Thai Literature

[koheesti]

I was talking with a friend while I was out of the country and he has been told there is no Thai literature. In other words, Thais don't write novels.

Is this true? Does Thailand not have their own Tolstoy or Hemingway?

[sriracha john]

I was talking with a friend while I was out of the country and he has been told there is no Thai literature. In other words, Thais don't write novels.

Is this true? Does Thailand not have their own Tolstoy or Hemingway?

If you stroll into one of these, you'll find hundreds of examples of Thai literature, including novels, written by Thais:

[Neeranam]

I was talking with a friend while I was out of the country and he has been told there is no Thai literature. In other words, Thais don't write novels.

Is this true? Does Thailand not have their own Tolstoy or Hemingway?

I think your friend is a bloody idiot believing that.

[Jingthing]

They have novels for sure, but the Thai equivalent of Tolstoy or Hemingway, I really, really don't think so.

There are a number available in translation.

Edited March 3, 2008 by Jingthing

[Maizefarmer]

They have novels for sure, but the Thai equivalent of Tolstoy or Hemingway, I really, really don't think so.

There are a number available in translation.

Indeed there are Thai equivilants of Tolstoy and Hemmingway – but seldom appreciated in the West as even fewer folk read the language than speak it.

Take Momrwajong Pramoj, one of Thailand’s first prime Ministers, who wrote the famous Thai language novels “Four Reigns” (Si Phaen Din), or the well known novel “Ramakian” – read it for an understanding of Thai culture if you will.

“Phu Chana Sip Thit” is another well known Thai title.

And there are some well known female Thai authors Khunying Winata Dithiyon and Khun Krisana Asoksin … and a few more, but even for ex-pats who can read Thai, the style of most classic Thai literature is heavy going and requires considerable perseverance as the cultural influences can be hard to grasp.

Si Phan Din is available in English (and a set of CD’s with English sub-titles exist – it’s the exception and is a good read.

[Upcountry]

Some English language literature can be a challenge for English speakers too.

I remember dealing with some James Joyce short stories long ago. Then there is "The Sound and the Fury", by Faulkner.

I'd read it today if I had a copy, but I remember starting the first page or so, and noticing that it had some peculiar cultural references.

Goes to show how different Thai and Western cultures are, and how worthwhile the challenge is to try to appreciate it.

UC

[Jingthing]

They have novels for sure, but the Thai equivalent of Tolstoy or Hemingway, I really, really don't think so.

There are a number available in translation.

Indeed there are Thai equivilants of Tolstoy and Hemmingway – but seldom appreciated in the West as even fewer folk read the language than speak it.

Take Momrwajong Pramoj, one of Thailand’s first prime Ministers, who wrote the famous Thai language novels “Four Reigns” (Si Phaen Din), or the well known novel “Ramakian” – read it for an understanding of Thai culture if you will.

“Phu Chana Sip Thit” is another well known Thai title.

And there are some well known female Thai authors Khunying Winata Dithiyon and Khun Krisana Asoksin … and a few more, but even for ex-pats who can read Thai, the style of most classic Thai literature is heavy going and requires considerable perseverance as the cultural influences can be hard to grasp.

Si Phan Din is available in English (and a set of CD’s with English sub-titles exist – it’s the exception and is a good read.

Sorry, I am just not buying it. Thailand may have literature but it clearly is not a great literature loving culture.

[koheesti]

I was talking with a friend while I was out of the country and he has been told there is no Thai literature. In other words, Thais don't write novels.

Is this true? Does Thailand not have their own Tolstoy or Hemingway?

If you stroll into one of these, you'll find hundreds of examples of Thai literature, including novels, written by Thais:

I've been in several of those here in Thailand. But since I don't read Thai, how would I know what type of books they are?

Edited March 3, 2008 by koheesti

[bendix]

Sorry, I am just not buying it. Thailand may have literature but it clearly is not a great literature loving culture.

You could say the same about most western cultures. I'd be interested to see how many UK households have Trollope, Austen or any of the English classics on their shelves. Richard Branson's crappy autobiography perhaps. Stephen Pile's book of lists.

But not real literature . . . .

Same for the US or Australia.

[ashacat]

or the well known novel “Ramakian” – read it for an understanding of Thai culture if you will.

The Ramakian is a translation of the Indian Ramayana.

[Ulysses G.]

Sorry, I am just not buying it. Thailand may have literature but it clearly is not a great literature loving culture.

You could say the same about most western cultures. I'd be interested to see how many UK households have Trollope, Austen or any of the English classics on their shelves. Richard Branson's crappy autobiography perhaps. Stephen Pile's book of lists.

But not real literature . . . .

Same for the US or Australia.

You are wrong.

These households might not have the boring old crap that you seem so impressed by, but many will have modern classics like Catcher in the Rye, Catch 22, Power of One, Lord of the Flies, A Clockwork Orange, Henry Miller, Graham Greene, Orwell, Camus, Brave New World, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Hemingway and many other wonderful works written in modern English.

Great books that intelligent, modern people actually want to read.

Edited March 4, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[TheWalkingMan]

Maybe the question should have been more geared towards... is there a reading list of Thai writers which schools use in order to spark that thirst for reading in people. Or is the gov't happy with the masses sticking to parables.

TheWalkingMan

[DurianChips]

or the well known novel "Ramakian" – read it for an understanding of Thai culture if you will.

The Ramakian is a translation of the Indian Ramayana.

Not exactly, it's actually more of a retelling. Although much of the overall story arc is the same, there are a number of differences. Many Buddhist elements have been added that were not present in the Ramayana. Also, the sexual elements to the Hanuman character, as when Hanuman seduces the fish-goddess, I think are absent from Ramayana. Almost every country in Southeast Asia has their own version of the Ramayana story. Thus, while it is derived from the Indian version, I think Ramakien should be considered Thai literature in its own right.

[longway]

Sorry, I am just not buying it. Thailand may have literature but it clearly is not a great literature loving culture.

You could say the same about most western cultures. I'd be interested to see how many UK households have Trollope, Austen or any of the English classics on their shelves. Richard Branson's crappy autobiography perhaps. Stephen Pile's book of lists.

But not real literature . . . .

Same for the US or Australia.

You are wrong.

These households might not have the boring old crap that you seem so impressed by, but many will have modern classics like Catcher in the Rye, Catch 22, Power of One, Lord of the Flies, A Clockwork Orange, Henry Miller, Graham Greene, Orwell, Camus, Brave New World, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Hemingway and many other wonderful works written in modern English.

Great books that intelligent, modern people actually want to read.

In terms of modern thai classics, I think books by Chart Korbjitti are very good. I have read a couple, as they have been translated into English. I would recommend 'The Judgement' to anyone who is interested. I read the book about 3 years ago, but still remember the story quite well, it says alot about the power of the book.

I have also heard that a book by him titled 'Time' is very good to but have not read it yet.

[Jingthing]

Sorry, I am just not buying it. Thailand may have literature but it clearly is not a great literature loving culture.

You could say the same about most western cultures. I'd be interested to see how many UK households have Trollope, Austen or any of the English classics on their shelves. Richard Branson's crappy autobiography perhaps. Stephen Pile's book of lists.

But not real literature . . . .

Same for the US or Australia.

You are wrong.

These households might not have the boring old crap that you seem so impressed by, but many will have modern classics like Catcher in the Rye, Catch 22, Power of One, Lord of the Flies, A Clockwork Orange, Henry Miller, Graham Greene, Orwell, Camus, Brave New World, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Hemingway and many other wonderful works written in modern English.

Great books that intelligent, modern people actually want to read.

Exactly. And also of course Naked Lunch.

[Maizefarmer]

or the well known novel “Ramakian” – read it for an understanding of Thai culture if you will.

The Ramakian is a translation of the Indian Ramayana.

Yes, I have heard this argument before and in so far as there are cultural, mythological and linguistic similarities between Thailand and India, and yes, the story line is much of a copy of the Indian version, but it is not recognised literally as a translation. As Durianchips points out very inofrmatively indeed and which having read it large parts of it myself over the years myself, he is quite correct in his observations, it has content in it which is uniquely Thai.

... of course, no acknowldegement regards the other titles I quoted???

Personally I dont see Chart Korbjitti as a literature giant, but who am I know - I do though concurr he is an excellent author and I have enjoyed reading most of his books over the years.

In reply to Jingthings comment - comparing Thai literature against the "greats" of Western literature is a bit difficult. Again, it comes down to our perception and understanding of things - authors like Tolstoy and Hemmingway are seen as great in Western culture as the content is easy to identify with Western culture. To an Asian whose cultural percepions and values are different, they would identify or relate to Asian subject matter more so than they would to Western influences in literature.

So yes, Tolstoy and Hemmingway are great authors, but does that put them in a higher/better class than Thai authors of similar but local standing? No, I don't believe it does - what is "great" is relative to our perceptions and cultural values

Edited March 4, 2008 by Maizefarmer

[madjbs]

Well said Maizefarmer, I completely agree.

[Jingthing]

So yes, Tolstoy and Hemmingway are great authors, but does that put them in a higher/better class than Thai authors of similar but local standing? No, I don't believe it does - what is "great" is relative to our perceptions and cultural values

So who exactly are these Thai authors of such stature? I reject your premise really. Not every country has great everything. I don't think Canadian silk is in big demand. Many cultures don't have any written literature at all. That isn't saying they are inferior; that part is a value judgement.

Edited March 4, 2008 by Jingthing

[madjbs]

Jingthing, why don't you explain why it is so impossible for there to be any great Thai writers. Do you read Thai books and Thai book reviews etc..?

[Jingthing]

Jingthing, why don't you explain why it is so impossible for there to be any great Thai writers. Do you read Thai books and Thai book reviews etc..?

I never said it is impossible. I just don't know of any that are great in a world class way. I have read translated modern Thai novels that have been quite decent. Thailand is not a paradise of highbrow culture, sorry to inform you.

Edited March 4, 2008 by Jingthing

[madjbs]

But that is exactly the point, why exactly are these very good western writers "world class", what is a world class writer and who exactly is deciding who these world class writers are? It may well be the case that they are considered the best in westernized and English speaking countries but I seriously doubt that people in other places around the world consider them the best. As Maizefarmer has stated, it is all about culture and what people perceive as good and how they can relate to it. You perceive them as the best because you are an English speaking American, a traditional Chinese or Thai person for example who can not read English is going to have a completely different way of looking at things. To think that your way is right or the best is highly ethnocentric.

[Jingjok]

You could say the same about most western cultures. I'd be interested to see how many UK households have Trollope, Austen or any of the English classics on their shelves...

Don't be absurd, of course we don't! But like the best china, it's nice for us Brits to know it is there.

No one would dream of actually using it

And why has no one mentioned Shakespeare?

[Eric1949]

You could say the same about most western cultures. I'd be interested to see how many UK households have Trollope, Austen or any of the English classics on their shelves...

Don't be absurd, of course we don't! But like the best china, it's nice for us Brits to know it is there.

No one would dream of actually using it

And why has no one mentioned Shakespeare?

Or Dickens for that matter. Britain, US and Europe have authors of classic literature known the world over. Has Thailand, I don't think so. How many Thais do you see with their noses in books for hours on end, it's more likely childrens comics.

Edited March 5, 2008 by Eric1949

[Jingthing]

Has Thailand, I don't think so. How many Thais do you see with their noses in books for hours on end, it's more likely childrens comics.

Indeed. No amount of cultural sensitivity or political correctness changes this reality.

madjbs: Can you name the Thai authors that you claim are so wonderful by Thai standards? I would think any that are that great would mostly be available translated. I do know lots is lost in translation.

Another point I really disagree with you about: great literature is universal and speaks to all humanity.

Edited March 5, 2008 by Jingthing

[bendix]

You are wrong.

These households might not have the boring old crap that you seem so impressed by, but many will have modern classics like Catcher in the Rye, Catch 22, Power of One, Lord of the Flies, A Clockwork Orange, Henry Miller, Graham Greene, Orwell, Camus, Brave New World, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Hemingway and many other wonderful works written in modern English.

Great books that intelligent, modern people actually want to read.

I beg to differ.

I'd bet a month's salary that if you did a straw poll of 100 people in a typical (let's say) Nottingham high street or Plano Texas shopping mall, less than ten could give you the titles of two Graham Greene novels, let alone have read them, or could tell you who wrote The Outsider.

PS . . modern intelligent people do NOT want to read the Power of One.

(And, for the record, I have everything Greene ever wrote, most of them in very valuable first UK edition format)

[simon43]

Some contempory novels by Thai authors that have been translated into English and are worth a read:

Time - Chart Korbjitti (and his other novels)

Jasmine Nights - S.P.Somtow

Monsoon Country - Pira Sudham (who actually only writes in English) Also his other novels

Sightseeing - Rattawut Lapcharoensap

Behind the Painting - Siburapha

I got round to reading all these novels as part of my MA in Thai Studies at Chula. Most of these authors have won SEA Write awards.

I think there are many good Thai authors whose work has yet to be translated into English. But as has been mentioned previously, translations can sometimes distort what the author was trying to say. Furthermore, the subject matter of some novels may be of great interest to Thais, but of little interest or 'over the head' for the average farang, (eg, issues of face, dharma etc)

Simon

[madjbs]

I think there are many good Thai authors whose work has yet to be translated into English. But as has been mentioned previously, translations can sometimes distort what the author was trying to say. Furthermore, the subject matter of some novels may be of great interest to Thais, but of little interest or 'over the head' for the average farang, (eg, issues of face, dharma etc)

This is why I think you ca not say literature is great whatever country you are in. If a book is translated it simply can not be considered as the same, we would need a Thai Charles Dickens or whoever just to translate the thing. Therefore non English speakers are not going to consider these authors as great and there is a large portion of the world that does not speak read or write English. They will have their own authors that are considered as great, it is working both ways as you will not be able to appreciate the literature unless you are fluent in Thai. A translation is only as good as the translator.

[koheesti]

Some contempory novels by Thai authors that have been translated into English and are worth a read:

Time - Chart Korbjitti (and his other novels)

Jasmine Nights - S.P.Somtow

Monsoon Country - Pira Sudham (who actually only writes in English) Also his other novels

Sightseeing - Rattawut Lapcharoensap

Behind the Painting - Siburapha

I got round to reading all these novels as part of my MA in Thai Studies at Chula. Most of these authors have won SEA Write awards.

I think there are many good Thai authors whose work has yet to be translated into English. But as has been mentioned previously, translations can sometimes distort what the author was trying to say. Furthermore, the subject matter of some novels may be of great interest to Thais, but of little interest or 'over the head' for the average farang, (eg, issues of face, dharma etc)

Simon

Thank You.

[longway]

Some contempory novels by Thai authors that have been translated into English and are worth a read:

Time - Chart Korbjitti (and his other novels)

Jasmine Nights - S.P.Somtow

Monsoon Country - Pira Sudham (who actually only writes in English) Also his other novels

Sightseeing - Rattawut Lapcharoensap

Behind the Painting - Siburapha

I got round to reading all these novels as part of my MA in Thai Studies at Chula. Most of these authors have won SEA Write awards.

I think there are many good Thai authors whose work has yet to be translated into English. But as has been mentioned previously, translations can sometimes distort what the author was trying to say. Furthermore, the subject matter of some novels may be of great interest to Thais, but of little interest or 'over the head' for the average farang, (eg, issues of face, dharma etc)

Simon

Thank You.

The 20 best novels of Thailand

[madjbs]

That looks like a very well balanced and fair report to me.