The Restaurants And Stores Are Always Packed

[zorro1]

I know a Thai guy, who is on 30k Baht a month and has just bought a brand new Mercedes on which he pays 27K Baht a month, I asked him how he survives on 3k bht diposable income per month and he says its enough as he is Thai. He pays 1,500bht p/m for what can only be described as a concrete shed with a corrogated roof. It's all to do with face again, he loves the way the Police salute him when he drives past.

He'll be fuc_ked if he has to pay for any repairs then.

repairs on a new benz?

Now servicing cost at local benz dealer is another matter and it wont be due until around 6 months so I guess he will worry about it then..

[bendix]

Ok, then what percent of the population would you say makes, 65,000 a month? I'm asking cause I live in Issan and the majority of the people here are very poor, and a person working in BKK with a college education is said to be able to make about 16,000 a month. There is a 50,000 baht difference in these numbers. I have a niece and a nephew both college educated, one speaks, writes, and reads English very well yet cannot even get close to making 16,000 a month. So as you can see I wonder why. I mean if its commonplace, why aren't they able to find these plentiful jobs with good pay, which you are surrounded by? I really want the best for the individuals in the family of which I am a member. Yet in the years which I have lived here the salaries which you describe seem not at all commonplace. In fact I would say that they are quite rare.

Very good question. Obviously I'm plucking this figure from the air but I would hazard a guess and say probably around 2-3% of those in paid employment earn that sum, perhaps more. As ijustwannateach said, I work in a multinational in a cbd and those salaries for locals are common in this environment because of competitive pressures - we're talking here about graduates from good universities, good English etc etc. That 2-3% is a guess at a national figure. In Bkk it might be up to 7-8%; and in the silom / sathorn area it might be as high as 15%.

As i said, just a guess.

OK, 2-3% is hardly a huge percentage but it if you pick 65k as the top of the wage range for Thailand, then it's comparable to the percentage of wageowners in more advanced economies who earn the 'top salaries'.

[bendix]

Remember the daughter of the Bangkok Film Festival official who was supposed to have had money transferred to her account? The reports at the time said she was working for the Finance Ministry and earning less than 10,000 baht a month if I remember correctly. If a person with good family connections like her doesn't earn a lot then it makes you wonder if there can really be very many Thais earning over 50,000 per month.

Two points here. Public sector jobs are notoriously low paid. Do you recall the sting operation that occurred in Lumpini Park a couple of years ago - many of the hookers there turned out to be government employees trying to make ends meet.

But let's get real. The daughter of a high profile family working in the Finance Ministry for peanuts is earning her stripes, ready for a much bigger job in a few years when she will once again earn a low salary but, by then, will be in a position to supplement that salary drastically through unofficial means.

[clausewitz]

OK, 2-3% is hardly a huge percentage but it if you pick 65k as the top of the wage range for Thailand, then it's comparable to the percentage of wageowners in more advanced economies who earn the 'top salaries'.

I work for a thai company with a couple of hundred employees and I know at least 10 that are on salaries over 140,000/month.

However most of my richer friends own businesses.

[mellow1]

Ok, then what percent of the population would you say makes, 65,000 a month? I'm asking cause I live in Issan and the majority of the people here are very poor, and a person working in BKK with a college education is said to be able to make about 16,000 a month. There is a 50,000 baht difference in these numbers. I have a niece and a nephew both college educated, one speaks, writes, and reads English very well yet cannot even get close to making 16,000 a month. So as you can see I wonder why. I mean if its commonplace, why aren't they able to find these plentiful jobs with good pay, which you are surrounded by? I really want the best for the individuals in the family of which I am a member. Yet in the years which I have lived here the salaries which you describe seem not at all commonplace. In fact I would say that they are quite rare.

Very good question. Obviously I'm plucking this figure from the air but I would hazard a guess and say probably around 2-3% of those in paid employment earn that sum, perhaps more. As ijustwannateach said, I work in a multinational in a cbd and those salaries for locals are common in this environment because of competitive pressures - we're talking here about graduates from good universities, good English etc etc. That 2-3% is a guess at a national figure. In Bkk it might be up to 7-8%; and in the silom / sathorn area it might be as high as 15%.

As i said, just a guess.

OK, 2-3% is hardly a huge percentage but it if you pick 65k as the top of the wage range for Thailand, then it's comparable to the percentage of wageowners in more advanced economies who earn the 'top salaries'.

That 2-3% would hardly create a new middle class of people with a purchasing power comparable to the average expat refugee, who has to show a monthly income of at least 45,000 or 65,000 Baht. My family (immediate) with no debts, spends about 50,000Baht on day to day living, without going to fancy restaurants, or making unnecessary purchases, with no house or car payments. We also eat Thai food. Due to the bad health of the dollar anything with a large price tag, will be put off until its health greatly improves. Luckily we have all the necessities. I do not see why a Farang with a similar income, would be bothered by Thai working people, with the income discussed, spending it on whatever goods they desire. I am quite aware though that there is a small minority of Thais who are extremely rich. This doesn't bother me in the least, nor should it anyone else. I do not see the vast majority of the population to fall within this income bracket anytime soon. The country wouldn't be able to sustain it. A country where 65% of its income depends on basically cheap exports, and another 15% is dependent on relatively low cost tourism.

[mellow1]

OK, 2-3% is hardly a huge percentage but it if you pick 65k as the top of the wage range for Thailand, then it's comparable to the percentage of wageowners in more advanced economies who earn the 'top salaries'.

I work for a thai company with a couple of hundred employees and I know at least 10 that are on salaries over 140,000/month.

However most of my richer friends own businesses.

That's great. I know laborers in the US that have them beat.

[t.s]

I know a Thai guy, who is on 30k Baht a month and has just bought a brand new Mercedes on which he pays 27K Baht a month, I asked him how he survives on 3k bht diposable income per month and he says its enough as he is Thai. He pays 1,500bht p/m for what can only be described as a concrete shed with a corrogated roof. It's all to do with face again, he loves the way the Police salute him when he drives past.

He'll be fuc_ked if he has to pay for any repairs then.

its new, he wont have to cover a repair for 3 + years

[clausewitz]

OK, 2-3% is hardly a huge percentage but it if you pick 65k as the top of the wage range for Thailand, then it's comparable to the percentage of wageowners in more advanced economies who earn the 'top salaries'.

I work for a thai company with a couple of hundred employees and I know at least 10 that are on salaries over 140,000/month.

However most of my richer friends own businesses.

That's great. I know laborers in the US that have them beat.

And your point is?

[mrt273nva]

Dont forget a lot of people go shopping for the free air con!

i do that!

[mellow1]

OK, 2-3% is hardly a huge percentage but it if you pick 65k as the top of the wage range for Thailand, then it's comparable to the percentage of wageowners in more advanced economies who earn the 'top salaries'.

I work for a thai company with a couple of hundred employees and I know at least 10 that are on salaries over 140,000/month.

However most of my richer friends own businesses.

That's great. I know laborers in the US that have them beat.

And your point is?

The point is , whats to be jealous about?

[Plus]

140,000 translates into what? 50,000 USD a year? How many laborers in the US earn that? Don't forget annual bonuses that can be anywhere from two to nine months salary. Toyota usually pays six months bonus.

That's enough for downpayment either for a house or a car.

[wintermute]

OK, 2-3% is hardly a huge percentage but it if you pick 65k as the top of the wage range for Thailand, then it's comparable to the percentage of wageowners in more advanced economies who earn the 'top salaries'.

I work for a thai company with a couple of hundred employees and I know at least 10 that are on salaries over 140,000/month.

However most of my richer friends own businesses.

That's great. I know laborers in the US that have them beat.

You're not taking into account cost of living and taxes in the U.S. which is much higher than Thailand. After taxes someone making the equivalent would be left with about 65%. There are 101 ways for Thais to not pay taxes here so a lot of that income goes into their pocket under the table too. That would be a pretty decent salary just about anywhere.

[bendix]

OK, 2-3% is hardly a huge percentage but it if you pick 65k as the top of the wage range for Thailand, then it's comparable to the percentage of wageowners in more advanced economies who earn the 'top salaries'.

I work for a thai company with a couple of hundred employees and I know at least 10 that are on salaries over 140,000/month.

However most of my richer friends own businesses.

That's great. I know laborers in the US that have them beat.

You're not taking into account cost of living and taxes in the U.S. which is much higher than Thailand. After taxes someone making the equivalent would be left with about 65%. There are 101 ways for Thais to not pay taxes here so a lot of that income goes into their pocket under the table too. That would be a pretty decent salary just about anywhere.

Anyone earning 140,000 a month is not likely to be avoiding tax. They will be working in a bonafide company and have taxes deducted at source. And, believe me, the deductibles in Thailand are nowhere near so liberal as they are in the US.

Edited March 18, 2008 by bendix

[clausewitz]

Anyone earning 140,000 a month is not likely to be avoiding tax. They will be working in a bonafide company and have taxes deducted at source. And, believe me, the deductibles in Thailand are nowhere near so liberal as they are in the US.

Yes the tax is rather steep at that level- they would net about 112,000.

[Shuddee]

The one who bought the BMW on a 30K baht per month salary is what I find interesting. I too have seen these small townhouses and virtual shacks with European luxury cars parked outside of them. It all has to do with, I think, that Thai desire for a good outward appearance.

Contrast that to us...some of us back home, at least that I've seen, wear Timex watches, drive Toyotas or GMs to work, and come home to million dollar mansions (or at least 100s of thousands of dollars worth).

Just different values IMHO.

The CIA World Factbook stopped listing GDP per capita, but when it did a couple of years ago, and last time I checked in a front-page article in the Bangkok Post, it said that the average Thai salary was $7,000-$9,000 per year. Maybe all the 50K per month earners are centering around places in which some of us tend to congregate in our little "farang colonies."

[Heng]

The one who bought the BMW on a 30K baht per month salary is what I find interesting. I too have seen these small townhouses and virtual shacks with European luxury cars parked outside of them. It all has to do with, I think, that Thai desire for a good outward appearance.

Contrast that to us...some of us back home, at least that I've seen, wear Timex watches, drive Toyotas or GMs to work, and come home to million dollar mansions (or at least 100s of thousands of dollars worth).

Just different values IMHO.

In the same way that you'll find a lot of the well to do back home still mortgaged to the hilt, while here it's often 100% equity. IMO you're much more likely to run into someone say in the US making 700-800k USD a year AND still in debt and living paycheck to paycheck (because they upgrade and finance everything as they go instead of maintaining their current lifestyle and increasing their wealth) like someone making $25,000 a year. When you get into that range here, it's nearly all 100% equity with fairly high liquidity (true, the main residence will often appear much more humble: for example the BBL Sophonpanich's and KBank Lamsam's lived in rather humble townhouse type shophouses well into the mid hundred millions US$ networth range... but the portfolio behind it allows for a better night's sleep).

Again, different values.

I think people get confused with the element of society here that is showy with their rather meagre wealth (composed of those with no real property wealth at all and the nouveau riche), and overlook (as is the intent by those who are truly wealthy here) the actual Confucian trend throughout 'overseas China' (of which Thailand is part of) to actually hide a good portion, if not the majority of their wealth.

I have no idea where the CIA factbook gets its stats or if I'm even part of the calculations somehow, but for example: I know for surveys that come my way, whether it's AC Nielson or any investment bank fishing for customers (apparently there are local and regional banks selling information that they shouldn't be selling), I always check/choose the lowest brackets, never more than $25k USD a year and if possible 10-15 thousand Baht a month. It results in some amusing cold calls.

Edited March 18, 2008 by Heng

[farang prince]

Dont forget a lot of people go shopping for the free air con!

You nailed it Spasticated. Shopping malls throughout Asia are always crowded because people go there to cool off and to socialize with friends.

Edited March 19, 2008 by farang prince

[mellow1]

In the US if your house is paid off you would have no tax deduction for it and you would be paying lots of taxes. It also applies to other assets, hence it's good to have loans on things, for deduction purposes. Goes for leasing cars etc.

[Heng]

Yes, that's what the pitch is. And folks are always encouraged to maximize their capital and to keep paying off their homes and properties, because that debt is 'good' tax wise and relatively "cheap" capital... they are also told to ignore the legions of companies and individuals who collapse under the burden of these debts or because their cash flow becomes too restricted.

However, if you look at the habits of many (not all of course) older money families/conservative crowd that run the US... they don't buy into their own pitch and do indeed have their homes paid off. IMO that school of thought is a greater minority in the US than it is here. Of course one's results may vary and if one spends more time with a certain segment of society, it's only natural to come to think that it represents the norms of local society.

[Prakanong]

Anyone earning 140,000 a month is not likely to be avoiding tax. They will be working in a bonafide company and have taxes deducted at source. And, believe me, the deductibles in Thailand are nowhere near so liberal as they are in the US.

Yes the tax is rather steep at that level- they would net about 112,000.

It is rather steep - I had better look at my Singapore tax calculator again to make me feel much better about choosing here instead of another go in Bangkok

(I also do not think my other costs in Singapore make up the tax difference but I may be wrong)

[mellow1]

Yes, that's what the pitch is. And folks are always encouraged to maximize their capital and to keep paying off their homes and properties, because that debt is 'good' tax wise and relatively "cheap" capital... they are also told to ignore the legions of companies and individuals who collapse under the burden of these debts or because their cash flow becomes too restricted.

However, if you look at the habits of many (not all of course) older money families/conservative crowd that run the US... they don't buy into their own pitch and do indeed have their homes paid off. IMO that school of thought is a greater minority in the US than it is here. Of course one's results may vary and if one spends more time with a certain segment of society, it's only natural to come to think that it represents the norms of local society.

Wouldn't know about all these economic and various business theories, all I know mine is paid off, cause I don't like debts and would rather own what I have, than trust others with my money. Of course I'm not rich, but we live well and have what we need.

[Heng]

Yes, that's what the pitch is. And folks are always encouraged to maximize their capital and to keep paying off their homes and properties, because that debt is 'good' tax wise and relatively "cheap" capital... they are also told to ignore the legions of companies and individuals who collapse under the burden of these debts or because their cash flow becomes too restricted.

However, if you look at the habits of many (not all of course) older money families/conservative crowd that run the US... they don't buy into their own pitch and do indeed have their homes paid off. IMO that school of thought is a greater minority in the US than it is here. Of course one's results may vary and if one spends more time with a certain segment of society, it's only natural to come to think that it represents the norms of local society.

Wouldn't know about all these economic and various business theories, all I know mine is paid off, cause I don't like debts and would rather own what I have, than trust others with my money. Of course I'm not rich, but we live well and have what we need.

Ditto. I've seen how fast interest works from the point of view of a lender than to EVER want to be on the other end.

Any place that has more people who believe in the same will inevitably have more families with generational wealth (and it'll often leave outsiders perplexed as to "where is the wealth coming from?"). When you never or rarely have debt, mortgages, etc., your affairs are perpetually settled and it pretty much automatically accrues to the next generation. It's much more messy the other way... and interest keeps working against you the whole time you're trying to get it all sorted.

[ChiangMaiThai]

so you confirm my suspision that it is next to impossible to become 'rich' in thailand on a salary, unlike Western countries where a doctor or various other professions can do very very well on a salary.

Not true. There are lawyers sitting metres away from me as I write this who will earn an average of US$800-900,000 this year. Admittedly it's a good year, but half a million or more is commonplace in this profession at the right level.

So what percent of the Thai population would you say are in that bracket?

Very few, but even one example refutes the proposition that noone gets rich from a salary in Thailand.

I look around me in the cbd district of Bangkok and I see lots of Thais earning pretty good money. Large MNC finance companies, CA firms, law firms .. they all pay premiums for good quality people.

There are four secretaries sitting outside my office right now. All young women in their twenties. Not one of them is earning less than 65,000 a month and all but one of them are married to young thai guys earning similar if not better salaries at places like Citibank or Deloitte.

Secretaries in their 20's making 65,000 Baht a month? I don't doubt you, but obviously you are dealing with the upper tier of the Thai working class. There are two receptionists sitting outside my office now. They both speak fluent English and have graduated from a top Thai university. They will each take home 12,000 Baht this month. There are five Telemarketers sitting outside my office now, all with university degrees. They will each take home about 18,000 Baht this month. There are four sales people across the hallway. All Thai. All univerisy graduates. They will all take home 20,000 to 30,000 Baht this month. I am the number two in a branch office of 45, part of a major five star resort chain. I will take home about 60,000 baht this month. In a really good month, it might be 100,000. My GF has university degree, decent English and 8 years experience in the luxury hotel industry. After being promoted to head concierge at a major 5 star hotel here, she will take home under 20,000 Baht this month.

Deloitte, Citibank, Ernst & Young. Yes there are multinationals in Thailand paying well, but its an extremely low percentage of Thais who have any hope of working there.

Edited March 19, 2008 by ChiangMaiThai

[mellow1]

so you confirm my suspision that it is next to impossible to become 'rich' in thailand on a salary, unlike Western countries where a doctor or various other professions can do very very well on a salary.

Not true. There are lawyers sitting metres away from me as I write this who will earn an average of US$800-900,000 this year. Admittedly it's a good year, but half a million or more is commonplace in this profession at the right level.

So what percent of the Thai population would you say are in that bracket?

Very few, but even one example refutes the proposition that noone gets rich from a salary in Thailand.

I look around me in the cbd district of Bangkok and I see lots of Thais earning pretty good money. Large MNC finance companies, CA firms, law firms .. they all pay premiums for good quality people.

There are four secretaries sitting outside my office right now. All young women in their twenties. Not one of them is earning less than 65,000 a month and all but one of them are married to young thai guys earning similar if not better salaries at places like Citibank or Deloitte.

Secretaries in their 20's making 65,000 Baht a month? I don't doubt you, but obviously you are dealing with the upper tier of the Thai working class. There are two receptionists sitting outside my office now. They both speak fluent English and have graduated from a top Thai university. They will each take home 12,000 Baht this month. There are five Telemarketers sitting outside my office now, all with university degrees. They will each take home about 18,000 Baht this month. There are four sales people across the hallway. All Thai. All univerisy graduates. They will all take home 20,000 to 30,000 Baht this month. I am the number two in a branch office of 45, part of a major five star resort chain. I will take home about 60,000 baht this month. In a really good month, it might be 100,000. My GF has university degree, decent English and 8 years experience in the luxury hotel industry. After being promoted to head concierge at a major 5 star hotel here, she will take home under 20,000 Baht this month.

Deloitte, Citibank, Ernst & Young. Yes there are multinationals in Thailand paying well, but its an extremely low percentage if Thais who have any hope of working there.

Unfortunately for Thais, this is a much more realistic view of available wages, and these people are the lucky ones. I think last year there was something in the paper about 40,000 college graduates in that year alone unable to find a job (something like that), it might of had another zero, but can't remember.

[TheDon]

so you confirm my suspision that it is next to impossible to become 'rich' in thailand on a salary, unlike Western countries where a doctor or various other professions can do very very well on a salary.

Not true. There are lawyers sitting metres away from me as I write this who will earn an average of US$800-900,000 this year. Admittedly it's a good year, but half a million or more is commonplace in this profession at the right level.

So what percent of the Thai population would you say are in that bracket?

Very few, but even one example refutes the proposition that noone gets rich from a salary in Thailand.

I look around me in the cbd district of Bangkok and I see lots of Thais earning pretty good money. Large MNC finance companies, CA firms, law firms .. they all pay premiums for good quality people.

There are four secretaries sitting outside my office right now. All young women in their twenties. Not one of them is earning less than 65,000 a month and all but one of them are married to young thai guys earning similar if not better salaries at places like Citibank or Deloitte.

Secretaries in their 20's making 65,000 Baht a month? I don't doubt you, but obviously you are dealing with the upper tier of the Thai working class. There are two receptionists sitting outside my office now. They both speak fluent English and have graduated from a top Thai university. They will each take home 12,000 Baht this month. There are five Telemarketers sitting outside my office now, all with university degrees. They will each take home about 18,000 Baht this month. There are four sales people across the hallway. All Thai. All univerisy graduates. They will all take home 20,000 to 30,000 Baht this month. I am the number two in a branch office of 45, part of a major five star resort chain. I will take home about 60,000 baht this month. In a really good month, it might be 100,000. My GF has university degree, decent English and 8 years experience in the luxury hotel industry. After being promoted to head concierge at a major 5 star hotel here, she will take home under 20,000 Baht this month.

Deloitte, Citibank, Ernst & Young. Yes there are multinationals in Thailand paying well, but its an extremely low percentage if Thais who have any hope of working there.

Unfortunately for Thais, this is a much more realistic view of available wages, and these people are the lucky ones. I think last year there was something in the paper about 40,000 college graduates in that year alone unable to find a job (something like that), it might of had another zero, but can't remember.

I may get a transfer to Deloitte Thailand but im worried how much they are going to pay me. Does anyone know how much an accountant get paid in Thailand? like an avg

[meadish_sweetball]

You're an accountant? This does not seem to add up.

[steveromagnino]

Ok, then what percent of the population would you say makes, 65,000 a month? I'm asking cause I live in Issan and the majority of the people here are very poor, and a person working in BKK with a college education is said to be able to make about 16,000 a month. There is a 50,000 baht difference in these numbers. I have a niece and a nephew both college educated, one speaks, writes, and reads English very well yet cannot even get close to making 16,000 a month. So as you can see I wonder why. I mean if its commonplace, why aren't they able to find these plentiful jobs with good pay, which you are surrounded by? I really want the best for the individuals in the family of which I am a member. Yet in the years which I have lived here the salaries which you describe seem not at all commonplace. In fact I would say that they are quite rare.

I can tell you that in 2003/4 there were 1 million Thais in Bangkok belonging to households with a proved income of 70,000b a month or higher. That ignores the grey economy and ignores the non taxed stuff from SMEs.

NESDB data. That meant 1m people out of Bangkok's total population of something like 8m registered I think it was back then. 3.3 people average per household.

The average household wage of Bangkok at that time was something in the realm of about 30-40,000b a month. I am clutching at straws a bit here as it was a long time ago that I needed these numbers for a retail mall client.

16k for a graduate per month is completely reasonable in Bangkok. Even for someone with a couple of years of experience. But after that, the cream rise and start earning far more. hel_l I am not ashamed to say when I returned to the office, I was earning less than 40k a month initially.....now counting bonuses etc would be almost 10X that and possibly as much as 20X that if things go well. And I earn thai wages! A fair few of my fully Thai friends are earning significantly more than this, and we are talking guys in their late 20s to late 30s; masters degree, some never educated abroad, mostly hard working and many without the fancy Euro car and showy Panarai watch; some of you guys spend too much time looking for signs of spending; there are probably rich people all around you but they choose not to show it.

Based on my knowledge of wage increases and knowing how much of the economy here is grey, total guess here based on gut+past NESDB data for Bangkok; I'd say there are probably now something like 2m-3m people with a household income of at least 50k a month; certainly enough to shop at Central, own a car, own a house/condo and send kids to an OK school. That's the middle class. That's a husband earning 25k/wife earning 25k say; in some cases a single person earning and stay at home wife, sometimes single living along. Kids rolled into that.

You could add 50% to that number which would reflect the rest of the country. Most of the wealth is concentrated in BKK.

making a massive assumption on SME owners vs. employees it is probably harder to get rich working for someone. Civil service is a prime job though; plenty of major gains later on with the skims possible, same as politics; they don't do it for the published salary.

That said, I'd guess in Bangkok there are at least 1m individuals working for someone and earning at least 50k. Probably something like 200-300,000 people earning at least 80k. And probably 50-100k Thai people earning 120k or more.

not exactly a lot of money these days; in All Season Place, Q house Lumpini or most other grade A buildings, even the maids are earning at least 10k; you cannot afford to hire clowns to work in such expensive surroundings. Grads are earning 15-25k; most run of the mill staff on at least 15k and mostly 2 or 3 times that. management at least 40k.

We are hiring, and to get anyone good, 40k is about the starting rate for ANYONE with some work experience these days.

my feeling is most people upcountry have no idea how expensive it is to work in Bangkok and don't really know how much staff cost.

[jonniebkk]

The average household wage of Bangkok at that time was something in the realm of about 30-40,000b a month.

I don't know what you (or the study) defined as the "household wage")? How many wage earners were included in the household to come up with this B 30-40k figure? More than likely that there were 3-4 earners in said household so their wages were more in the B 10-15k each.

As to your figures of B 30-40k for basically entry level pink-color workers in Bangkok...I think you are way high in your figures.

[spasticated]

<br />

Dont forget a lot of people go shopping for the free air con!

<br /><br />You nailed it Spasticated. Shopping malls throughout Asia are always crowded because people go there to cool off and to socialize with friends.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Plus the free entertainment laid on each week especially at places like Seacon Square usually some woman screeching her head off......... if only I could sit on the balcony with my snipers rifle!!!

I do love walking round the shops though.

I think Bendix's workmates (should that be "colleagues" at this level?) are at the top of the tree as others have said, a bit like being a worker in the UK in a top job for a top company and then being placed in London where salaries are again even higher.

Good for them but far from the norm.

Salaries is something I have struggled with here never really knowing how much is "darn good" how much is "good" or just "normal". I dont use any of the money our business makes here in Thailand the wife keeps it all at 55000 per month net.

My Uk salary is quite sufficient.

[mellow1]

Ok, then what percent of the population would you say makes, 65,000 a month? I'm asking cause I live in Issan and the majority of the people here are very poor, and a person working in BKK with a college education is said to be able to make about 16,000 a month. There is a 50,000 baht difference in these numbers. I have a niece and a nephew both college educated, one speaks, writes, and reads English very well yet cannot even get close to making 16,000 a month. So as you can see I wonder why. I mean if its commonplace, why aren't they able to find these plentiful jobs with good pay, which you are surrounded by? I really want the best for the individuals in the family of which I am a member. Yet in the years which I have lived here the salaries which you describe seem not at all commonplace. In fact I would say that they are quite rare.

I can tell you that in 2003/4 there were 1 million Thais in Bangkok belonging to households with a proved income of 70,000b a month or higher. That ignores the grey economy and ignores the non taxed stuff from SMEs.

NESDB data. That meant 1m people out of Bangkok's total population of something like 8m registered I think it was back then. 3.3 people average per household.

The average household wage of Bangkok at that time was something in the realm of about 30-40,000b a month. I am clutching at straws a bit here as it was a long time ago that I needed these numbers for a retail mall client.

16k for a graduate per month is completely reasonable in Bangkok. Even for someone with a couple of years of experience. But after that, the cream rise and start earning far more. hel_l I am not ashamed to say when I returned to the office, I was earning less than 40k a month initially.....now counting bonuses etc would be almost 10X that and possibly as much as 20X that if things go well. And I earn thai wages! A fair few of my fully Thai friends are earning significantly more than this, and we are talking guys in their late 20s to late 30s; masters degree, some never educated abroad, mostly hard working and many without the fancy Euro car and showy Panarai watch; some of you guys spend too much time looking for signs of spending; there are probably rich people all around you but they choose not to show it.

Based on my knowledge of wage increases and knowing how much of the economy here is grey, total guess here based on gut+past NESDB data for Bangkok; I'd say there are probably now something like 2m-3m people with a household income of at least 50k a month; certainly enough to shop at Central, own a car, own a house/condo and send kids to an OK school. That's the middle class. That's a husband earning 25k/wife earning 25k say; in some cases a single person earning and stay at home wife, sometimes single living along. Kids rolled into that.

You could add 50% to that number which would reflect the rest of the country. Most of the wealth is concentrated in BKK.

making a massive assumption on SME owners vs. employees it is probably harder to get rich working for someone. Civil service is a prime job though; plenty of major gains later on with the skims possible, same as politics; they don't do it for the published salary.

That said, I'd guess in Bangkok there are at least 1m individuals working for someone and earning at least 50k. Probably something like 200-300,000 people earning at least 80k. And probably 50-100k Thai people earning 120k or more.

not exactly a lot of money these days; in All Season Place, Q house Lumpini or most other grade A buildings, even the maids are earning at least 10k; you cannot afford to hire clowns to work in such expensive surroundings. Grads are earning 15-25k; most run of the mill staff on at least 15k and mostly 2 or 3 times that. management at least 40k.

We are hiring, and to get anyone good, 40k is about the starting rate for ANYONE with some work experience these days.

my feeling is most people upcountry have no idea how expensive it is to work in Bangkok and don't really know how much staff cost.

Well I'm sure that there are quite a few Thais in BKK making good money, after all someone has to be paying for all the stuff that people have. All I said is that I don't see why it would anger or make jealous various Farangs. Many of these wages are far from extraordinary when compared with Farangland, and if these Farang were working in their respective countries they would easily exceed many of the salaries which you mention except the ones in the extreme. Nonetheless with some of the education mentioned, and if the individuals are working in their educated fields the Thai salaries are low. Many a retired westerners collect higher retirement benefits as compared to many salaries mentioned. Therefore jealousy ( an unpleasant trait ) should not even come into it. Because if they want more money they could alway go to work.