Australian Aged Pension

[opalred]

i know one fellow been planning retirement for years

has a condo with a safe /brings out $9500 regular trips 

is legal as allowed under $10000 each trip

[giddyup]

Just now, opalred said:

i know one fellow been planning retirement for years

has a condo with a safe /brings out $9500 regular trips 

is legal as allowed under $10000 each trip

Why not just transfer the money direct into a Thai bank account? He still has to convert his dollars into Baht.

[Nemises]

Why not just transfer the money direct into a Thai bank account? He still has to convert his dollars into Baht.

If he opens a Thai bank account will he have to declare that when applying for Oz OAP?

[giddyup]

11 minutes ago, Gregster said:

If he opens a Thai bank account will he have to declare that when applying for Oz OAP?

I didn't. I just transfer the money online from the ANZ to my Thai bank whenever I need to. Not doing anything shonky or illegal.

[Nemises]

I also transfer money from my Oz bank (westpac) to my Thai bank account.

Just to clarify...my questions are:

1/ does one have to declare all assets to Centrelink when applying for the OAP?

2/ If yes to #1 does one have to declare the balance of any overseas bank accounts?

3/ if yes to #2, does one run the risk of having his OAP denied if Centrelink search and find undeclared money in an overseas bank account?


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[giddyup]

Just now, Gregster said:

I also transfer money from my Oz bank (westpac) to my Thai bank account.

Just to clarify...my questions are:

1/ does one have to declare all assets to Centrelink when applying for the OAP?

2/ If yes to #1 does one have to declare the balance of any overseas bank accounts?

3/ if yes to #2, does one run the risk of having his OAP denied if Centrelink search and find undeclared money in an overseas bank account?


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Yes, you do have to declare all assets, including overseas accounts. Not sure how thorough the Centrelink search may be, but unless you have millions squirreled away why take the chance. I didn't have my Thai bank account when I first started to receive the OAP so I never needed to declare anything other than assets in Australia.

[Nemises]

Yes, you do have to declare all assets, including overseas accounts. Not sure how thorough the Centrelink search may be, but unless you have millions squirreled away why take the chance. I didn't have my Thai bank account when I first started to receive the OAP so I never needed to declare anything other than assets in Australia.

Thanks.

So getting back to #1441.... rather than transferring to a bank account, it possible that ol mate is bringing back $A9,500 in CASH each trip to Thailand so that Centrelink can't trace it?

[giddyup]

20 minutes ago, Gregster said:

Thanks.

So getting back to #1441.... rather than transferring to a bank account, it possible that ol mate is bringing back $A9,500 in CASH each trip to Thailand so that Centrelink can't trace it?

I assume he's taking it out of an account in Australia, so Centrelink are probably already aware of how much he has in the bank, so he's not exactly hiding it. maybe he doesn't have a Thai bank account and keeps his cash in a safe in Thailand. All I do is move some of my money from Australia to Thailand whenever necessary.

Edited September 17, 2017 by giddyup

[Nemises]

If he has say, 5 years to go before applying for OAP and he travels to Thailand say, 4 times a year bringing 10k cash each trip. Potentially he could have 200k in cash hidden in his Thai safe that Centrelink can't trace.

When Centrelink check his bank statements at the time of applying for the OAP, the guy simply says he spent each $10k during that particular trip.

I wonder if doing the above allow someone to pass the OAP assets test whilst having an untraceable, extra 200k in his Thai safe?



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[giddyup]

7 minutes ago, Gregster said:

If he has say, 5 years to go before applying for OAP and he travels to Thailand say, 4 times a year bringing 10k cash each trip. Potentially he could have 200k in cash hidden in his Thai safe that Centrelink can't trace.

When Centrelink check his bank statements at the time of applying for the OAP, the guy simply says he spent each $10k during that particular trip.

I wonder if doing the above allow someone to pass the OAP assets test whilst having an untraceable, extra 200k in his Thai safe?



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Don't see a problem with that, if you don't mind having 200K in a Thai bank for 5 years.

[moojar]

If I were him I'd be saying "I spent $10k on entertainment on each trip    ".   But who's to say he took the money to Thailand?  He might like to have a day at the track just prior to each trip, or give an anonymous donation to charity, etc.  

 

IMO if you've just been sending money for living costs, no problem - gotta eat and pay rent right? But if you have bought a condo or have a Thai wife and have bought land / built a house etc., well that's a sum of money in "offshore assets" you might prefer not to mention.  And an audit trail of $150k or $200k transmitted offshore over a year or two would certainly get me interested were I a C/L analyst, or increasingly a C/L welfare-cheat-tracking piece of software.       

 

Of course, taking cash money $9.9k at a time means you have a lot of time in Oz, in transit, and in Thailand with a lot of cash weighing heavily in your pocket.  Might want to up the blood-pressure medication!    And leaving it sit in a safe for years too - the investment earnings you've lost!   

 

Just because you've sent money electronically in less then $10k chunks btw, doesn't mean the authorities cannot see your history if they want to.  The $10k thing is just the level at which they are automatically notified for that one transaction.    Your bank has your tax file number, which is used for a lot more than tax.  Remember Bob Hawke's 'Australia Card' that was shouted down?  It would have been used like a Thai identity card.  Your TFN is now used to track you instead.  And when you create an account with any of the non-bank money transfer companies such as 'Oz Forex' (now 'OFX') you have to prove your identity and supply your TFN. This is an anti-money-laundering measure, which is what we are discussing here when you think of it.     

 

And btw, while OFX offers better exchange rates than the banks, I find 'SuperRich Thailand' always beats OFX by around 0.25 baht - approximately $100 on a $10,000 transaction.  Plus you don't have your Thai bank taking their B500 or so whatever-it-is fee when you transfer money.  So if you have the balls for it, there's another reason to take cash.   

[halloween]

1 hour ago, Gregster said:

I also transfer money from my Oz bank (westpac) to my Thai bank account.

Just to clarify...my questions are:

1/ does one have to declare all assets to Centrelink when applying for the OAP?

2/ If yes to #1 does one have to declare the balance of any overseas bank accounts?

3/ if yes to #2, does one run the risk of having his OAP denied if Centrelink search and find undeclared money in an overseas bank account?


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I'm using the KISS principle and not opening an account here, at least not before OAP is granted. CL will deposit into an o/s account, but you have to declare yourself a non-resident. My OAP will be deposited into a credit union which doesn't charge for offshore withdrawals, and Bangkok Bank will let me pull out B50,000 from my VISA debit card (over the counter with passport) without fees. Current exchange rate was B25.4 which is acceptable.

Doing that and maintaining address, phone number, etc lets me claim I am an Oz resident doing a lot of travelling. A few weeks work each year will let me top up my pension, get medical services, might even get Oz resident tax rate if I can get a favourable ATO ruling.

Hoping my trip back will also reset the 6 months of allowances that you lose. anybody have any experience with that?

Edited September 17, 2017 by halloween

[opalred]

if the money is going from your funds over the years 

they might ask  but nothing to do with them 

you are a gambler or enjoy a lot of hookers

as i said nothing to do with them 

you have to declare bank accounts 

but the stash in the safe 

what safe/?

[Nemises]

if the money is going from your funds over the years 
they might ask  but nothing to do with them 
you are a gambler or enjoy a lot of hookers
as i said nothing to do with them 
you have to declare bank accounts 
but the stash in the safe 
what safe/?

Good question. Maybe the safe that your Thai friend has let you install in their house perhaps?

[rhodie]

4 hours ago, moojar said:

....

And btw, while OFX offers better exchange rates than the banks, I find 'SuperRich Thailand' always beats OFX by around 0.25 baht - approximately $100 on a $10,000 transaction.  Plus you don't have your Thai bank taking their B500 or so whatever-it-is fee when you transfer money.  So if you have the balls for it, there's another reason to take cash.   

Have a look at TransferWise. Better rate than OFX and no 500 Baht removed as it is a borderless transfer. And takes less than 48 hours.

[David Walden]

On 1/11/2008 at 11:12 PM, Thai Chi said:

This may help, but may change before you hit the big 65

"To lodge a claim and qualify for Age Pension, you must be:

in Australia on the day you lodge your claim - the exceptions to this rule are that the person is:

in an agreement country when the claim is lodged and is either a resident of Australia or a resident of an agreement country, or

transferring from a different payment type and does not need to lodge a claim (e.g. a person in receipt of a Disability Support Pension, turning Age Pension age does not need to lodge a claim).

In most cases, you can be paid Age Pension outside Australia indefinitely, although the rate of payment may vary after a period.

Generally able to be paid indefinitely, proportional after 26 weeks." Source.....the friendly govt centrelink office

The reduction after 26 weeks depends on a few different factors and can differ from person to person. I do know one gentleman that receives about $100 less per f'nite due to his being in Thailand full time.

I don't know how long you have been out of Aus.  But if you can claim you have been absent but still domicile in Aus i.e. you have been on holidays and that can be for quite a lengthy time, you could have a good case, you may be only temporarily out of Aus (long time).  Yes you have to be in Aus when you apply and you have to be 65 years and 9 months to apply.  In 2034 you will have to be 70 y/o to apply (a sliding scale).  I have a friend who until recently has traveled as a tourist overseas for more then 5 years and has successfully applied for the pension upon return as he said he was holidaying for this time.  You should apply but that has to be in Australia with your reason.  Appeal if they reject you.

https://www.superguide.com.au/accessing-superannuation/age-pension-asset-test-thresholds

[David Walden]

On 1/11/2008 at 6:04 AM, Nignoy said:

Sorry to be the bearer of Bad News, my wife and I are both australian old age pensioners, we were leaving australia on the 21st of september last year on a 6 month tour of asia and europe, we were informed by immigration at Brisbane if we stayed out of australia for more than 13 weeks we would both lose our age pension and have to wait a further 3 months before being eligable to apply again,so we cut short our trip and returned after 12 weeks,when we returned on the 3rd of december we contacted a solicitor to check up on this new regulation, uptil now all we are getting is conflicting informationas soon as we hear something definite in writing we will post it here Nignoy

Sorry not correct you will loose much of the pension supplement after 6 weeks about $30 or $40 per fortnight, not the pension which will be instantly restored the moment you go through immigration on your return.  Centrelink is linked to to immigration officers for this purpose, you don't have to do anything.   Don't take any notice of immigration officers they know nothing about Centrelink matters.  It used to be about 5 years ago that you lost "the pension supplement" after 13 weeks.  In most recent years this has been reduced to 6 weeks and a bit more after 6 months.  The only way you will loose your aged pension is if you have too much money or assets.  Presently $375,000 in assets above your home, if you don't have a home it goes up to about $575.000...lots of bullshit out there.

Edited September 17, 2017 by David Walden

[David Walden]

On 1/11/2008 at 3:05 PM, david96 said:

Centrelink use data matching and can access information on other Australian government departments including immigration and the ATO. This is why you always notify them before you leave Australia. Remember we are only referring to age (retirement) pensions here.

If you are married and your wife is living in Australia with you and she is below retirement age you may only get about 80% of the full single pension. That may change if you both move overseas.

Pays to check with Centrelink first.

That is correct if your wife is under pension age you will only get half of the married rate about $700 p/f you cannot get the dole overseas.  As you are married you are not entitled to a single the rate $888.30 p/f only half of the married rate.  Not different if you live overseas.  After 6 weeks absent for Aus you will loose much of the pension supplement (about $50 p/f).  If you have over the threshold that can change things a bit.

[David Walden]

On 1/11/2008 at 1:38 PM, fishhooks said:

Did I read somewhere on T.V. a while back that the Age Pension (65+) for a male, almost cuts out if you are married to a younger lady who is still considered able to wok and provide family income.

I think a male member quoted that he was living in Thailand and had his pension almost zeroed when he advised Centrelink that he was married in the above circumstance.

If you are living in Thailand and receive the single rate of aged pension presently $888.30 p/f after 6 weeks reduces to about $835.p/f.  What ever you do don't get married or your pension will be reduced by about $210p/f to about $610p/f as you will only receive half he married rate ofabout $1320p/f  ($610 p/f).  The Thai wife will get nothing.  Of course there is nothing wrong in having a Thai lady carer live in with you.  Just don't  get married.  If you do it it will cost you about Aus $220 p/f.

[halloween]

1 minute ago, David Walden said:

If you are living in Thailand and receive the single rate of aged pension presently $888.30 p/f after 6 weeks reduces to about $835.p/f.  What ever you do don't get married or your pension will be reduced by about $210p/f to about $610p/f as you will only receive half he married rate ofabout $1320p/f  ($610 p/f).  The Thai wife will get nothing.  Of course there is nothing wrong in having a Thai lady carer live in with you.  Just don't  get married.  If you do it it will cost you about Aus $220 p/f.

David, you are replying to posts from NINE years ago. While what you are posting is correct, I doubt those posters will be interested.

[David Walden]

Just now, halloween said:

David, you are replying to posts from NINE years ago. While what you are posting is correct, I doubt those posters will be interested.

Yes I just noticed that but my information is current.  It's unbelievable how much fear and miss information is on this site about  Aussie aged pensions overseas which is completely wrong.  But I thank you, I made a few replies and then noticed there are another 97 pages 

                                                        

[moojar]

6 hours ago, rhodie said:

Have a look at TransferWise. Better rate than OFX and no 500 Baht removed as it is a borderless transfer. And takes less than 48 hours.

Just had a quick look - better rate than OFX but there's a fee ($62) whereas OFX does not charge a fee for transactions over $10k.  I think the better rate more than pays for the fee though. 

 

I'll have a look in a couple of days when I know I'm looking at the current rates and not some conservative weekend rate or something.  Will report back, useful info even if it's not strictly OAP related.  

 

Good info rhodie, cheers. 

[halloween]

Talked to Mum toaday, OAP has increased $5.70, supplement $0.40

 

https://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/government/pension/age-pension-increases--20-september-2017

[David Walden]

9 hours ago, halloween said:

Talked to Mum toaday, OAP has increased $5.70, supplement $0.40

 

https://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/government/pension/age-pension-increases--20-september-2017

Centrlink payment adjustments are linked to the CPI and are reviewed each March and September.  

 

For anyone interested I have a Citibank Debit Card and Credit card,  never use the credit card.   In 10 years it has cost me nothing, you can use at any ATM anywhere in the world free of fees.  If your ATM docket shows a fee which it will likely Bt220 in Thailand this is credited back to you account.  You can transfer large amount of money anywhere free of charge by Citibank to any bank world wide.  In Aus you must have a TFN to get one you no longer have to advise them of each country change of address it works without advising Citibank now.   Here is a link    https://www.citibank.com.au/aus/banking/everyday_banking/citibank_plus.htm

Edited September 18, 2017 by David Walden

[4MyEgo]

On 17/09/2017 at 10:57 AM, opalred said:

i know one fellow been planning retirement for years

has a condo with a safe /brings out $9500 regular trips 

is legal as allowed under $10000 each trip

You can bring as much as you like, you just have to declare it on the form, are you taking more than $10,000 out of the country, Yes Mr Immigration Office, they might ask you the reason, I have taken $30,000 out at once, and my reason was that I can get a better rate in Thailand on my exchange in Thailand than in Australia or by transferring it, building a house, where did the money come from, wages and savings, here are my bank statements, with deposits and withdrawals, Mr Immigration Office, no that's fine thanks, carry on.

 

They just want to make sure its not drug money or money being laundered overseas. 

[4MyEgo]

On 17/09/2017 at 11:31 AM, giddyup said:

I didn't. I just transfer the money online from the ANZ to my Thai bank whenever I need to. Not doing anything shonky or illegal.

Do they charge you a fee, and is the rate competitive, the reason I ask is I use BahtSmart, they have an ANZ account in Australia that you deposit your funds into from your Australian account and then they transfer it to Thailand and at a good rate, usually with 24 hours.

[4MyEgo]

On 17/09/2017 at 12:33 PM, Gregster said:

If he has say, 5 years to go before applying for OAP and he travels to Thailand say, 4 times a year bringing 10k cash each trip. Potentially he could have 200k in cash hidden in his Thai safe that Centrelink can't trace.

When Centrelink check his bank statements at the time of applying for the OAP, the guy simply says he spent each $10k during that particular trip.

I wonder if doing the above allow someone to pass the OAP assets test whilst having an untraceable, extra 200k in his Thai safe?



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One thing to remember, if your money goes missing in a Thai bank account, they won't reimburse you, so I have read, whereas funds in Australia are guaranteed by the government in Australia for 3 years, and up to $250,000.

 

A safe in Thailand would probably be a better option ?

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

One thing to remember, if your money goes missing in a Thai bank account, they won't reimburse you, so I have read,

Not sure what you have read but look at this page that shows it was wrong. http://www.dpa.or.th/ewt_news.php?nid=320&filename=index___EN

[4MyEgo]

15 hours ago, David Walden said:

If you are living in Thailand and receive the single rate of aged pension presently $888.30 p/f after 6 weeks reduces to about $835.p/f.  What ever you do don't get married or your pension will be reduced by about $210p/f to about $610p/f as you will only receive half he married rate ofabout $1320p/f  ($610 p/f).  The Thai wife will get nothing.  Of course there is nothing wrong in having a Thai lady carer live in with you.  Just don't  get married.  If you do it it will cost you about Aus $220 p/f.

There is a way around this is your willing, prior to reaching the retirement age, say about 3 years, if you have money over the threshold, reduce it by taking a big slice of it out and putting it into your wife's account in Thailand, you could say you decided to build a house for your wife's mother, your kid/s or whatever, then 2 years prior to the OAP age, you can book a single ticket to Australia, rent a place, and apply for a divorce.

 

Wife can also come back to the country week or so later and move in with you, although CentreLink could find out she is in the country, well that's news to me, must have followed me back, but haven't seen or heard from her, besides she is an Aussie citizen and as long as she doesn't ask me for more money, then I am fine Mr CentreLink.

 

Now 2 years later Mr CentreLink gives me my OAP and I am off to Thailand to start living again as I was once before, the wife can join me the day after when she jets out of Australia.

 

Well that's the plan and if it works in 12 years time and I remember, I will update the post.

 

As my wife is 21 years my junior, it would be a long time coming before she gets the pension, and I will be long gone by then, that or be a miserable old coot 555

[4MyEgo]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not sure what you have read but look at this page that shows it was wrong. http://www.dpa.or.th/ewt_news.php?nid=320&filename=index___EN

Well done Joe

 

I feel much better now and can focus in the future, i.e. no need to stash the cash in the safe, if this is still around by the time I apply for the OAP.