONG for Aussie pensioners living in Germany, and probably other countries. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 2/13/2024 at 2:03 AM, Olmate said:

  Agree mostly but yourdead wrong on his political background. Even a young liberal aint that clueless as to how the Labour Party  works.

I think we all have a fair idea how politicians work, and that is, for themselves, their own benefit, no matter what political party. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 2/13/2024 at 1:54 AM, 4MyEgo said:

 

LoL, that is so funny, 1st laugh and smile of the day, thanks for that.

 

Talking about obsessive - compulsive traits, I couldn't help myself, just having gone over and looking at Article 17 & 18 of the DTA between Australia & Germany, and can clearly say, that it is pretty much no different to the DTA between Australia & Thailand, and the 15% tax he is on about is totally misrepresented by that certain member IMO, once again.

 

Deflection, or could it be how that person reads into things, not really understanding what he is talking about, which would mean that he is WRONG....LoL, no names mentioned of course, and I just had a thought, call it my opinion, i.e. I believe that, that person could be showing a certain trait which could be Schizophrenia, that said, I am no medical professional, and could be clearly wrong, but that person does in my opinion show similar traits as defined in that condition.

 

The condition affects how a person thinks, feels, and behaves, that said, I will go and waste my time making breakfast now, take my meds, and bid you a good day. 

Here's the link.

 

https://www.financeminister.gov.au/media-release/2015/11/13/new-tax-treaty-signed-germany

 

Here's the relevant section pertaining to pensions.

 

Pensions

Pensions are generally taxable only in the country of residence of the recipient. However:

• Social security benefits first paid after 31 December 2016 may also be taxed by the source country but the source country tax is limited to 15 per cent of the gross payment;
• Contributory pensions first paid after 31 December 2016 may be taxed in the source country if the pension is attributable to contributions that received certain tax concessions in the source country for at least a 15 year period;
• War persecution and similar pensions are exempt from taxation; and
• Government service pensions are taxable only in the country of residence if the individual is also a national of that country – otherwise, the pension is taxable only in the source country.

The wording "first paid after 31 December 2016" did catch my eye.  However, YOU did state pensions are not taxed in Australia and therefore are not taxed in any other country, so, I welcome your "interpretation" on the above. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 2/13/2024 at 1:33 AM, Lacessit said:

I have some obsessive - compulsive traits myself, i

Yes.  Trolling is obviously one of them. 

[4MyEgo]

Someone who's name eludes me at the moment has been banging on about old age pensioners who are residents in Thailand paying 15% tax.

 

Clearly he still has no idea what he is talking about.

 

You see, according to my calculations, it's 7%, why, because the first 150,000 THB is the tax free threshold.

 

So it goes like this for those interested, e.g. Age Pension for a single bloke is about 50,000 THB x 12 = 600,000 THB.

 

Taxable Income per year (Baht) Tax rate 0 – 150,000 Exempt

 

150,000 – 300,000 5% (7,500 THB)

 

300,000 – 500,000 10% (20,000 THB)

 

500,000 – 750,000 15% (15,000 THB) 

 

Total tax payable = (42,500 THB)

 

Then you have your deductibles as Lacessit has mentioned in a precious post, that said, by the time you get your deductions out the way, you will end up paying pretty much ZERO tax on your Age Pension.

 

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/deductions

 

After all of the above, I suppose we should be biting our fingernails for when this alleged new DTA arrives....LoL

 

 

Edited February 17 by 4MyEgo

[KhunHeineken]

On 2/13/2024 at 1:25 AM, 4MyEgo said:

 

If I was a betting man, I would bet that in no way, shape or form that he was in tax or finance because he has no idea what he is talking about, maybe, just maybe a politicians side kick, at the lowest entry that there is, because we all know how they put a spin on things, you know, always denying things, even after contradicting themselves, then deflecting, so as to avoid admitting that they were WRONG.

 

One minute they say they have stopped researching, then in the same post admit that they say they are still researching, if that' not contradicting oneself then I don't know what is, then he moves onto the Germany treaty, who cares, it was never in the discussion, it's another deflection, and Article 18 he says Article 19 has to go with Article 18, but doesn't accept the fact that the provisions of Article 19 does not, if it is only the Age Pension and nothing else in Article 18, and so on and so forth, but as I have said time and time again, there was a movie out called Dumber  Dumber which could be befitting.

 

If I had to use one word of many words on this forum without being in fear of being shut down, I would say that he has a mental condition, sad really, however the word eludes me at the moment.

 

Only if he could say that he was WRONG, he would be set free, but that is a big if......as far as I'm concerned he can stay in his lane, but would recommend that he change his meds, because it's evident that they aren't working.

Off topic. Trolling. Baiting. Personal attack. 

 

Play the post/s, not the poster. 

[KhunHeineken]

10 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Someone who's name eludes me at the moment has been banging on about old age age pensioners who are residents in Thailand paying 15% tax.

No, that's the aged pensioners in Germany paying 15% tax under a DTA that is more recent that the DTA Australia has with Thailand, and Australia is updating its DTA's with all countries. 

 

10 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Clearly he still has no idea what he is talking about.

 

You see, according to my calculations, it's 7%, why, because the first 150,000 THB is the tax free threshold.

 

So it goes like this for those interested, e.g. Age Pension for a single bloke is about 50,000 THB x 12 = 600,000 THB.

 

Taxable Income per year (Baht) Tax rate 0 – 150,000 Exempt

 

150,000 – 300,000 5% (7,500 THB)

 

300,000 – 500,000 10% (20,000 THB)

 

500,000 – 750,000 15% (15,000 THB) 

 

Total tax payable = (42,500 THB)

 

Then you have your deductibles as Lacessit has mentioned in a precious post, that said, by the time you get your deductions out the way, you will end up paying pretty much ZERO tax on your Age Pension.

All of this is irrelevant, because it's the DTA with Germany, and it's possible the DTA Australia has with Thailand in the near future may very well look the same as the one with Germany.

 

That said, it was YOU who said the pension is NOT TAXED in Australia and therefore CAN NOT be taxed overseas.  Now, it appears, you are saying it can, and will be, taxed. 

 

Why don't you admit your were WRONG? 

Edited February 17 by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

On 2/13/2024 at 1:06 AM, Lacessit said:

I'd agree it's a bit like a Test opener making 20 ducks in a row.

Unless, of course, called upon as a nightwatchman 20 times, and see out the days play, and take wickets with the ball. 

 

Once again, your narrow and negative view on the world.