Insect In Wine Glass: So What? Or Major Incident?

[Jingjok]

This is what happened to me today in this extraordinary, and often infuriating, country.

I’m having a celebratory lunch in a major Phuket hotel, with a Thai friend.

We order a bottle of Champagne. So what?

Two glasses are poured by the waitress: huge great glassfuls, which I hate, since it gets warm.

I take a few sips.

A passing (senior) member of staff notices that a small insect has landed in my glass. She grabs for the glass, I protest, saying that I don’t care, I’ll fish it out with a spoon.

Waitress will not listen, takes full glass away to behind bar. I call her to bring it back, but am ignored.

OK, I don’t really mind, no doubt they will remove said insect and return my glass.

One minute later the glass is returned, filled not with their very expensive Champagne, but with cheap house wine.

I naturally complain, and ask for my Champagne back please, which I didn’t want taken away anyway. Can’t do this, because the whole glass was poured down the drain.

When it is refilled, I later found the Champagne came from my bottle, not a house bottle, since they don’t do Champagne by the glass.

I am silently infuriated, but let it pass on the advice of my guest, who said that an insect in a glass looks bad for the restaurant. Presumably it’s a ‘face’ thing.

Since they insist on pouring such huge glassfuls, there’s only about five in a bottle so that’s a substantial quantity of my drink tipped away, and against my express wishes.

My questions are:

1. Is an inebriated insect such a big deal in Thailand?

2. What would others have said or done should this have happen to you?

3. If there any restaurant professionals on here, what is the accepted response to seeing an insect in a guest’s wine glass? Taken to the extreme, what would you do if a bloody great bluebottle goes for a swim in a glass of vintage Pétrus? Apart from congratulating the insect on its superior taste.

[seonai]

I would have been really annoyed at this too

[Momo8]

Customer: 'Waiter there's a fly/blubottle in my glass'

Waiter: 'Be quiet,or everybody will want one'

It would annoy anybody but not much you can do except complain to the management or they should discount/give you the champers for free.

Put your hand over the glass if you want them to stop pouring.That aside insist on pouring it yourself.I've seen a scam in BKK where a guy put a cockroach in his last glass of vino just so he wouldn't have to pay the bill.Got a free bottle of Moet.

[Jingjok]

Customer: 'Waiter there's a fly/blubottle in my glass'

Waiter: 'Be quiet,or everybody will want one'

LOL! Very original I'm sure

It would annoy anybody but not much you can do except complain to the management or they should discount/give you the champers for free.

Yes, I know, but I’m known there, and sometimes even quite like the staff, so didn’t want to make a big deal about it.

Put your hand over the glass if you want them to stop pouring.That aside insist on pouring it yourself.

Of course. But today alcohol was banned due to some election nonsense, so the pouring occurred out of sight behind the bar, where all bottles were concealed. And water glasses were used, hence the excessive quantity. I should have made that clearer!

I've seen a scam in BKK where a guy put a cockroach in his last glass of vino just so he wouldn't have to pay the bill. Got a free bottle of Moet.

Not nice. That’s a scum-bag thing to do.

[Momo8]

Well given the fact that liquor is banned there at this time (didn't know) I presume then that nobody loses here.Next time you will get a freebie for sure.Can't do too much complaining if it's banned to serve in the first place.

Cockroach thing was disguisting as I was sitting next to that table.Was looking in my glass that's for sure.

[stevenl]

Nothing to do about it, TIT.

From their point of view: they try to help you out by serving alcohol, even though it is prohibited. So of course they can not use a champagne glass, that would be too obvious. Then they get rid of an insect for you, try to help you by giving you a free glass of wine, which you do not appreciate.

You don't complain but let it pass, and want to do something about it later?

Maybe you'll get a refund or something, but you won't be welcome in that hotel anymore.

[Jingthing]

I would have made a major scene, sorry. I would have demanded a partial refund for the bottle and I wouldn't have taken no for an answer. They want to save face, I would give them some major face with their other customers until they made good on it. They took away what you paid for without your consent. Outrageous. To hel_l with TIT. At those prices, I would have demanded TAT!

Moving to Thailand does not mean you have to turn into a grade A patsy! Stand up for your consumer rights.

[barky]

I would have made a major scene, sorry. I would have demanded a partial refund for the bottle and I wouldn't have taken no for an answer. They want to save face, I would give them some major face with their other customers until they made good on it. They took away what you paid for without your consent. Outrageous. To hel_l with TIT. At those prices, I would have demanded TAT!

Moving to Thailand does not mean you have to turn into a grade A patsy! Stand up for your consumer rights.

Generally speaking Thais have no idea about real customer service and they absolutely have no concept of "the customer is always right". Particulally as you are an alien they don't really care what you think. Usually "sorry" is a word that Thais don't use, especially on aliens. Remember you are not a Thai therefore you are not afforded the courtesies a native would get. Yes they could say kor thort and most people would see a genuine apology, but you are very unlikely to get that out of them. If you get angry then they feel no need to say sorry at all. They know there are plenty more where you came from. They believe if you don't like it go somewhere else. Of course there are some exceptions to what I'm saying for example in five star hotels where the staff have been trained by westeners, or other western owned businesses. In these establishments you might get some real customer satisfaction. I could fill this page with examples of the un-caring attitude of Thai staff generally and to westeners particularly. You are not going to ever win these little battles though. They will not change. In the main you have to put up with it and shut up. Sorry.

[Jingjok]

… So of course they can not use a champagne glass, that would be too obvious.

Yes, but they didn’t need to fill up the glass like it was a pint of beer!

…Then they get rid of an insect for you…

Against my directly stated wishes. Short of immediate physical intervention, I was unable to prevent the removal of my glass.

You don't complain but let it pass, and want to do something about it later?

Maybe you'll get a refund or something, but you won't be welcome in that hotel anymore.

I did not say I wanted to do anything about it now. In fact quite the opposite. That would be very small-minded now the moment has passed.

I asked what others would have done in my position, and what professional restauranteurs' opinions are. I’m intrigued, that’s all.

[Jingjok]

I would have made a major scene, sorry…

Moving to Thailand does not mean you have to turn into a grade A patsy! Stand up for your consumer rights.

Yes I know. Believe me, I am very good at arguing ‘rights’ and complex legal positions (I haven’t paid a parking or speeding ticket in UK for years). It’s a hobby of mine to fight authority.

But in Thailand there may often be subtleties of which us Westerners are unaware.

For example, if insects in beverages are considered highly disgusting, rather than trivial, it would not look good for me to be willing to drink an insect-infested drink. Kii-niaw maak or what?!

…Generally speaking Thais have no idea about real customer service and they absolutely have no concept of "the customer is always right"…

…They believe if you don't like it go somewhere else…

…Of course there are some exceptions to what I'm saying for example in five star hotels where the staff have been trained by westerners…

This was just such an establishment.

Otherwise I agree with you. But it’s because this is often such a pleasant place that making a fuss over one glass of drink would have felt vaguely silly.

Although that said, I got into conversation with a tourist at the buffet counter. He was checking out that afternoon, four nights early, because of what he described as the low competence of staff.

It’s a shame, these big hotels which try to be world-class, just can’t find enough of the right staff with the right attitude. Ask any F&B manager, you’ll probably hear the same story.

[sbk]

Actually, I am of the understanding that the election ban is over. That alcohol sales are allowed today

[lazeeboy]

I would have made a major scene, sorry…

Moving to Thailand does not mean you have to turn into a grade A patsy! Stand up for your consumer rights.

Yes I know. Believe me, I am very good at arguing 'rights' and complex legal positions (I haven't paid a parking or speeding ticket in UK for years). It's a hobby of mine to fight authority.

But in Thailand there may often be subtleties of which us Westerners are unaware.

For example, if insects in beverages are considered highly disgusting, rather than trivial, it would not look good for me to be willing to drink an insect-infested drink. Kii-niaw maak or what?!

…Generally speaking Thais have no idea about real customer service and they absolutely have no concept of "the customer is always right"…

…They believe if you don't like it go somewhere else…

…Of course there are some exceptions to what I'm saying for example in five star hotels where the staff have been trained by westerners…

This was just such an establishment.

Otherwise I agree with you. But it's because this is often such a pleasant place that making a fuss over one glass of drink would have felt vaguely silly.

Although that said, I got into conversation with a tourist at the buffet counter. He was checking out that afternoon, four nights early, because of what he described as the low competence of staff.

It's a shame, these big hotels which try to be world-class, just can't find enough of the right staff with the right attitude. Ask any F&B manager, you'll probably hear the same story.

they get paid 4-5000b a month ,if they had a brain they wouldnt be working there

[Jingthing]

I really wouldn't care what they think. If they took away something expensive and then expect me to pay the full price, I would hold my ground, and teach them a thing or two about what customers expect. I agree, no use in raising your voice or losing your cool. Just don't budge until they agree to do the fair thing. I can see that it would complicate things if you are with a Thai who is embarrassed by this tactic, so granted, you have to weigh each individual situation. Also, if they think the bug is disgusting, it was their bug, the idea of compensation for lost goods still applies. I find asking for the manager is often effective with this kind of conflict (with the exception of course of Simon's Fish and Chips in Jomtien Beach). The best time in this case to do this is right after the crazy waiter took away your glass even though you protested, rather than later.

[barky]

I really wouldn't care what they think. If they took away something expensive and then expect me to pay the full price, I would hold my ground, and teach them a thing or two about what customers expect. I agree, no use in raising your voice or losing your cool. Just don't budge until they agree to do the fair thing. I can see that it would complicate things if you are with a Thai who is embarrassed by this tactic, so granted, you have to weigh each individual situation. Also, if they think the bug is disgusting, it was their bug, the idea of compensation for lost goods still applies. I find asking for the manager is often effective with this kind of conflict (with the exception of course of Simon's Fish and Chips in Jomtien Beach). The best time in this case to do this is right after the crazy waiter took away your glass even though you protested, rather than later.

Look at the end of the day is lack of/poor management. The training is done on-the-job, so they see the way all the other staff do/don't do thier jobs and simply follow suit. The section supervisors learnt the same way, so you complain to who exactly, a supervisor who also doesen't see the problem. Go to the top. The problem is ALWAYS at the top. Monkey see, monkey do. Oh and before anyone starts, I am not calling Thais monkeys, for the poorly educated, it's an age-old expression.

[JohnBKKK]

if something like this happens in a fife star Hotel, simply remain calm and ask for the Maitre D' - if she looks at you as if the lights are on but no one is home ask for manager if that doesn't get a appropiate resonse try "BOSS" - the Maitre D" will normally resolve the problem as in your case surely provide a new bottle of the bubbly or poor a new Glass from a bottle, the rest of which he and others will enjoy themselves later- if you don't get an acceptable resolution from him ask for the F&B Director ....... Hotels have a problem getting qualified staff especially during the season and a waitres from isan is simply not up to international service standards - however the law prohibits farangs working as waiters so the Maitre D" has a lot of fun and pleasure dealing with such problems,

John

[Jingjok]

they get paid 4-5000b a month, if they had a brain they wouldn't be working there

No. As I said the staff member is senior. Takes home at least THB 30,000.

I really wouldn't care what they think. If they took away something expensive and then expect me to pay the full price, I would hold my ground, and teach them a thing or two about what customers expect. I agree, no use in raising your voice or losing your cool. Just don't budge until they agree to do the fair thing. I can see that it would complicate things if you are with a Thai who is embarrassed by this tactic, so granted, you have to weigh each individual situation. Also, if they think the bug is disgusting, it was their bug, the idea of compensation for lost goods still applies. I find asking for the manager is often effective with this kind of conflict (with the exception of course of Simon's Fish and Chips in Jomtien Beach). The best time in this case to do this is right after the crazy waiter took away your glass even though you protested, rather than later.

Thanks for your intelligent assessment. The problem is that I have spoken to the manager on several occasions, and am casually friendly with both him and the owner of the place. So to make a big deal about a single glass of drink would have felt a bit small-time. No less irritating though.

[LivinLOS]

OT to the problem but similar..

Has anyone ever tried to return a bottle of spoilt wine ?? I cant even imagine how that conversation would go..

I mean back in Europe, you buy a bottle, and its soured, no questions asked its changed, never any doubt.. Here where you can spend a few 1000 baht on an average wine easily and its been poorly stored and ruined, your expected to just bin it and eat the cost.

I had a 2k bottle of Bordeaux (second one so it wasnt a bad type, just a bad bottle) from Deli that I wouldnt have marinated a steak with.. But the concept that something that was sold was unfit for consumption.. Well that doesnt even enter into it.

[Naam]

What would others have said or done should this have happen to you?

i would have lodged a serious complaint with the management if cheated from ingesting free protein. insect in my glass = MY insect. MY insect = I eat!

[Jingthing]

What happened there was THEFT. They sold you some goods at a very high markup and then STOLE back the goods. Nice work if you can get it.

[ade100]

It’s important to understand some background. Thailand uses very outmoded management techniques so that hotel and restaurant staff are taught to be very subservient and even very scared of their bosses. Pleasing the customer is very low down on their list of priorities. (I know this as my GF is a manager in a 5 star hotel).

I have had to learn, the way to treat waiters in Thailand is to play the role of their boss, not the customer.

As with Champagne I prefer to pour white wine myself. I have had to physically put my hand over my wine glass, and while being very polite and joking, tell them I will be pouring the wine myself. I have also on occasion politely told them to stop hovering around our table as we are having a private conversation.

You have to be very assertive otherwise they don’t take you seriously. Remember they are used to being shouted at by their bosses.

[ade100]

So what I would have done in this situation is this. As the waitress made a lunge for my glass I would have used a dainty yet effective block I learnt in Wing Chung. This would send her sprawling but with no physical damage (as I would refrain from using the follow up kick or punch). A shoulder barge would probably do just as well.

You may think it strange that you have to engage in unarmed combat with waitresses but remember, even though you are sipping Champagne in a posh hotel, this is not the civilised world. This is the Third World.

[onethailand]

Thanks for your intelligent assessment. The problem is that I have spoken to the manager on several occasions, and am casually friendly with both him and the owner of the place. So to make a big deal about a single glass of drink would have felt a bit small-time. No less irritating though.

If this is the case - then you should be kind enough to tell the manager or owner so that this staff member does not repeat this mistake - even if you don't want to claim what you are owed. Otherwise it will happen again sooner or later and will ultimately cost the owner a lot more in future business.

[cmsally]

Place you hand over your glass, tell staff not to interfere should be end of story.

If they don't get message raise your hand in a stop motion and "no" should get the message across without too much fuss.

You will find if you are very polite about it or smile the staff think the course of action is open to discussion, hence your glass got taken away.

[philliphn]

Was the insect old enough to drink alcohol?

[sickwaterbuffalo2]

oh so you had an insect in your very expensive drink ! you are staying in thailand remember ! do you expect all staff in thailand to be a cordon bleu or master chef or a somelier ! my god so much stuck up farangs on this forum why didnt you go live in the south of france for gods sake ! dont you people have anything else beside complain about this country ! why did you come here anyway?

[Jingthing]

oh so you had an insect in your very expensive drink ! you are staying in thailand remember ! do you expect all staff in thailand to be a cordon bleu or master chef or a somelier ! my god so much stuck up farangs on this forum why didnt you go live in the south of france for gods sake ! dont you people have anything else beside complain about this country ! why did you come here anyway?

.

I can answer that one.

You: What in heaven's name brought you to Thailand?

Me: For the European cuisine. I came to Thailand for the professional waiters.

You: The professional waiters? What professional waiters? We're in a country where fried insects and curried rat are haute cuisine.

Me: I was misinformed.

[Cuban]

They were in the wrong - they were trying to make good (face) - you lost the argument when you left the building.

Next time demand the hotel's duty manager loudly - not the department supervisor.

The lesser evil is to give you free champgne than cope with a dramic scene that upsets everyone.

[bob4you]

I would have made a major scene, sorry. I would have demanded a partial refund for the bottle and I wouldn't have taken no for an answer. They want to save face, I would give them some major face with their other customers until they made good on it. They took away what you paid for without your consent. Outrageous. To hel_l with TIT. At those prices, I would have demanded TAT!

Moving to Thailand does not mean you have to turn into a grade A patsy! Stand up for your consumer rights.

They were in the wrong - they were trying to make good (face) - you lost the argument when you left the building.

Next time demand the hotel's duty manager loudly - not the department supervisor.

The lesser evil is to give you free champgne than cope with a dramic scene that upsets everyone.

I think both of you are wrong and in the wrong country for that kind of attitude. It may work in US or UK but not in Thailand, loosing face is a reason for a bloody beating here, you never know who might be waiting outside when you leave I have seen it many times, hit in run by them regains the face.

I think the suggestion of putting hand over glass and refusing to let go or not even mentioning it and fish the drunken insect out would have been a better idea.

My wife, Thai who doesn't eat insects fried or otherwise found a well done beetle in her half eaten bowl of soup, removed it and just set it on the side and continued eating, I insisted on pointing it out to the waitress who removed the beetle but left the soup which my wife promptly finished. TIT

[Dupont]

I would have made a major scene, sorry. I would have demanded a partial refund for the bottle and I wouldn't have taken no for an answer. They want to save face, I would give them some major face with their other customers until they made good on it. They took away what you paid for without your consent. Outrageous. To hel_l with TIT. At those prices, I would have demanded TAT!

Moving to Thailand does not mean you have to turn into a grade A patsy! Stand up for your consumer rights.

They were in the wrong - they were trying to make good (face) - you lost the argument when you left the building.

Next time demand the hotel's duty manager loudly - not the department supervisor.

The lesser evil is to give you free champgne than cope with a dramic scene that upsets everyone.

I think both of you are wrong and in the wrong country for that kind of attitude. It may work in US or UK but not in Thailand, loosing face is a reason for a bloody beating here, you never know who might be waiting outside when you leave I have seen it many times, hit in run by them regains the face.

I think the suggestion of putting hand over glass and refusing to let go or not even mentioning it and fish the drunken insect out would have been a better idea.

My wife, Thai who doesn't eat insects fried or otherwise found a well done beetle in her half eaten bowl of soup, removed it and just set it on the side and continued eating, I insisted on pointing it out to the waitress who removed the beetle but left the soup which my wife promptly finished. TIT

You are right bob.

I can't believe these superior types are coming here and expecting it to be like the west.

Consumer rights. Please let us know when you are gonna exert them and we can come along and piss ourselves laughing!

[Jingthing]

think both of you are wrong and in the wrong country for that kind of attitude.

Too bad. I ain't leaving. This restaurants was presumably a fancy restaurant catering to lots of farang customers. In a more local place, the waiters wouldn't touch your food if there was an insect. What a joke. In an upscale place putting on airs, part of the airs they had best put on is to not repossess food people pay for. I think standing firm with a manager would work most times in such places, and the idea that you would get killed for this is just over the top. Of course, blocking the waiter while it was happening would have been better and I would have done that too, but that wasn't the question now, was it? The question was about what to do AFTER THE FACT.

Signed,

Not a Passive Patsy in Thailand and Lived to tell the Story

I also favor total avoidance of conflict whenever possible and knowing when it is just not safe to complain (you can't argue with Pattaya baht bus drivers, that will get your head smashed in). A fancy restaurant is not such a place.