Australian Aged Pension

[keithpa]

4 hours ago, ELVIS123456 said:

What you said lacks one key ingrediant ........... a point.

Are you saying I have something wrong?  Wouldnt be the first time - but if you think so, then say what it is - then you will have made a point.  Otherwise, I can not see the point of your reply. 

 

"Something wrong", not at all. Just like the other , now, 151 pages of new information that is  available on the Oz Govt. web site.

[halloween]

9 hours ago, keithpa said:

"Something wrong", not at all. Just like the other , now, 151 pages of new information that is  available on the Oz Govt. web site.

Reading any or all is not compulsory.

[4MyEgo]

On 3/16/2018 at 4:03 PM, scorecard said:

 

If your meaning sell the house in Thailand, there is more to understand.

 

How often do you see a Thai property agent focused on the total Thai market (Thai sellers / Thai buyers)?

 

The answer is never.

 

Why, because:

 

- Thais generally don't see any status value in buying second-hand anything, especially houses (reality is that if a Thai person buys a second hand house it's obvious to all 'it's second-hand', and therefore has low status building value).

 

- Many Thai folks would be concerned about what past history is attached to a second-hand house; did someone die in the house, are there ghosts in the house?

 

- Many Thais believe when you acquire a piece of land you would never sell it. 

 

And more...

 

Your spot on there.

 

When we built our house, first thing came to my mind was that I would never get my money back from it, i.e. either I die here, or the wife gets it if we ever divorced.

 

Your castle is only your castle as long as the above, and when I built our castle, I went in with eyes wide open, referring to my number one rule, i.e. only invest as much as your prepared to lose, e.g. no more than 10% of your worth, and not before you have been with your partner for at least 5 years and see no changes in her personality, setting those unsuspecting bait traps along the way, and if the mouse takes the cheese, you know what to do.

 

Our castle has neighbours either side, with one side being a rice field with a street frontage of about 100 metres before you get to the neighbours house, she is an old lady with the daughter who is going to inherit it living in Bangkok (it has our name on it, I mean the Mrs's name on it), as she wants to one day return and rip down the old house and build her new house on it, (that will be a done deal as we will be contributing to her building costs through the sale of the land to us, no doubt), easy money for her, and on the other side is another old woman, who's house is about 20 metres away from us, although the son who lives in Bangkok says he will one day return to build his house on his mums land, I say, the offer I make him when the time comes will see one of my kids building their house on it next to ours in the future, with the son of the old lady either building somewhere else in the village or remaining in Bangkok.

 

The plan is to have our kids on either side of us as our neighbours, well....someones got to take out the garbage 

 

 

[keithpa]

3 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Your spot on there.

 

When we built our house, first thing came to my mind was that I would never get my money back from it, i.e. either I die here, or the wife gets it if we ever divorced.

 

Your castle is only your castle as long as the above, and when I built our castle, I went in with eyes wide open, referring to my number one rule, i.e. only invest as much as your prepared to lose, e.g. no more than 10% of your worth, and not before you have been with your partner for at least 5 years and see no changes in her personality, setting those unsuspecting bait traps along the way, and if the mouse takes the cheese, you know what to do.

 

Our castle has neighbours either side, with one side being a rice field with a street frontage of about 100 metres before you get to the neighbours house, she is an old lady with the daughter who is going to inherit it living in Bangkok (it has our name on it, I mean the Mrs's name on it), as she wants to one day return and rip down the old house and build her new house on it, (that will be a done deal as we will be contributing to her building costs through the sale of the land to us, no doubt), easy money for her, and on the other side is another old woman, who's house is about 20 metres away from us, although the son who lives in Bangkok says he will one day return to build his house on his mums land, I say, the offer I make him when the time comes will see one of my kids building their house on it next to ours in the future, with the son of the old lady either building somewhere else in the village or remaining in Bangkok.

 

The plan is to have our kids on either side of us as our neighbours, well....someones got to take out the garbage 

 

 

OAP  ???

[4MyEgo]

On 3/21/2018 at 8:16 PM, ELVIS123456 said:

The two years 'rule' is NOT a rule or a policy.

 

I see many people posting about this issue as if it is a set rule/policy, and I feel I need to point out that IMO it is not.

 

Yes - if you return to Oz and get the OAP (immediately), you will need to stay living in Oz for at least 2 years, before portability will be approved.  But it is not a 'sentence' that once served, means you are going to get portability automatically approved.  It is a MINIMUM period of time before CLink can approve portability.  But if they believe that you never intended to remain in Australia, and that you only came back so you could get the OAP and return overseas, then they can delay approval - and they can refuse to approve portability indefinitely.  But to do this they must have 'evidence' of your intent (property in your name, wife and kids in Thailand, etc etc).

 

Anyone considering this course of action should look at the possibility that you may have to wait more than 2 years - if you were to do it in say the next few years.  If you are looking at this as a course of action in 5-10+ years, then keep in mind that it is likely that the 2 years 'minimum qualification' will be extended to 3 or 4 or 5 years AND that they will get harder and harder on approvals.   

 

A far easier approach (IMO) is to move back to Aus before you qualify for the OAP (at least 2 years), and either get a job (not easy) or go on to Newstart (very easy once over 60) and then the 'transition' from work/dole to OAP will be very easy, AND approval for portability will be much easier.  But the same applies - you must tell everyone that you have come back to work and intend living in Aust permanently.  Some times things just dont work out - even though you gave it your best shot - nudge nudge wink wink  

 

 

 

 

On 3/21/2018 at 11:27 PM, keithpa said:

149 pages of info on the Oz age pension. The Oz Government regulations on the pension arnt that long. Give it a rest or read what the regulations say.

No need to read all 149 pages s Simple1 has narrowed it down @ #2209 copy ad pasted below:

 

If people overseas ask about getting a pension on return to Australia, great care should be taken to give them complete and accurate information about the residence provisions and their subsequent portability entitlements. A claim for pension can be lodged by a former resident ONLY IF, on the evidence available, there is a clear intention to remain permanently in Australia. A person who intends to return to Australia for a 24 month period only would not be an 'Australian resident' as per SSAct subsection 7(2).

 

On a personal note I returned to Oz after living in Thailand for a while prior to Age Pension age and claimed unemployment benefit for a few months, it was easy to then roll over to Age Pension. Establishing residency for Centrelink to claim Newstart is straight forward e.g....

 

Oz Rental Agreement

Oz Driving License

Oz Bank Account

Family in Oz

Edited March 24, 2018 by 4MyEgo

[ELVIS123456]

7 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

If people overseas ask about getting a pension on return to Australia, great care should be taken to give them complete and accurate information about the residence provisions and their subsequent portability entitlements. A claim for pension can be lodged by a former resident ONLY IF, on the evidence available, there is a clear intention to remain permanently in Australia. A person who intends to return to Australia for a 24 month period only would not be an 'Australian resident' as per SSAct subsection 7(2).

Excellent quote from the DSS ACT - add this one below about the previous points and the situation is very clear :

 

A person arriving in or returning to Australia (1.1.A.320) must satisfy the Act's definition of Australian resident in order to lodge a proper claim for a pension. A former resident who returns to Australia and is granted a pension (Age, DSP, WP, WidB, BVA), or who transferred under SS(Admin)Act section 12 to Age CANNOT take that pension outside Australia if they leave again within 24 months after having again become an Australian resident. The purpose of this legislation is to discourage people from coming to Australia just to get an Australian pension to take back overseas.

 

It is important to inform a recipient that there is NO discretionary power allowing portability of pensions during the first 24 months of resumed Australian residency. However, payment may be suspended for the period of the short overseas absence and does not have to be reclaimed on return to Australia. 

 

If you intend to return to Australia once you have reached age qualification for the OAP,  you must be returning with the intention to stay permanently in Australia, or they can refuse to grant the OAP. 

 

Likewise, at anytime within the 24 months period, if CLink believes that you always intended to immediately return overseas, they can cancel the OAP and/or they can delay approval for portability. 

 

It is very likely that in the future years the 2 year period of time for portability qualification will be increased (3,4,5?) and that the approval requirements for portability for residents/citizens returning will be toughened up significantly.

 

Edited March 24, 2018 by ELVIS123456

[giddyup]

3 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

 

If you intend to return to Australia once you have reached age qualification for the OAP,  you must be returning with the intention to stay permanently in Australia, or they can refuse to grant the OAP. 

 

Likewise, at anytime within the 24 months period, if CLink believes that you always intended to immediately return overseas, they can cancel the OAP and/or they can delay approval for portability. 

 

It is very likely that in the future years the 2 year period of time for portability qualification will be increased (3,4,5?) and that the approval requirements for portability for residents/citizens returning will be toughened up significantly.

 

Never understood why there should be any conditions placed on where you decide to live once you qualify for the OAP  Surely it must be cheaper to allow pensioners to live overseas and fund their own health care, minus the other rebates that are paid in Australia like rates, pharmaceutical benefits, public transport, utilities etc..

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, ELVIS123456 said:

Excellent quote from the DSS ACT - add this one below about the previous points and the situation is very clear :

 

A person arriving in or returning to Australia (1.1.A.320) must satisfy the Act's definition of Australian resident in order to lodge a proper claim for a pension. A former resident who returns to Australia and is granted a pension (Age, DSP, WP, WidB, BVA), or who transferred under SS(Admin)Act section 12 to Age CANNOT take that pension outside Australia if they leave again within 24 months after having again become an Australian resident. The purpose of this legislation is to discourage people from coming to Australia just to get an Australian pension to take back overseas.

 

It is important to inform a recipient that there is NO discretionary power allowing portability of pensions during the first 24 months of resumed Australian residency. However, payment may be suspended for the period of the short overseas absence and does not have to be reclaimed on return to Australia. 

 

If you intend to return to Australia once you have reached age qualification for the OAP,  you must be returning with the intention to stay permanently in Australia, or they can refuse to grant the OAP. 

 

Likewise, at anytime within the 24 months period, if CLink believes that you always intended to immediately return overseas, they can cancel the OAP and/or they can delay approval for portability. 

 

It is very likely that in the future years the 2 year period of time for portability qualification will be increased (3,4,5?) and that the approval requirements for portability for residents/citizens returning will be toughened up significantly.

 

You know ELVIS123456 they could sort this out so easily if they had the balls, i.e. if they could agree and pass legislation that those who are CITIZENS, and have worked and paid taxes for 35 years should receive the OAP and it be made portable immediately, and naturally those under 35 years get it at the pro-rata rate, e.g. 25 years gets 71.42% of the OAP, 15 years gets 42.85% of the pension, all provided that they meet the assets test and are CITIZENS, and naturally portability goes to the 25 & 15 year workers as well, providing they are CITIZENS.

 

Those who have done the time and paid the taxes should get portability without having to remain in Australia or return to Australia to receive the OAP or part thereof, if they fit the above criteria, simple really. 

 

Now having said that, anyone that hasn't worked or paid taxes for a minimum 15 years, gets a ZERO OAP, it shouldn't be the tax payers problem to have to contribute to anyone who hasn't worked when they get to the pension age, i.e. granting them the OAP or part thereof based on the years they have lived in the county, however it is the tax payer who is being screwed over for having worked and paid taxes, sure the OAP is part of a welfare support system, but where is the justice for the tax payer, when someone who doesn't contribute to the tax system gets a free ride.

 

Any you wonder why they stick it to the Xpats, the tax paying Xpats that is, should be a given, seriously, the Xpat that has worked, paid his/her taxes and should get portability without prejudice because Australia has failed them, i.e. if the cost of living wasn't so frigging high, I am sure a lot of Xpats would more than likely be living back in the old country and holidaying in Thailand, but not me, I am more content here, in the land of, "up to you", but I am self retired, no pension here, too young, but trying to work around the assets test....lol.....don't shoot me, I have paid 35 years of taxes, and a little sweet at the end of the day, God willing I get to that age, i.e. whatever age it will be, 67-70 pick a number any number, its your lucky day ?

 

But please don't say that Xapts might have to wait 3, 4, or 5 years as a future portability, probability, you do understand there are a lot of high rises here in Thailand, and sometimes people do jump, well at least that's what we are told 

Edited March 24, 2018 by 4MyEgo

[ELVIS123456]

21 hours ago, giddyup said:

Never understood why there should be any conditions placed on where you decide to live once you qualify for the OAP  Surely it must be cheaper to allow pensioners to live overseas and fund their own health care, minus the other rebates that are paid in Australia like rates, pharmaceutical benefits, public transport, utilities etc..

Agree - and all that does apply IF you are living permanently in Australia (and have for at least 2 years) at the time you qualify and apply for the OAP.

 

Australia first changed the rules some years back, when it become apparent that a lot of people from Greece and Italy (and some in UK), who had previously lived for many years in Australia, had applied for and got the OAP with no intention of ever living in Australia again.  So they changed it so that to get the OAP you had to be a resident of Australia at the time you applied, and many came back to apply for the OAP and once granted they immediately had gone back to their 'old country'.  So they changed it again and made it the current rules: if you are a resident and come back and claim the OAP, you must be a resident with the intention of staying permanently, and you cannot take the OAP overseas until after minimum of 24 months as a permanent resident of Aust. 

 

I agree that people should not be able to get the OAP from anywhere in the world just because they meet the minimum working/living period in Aust (10 years). Perhaps it would be reasonable to introduce some form of concession for those who have met the maximum working/living period (35 years), so that they can apply for the OAP from anywhere in the world - like the citizens of USA and many other countries.  Perhaps it might have more chance of being accepted if for this exemption the minimum period of living in Aust (after age 16) was 44 years - which means that person would be a min of 60 years old before they left for overseas. A lot of people find themselves unable to keep/find a job once they hit 55-60, so allowing them to start a new life in a cheaper country, and still reward them for contributing for so long to Australia by getting the OAP overseas once qualified.  Seems reasonable to me - it wouldnt do it for everyone (me included) but at least those who are in that situation in the future could get treated fairly.

 

[ELVIS123456]

21 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

You know ELVIS123456 they could sort this out so easily if they had the balls, i.e. if they could agree and pass legislation that those who are CITIZENS, and have worked and paid taxes for 35 years should receive the OAP and it be made portable immediately, and naturally those under 35 years get it at the pro-rata rate, e.g. 25 years gets 71.42% of the OAP, 15 years gets 42.85% of the pension, all provided that they meet the assets test and are CITIZENS, and naturally portability goes to the 25 & 15 year workers as well, providing they are CITIZENS.

 

Those who have done the time and paid the taxes should get portability without having to remain in Australia or return to Australia to receive the OAP or part thereof, if they fit the above criteria, simple really. 

 

Now having said that, anyone that hasn't worked or paid taxes for a minimum 15 years, gets a ZERO OAP, it shouldn't be the tax payers problem to have to contribute to anyone who hasn't worked when they get to the pension age, i.e. granting them the OAP or part thereof based on the years they have lived in the county, however it is the tax payer who is being screwed over for having worked and paid taxes, sure the OAP is part of a welfare support system, but where is the justice for the tax payer, when someone who doesn't contribute to the tax system gets a free ride.

 

Any you wonder why they stick it to the Xpats, the tax paying Xpats that is, should be a given, seriously, the Xpat that has worked, paid his/her taxes and should get portability without prejudice because Australia has failed them, i.e. if the cost of living wasn't so frigging high, I am sure a lot of Xpats would more than likely be living back in the old country and holidaying in Thailand, but not me, I am more content here, in the land of, "up to you", but I am self retired, no pension here, too young, but trying to work around the assets test....lol.....don't shoot me, I have paid 35 years of taxes, and a little sweet at the end of the day, God willing I get to that age, i.e. whatever age it will be, 67-70 pick a number any number, its your lucky day ?

 

But please don't say that Xapts might have to wait 3, 4, or 5 years as a future portability, probability, you do understand there are a lot of high rises here in Thailand, and sometimes people do jump, well at least that's what we are told 

I hear you 4myego, and your point about citizens is valid - but it wont float.

 

The reason relates to why a legal immigrant who arrives in Aust cannot claim 'benefits' (Dole, Housing, Medical, etc etc) for at least 2 years, but a refugee (or illegal immigrant claiming refuge status) immediately gets those benefits. It is because Aust is a signatory to the UN Refuge Protection Laws, and that means Aust legally must provide welfare benefits to all real refugees and to all illegals who claim to be a refugee.  Brilliant lot that UN bunch - like most left-wing nutters they dont understand the need to have strong rules, in order to protect the majority against false claims by those that would abuse the rules. They see strong and harsh rules as a being fascist and against human rights.  I wonder if they are looking at Europe lately and considering they might have been wrong? 

 

Anyway, because of Aust being a signatory to all sorts of UN 'human rights' laws, the Govt cannot discriminate against Residents by providing something to Citizens only - such as OAP portability.  The vast majority of Aust Citizens would agree with that rule, but it would be in breach of UN laws.

 

Personally I reckon Aust should reject many of the UN Laws and withdraw, and make their own laws that their own People agree with (the majority). But there are many flow-on negatives from doing that so Aust never will on its own. The best hope is USA and Japan withdrawing its funds from the UN, and then maybe it will go back to what is was created for - a forum for countries to air their issues and hopefully avoid another world war. It has devolved into a monolithic monstrosity that forces countries to accept its policies and laws that were created by left-wing autocrats that have never been elected or selected by any of the world's People.  They are about as effective as the Pope in their attempts to avert wars, but unlike the Vatican the UN costs a large fortune to maintain. 

 

Did you know that the annual UN Budget ($5.7 Billion) is larger than that of 126 countries? Such as Libya, Congo, El Salvador, Paraguay, Nepal, Cameroon, Botswana, Bahrain, Malta, Georgia, Honduras, Jamaica etc etc etc.  Did you know that there are 29 million people in Nepal? 24 million in Cameroon? 9 million in Honduras? The UN is a colossal waste of money, and like all bureaucracies (cancers) its only real focus is on growing - taking everything it can get from its host in order to keep growing - and defending itself against all attack by pretending to be a part of and good to the host. 

 

Rant over    Thanks for reading/listening. 

 

[sceadugenga]

Troll post and response removed.

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, ELVIS123456 said:

I hear you 4myego, and your point about citizens is valid - but it wont float.

 

The reason relates to why a legal immigrant who arrives in Aust cannot claim 'benefits' (Dole, Housing, Medical, etc etc) for at least 2 years, but a refugee (or illegal immigrant claiming refuge status) immediately gets those benefits. It is because Aust is a signatory to the UN Refuge Protection Laws, and that means Aust legally must provide welfare benefits to all real refugees and to all illegals who claim to be a refugee.  Brilliant lot that UN bunch - like most left-wing nutters they dont understand the need to have strong rules, in order to protect the majority against false claims by those that would abuse the rules. They see strong and harsh rules as a being fascist and against human rights.  I wonder if they are looking at Europe lately and considering they might have been wrong? 

 

Anyway, because of Aust being a signatory to all sorts of UN 'human rights' laws, the Govt cannot discriminate against Residents by providing something to Citizens only - such as OAP portability.  The vast majority of Aust Citizens would agree with that rule, but it would be in breach of UN laws.

 

Personally I reckon Aust should reject many of the UN Laws and withdraw, and make their own laws that their own People agree with (the majority). But there are many flow-on negatives from doing that so Aust never will on its own. The best hope is USA and Japan withdrawing its funds from the UN, and then maybe it will go back to what is was created for - a forum for countries to air their issues and hopefully avoid another world war. It has devolved into a monolithic monstrosity that forces countries to accept its policies and laws that were created by left-wing autocrats that have never been elected or selected by any of the world's People.  They are about as effective as the Pope in their attempts to avert wars, but unlike the Vatican the UN costs a large fortune to maintain. 

 

Did you know that the annual UN Budget ($5.7 Billion) is larger than that of 126 countries? Such as Libya, Congo, El Salvador, Paraguay, Nepal, Cameroon, Botswana, Bahrain, Malta, Georgia, Honduras, Jamaica etc etc etc.  Did you know that there are 29 million people in Nepal? 24 million in Cameroon? 9 million in Honduras? The UN is a colossal waste of money, and like all bureaucracies (cancers) its only real focus is on growing - taking everything it can get from its host in order to keep growing - and defending itself against all attack by pretending to be a part of and good to the host. 

 

Rant over    Thanks for reading/listening. 

 

Heavy duty, I see your all over it like a rash mate.

 

Thanks for the info, too much for me too handle, better go and grab another cold one 

[4MyEgo]

On 3/24/2018 at 9:58 PM, giddyup said:

Never understood why there should be any conditions placed on where you decide to live once you qualify for the OAP  Surely it must be cheaper to allow pensioners to live overseas and fund their own health care, minus the other rebates that are paid in Australia like rates, pharmaceutical benefits, public transport, utilities etc..

More than likely a numbers game, take me for example, to return to Australia and receive 9,600 baht a week to pay more than that in rent wouldn't make it feasible for me, that and knowing that I would lose staying here for two years, makes me want to vomit, the price of beer alone Vs here is a worry in its self....lol

[4MyEgo]

5 hours ago, ELVIS123456 said:

Agree - and all that does apply IF you are living permanently in Australia (and have for at least 2 years) at the time you qualify and apply for the OAP.

 

Australia first changed the rules some years back, when it become apparent that a lot of people from Greece and Italy (and some in UK), who had previously lived for many years in Australia, had applied for and got the OAP with no intention of ever living in Australia again.  So they changed it so that to get the OAP you had to be a resident of Australia at the time you applied, and many came back to apply for the OAP and once granted they immediately had gone back to their 'old country'.  So they changed it again and made it the current rules: if you are a resident and come back and claim the OAP, you must be a resident with the intention of staying permanently, and you cannot take the OAP overseas until after minimum of 24 months as a permanent resident of Aust. 

 

I agree that people should not be able to get the OAP from anywhere in the world just because they meet the minimum working/living period in Aust (10 years). Perhaps it would be reasonable to introduce some form of concession for those who have met the maximum working/living period (35 years), so that they can apply for the OAP from anywhere in the world - like the citizens of USA and many other countries.  Perhaps it might have more chance of being accepted if for this exemption the minimum period of living in Aust (after age 16) was 44 years - which means that person would be a min of 60 years old before they left for overseas. A lot of people find themselves unable to keep/find a job once they hit 55-60, so allowing them to start a new life in a cheaper country, and still reward them for contributing for so long to Australia by getting the OAP overseas once qualified.  Seems reasonable to me - it wouldnt do it for everyone (me included) but at least those who are in that situation in the future could get treated fairly.

 

Getting a little ahead of yourself their my friend, lets drop that back to 55 and agree to disagree 555

[4MyEgo]

On 3/22/2018 at 6:20 AM, Gregster said:

Plus if you have anything left when you go into a retirement home, it will cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars, while for a person on the full pension, it is free.

I don't know about that, it cost my mum $325,000 to go into a retirement home, and she was on the pension, sure she owned a modest two bedroom unit in crappy suburb in Sydney's south-west.

[scorecard]

On 22/3/2561 at 5:42 PM, giddyup said:

I think the only way to get answers to your questions is to ring Centrelink on their international number and have a talk with someone. Normally to qualify you would have to either have lived in Australia for 2 years prior to becoming eligible or return at 65 (or whatever age you qualify) and spend 2 years in Oz to meet the conditions to make the pension portable. I don't know if Centrelink makes exceptions to that rule in special circumstances, but why have you waited until turning 73 to do anything about it?

 

...but why have you waited until turning 73 to do anything about it?

 

Good question of course. I did call the predecessor of Centrelink years ago (in those days my health not too bad) and was told very clearly that there was no possible way that Australians living abroad would ever get the OAP. 

 

For years I accepted that as the answer and it's only recently I noticed a highlighted comment on a TV thread, I clicked and went to the full post and found several messages which mentioned two things:

 

- Being in Australia at the time of lodging the OAP application form, and

 

- Portability.

 

So in the next few days I will call Hobart.

 

Thanks.

 

 

[halloween]

12 hours ago, ELVIS123456 said:

Agree - and all that does apply IF you are living permanently in Australia (and have for at least 2 years) at the time you qualify and apply for the OAP.

 

Australia first changed the rules some years back, when it become apparent that a lot of people from Greece and Italy (and some in UK), who had previously lived for many years in Australia, had applied for and got the OAP with no intention of ever living in Australia again.  So they changed it so that to get the OAP you had to be a resident of Australia at the time you applied, and many came back to apply for the OAP and once granted they immediately had gone back to their 'old country'.  So they changed it again and made it the current rules: if you are a resident and come back and claim the OAP, you must be a resident with the intention of staying permanently, and you cannot take the OAP overseas until after minimum of 24 months as a permanent resident of Aust. 

 

I agree that people should not be able to get the OAP from anywhere in the world just because they meet the minimum working/living period in Aust (10 years). Perhaps it would be reasonable to introduce some form of concession for those who have met the maximum working/living period (35 years), so that they can apply for the OAP from anywhere in the world - like the citizens of USA and many other countries.  Perhaps it might have more chance of being accepted if for this exemption the minimum period of living in Aust (after age 16) was 44 years - which means that person would be a min of 60 years old before they left for overseas. A lot of people find themselves unable to keep/find a job once they hit 55-60, so allowing them to start a new life in a cheaper country, and still reward them for contributing for so long to Australia by getting the OAP overseas once qualified.  Seems reasonable to me - it wouldnt do it for everyone (me included) but at least those who are in that situation in the future could get treated fairly.

 

Why should somebody who has lived in Oz, or any other country, for the minimum 10 years be denied a part pension? should somebody who has worked in different countries, paying taxes and adding to the economy, be entitled to nothing, or be entitled to part pensions from those countries where he/she qualifies?

[4MyEgo]

9 hours ago, halloween said:

Why should somebody who has lived in Oz, or any other country, for the minimum 10 years be denied a part pension? should somebody who has worked in different countries, paying taxes and adding to the economy, be entitled to nothing, or be entitled to part pensions from those countries where he/she qualifies?

I think he was just referring to the current (10 years), although the part pension for 10 years is hardly something to aspire too IMO

[ELVIS123456]

14 hours ago, halloween said:

Why should somebody who has lived in Oz, or any other country, for the minimum 10 years be denied a part pension? should somebody who has worked in different countries, paying taxes and adding to the economy, be entitled to nothing, or be entitled to part pensions from those countries where he/she qualifies?

You can only get the pension in Aust IF you qualify by having lived/worked in Aust for at least 10 years before that, and are living in Australia when you apply. I agree with the rule that states you cannot apply from overseas and stay overseas, when you only meet the minimum criterion (10 years) . My view is that someone who has lived/worked for 35+ years should be allowed to apply while living overseas and stay living overseas, as recognition of their long period of living/working in Australia. 

[BEVUP]

30 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

You can only get the pension in Aust IF you qualify by having lived/worked in Aust for at least 10 years before that, and are living in Australia when you apply. I agree with the rule that states you cannot apply from overseas and stay overseas, when you only meet the minimum criterion (10 years) . My view is that someone who has lived/worked for 35+ years should be allowed to apply while living overseas and stay living overseas, as recognition of their long period of living/working in Australia. 

If I'm right just like England, who the Auss Gov top up theirs (if applicable ) once they leave Auss

[Nemises]

Need the OAP because you don’t/won’t have enough Super?

If so, you’re not alone.

Check out last night’s edition of 4Corners to understand why so many of today’s workers will be turning to the OAP in order to survive.

 

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/super-risk/9589040

 

[Nemises]

Below is an article about AUS OAP portability from this month's (April 2018) edition of International Living Australia.

 

ILA is a "subscriber only" magazine so I was unable to post a link to this report. The only way I could share the report with you was to copy and paste it, which I have done in it's entirety.

 

I hope it assists TVF members who will be applying for portability in the future. 

 

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What You Need to Know About Taking Your Age Pension Overseas

If the Age Pension is an important part of your overseas retirement plan…you’re probably confused. And you’re not alone. I’ve researched this question of whether you can take your Age Pension overseas—and if so, how—for a couple of years now. And I’ve discovered that you can’t get all the facts in one place. Sure, there’s a lot of information online. Try googling “Can I take my Australian Age Pension overseas?” But the problem is that not only are many websites out of date…they’re also incomplete. Even Centrelink’s own website only tells part of the story. Adding to our confusion is that the rules change. In January 2017 we saw a change in the thresholds for the assets test. And they threatened to change the rules for overseas portability of the Age Pension too (fortunately, this change didn’t pass legislation). No doubt further changes are in the wind. And as more baby boomers apply for the Age Pension, it’s inevitable that eligibility will tighten up. So, let’s clear the confusion by putting all the facts together in one place. I don’t believe you’ll find this anywhere else… Can you take your Age Pension overseas? Yes you can. But before you pack up and head off, there are things you must know. Because there’s a smart way to do it…and a not-so-smart way. If you’re currently receiving the Australian Age Pension, taking that pension with you on your overseas escape is pretty simple. I’ll talk more about that further on. If you’re not yet at pension age… but you don’t want to wait to experience life overseas…it’s a little trickier. It’s doable, but you need to understand the whole picture… and that’s where I will start…

Moving Overseas Before You Reach Pension Eligibility Age

If you live overseas prior to pension eligibility age—either parttime or full-time—your Australian residency may change. If you plan to escape overseas again, this is very important. Note: We are not talking about residency for taxation purposes here. This is different. I’m talking about residency for Age Pension eligibility: The Age Pension is only for Australian residents therefore you have must prove that you are an Australian resident and that you intend to maintain that status. First, you must return to Australia to apply for the Age Pension, unless you are living in a country that Australia has a Social Security Agreement with (more on this later). When you rock up to your local Centrelink office to apply for the pension, a decision will be made: Are you still an Australian resident  or are you a former resident? If you are deemed an Australian resident, there are no restrictions—you can go back overseas as soon as you’ve received your first pension payment and continue to receive your pension indefinitely. If, however, you are deemed a former resident, you will be forced to stay in Australia for two years before moving overseas again (more on this later).

Now, the frustrating thing is that you won’t find information on this anywhere online; not even on the Department of Human Services website. That’s because there are no black and white rules— the decision is completely arbitrary and is at the discretion of the Centrelink officer handling your application. Even the Centrelink website is very unclear on this—it simply states that if you’ve been outside Australia (no timeframe given), you have to wait two years after successfully applying for the pension before you head overseas again. And that’s not entirely true. If that Centrelink officer has any doubt whatsoever that your absence from Australia was more than just a holiday, they’ll refer your application to Centrelink’s International Services Board. Your application is now in the “complex” basket. It’s very important to understand how Centrelink makes their decision about your residency. Here goes… The decision is based on how long you are away overseas for, the reason for your absence and also how strong your ties to Australia are considered to be by Centrelink. Let me show you how discretionary this decision is. I spoke to three different officers at Centrelink’s International Services Board. This is what they said when I asked the question “If I live overseas before pension age, then return to Australia to apply for the pension, will I be considered an Australian resident or a former resident?”. The first officer told me that if I’ve only been away three to five years, then it’s likely I will be categorised as an Australian resident because, in his opinion, that isn’t a very long time to be overseas. The second officer said that, in her opinion, three to five years was a really long time and there is no way I’d be categorised as an Australian resident if I’d been gone that long. She indicated that I’d need to have been away for less than a year, maybe even no more than a few months, to be considered an Australian resident rather than a former resident. If I’d been away for an “extended” period of time, then I’d be categorised a former resident, no question. I asked what “extended” means. She told me that there is no definition—it’s at the discretion of the Centrelink Officer you get. The third officer said quite firmly that if I am away for more than two years, I’ll be deemed a former resident. Anything under that, I can easily argue that I was away on holidays and never intended to stay permanently overseas. You get the point. But can you influence their decision? Yes, you can if you understand what they take into consideration. When assessing your residency, Centrelink look at how long you’ve been away and what you were doing while overseas. Most importantly, they’re looking at where your ties are strongest—in Australia or in the country you were living in overseas? They’ll look at things like your real estate, family connections, other assets, bank accounts. So, if you’re living in your home in Australia when you get back, you have close links with relatives who live in Australia, you have financial ties and other assets in Australia—those things will all help your case. They’re not all essential, but they will help. You need to provide a story that persuades Centrelink you are still a current Australian resident. And that your intention is to stay in Australia. Perhaps your story might explain the reason for your overseas absence: living it up while you’re young enough to enjoy it, doing the backpacker thing you never did when you were younger…whatever. But just don’t say that you’re road-testing destinations for an overseas move down the track or anything of that nature. And do not say that you are planning to head overseas again once you’ve got the pension. With this in mind, think before you do anything that will impact your story. Selling your Australian home, buying a home overseas, marrying overseas. I’m not saying don’t do these things; just understand that you’ll need to be able to weave them into a story that supports your case. It mightn’t hurt to be a little careful with any social media posts. Perhaps keep an Australian bank account open, keep lodging tax returns and stay on the electoral roll. So what happens if, despite all your evidence and arguments, Centrelink decides that you are a former resident? There is an appeals process. And I was told by the first officer with Centrelink International Services that nine times out of 10 the applicant wins this argument. But the second officer wouldn’t say what your chances would be. At the end of the day, the worst thing that can happen is that your appeal fails and the former resident tag sticks. You can still apply for the Age Pension but, after being granted the pension you will have to stay in Australia for two years before moving overseas again. You can leave temporarily, for example for a holiday, but you won’t receive the pension while you are away. But, the good news is that your absence overseas is included in the two-year period. But beware: If you’re away for more than a reasonable time (and there is no official definition for “reasonable”), Centrelink may decide that you are once more a former resident and may cancel your pension, meaning that you will have to re-apply for the pension all over again, and start the two-year period all over again. There’s an exception to this rule however: During the two year period, if you travel to a country that has a Social Security Agreement with Australia, you will still get paid your pension and you can stay in that country as long as you wish.

Social Security Agreements

Australia has a Social Security Agreement with 31 countries, including New Zealand, Spain, Portugal, Malta, Italy, Ireland and the U.S.A. These agreements are designed to share the cost of social security between two countries in situations where someone has a residency claim in both countries. For example, a New Zealander who moves to Australia for work and then moves back to New Zealand in their later years, may be eligible to claim a part-pension from both New Zealand and Australia. In order to be eligible for the Australian Age Pension, you must first also be claiming a part-pension or full pension from the foreign country you are living in. This requirement helps make sure that the Australian government does not pay Age Pensions to people who already have enough income and assets in another country to pay for their retirement. If you live in a country with a Social Security Agreement with Australia, you may be able to apply for the pension without returning to Australia. If you’ve lived (or live) in one of these 31 countries, Centrelink’s International Services Board can help with Age Pension applications to both countries. You won’t get more than the Australian Age Pension, but the Australian government may top up the amount you get in that other country so that your total pension is equivalent to your eligible Australian pension amount. Contact Centrelink International Services on 131 673 (from overseas, there are international numbers). You can download the instruction pdf for the relevant country here.

Why Not Try a Roving Retirement?

If you are not currently on the Age Pension, but don’t want to wait to experience life overseas, how do you avoid being categorised as a former resident when you return to apply for the Age Pension? There are no guarantees, but…a roving retirement might be a great solution.  Remember, however, that if you’re away continuously for an “extended” period, it’s likely you will be challenged by Centrelink over your residency. So, maybe come back to Australia from time to time and don’t try to apply for the pension the day after you return. Spend some time back in Australia first. And make it clear to Centrelink that you were overseas having a holiday…or two. You’ve read lots of stories in International Living Australia about other Aussies doing this. It’s a great opportunity to try out the expat life and see if you like it. You’ll also have the opportunity to try out the places on your shortlist…or put your shortlist together. Have some fun without the pressure of committing. Who knows? You might just find your happy place. 

If You’re Already Receiving the Age Pension

 If you’re already receiving the Age Pension, you can move overseas and continue receiving your pension into either your Australian bank account or a nominated account overseas. For the first 26 weeks overseas, everyone continues to receive the same amount they received in Australia. After 26 weeks overseas, most people will continue to receive their usual pension amount indefinitely. But some people will receive less. It all depends on the Australian Working Life Residency, or AWLR. This rule causes a lot of confusion—partly because the government threatened to reduce the 26-week period to just six weeks back in January 2017. Fortunately, that measure was scrapped and the 26-week period stands…for now. Here’s how the AWLR works…

The Australian Working Life Residency (AWLR)

The AWLR measures the number of years you’ve lived in Australia between the ages of 16 and 65. You do not have to have worked any or all of this time; simply living in Australia is enough. The benchmark is an AWLR score of 35 years. This means that if you have 35 years or more living in Australia between the ages of 16 and 65, you are entitled to the full amount of pension as determined by the income and asset tests. If you have lived in Australia for less than 35 years between the ages of 16 and 65, your AWLR score is lower. This means that, once you’ve been overseas for more than 26 weeks, you will get a lower Age Pension amount. For example, if your AWLR is 20 years, then you’ll be entitled to 20/35ths of your means-tested Age Pension once you’ve been overseas for more than 26 weeks. On the other hand, if your AWLR is 35 years or more, then after 26 weeks overseas, you will continue to receive your full means-tested Age Pension amount indefinitely. Note that the AWLR only affects those age pensioners not living in Australia. If you spend time outside Australia, for example to work in another country, you may continue to accrue AWLR during your absence, provided that you are considered to be an Australian resident during the absence and you have not yet reached Age Pension age. In addition, if you spend time in a country that has an International Social Security Agreement with Australia, then the years spent in that country can be included alongside your years spent in Australia to calculate your AWLR. If you are unsure about your AWLR, phone Centrelink International Services on 131 673 and they will help you to calculate it. Also visit here. Note that the 35-year benchmark was introduced on 1 July 2014. Prior to that date, it was only 25 years. Age pensioners who were already living overseas on 1 July 2014 were grandfathered by the old AWLR rule of 25 years. This means that people living overseas on 1 July 2014 who are currently receiving the Age Pension are able to maintain the 25-year base for calculating their Age Pension amount. However, if they return to Australia for longer than 26 weeks they will be re-assessed under the new rule, i.e. the 35-year AWLR.

Your Pension Supplement

The Pension Supplement is designed to help age pensioners cover the cost of living in Australia. It is a combined payment of Pharmaceutical Allowance, Utilities Allowance, GST Supplement and Telephone Allowance. If you get the Age Pension, you automatically get the Supplement. Currently, it is approximately $80 per fortnight for a couple. If you are moving overseas temporarily or going on a holiday overseas, you will continue to receive the Supplement for six weeks. After six weeks overseas, your Supplement will stop altogether. But it will be reinstated automatically when you return. Note that if you are leaving Australia for more than six weeks, you should tell Centrelink (you can do this via your MyGov online account). If you are moving overseas permanently, you should advise Centrelink before you go. As soon as you go through Immigration, your Pension Supplement will stop. If you return to Australia, you need to contact Centrelink to have your Supplement reinstated. Your Age Pension, less the Pension Supplement, is commonly referred to as the “outside Australia rate”.

The Seniors Card

Generally, a Seniors Card is available to Australians aged 60 and over who are not working full-time. The cards are issued free by each state and territory government and enable holders to receive a wide range of discounts on public and commercial activities. This can be especially useful for those who have retired, or those who are working fewer hours but do not yet qualify for the Age Pension. Eligibility criteria and concessions vary by state/territory. Your Seniors Card will be cancelled after six weeks overseas. But it can be reinstated upon return to Australia by contacting Centrelink. The same applies to your Pensioner Concession Card and your Health Care Card. Tip: Keep these cards with you when you travel overseas—I’ve been told by one savvy traveller that, even though their Seniors Card had expired in Australia, they got seniors’ discounts overseas.

The Disability Support Pension (DSP)

Whilst the Disability Support Pension is totally separate from the Age Pension, I’ve included it here because International Living gets regular questions from readers about it. The Disability Support Pension provides financial help if you have a permanent physical, intellectual or psychiatric condition that stops you from working. To be eligible you must be between 16 years and Age Pension age (65-67 depending on your year of birth). You must be an Australian resident and it is means-tested, meaning that the amount you receive is dependent on income and assets tests. The question of whether you can take your DSP overseas is complex. The Disability Support Pension is only portable in some circumstances. Every case is different and is assessed based on the individual’s circumstances. If you are planning to move overseas permanently, Centrelink will assess your DSP conditions to determine whether your pension is portable and, if so, whether the amount of pension you receive will change when you move overseas. If you are planning to leave Australia temporarily, you can still receive some payment. Currently, you can travel overseas for up to four weeks in a 12-month period without it affecting your DSP. After four weeks, your DSP payment will be either suspended (if overseas for less than 16 weeks) or cancelled (if overseas for more than 16 weeks). If suspended, when you return to Australia you’ll need to contact Centrelink to have it reinstated. If cancelled, you’ll have to reapply (and there’s no guarantee you’ll get the same amount you were previously receiving). If you travel to a country which has an International Security Agreement with Australia, you may be able to get your payment under that Agreement. Contact Centrelink’s International Services Board on 131 673 for information relevant to your personal circumstances.

Change is a Given

 Change is guaranteed. The government can—and does—change the rules from time to time. And as more baby boomers apply for the Age Pension, it’s inevitable that eligibility will tighten up. You’ve probably heard that the Liberal government wants to increase the Age Pension age to 70 years. Currently, the maximum pension eligibility age is 67. This would mean that anyone born on or after 1 January 1966 would not be eligible for the Age Pension until they turn 70. If you were born before that date, your pension age will increase proportionally (for example, for myself I’m currently eligible for the Age Pension at 67, but if this change came in I’d have to wait until 68.5 years). But the Libs have gone quiet on this plan due to electoral backlash and because they’ve not received any support for it from the ALP opposition or the minority parties. But…unless the Liberals withdraw this policy from their election platform, they still plan to increase the Age Pension age to 70 if they can secure a clear majority in the parliament in a future election (the next federal election is due in 2019). Remember though, that an increase in Age Pension eligibility age will not affect you if you already receive the pension.

What Happens If Things Change After You Move Overseas?

Once you’ve successfully moved overseas, and taken your Age Pension with you, what happens if your circumstances change or if the government changes the rules? If your income and/or assets change while you are overseas, you must tell Centrelink and your pension may be affected. This is no different to if you were in Australia and receiving the Age Pension. If the government changes any of the rules relating to the Age Pension, these changes will apply to you overseas. For example, if there is a CPI increase in the amount of the Age Pension, you will also receive this increase. Or if the assets test changes, let’s say, and the threshold changes, your pension will be affected, same as if you were in Australia. However, there is an exception here. If there is a change to the Age Pension rules that disadvantages you, as an overseas pension recipient (for example if the portability rules change), you will not be affected while you remain overseas. You will be “grandfathered” under the rule that existed at the time you went overseas. But, if you return to Australia, the new rules will apply to you if you stay for 26 weeks or more. This decision cannot be appealed and is irreversible. To illustrate, on 1 July 2014, the AWLR changed from 25 years to the current 35 years. People living overseas on 1 July 2014 who were currently receiving the Age Pension retained the 25-year base for calculating their pension amount. However, if they return to Australia for longer than 26 weeks they will be re-assessed under the new 35-year base should they leave Australia again. Centrelink will advise you by mail of any change that occurs. It is therefore very important to keep your contact details up to date with Centrelink. They will only send mail to a physical address (not email), so make sure they have your correct overseas address so that you don’t miss important communications. It’s a good idea to opt for electronic messaging on your MyGov account—that way you’ll be advised that a letter has been sent to you (you can’t read the letter on MyGov, but at least you know to expect it).

Stay Informed

The onus is on you to make sure you understand the rules as they apply to your own situation and to keep up to date with any changes that occur. A good way to do this is to read the Australian Pension News on the Department of Human Services website every April and October. Age Pension rates are indexed twice yearly and Centrelink assesses pension rates and thresholds four times each year. If you’re in the early stages of planning your overseas escape, Centrelink’s Financial Information Services (FIS) is a great starting point to help you to work out your Age Pension eligibility, based on your current assets and income. This is not your local Centrelink office, but a specialised and separate department. You can phone them on 132 300 (and, unlike Centrelink’s general number, you won’t be left hanging on hold for ages). You can also make a face-to-face appointment if your questions aren’t satisfied over the phone. Note that FIS will not answer questions concerning your entitlements overseas—they’ll refer you to their International Services Board for those. If you’re more than five years away from Age Pension eligibility, now is the time to start rethinking your assets and income (if you need to). Any restructuring you do within five years of pension eligibility will be scrutinised. It is highly recommended that you seek financial advice from a qualified financial advisor. For specific information relating to receiving the Age Pension overseas, contact the Centrelink International Services Board on 131 673. This is a phone service only as the Board is located in Tasmania. They will help you to work out your AWLR and can answer any other questions you have regarding your pension entitlements overseas.

Closing Thoughts

The worst thing you can do is adopt a “she’ll be right mate” attitude. Understand your current situation inside and out, and work out what you need to do if you intend taking the Age Pension overseas—whether that’s next year or in 10 years’ time. And be nice to anyone you deal with at Centrelink…really nice. They hold quite a bit of discretionary power in their fingertips. They’re human too, but a lot of clients don’t treat them that way.

Bonus Tip

You can apply for the Age Pension online (although you must be physically residing in Australia or in a Social Security Agreement country). Just make sure that your MyGov account is linked to Centrelink. You might find it useful to familiarise yourself with the required forms—the questions tell you what Centrelink are interested in. Even if not at pension age yet, these questions might help you to plan ahead.  

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ENDS//

[halloween]

37 minutes ago, Gregster said:

After six weeks overseas, your Supplement will stop altogether.

Incorrect, it will drop to the Basic Supplement amount, $14.40/fn IIRC though due to change with CPI increase(??)

[nev]

Thanks for posting that Gregster, I did not know I could apply for a senior's card at 60, I am heading back tomorrow for a few months work and turn 60 in July so thanks for the heads up in the link I will go and inquire.

[maccastime]

Great reading Gregster. Well done some very good advice there. I lived in Los for 6 years returned to Aus October 26, 2016. I am now 67.applied for oap when I returned waited 4 months while they considered whether to grant me the oap. They agreed in feb 2017 paid me back money but asked me many times did I intend going overseas. They told me I could not travel os for 2 years. So no problem there. Paid Centrelink a visit recently asking when can I go for a months holiday, I asked did my 2 years start from my arrival date back to Australia? Lady did not know so she asked another staff member who confirmed yes I can travel after oct 26 this year. Not as some people advised me that my time to travel would start from the day they granted my oap.so wheels up late October 

[BEVUP]

So Gregster 

Are you saying that if one was an Auss resident up to the age of of pension & they get it, they can automatically go overseas for as long as they like & not having to answer to Centerlink 

[halloween]

OAP CPI increase applied as of 20/3/18. Base Pension increased by $12.20/fn to $826.20, Pension supplement increased by $1 - unclear whether that increase was to total supplement or basic supplement.

[giddyup]

49 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

So Gregster 

Are you saying that if one was an Auss resident up to the age of of pension & they get it, they can automatically go overseas for as long as they like & not having to answer to Centerlink 

That's what I did. I got my OAP at 65 then moved to Thailand about a year later. Been here 8 years and received my pension payment from C'link regularly.

[Nemises]

Thanks for posting that Gregster, I did not know I could apply for a senior's card at 60, I am heading back tomorrow for a few months work and turn 60 in July so thanks for the heads up in the link I will go and inquire.

Apply online for the Seniors Card mate. Just punch in your Medicare number, tick the box saying you don’t work more than 20 hours’ paid work across a 12 month period and they post it to you. Too easy!

[Artisi]

1 hour ago, giddyup said:

That's what I did. I got my OAP at 65 then moved to Thailand about a year later. Been here 8 years and received my pension payment from C'link regularly.

Same for me, but I had been out of Aus. in Thailand for a few years but fought the non-resident status and won my case (written up ealier in this long running thread) departed about 3 years after gaining the pension and have been back in Thailand since 2010 without any problems.