Tourist Visa, Border Hopping

[GySi]

Ok,

So, I read through some infromation pages, and noticed that you could only get a maximum of three, one month tourist visas in a row before you have to leave the country for 90 days.

If I have two passports, is possible for me to do the hop 3 times on one passport, and then swap to my other passport for the next three months?

[lopburi3]

There is no restriction on tourist visa entry - there is a restriction on visa exempt entry of 90 days in a six month period. There is no requirement to remain outside of Thailand if you use a visa entry.

Can you swap - be hard at a land crossing as they are going to be looking for exit/entry stamps.

[jstumbo]

terminology:

Visa exempt entry - Entry into Thailand without a consulate issued visa. Just show up at the border with your passport, and they give you a stamp that says you can stay for 30 days. Most western countries are allowed 30 days on each entry for a maximum of 90 days in a 6 month period.

Visa - something you apply for at a consulate or embassy. Many different kinds, but for a tourist visa, you can get a single entry, double entry or triple entry depending on where you apply and what the consulate feels. For most western countries, this allows you to remain for 60 days after entering Thailand, and then before the 60 days is finished, you can go to immigration within Thailand and extend your stay for 7 or 30 days (usually 30 days, but sometimes they will only give 7 days if you do not have a plane ticket). Entries using a consulate/embassy issued visa do not count towards the 90 days in 6 month limit for visa exempt entries.

Visa on Arrival - A visa that is applied for at the airport or border in Thailand. Mostly for developing countries that are not allowed visa exempt entries, usually only good for 15 days. Western countries usually cannot get these, and would instead use a visa exempt entry.

So to answer your question, you are only allowed to remain in Thailand for 90 days in a six month period using visa exempt entries. if you want to be here longer than that, then you need to get a visa from a consulate for the remaining days of the six month period. Best to not use all 90 days of your visa exempt entries before getting a visa, because if you are denied the visa, you would not be able to re-enter Thailand because you would be at the limit of the days on a visa exempt entry.

Edited March 18, 2008 by jstumbo

[bangon04]

terminology:

Visa exempt entry - Entry into Thailand without a consulate issued visa. Just show up at the border with your passport, and they give you a stamp that says you can stay for 30 days. Most western countries are allowed 30 days on each entry for a maximum of 90 days in a 6 month period.

Visa - something you apply for at a consulate or embassy. Many different kinds, but for a tourist visa, you can get a single entry, double entry or triple entry depending on where you apply and what the consulate feels. For most western countries, this allows you to remain for 60 days after entering Thailand, and then before the 60 days is finished, you can go to immigration within Thailand and extend your stay for 7 or 30 days (usually 30 days, but sometimes they will only give 7 days if you do not have a plane ticket). Entries using a consulate/embassy issued visa do not count towards the 90 days in 6 month limit for visa exempt entries.

Visa on Arrival - A visa that is applied for at the airport or border in Thailand. Mostly for developing countries that are not allowed visa exempt entries, usually only good for 15 days. Western countries usually cannot get these, and would instead use a visa exempt entry.

So to answer your question, you are only allowed to remain in Thailand for 90 days in a six month period using visa exempt entries. if you want to be here longer than that, then you need to get a visa from a consulate for the remaining days of the six month period. Best to not use all 90 days of your visa exempt entries before getting a visa, because if you are denied the visa, you would not be able to re-enter Thailand because you would be at the limit of the days on a visa exempt entry.

I have lots of stamps in my passport for 2 or 3 days exempt visa stays. I always travel through Cobra Swamp airport, never the land crossings. I have to endure the sight of fully qualified immigration officers counting (slowly) on their fingers to add up the total days I have stayed in Thailand. Sometimes I feel that they are ready to count their toes too.

The obvious thought occurs that they only need to do this because they do not have the information on their computer screens. They rely on the stamps to tell them about previous stays.

Logically, if you present them with a clean / new passport, they cannot apply the 180 day rule so must start again..... So if you have 2 passports you can rest one and switch to the other. Then you will be able to comply with the 90 days in 180 rule indefinitely....

Can you see a flaw in my logic?

[jstumbo]

There computer is indexed on name, country, and birthdate from what I hear. So if it is just two passports from the same country, they would probably pick it up. If it is from two different countries, maybe not.

[bangon04]

There computer is indexed on name, country, and birthdate from what I hear. So if it is just two passports from the same country, they would probably pick it up. If it is from two different countries, maybe not.

So can the computer tell them the dates and duration of previous stays? Why the embarassing finger counting?

[bangon04]

There computer is indexed on name, country, and birthdate from what I hear. So if it is just two passports from the same country, they would probably pick it up. If it is from two different countries, maybe not.

What do you think happens if you simply renew your passport (because it is full of oversized Thai border stamps) and present them with a clean new passport?

[jstumbo]

I believe it has to have the information in it. Probably would need to have a software change to make the calculations on the number of days, so they just have them count the entries.

When they are looking for a criminal they are able to tell exactly when they came into the country and pull up the picture from immigration, so the info is there.

Why they do not just look in the computer and add up the days instead of searching through your passport, well TIT.

I have heard of people being asked if they got a new passport when they are arriving on a new passport after being here before because the passport numbers do not match.

I have 100 pages in my passport, most of them are full. I did not start using a visa until about 9 months ago. Rarely did they count my entries. They did a few times after they started the rule change, but then they seemed to just stop counting. I guess they got tired of searching for the entries because they are not in order.

[GySi]

Just to clarify,

The passports are from two different countries, not the same.

[Maestro]

What do you think happens if you simply renew your passport (because it is full of oversized Thai border stamps) and present them with a clean new passport?

I would be interested to read your definition of “oversized” in the context of your post.

--

Maestro

[tropo]

Ok,

So, I read through some infromation pages, and noticed that you could only get a maximum of three, one month tourist visas in a row before you have to leave the country for 90 days.

If I have two passports, is possible for me to do the hop 3 times on one passport, and then swap to my other passport for the next three months?

You would have to fly somewhere after 90 days and swap passports in the air.

[Big A]

1. Exit Thailand on passport 1

2. Fly to Singapore on Air Asia and time it so it arrives at the same time as a flight from your home country (UK, USA, Australia etc)

3. Enter SIN on passport 2 and simply say that you've just come from London, LA, Sydney etc (Don't forget, the Thai exit stamp is in passport 1)

4. Depart SIN and enter BKK on passport 2.

Would this work?

Edited March 19, 2008 by Big A

[GySi]

1. Exit Thailand on passport 1

2. Fly to Singapore on Air Asia and time it so it arrives at the same time as a flight from your home country (UK, USA, Australia etc)

3. Enter SIN on passport 2 and simply say that you've just come from London, LA, Sydney etc (Don't forget, the Thai exit stamp is in passport 1)

4. Depart SIN and enter BKK on passport 2.

Would this work?

Possibly, I think its a really good idea, but would you have to time it? You could just wait around for the flight till the home country flight came that is, if one is worried about questions.

Not something someone would want to do every 3 months though.

Edited March 19, 2008 by GySi

[jstumbo]

When you fly by air, they do not care if you change passports. People do this all the time.

[GySi]

When you fly by air, they do not care if you change passports. People do this all the time.

Sweet...if only we could do it by land as easily.

[Big A]

I've just thought of a flaw in my plan. See No 4.

1. In BKK, book and pay for tickets with passport 1 details

2. Exit BKK on passport 1

3. Enter SIN (or wherever) on passport 2

.....OK, sweet, so far....

4. On checking in at SIN (to return to BKK), your ticket will show that you booked under passport 1, yet your SIN entry stamp is in passport 2

5. Return to BKK using passport 2

Any comments?

[Maestro]

1. Remove the passport information from your profile on airasia.com. This information is optional. Sing-up can be completed without it.

2. Even if you do not remove it it will not matter. When you check in for your flight the passport information you have stored in your profile on airasia.com is not looked up.

--

Maestro

[GySi]

Well ive come up with an idea, but im not sure if its doable or not because im not an expert on the fine details of.

1. Arrive in Thailand on a pre-arranged 2 month tourist visa, extend this one month with passport (A)

2. Fly out to another country, and Land on passport (B.)

3. Fly back using passport (B.) and aquire a one month, on the spot tourist visa.

When this month ended, i'd thought of this but not sure if its worth it...just looking at it confuses me.

4. Do 3 one month boarder hops on Passport (B.),

5.Fly out and use passport (A) to get another 2 month tourist visa which can be extedned, for one month. Where now back at stage one, so repeat. The idea was its been 3 months since passport (A) has been used to gain a 2 month toursit visa, so they may have no questions issueing one?

Edited March 19, 2008 by GySi

[jdinasia]

Well ive come up with an idea, but im not sure if its doable or not because im not an expert on the fine details of.

1. Arrive in Thailand on a pre-arranged 2 month tourist visa, extend this one month with passport (A)

2. Fly out to another country, and Land on passport (B.)

3. Fly back using passport (B.) and aquire a one month, on the spot tourist visa.no such thing and you may be refused boarding with no visa and no onward ticket within 30 days

When this month ended, i'd thought of this but not sure if its worth it...just looking at it confuses me.

4. Do 3 one month boarder hops on Passport (B.), 2 not 3 .. see above

5.Fly out and use passport (A) to get another 2 month tourist visa which can be extedned, for one month. Where now back at stage one, so repeat. The idea was its been 3 months since passport (A) has been used to gain a 2 month toursit visa, so they may have no questions issueing one?

comments in red

[GySi]

Well ive come up with an idea, but im not sure if its doable or not because im not an expert on the fine details of.

1. Arrive in Thailand on a pre-arranged 2 month tourist visa, extend this one month with passport (A)

2. Fly out to another country, and Land on passport (B.)

3. Fly back using passport (B.) and aquire a one month, on the spot tourist visa.no such thing and you may be refused boarding with no visa and no onward ticket within 30 days

When this month ended, i'd thought of this but not sure if its worth it...just looking at it confuses me.

4. Do 3 one month boarder hops on Passport (B.), 2 not 3 .. see above

5.Fly out and use passport (A) to get another 2 month tourist visa which can be extedned, for one month. Where now back at stage one, so repeat. The idea was its been 3 months since passport (A) has been used to gain a 2 month toursit visa, so they may have no questions issueing one?

comments in red

Dam.

Thanks for the info, but I thought holders of western passports were issued the visa exempt stamp for 30 days. I remember when I arrived all I had was a return ticket, and my passport, passport got stamped etc etc, no problems.

[Maestro]

Under point 3, arriving without a visa you would get a visa-exempt entry stamp good for 30 days.

Therefore, under point 4 you could do only two 30-day border runs. Your are allow a maximum of 90 visa-exempt days in 6 months, regardless whether your visa-exempt entries are by air, sea or land.

--

Maestro

[GySi]

Under point 3, arriving without a visa you would get a visa-exempt entry stamp good for 30 days.

Therefore, under point 4 you could do only two 30-day border runs. Your are allow a maximum of 90 visa-exempt days in 6 months, regardless whether your visa-exempt entries are by air, sea or land.

--

Maestro

Thanks for that.

Sorry for the wrong use of terminology , so changing the 3 hops to 2...the plan would work?

Seems like I've made more trouble than other more effecient methods.

[Maestro]

On step 5 you will have to stay outside Thailand longer than just two days. 3x90 visa-exempt stays are less than six months, considering also that with each stay both the day of arrival and day of departure are counted.

Generally, it is advisable to do only 2x30 visa-exempt stays in 6 months between tourist-visa entries. This will then always leave you a reserve of a visa-exempt entry for possible emergencies.

If you really want to fine-tune it, best use an Excel spreadsheet to calculate the days. To calculate the number of days in Thailand use the formula [departure date]-[arrival date]-1

--

Maestro

[Maestro]

The attached calculation shows how you could not do a new visa-exempt entry after 3x90 visa exempt stay plus 2x30 tourist-visa stay plus extensions.

--

Maestro

calculation_days.pdf

[libya 115]

Is it worth it? I mean trying to swindle the system of 90 days of '30 day' entry stamps per 180 days?

Why not get a proper tourist visa (good for two months, then one month extension)?

Or a non-'O' from Hull good for 12 months +3 months if you time it right.

Personally, I think if you start messing around with Thai immigration; with the old 2nd passport malarkey, they might well come down heavy, because they 'lose face' and probably think a '2nd passport' is dodgy (although legitimate for British with a good reason and a letter from a company).

Just my thoughts.......TIT is it worth the risks?

Edited March 19, 2008 by libya 115

[astral]

There computer is indexed on name, country, and birthdate from what I hear. So if it is just two passports from the same country, they would probably pick it up. If it is from two different countries, maybe not.

So can the computer tell them the dates and duration of previous stays? Why the embarassing finger counting?

Changing between two passports can only be done when flying, as there is no check for the previous exit stamp.

IME the computers are not capable of such indexing,

well nigh impossible if you have a common name like John Smith.

I have never had a problem using my two passports.

PS John Smith is not my name, just the most common name in the UK.

[hotgeekus]

I just did what all of you are discussing.....

Flew out on one passport at the end of a Tourist Visa. Changed passports when landing in Macau. Macau immigration official did some serious head scratching and asked where the exit stamp from Bangkok was (went though every passport page in second passport). He knew we came from Bangkok as our immigration paperwork said Bangkok and the flight number. Once second passport was shown, the guy let a sigh of relief and then just needed to tell him to stamp entry into the second passport. That was it, no more questions, from tourist visa to entry back into LOS.

For the record, I would never cheat, lie (etc) the immigration of any country, and since it is easy to stay in Thailand indifinetely with a tourist visa (on

#7 now), might as well just learn to play by the rules.

[hotgeekus]

oh ya, consulate in HK said they can only put the tourist visa in the passport where the entry stamp into Hong Kong was.... (he asked if we were hk citizen, so maybe if you are hk citizen you could have chosen passport, but not sure)

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Is it worth it? I mean trying to swindle the system of 90 days of '30 day' entry stamps per 180 days?

Why not get a proper tourist visa (good for two months, then one month extension)?

Or a non-'O' from Hull good for 12 months +3 months if you time it right.

Personally, I think if you start messing around with Thai immigration; with the old 2nd passport malarkey, they might well come down heavy, because they 'lose face' and probably think a '2nd passport' is dodgy (although legitimate for British with a good reason and a letter from a company).

Just my thoughts.......TIT is it worth the risks?

I'm with you Libya. It a large effort to avoid getting a visa. Not worth it IMHO.

[david96]

Take the case of a dual citizen with an Australian and a British passport. Normally lives in Australia.

Leaves Australia on the Australian passport and enters Thailand on the Australian passport.

After 3 x 30 day entry stamps leave Thailand on the Australian passport and enter the UK on the British passport, leave GB on the British passport and enter Thailand on the British passport. Do 3 visa runs then switch back to the Australian passport by going back this time to Australia.

You are always entering and departing a country on the same passport.