Wife And Child Denied In Bangkok

[bunta71]

Late at night post, tuesday the 22nd,2008 as you can well read. Just got back from Bangkok to home in Chiang Mai. Went to Bangkok in order to add my wife,Philippina ,and my daughter,American as am I; to my newly acquired retirement visa. Fall under Sunbelts english translation sec. 7.19. Under direction of two of Sunbelts attorneys I hired to help with this first time, we went last week to Mae Sai/Tachilek last week to get what is called a VOA (visa on arrival) for both the wife and daughter to comply with the 21 day rule which the 21days elapse on this Friday the 25th. Not pleased but jumped through the hoop and got what was recommended/required as per Sunbelt's attorneys. Friday went back to their office and they claimed after checking with the local Chiang Mai immigration "Captain" that we would have to make a trip to Bangkok to convert the VOA's onto my retirement visa and that there was NO WAY it could be done in Chiang Mai. Really not happy now, but filled out the paperwork,got all the required docs and photo copies,and pictures glued on while sitting under the direct supervision of the Attorneys in Sunbelts office. Realizing I'm not in Kansas anymore I fueled the car up and hightailed it to Bangkok Immigration ,room 303 where I was told within 30 seconds that what I was requesting was not possible and that I should drive back to Chiang Mai, get two pieces of paper from my daughters school,drive back to Bangkok,go to the Ministry of Education for another form and then go to Vientiane where they could fall under section7.8 and 7.10 which doesn't work for me because I do not have 500,000B in the bank as I qualified for my retirement visa with the 65,000 B monthly income.When asking with a big smile about the route I was there complying with with everything required,The gentleman at the middle desk and the lady beside him with the 4 or 5 Stars on her shoulders would not discuss it and kept saying I needed to go to Laos to do the education thing. This after three or four times,again with a big wai,all the respect in the world and the never ending smile on my face. Eventually thanked the gentleman for his help and even shook his hand and my five years old also thanked him in Thai and shook his hand as I did. So what gives..Lopburi? George? anyone? are there more things I haven't covered here? Be happy to fill in anything I left out,but thinking I've covered it all. Will go have a chat with the boys at Sunbelt in the morning but for now am beat from the driving.

[thaihome]

I thought that a visa exempt entry, what you are referring to as VOA, could not be converted to 1 year extension. You had to have entered on a visa, be it a tourist or Non-Imm of some sort.

TH

[bunta71]

A visa on arrival or VOA as explained to me is not the same as a 30 day permission to stay which is not a visa.At least that is what was explained to me at Sunbelt and specifically why they sent us last week to Burma

Edited January 23, 2008 by bunta71

[Lite Beer]

A Visa Exempt entry can be converted into a Non Imm O Visa.

[bunta71]

A visa on arrival or VOA as explained to me is not the same as a 30 day permission to stay which is not a visa. Are you saying a visa exempt entry is the same as the 30 day permission to stay? Looking in the passports it looks the same as our original 30 day permission to stay as we got on initial arrival in September. It does say visa class and then something written

[bunta71]

Where would that be converted..in thailand or outside the country?

[Lite Beer]

As far as I know,you have a years extension based on retirement. Your Wife should be able to get a yearly extension based on being your dependant. So I would have thought that the 500,000 would not come into play.

Your Daughter should be able to get a year extension based on her education. Reading 7.8 and 7.10 it does say that you have to get documentation from the school amongst other things.

All a bit complex. Will have to wait for Lopburi to come along.

[Lite Beer]

Where would that be converted..in thailand or outside the country?

Immigration in Thailand

[thaihome]

A Visa Exempt entry can be converted into a Non Imm O Visa.

You could well be correct now, but in years past we have had to send many people to Singapore to get Non-Imm B's in order to get them 1 year extensions to stay based on WP. This is when our HR dept at HQ had failed to get them visas before sending them to Bangkok. It is no longer an issues as we have trained our HR to get the visas now and it has been a couple of years since the last occurrence.

TH

[Maestro]

Attached is the rule 7.19 the OP is talking about.

If I am reading this correctly, not only the wife but also the children are entitled to annual extensions as dependents of the retiree, who has an extension under rule 7.21, yet the immigration office wants them to get an extension for the reason of study, ie under rule 7.7 or 7.8 of Police Order 606/2549. I wonder why.

--

Maestro

606_2549_7_19.pdf

[lopburi3]

There could be two things in play here - the retirement dependent extension of stay is not allowed by Thai law and in September last year this was enforced - but only for about one week and then it went into "pending" status. A new director was just appointed so there could have been a change this week. If that has happened it will effect a large number of people in the future. If this is not the case believe below is most likely reason.

If read right you are here on a retirement extension of stay currently. You want your wife and children to be allowed to obtain matching extensions of stay.

As far as I know your wife and children must enter the country with a non immigrant visa in order for this to be approved. Your wife and children would apply at a Consulate using your passport copy with the retirement extension of stay and marriage/birth certificates to qualify for a non immigrant O visa. After they enter Thailand on the non immigrant O visa you could all then visit immigration and convert there stay to match your extension of stay. They may also want them to have less than 30 days remaining before conversion.

Do not believe the dependent of retired qualifies for the immigration issued visa/change.

The education/sponsor would work if wife had 500k in a bank account

[stickyb]

It certainly used to be possible to convert a 30 arrival stamp (which is not a VOA) into a retirement extension. See this thread here. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=84738

I know the thread is a little old, but i also know of people going that route late last year in Jomtien.

I also know of a married couple where the husband went that route (using proof of income) and then the wife got a 1 year extension as his dependant without the need for any further financial dealings to be shown ( a bit like 2 for the price of one) although she obviosly had to pay the normal standard processing fees

[Maestro]

It certainly used to be possible to convert a 30 arrival stamp (which is not a VOA) into a retirement extension.

You appear to be confused about this thread.

In this thread, the retired man already has his extension of stay for retirement. His wife and children, who had entered Thailand on a visa-exempt stamp, applied for extensions of stay as dependants of the retired man and these applications were turned down.

--

Maestro

[bunta71]

Finally went directly to immigration in Chiang Mai today. Went in the side door and back where the bosses are and explained about my confusion and asked for their infinite wisdom.There is a lesson to be learned here. Sometimes going straight to the horses mouth can save a lot of grief and fees for incompetent attorneys, not to mention travel expenses and your time. If the aforementioned attorneys had the SLIGHTEST idea about their advice they would have sent us to Vientiane for non-immigrant "O" 90 day visas which can be extended here in Chiang Mai and all problems solved. Would have saved us a trip to Mae Sai and another fruitless trip to Bangkok. One more requirement that will be needed is a confirmation letter from the American consulate attesting to the validity of my marriage and also the legitimacy of my daughters birth. No big deal but have not seen nor heard of that particular requirement along the way. Another note:

I've a lot of faith in Lopburi's judgment as he is always concise and accurate in his posts. Again it seems as though you were right on mark with your assessment and I thank you sir. Doesn't appear for everyone's sake and sanity that the new BIG BOSS has decided to enact last Septembers' folly. Just some bad advice on one hand and not getting the full story on the other from immigration the first couple times. To everyone who responded a big thankyou....Jack

[thaihome]

Maybe to head off another thread on "American consulate attesting to the validity of my marriage and also the legitimacy of my daughters birth", what that actually is a document (the consulate has the form) that you fill out and sign stating they are real documents and the consulate notarizes your signature. This is accepted by the Thai authorities as “certification" which in the consulate vernacular is something else entirely, which you do not want to get involved in.

TH

[Lite Beer]

Finally went directly to immigration in Chiang Mai today. Went in the side door and back where the bosses are and explained about my confusion and asked for their infinite wisdom.There is a lesson to be learned here. Sometimes going straight to the horses mouth can save a lot of grief and fees for incompetent attorneys, not to mention travel expenses and your time. If the aforementioned attorneys had the SLIGHTEST idea about their advice they would have sent us to Vientiane for non-immigrant "O" 90 day visas which can be extended here in Chiang Mai and all problems solved. Would have saved us a trip to Mae Sai and another fruitless trip to Bangkok. One more requirement that will be needed is a confirmation letter from the American consulate attesting to the validity of my marriage and also the legitimacy of my daughters birth. No big deal but have not seen nor heard of that particular requirement along the way. Another note:

I've a lot of faith in Lopburi's judgment as he is always concise and accurate in his posts. Again it seems as though you were right on mark with your assessment and I thank you sir. Doesn't appear for everyone's sake and sanity that the new BIG BOSS has decided to enact last Septembers' folly. Just some bad advice on one hand and not getting the full story on the other from immigration the first couple times. To everyone who responded a big thankyou....Jack

Well done Jack.

I take it they are being extended as your dependants.

[bunta71]

Yes they eventually will be first the trip to Vientianne for the 90 day non-immigrant"O" then during the last thirty days of that will be converted here in CM. OK thaihome sounds easy and I'll avoid the certification reference pitfall

Edited January 23, 2008 by bunta71

[thaibkk]

anybody has any idea how many farangs there are in Thailand?

having to run for visa or WP ...

there is something like Sunbelt ... to assist

but what we really would need is a lobby, pressure group, to speak for us all farang in this country

for exemple: why when you apply for a WP , they do not approve directly the stay in the kingdom also, why have some many different paperwork , needing to run out & back in the country and asking for re-entry permits ... while its all so obvious just to make it hard for nothing ?

if some kind of farang "union" / lobby /pressure group would be formed/founded, I would gladly pay my monthly/yearly fee for this organisation to try to make our stay more easy

we are here either to work or to try to enjoy our lives, aren't we ?

no Thai in my homecountry or any other foreigner has to go trough so many paperwork + leaving the country even they have a WP, ... they would sue the governement, to company, whoever would "nag" those kind of people ....

[stevemiddie]

no Thai in my homecountry or any other foreigner has to go trough so many paperwork + leaving the country even they have a WP, ... they would sue the governement, to company, whoever would "nag" those kind of people ....

Your home country is where?

Your post is without merit. The Uk, Australia, now have requirements to understand the English language before settling in those countries. Does Thailand ask that of you? I think we are lucky............there again, you bring your western ideals to an Asian country.

And why do you have to leave the country if you have a work permit huh? Work permit = extension of stay. You only have to report every 90 days. Not leave the country. DUH !

[bina]

thaibkk; really? we were refused a temp. residency permit for my husband IN MY COUNTRY cause he cant speak hebrew or english enough to communicate with the visa people. they very nicely stamped his passport with a 'permission to work for a year anywhere he wants' stamp to be renewed with discretion by immigration.... never take anything for granted EVER ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.

Edited January 24, 2008 by bina